Dave
Dave

April 21st, 2011, 1:02 pm #11

The Declaration and Address PERVERTED by the musical bandits.

http://www.piney.com/RMDeclarAddress.html#order
WHAT JESUS COMMANDED TO BE TAUGHT AND OBSERVED

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


First. ALL authority belongs to Jesus Whom God made to be both Lord and Christ and Word and Grace.
Second. The command is to GO and make disciples
Third. The ONLY authority is to teach what Christ taught in the Prophets and Jesus made more certain and the Apostles left for our "memory."
Fourth. The EFFECT of Jesus Christ in Spirit being WITH them is based on the contract: YOU teach what I have commanded you to teach.
Fifth. There is no statute of limitations until Jesus returns and returns the Throne and authority to God.
Sixth. A Church of Christ is built upon (educated by) the Prophets and Apostles who were eye-- and ear-- witnesses.
Seventh. Peter said that COMBO was not subject to private interpretation or further expounding: that would mock the testimony that the Father left of His Son.

http://www.piney.com/2.Peter.1.Prophecy ... ation.html

Eighth. Anyone who did not TEACH that which is written is marked as a FALSE TEACHER following the pattern of the FALSE PROPHETS.

http://www.piney.com/2.Peter.2.Instrume ... ption.html

Peter SPECIFICIALLY warned about MUSICAL CORRUPTION.

The FALSE TEACHERS do not honor the Father's endorsement of the testimony (prophets and apostles) when they IGNORE direct commands and OUTLAWING of all of the hypocritic arts and artists when they TWIST the Campbell's to let THEM impose that which Christ and the Campbells FORBID. That is anyting you IMPOSE to deliberately sow discord so you can get your too-close--for--comfort companions a HOLY PLACE to stand and claim to be speaking for God.

2. That although the Church of Christ upon earth must necessarily exist in particular and distinct societies, locally separate one from another, yet there ought to be no schisms, no uncharitable divisions among them. They ought to receive each other as Christ Jesus hath also received them, to the glory of God.

And for this purpose they ought all to walk by the same rule, to mind and speak the same thing; and to be perfectly joined together in the same mind, and in the same judgment.


The ANTI-Biblical and therefore ANTI-Christian churches mock this as impossible. However, Paul repeated Christ's command for the church in the wilderness. SELF-pleasure OUTLAWS all of the music and performing artists:

Romans 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
Romans 15:2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification [EDUCATION]
Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning,
that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Romans 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Any DISCIPLE can understand this without being a detested "rationalists" in the words of John Mark Hicks who claims that the Campbells did NOT get their "hermeneutics" from the bible.

3. That in order to this, nothing ought to be inculcated upon Christians as articles of faith;
nor required of them as terms of communion,
but what is expressly taught and enjoined upon them in the word of God.
Nor ought anything to be admitted, as of Divine obligation, in their Church constitution and managements, (Locke LT)


http://www.piney.com/LockeTol.html#But

but what is expressly enjoined [epitak-tos injunctions, orders] by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ and his apostles upon the New Testament Church; either in express terms or by approved precedent.

The ANTIs claim that YOU cannot forbid me from adding anything which is not EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN. The instrumental idolaters REST on the CURSE of the Sacrificial system which THEY think was God's ORIGINAL command for "congregational singing with instrumental accompaniment."

4. That although the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are inseparably connected, making together but one perfect and entire revelation of the Divine will, for the edification and salvation of the Church, and therefore in that respect can not be separated;

yet as to what directly and properly belongs to their immediate object, the New Testament is as for the worship, discipline, and government of the New Testament Church, and as perfect a rule for the particular duties of its members,

as the Old Testament was for the worship, discipline, and government of the Old Testament Church, and the particular duties of its members. (Declaration And Address)




Got your attention? Of course, the original article is posted below. You see, politics and religion have something in common -- the liberals and the progressives are out there to subvert, pervert, convert, attack, infiltrate, divide and seek "whom [they] may devour."

Dave is so elated and so quick to sing "Hallelujah!!! Praise the Lord" for that one (Fred Whaley's) congregation that is on its way to a full alignment with either the Community Church or the Christian Church.

As of this writing, Dave has been too cowardly to ask his denominational friends what they know about the church of Christ and instrumental music in the assembly. These friends KNOW, but Dave refuses to acknowledge (but disagrees with his friends) the truth and fact that churches of Christ reject the mechanical operation of musical devices in their assemblies, PERIOD!!! [OK, disregard the punctuation error.]

Oops, I forgot something -- Dave sings "Hallelujah" because one more congregation (Fred's) has been added to the list of churches that have been transformed into "Community Churches" [the denomination] or affiliated with the Christian Church/Disciples of Christ.

And where's that list of churches MISLED by misleading and confused leaders (shepherds) of their respective congregations? In case you didn't know, there are approximately 40,000 congregations of the church of Christ worldwide. Let's do some math: let's say there are 20 DISSIDENT congregations; divide 39980 by 40000; that's 99.95% -- virtually a hundred percent (100%) since dissident congregations [at no fault of the members but of the mis-leaders] have other affiliations.

Wait, I think I have found the list:
  • The Richland Hills Church of Christ, North Richland Hills, TX, Rick Atchley, minister
    </li>
  • The Quail Springs Church of Christ, Oklahoma City, OK., Mark Henderson, minister.
    </li>
  • Norway Ave. Church of Christ, Huntington, WV, Jeff Garrett, minister.
    </li>
  • The Faithcross Church of Christ, (formerly Tomball Church of Christ) Tomball, TX.
    </li>
  • Oak Hills Church (of Christ), San Antonio, TX, Max Lucado, minister.
    </li>
  • The Farmers Branch Church of Christ, Dallas, TX, Chris Seidman, minister
    </li>
  • The Northwest Church of Christ, Seattle, WA, Milton Jones, minister.
    </li>
  • The Central Church of Christ Cocoa, FL. Don Adkins, minister
    </li>
  • Metro Church of Christ, Orlando, FL, Don Holland, minister
    </li>
  • Bridgeway Church (of Christ) Flowermound, TX, Art, McNeese, minister
    </li>
  • The First Colony Church of Christ, Sugarland, TX, Ronnie Norman, minister
    </li>
  • _____________________________________________________
    </li>
  • _____________________________________________________
    </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Fred, you boldly proclaim your stance on instrumental music, would you be bold enough to update the list by simply adding your congregation's name above? Don't be shy, ashamed or afraid.

Dave, you espouse that you have "LOVE," but that not anyone of us does. You also espouse your LOVE for those inanimate, lifeless musical devices being played in the assembly of living saints. So, would you boldly add your church to the list? Isn't that the one in Clemson, SC? Or, is it only work-in-progress at this stage?

You MAY able to convince a few folks that an addition of one more church or congregation to the list makes the church, the body of Christ, adherent to such form of musical idolatry. Try it.

Oh, back to the troublemakers in the church and in the country of law-abiding citizens:[/color]
THREE OBAMA OFFICIALS IMPLICATED IN SEDITIOUS PLOT
TO DISMANTLE U.S. CONSTITUTION
URGENT UPDATE: NEW EVIDENCE COMES OUT OF OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS' INVOLVEMENT IN PLAN TO EFFECTUALLY REWRITE THE U.S. CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS. SOROS-FUNDED EFFORT TO FORCE AMERICA INTO ACCEPTING A MARXIST MANIFESTO BY 2012 UNDERWAY IN OBAMA FACTION, LED BY KEY EXECUTIVE BRANCH APPOINTEES.
DEMAND CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS TO STOP
THE DISMANTLING OF AMERICA<b>
</b>
Just days after Marxist Free Market Saboteur Steve Lerners plans for mass May Day national economic disruptions have become known via secretly caught exposure of a taped meeting with other extremists, now new evidence implicates the Obama White House in sedition. Regulatory Czar Cass Sunstein; his wife Samantha Power, Senior Director of the National Security Council; and Department of Justice Attorney General Eric Holder are key players in a related plot to dismantle and destroy America's Constitutional republic.

In April 2005, Sunstein opened a conference at Yale Law School sponsored by George Soros Open Society Institute entitled, "The Constitution in 2020. The event was designed as a forum to craft the agenda and assign the tasks for changing the nature and interpretation of the Constitution into a fully progressive Marxist Manifesto by the year 2020. Sunstein was a natural fit for the conference, as his 2004 book, The Second Bill of Rights: FDR'S Unfinished Revolution and Why We Need It More than Ever proposed a radical new document to replace Americas traditional Bill of Rights.

The conference was co-sponsored by the American Constitution Society, another hard Left Marxist organization which seeks to rewrite the Constitution. Attorney General Eric Holder not only previously served on the ACS Board of Directors, but is keynote speaker for their 2011 Convention.

The Obama faction onslaught against America is coming from all sides. A union thug with White House connections plots to crash the American economy while high ranking Obama officials seek to subvert the Constitution and Bill of Rights. We MUST compel Congress to open investigations and HALT the Obama wrecking crew that is daily dismantling America!

Recent audio has been released which outlines a very real plan to collapse the American economy - including crashing the stock market and disrupting the banking system - in an effort to finally and irrevocably bring about the fundamental change, radical change, Obama promised. The sinister plan is set to take place the first week of May... and evidence suggests the plan may go all the way to the White House.
Please read the above article in its entirety:
Here is all of it verbatim TOGETHER for you Donnie...
"No one here will admonish anyone for worshiping God in what ever manner they believe to be correct. However, when someone subverts an existing Church by secrecy and deceit against the principles of its founders and members...
...WE HAVE A PROBLEM!"

The fact remains that you men have lied. You said that there would be no admonishment. When you ADMONISH the very elders that you serve under, people will know quickly of your dishonesty and treachery here. Whether you have A PROBLEM with people you accuse of subverting other churches is NOT the issue. The issue is how you have dealt with it. You said that you would not admonish and YOU HAVE.

Donnie, the commandment to sing is not affected with or without musical instruments. Try as hard as you may but playing an instrument does not prohibit the singing, nor does it ADD to the commandment. It only AIDS the singing. Nothing more.

When you want to chide me for calling down Ken for blaspheming, how about taking a look at the only post for Ken in this thread. He starts with "Christ teaches HIS preferences: to think that you have a preference is called blasphemy."

That is what happens to people like you when God closes their ears and blinds their eyes. You don't see or listen and don't really care if people know that you don't see or hear either. I know this because you have been taught a better way.....not by me, but by Christ. You simply have chosen not to follow it. You want it your way instead of God's Way. For a season, you can eat drink and be merry, but then there will be a day where you have to pay your dues.
Quote
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

April 24th, 2011, 7:00 am #12

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

Whenever you are pinned down in a religious discussion, you resort to accusing or labeling anyone who disagrees with you and who disproves your viewpoints as the one having "lied" or is "without love." If you were in a public religious debate, that would be tantamount to trying to convince the public that you are winning the debate in that your opponent is "without love" or that you are the one "with love."

You also have a problem with misquoting.

Your initial quote regarding ConcernedMembers was as follows:
[/color]
No one here will admonish anyone for worshipping God in what ever manner they believe to be correct.

Then you opined:<blockquote>"Wow, I can't believe that you guys would leave that in print. How many times have you cut people down on this site for disagreeing with you guys? Countless times. NO LOVE!"
</blockquote>[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave, there is nothing wrong with ConcernedMembers' statement regarding any church's liberty to worship as it wishes. How can any website possibly issue that directive to churches? CM is a website -- not "The Vatican" nor "The Watchtower."

Evidently, as I have already pointed out, and you finally noticed but still did not comprehend, there was more to your initial, partially-quoted statement. Again, here's the quote in its entirety:[/color]
"No one here will admonish anyone for worshipping God in what ever manner they believe to be correct. However, when someone subverts an existing Church by secrecy and deceit against the principles of its founders and members<u>...

</u>
...WE HAVE A PROBLEM!
The below listings are links to various church member sites where the members discuss what's happening at their church, and learn about the problems causing division and take-overs.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]You see, Dave, the following word "however" is significant. The emphasis is that it is a PROBLEM[/color] in the church or in the fellowship WHEN someone (e.g., a "CHANGE AGENT") SUBVERTS an EXISTING church by secrecy and deceit AGAINST the principles of its founders and members."

Not only that, Dave, but also that 3 links were provided to which the reader is directed to a discussion of "the problems causing division and takeovers" in the church.

The owners of this website had the foresight to warn congregations in the brotherhood and individual leaders and members of the church of the impending dangers, problems and issues that the church would be facing, if they weren't already in existence.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

April 24th, 2011, 7:06 am #13

Here is all of it verbatim TOGETHER for you Donnie...
"No one here will admonish anyone for worshiping God in what ever manner they believe to be correct. However, when someone subverts an existing Church by secrecy and deceit against the principles of its founders and members...
...WE HAVE A PROBLEM!"

The fact remains that you men have lied. You said that there would be no admonishment. When you ADMONISH the very elders that you serve under, people will know quickly of your dishonesty and treachery here. Whether you have A PROBLEM with people you accuse of subverting other churches is NOT the issue. The issue is how you have dealt with it. You said that you would not admonish and YOU HAVE.

Donnie, the commandment to sing is not affected with or without musical instruments. Try as hard as you may but playing an instrument does not prohibit the singing, nor does it ADD to the commandment. It only AIDS the singing. Nothing more.

When you want to chide me for calling down Ken for blaspheming, how about taking a look at the only post for Ken in this thread. He starts with "Christ teaches HIS preferences: to think that you have a preference is called blasphemy."

That is what happens to people like you when God closes their ears and blinds their eyes. You don't see or listen and don't really care if people know that you don't see or hear either. I know this because you have been taught a better way.....not by me, but by Christ. You simply have chosen not to follow it. You want it your way instead of God's Way. For a season, you can eat drink and be merry, but then there will be a day where you have to pay your dues.
Dave, you said:
The fact remains that you men have lied. You said that there would be no admonishment. When you ADMONISH the very elders that you serve under, people will know quickly of your dishonesty and treachery here. Whether you have A PROBLEM with people you accuse of subverting other churches is NOT the issue. The issue is how you have dealt with it. You said that you would not admonish and YOU HAVE.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

Every time you bring up the elders and the upheaval that occurred in the Madison congregation, I'm having to review the sequence of events. So, here it is briefly ... again [or read a series of threads, "What Happened at Madison This Week"]:[/color]
  • There was a "VISION 2000" in the nineties to expand the church facilities (costing millions of dollars) and grow the church membership numerically (since the church wasn't "mega" enough). [As of this writing, the "debt" has just been "fully paid." Finally.]
    </li>
  • There was a group of "church leaders" who were commissioned to visit and learn from the successes of "gospel preaching" at the Saddleback Community Church in CA.
    </li>
  • Preparations and instructions for the "Homebuilders Class," the "Holy Entertainment" practices (clapping, rhythmic handclapping, raising hands, praise teams) were under way.
    </li>
  • The introduction of the overpowering "Praise Team" [of course, with their loud hand-held microphones] in the second assembly [then, both first and second assemblies were "traditional"] was the straw that broke the camel's back.
    </li>
  • Meanwhile there was clearly a division in the eldership -- several of the elders resigned or left in the midst of the upheaval.
    </li>
  • Meanwhile, hundreds of the members (half of the congregation) were leaving to seek fellowship somewhere else.
    </li>
  • The final directive from the leadership: "[If you don't like it], get over it; we must move on."
    </li>
  • The final "division" [with "unity in diversity" as the qualifier] was official, that assemblies will be: (1) traditional and (2) contemporary
    </li>
  • When ConcernedMembers was born, the prevailing "winds of change" to "grow the church" according to Rick Warren's "The Purpose Driven Church" manual had already damaged the church. The best thing this website could do would be to warn other congregations and let lessons be learned from this unfortunate experience.</li>
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

April 24th, 2011, 7:21 am #14

Here is all of it verbatim TOGETHER for you Donnie...
"No one here will admonish anyone for worshiping God in what ever manner they believe to be correct. However, when someone subverts an existing Church by secrecy and deceit against the principles of its founders and members...
...WE HAVE A PROBLEM!"

The fact remains that you men have lied. You said that there would be no admonishment. When you ADMONISH the very elders that you serve under, people will know quickly of your dishonesty and treachery here. Whether you have A PROBLEM with people you accuse of subverting other churches is NOT the issue. The issue is how you have dealt with it. You said that you would not admonish and YOU HAVE.

Donnie, the commandment to sing is not affected with or without musical instruments. Try as hard as you may but playing an instrument does not prohibit the singing, nor does it ADD to the commandment. It only AIDS the singing. Nothing more.

When you want to chide me for calling down Ken for blaspheming, how about taking a look at the only post for Ken in this thread. He starts with "Christ teaches HIS preferences: to think that you have a preference is called blasphemy."

That is what happens to people like you when God closes their ears and blinds their eyes. You don't see or listen and don't really care if people know that you don't see or hear either. I know this because you have been taught a better way.....not by me, but by Christ. You simply have chosen not to follow it. You want it your way instead of God's Way. For a season, you can eat drink and be merry, but then there will be a day where you have to pay your dues.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave, no!!! People like me and churches of Christ [40,000-congregation strong worldwide including your own home church in SC] are not those whose ears are closed and whose eyes are blinded by God.

Did you ever think carefully and realize fully what you just accused me and the fellowship of?

The primary command in Colossians and Ephesians is NOT even singing, much less PLAYING musical instruments!!!

The primary command in the often-quoted passages is to: "LET THE WORD OF CHRIST DWELL IN YOU RICHLY in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another...in songs." It is qualified by "SPEAKING TO YOURSELVES in ... songs."

In the gathering of saints, besides commemmorating the Lord's sacrifice and death on the cross, teaching and admonishing one another or being indwelt by the word of Christ" is also the other command.

Speaking or singing is simply a medium of conveyance of the word of Christ. Certainly, NOT musical devices!!!!!!

David was not in the assembly of God's people in Psalm 150.

You can use David's personal habits and attributes and preferences all you want as your guide to "worship" God in the ASSEMBLY [i.e., PUBLIC]. But it doesn't change the truth and fact that God NEVER commanded his saints and followers to assemble and play their instruments of music. You will not find such directive in either the Old Testament or the New Testament.

If you were to follow David's personal preferences, let me remind you to obey David's directives based on his personal experience:
[/color]
  • ... when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all cities of Israel, singing and dancing ... with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of music. (I Sam. 18:6)

    </li>
  • Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp. (Psalm 149:3)

    </li>
  • Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs. (Psalm 150:4)

    </li>
  • And it came to pass, as the ark of the covenant of the LORD came to the city of David, that Michal the daughter of Saul looking out at a window saw king David dancing and playing: and she despised him in her heart. (I Chron. 15:29)

    </li>
  • Is not this David, of whom they sang one to another in dances, saying, Saul slew his thousands, and David his ten thousands? (I Sam. 29:5)

    </li>
  • And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod. (II Sam. 6:14)

    </li>
  • So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet. (II Sam. 6:15)

    </li>
  • David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD. (II Sam. 6:17)

    </li>
  • How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself! (II Sam. 6:20)

    </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Or, are David's activities that cumbersome and inconvenient except for PLAYING musical instruments?[/color]
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

April 24th, 2011, 4:57 pm #15

Acts 7:42 Then God turned,
and gave them up to worship the host of heaven;
as it is written in the book of the prophets,
O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts
and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?

Question: what is the names of the gods worshipped by the Jews?
Quote
Like
Share

Dave
Dave

April 24th, 2011, 7:47 pm #16

The Declaration and Address PERVERTED by the musical bandits.

http://www.piney.com/RMDeclarAddress.html#order
WHAT JESUS COMMANDED TO BE TAUGHT AND OBSERVED

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


First. ALL authority belongs to Jesus Whom God made to be both Lord and Christ and Word and Grace.
Second. The command is to GO and make disciples
Third. The ONLY authority is to teach what Christ taught in the Prophets and Jesus made more certain and the Apostles left for our "memory."
Fourth. The EFFECT of Jesus Christ in Spirit being WITH them is based on the contract: YOU teach what I have commanded you to teach.
Fifth. There is no statute of limitations until Jesus returns and returns the Throne and authority to God.
Sixth. A Church of Christ is built upon (educated by) the Prophets and Apostles who were eye-- and ear-- witnesses.
Seventh. Peter said that COMBO was not subject to private interpretation or further expounding: that would mock the testimony that the Father left of His Son.

http://www.piney.com/2.Peter.1.Prophecy ... ation.html

Eighth. Anyone who did not TEACH that which is written is marked as a FALSE TEACHER following the pattern of the FALSE PROPHETS.

http://www.piney.com/2.Peter.2.Instrume ... ption.html

Peter SPECIFICIALLY warned about MUSICAL CORRUPTION.

The FALSE TEACHERS do not honor the Father's endorsement of the testimony (prophets and apostles) when they IGNORE direct commands and OUTLAWING of all of the hypocritic arts and artists when they TWIST the Campbell's to let THEM impose that which Christ and the Campbells FORBID. That is anyting you IMPOSE to deliberately sow discord so you can get your too-close--for--comfort companions a HOLY PLACE to stand and claim to be speaking for God.

2. That although the Church of Christ upon earth must necessarily exist in particular and distinct societies, locally separate one from another, yet there ought to be no schisms, no uncharitable divisions among them. They ought to receive each other as Christ Jesus hath also received them, to the glory of God.

And for this purpose they ought all to walk by the same rule, to mind and speak the same thing; and to be perfectly joined together in the same mind, and in the same judgment.


The ANTI-Biblical and therefore ANTI-Christian churches mock this as impossible. However, Paul repeated Christ's command for the church in the wilderness. SELF-pleasure OUTLAWS all of the music and performing artists:

Romans 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
Romans 15:2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification [EDUCATION]
Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning,
that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Romans 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Any DISCIPLE can understand this without being a detested "rationalists" in the words of John Mark Hicks who claims that the Campbells did NOT get their "hermeneutics" from the bible.

3. That in order to this, nothing ought to be inculcated upon Christians as articles of faith;
nor required of them as terms of communion,
but what is expressly taught and enjoined upon them in the word of God.
Nor ought anything to be admitted, as of Divine obligation, in their Church constitution and managements, (Locke LT)


http://www.piney.com/LockeTol.html#But

but what is expressly enjoined [epitak-tos injunctions, orders] by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ and his apostles upon the New Testament Church; either in express terms or by approved precedent.

The ANTIs claim that YOU cannot forbid me from adding anything which is not EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN. The instrumental idolaters REST on the CURSE of the Sacrificial system which THEY think was God's ORIGINAL command for "congregational singing with instrumental accompaniment."

4. That although the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are inseparably connected, making together but one perfect and entire revelation of the Divine will, for the edification and salvation of the Church, and therefore in that respect can not be separated;

yet as to what directly and properly belongs to their immediate object, the New Testament is as for the worship, discipline, and government of the New Testament Church, and as perfect a rule for the particular duties of its members,

as the Old Testament was for the worship, discipline, and government of the Old Testament Church, and the particular duties of its members. (Declaration And Address)




Got your attention? Of course, the original article is posted below. You see, politics and religion have something in common -- the liberals and the progressives are out there to subvert, pervert, convert, attack, infiltrate, divide and seek "whom [they] may devour."

Dave is so elated and so quick to sing "Hallelujah!!! Praise the Lord" for that one (Fred Whaley's) congregation that is on its way to a full alignment with either the Community Church or the Christian Church.

As of this writing, Dave has been too cowardly to ask his denominational friends what they know about the church of Christ and instrumental music in the assembly. These friends KNOW, but Dave refuses to acknowledge (but disagrees with his friends) the truth and fact that churches of Christ reject the mechanical operation of musical devices in their assemblies, PERIOD!!! [OK, disregard the punctuation error.]

Oops, I forgot something -- Dave sings "Hallelujah" because one more congregation (Fred's) has been added to the list of churches that have been transformed into "Community Churches" [the denomination] or affiliated with the Christian Church/Disciples of Christ.

And where's that list of churches MISLED by misleading and confused leaders (shepherds) of their respective congregations? In case you didn't know, there are approximately 40,000 congregations of the church of Christ worldwide. Let's do some math: let's say there are 20 DISSIDENT congregations; divide 39980 by 40000; that's 99.95% -- virtually a hundred percent (100%) since dissident congregations [at no fault of the members but of the mis-leaders] have other affiliations.

Wait, I think I have found the list:
  • The Richland Hills Church of Christ, North Richland Hills, TX, Rick Atchley, minister
    </li>
  • The Quail Springs Church of Christ, Oklahoma City, OK., Mark Henderson, minister.
    </li>
  • Norway Ave. Church of Christ, Huntington, WV, Jeff Garrett, minister.
    </li>
  • The Faithcross Church of Christ, (formerly Tomball Church of Christ) Tomball, TX.
    </li>
  • Oak Hills Church (of Christ), San Antonio, TX, Max Lucado, minister.
    </li>
  • The Farmers Branch Church of Christ, Dallas, TX, Chris Seidman, minister
    </li>
  • The Northwest Church of Christ, Seattle, WA, Milton Jones, minister.
    </li>
  • The Central Church of Christ Cocoa, FL. Don Adkins, minister
    </li>
  • Metro Church of Christ, Orlando, FL, Don Holland, minister
    </li>
  • Bridgeway Church (of Christ) Flowermound, TX, Art, McNeese, minister
    </li>
  • The First Colony Church of Christ, Sugarland, TX, Ronnie Norman, minister
    </li>
  • _____________________________________________________
    </li>
  • _____________________________________________________
    </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Fred, you boldly proclaim your stance on instrumental music, would you be bold enough to update the list by simply adding your congregation's name above? Don't be shy, ashamed or afraid.

Dave, you espouse that you have "LOVE," but that not anyone of us does. You also espouse your LOVE for those inanimate, lifeless musical devices being played in the assembly of living saints. So, would you boldly add your church to the list? Isn't that the one in Clemson, SC? Or, is it only work-in-progress at this stage?

You MAY able to convince a few folks that an addition of one more church or congregation to the list makes the church, the body of Christ, adherent to such form of musical idolatry. Try it.

Oh, back to the troublemakers in the church and in the country of law-abiding citizens:[/color]
THREE OBAMA OFFICIALS IMPLICATED IN SEDITIOUS PLOT
TO DISMANTLE U.S. CONSTITUTION
URGENT UPDATE: NEW EVIDENCE COMES OUT OF OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS' INVOLVEMENT IN PLAN TO EFFECTUALLY REWRITE THE U.S. CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS. SOROS-FUNDED EFFORT TO FORCE AMERICA INTO ACCEPTING A MARXIST MANIFESTO BY 2012 UNDERWAY IN OBAMA FACTION, LED BY KEY EXECUTIVE BRANCH APPOINTEES.
DEMAND CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS TO STOP
THE DISMANTLING OF AMERICA<b>
</b>
Just days after Marxist Free Market Saboteur Steve Lerners plans for mass May Day national economic disruptions have become known via secretly caught exposure of a taped meeting with other extremists, now new evidence implicates the Obama White House in sedition. Regulatory Czar Cass Sunstein; his wife Samantha Power, Senior Director of the National Security Council; and Department of Justice Attorney General Eric Holder are key players in a related plot to dismantle and destroy America's Constitutional republic.

In April 2005, Sunstein opened a conference at Yale Law School sponsored by George Soros Open Society Institute entitled, "The Constitution in 2020. The event was designed as a forum to craft the agenda and assign the tasks for changing the nature and interpretation of the Constitution into a fully progressive Marxist Manifesto by the year 2020. Sunstein was a natural fit for the conference, as his 2004 book, The Second Bill of Rights: FDR'S Unfinished Revolution and Why We Need It More than Ever proposed a radical new document to replace Americas traditional Bill of Rights.

The conference was co-sponsored by the American Constitution Society, another hard Left Marxist organization which seeks to rewrite the Constitution. Attorney General Eric Holder not only previously served on the ACS Board of Directors, but is keynote speaker for their 2011 Convention.

The Obama faction onslaught against America is coming from all sides. A union thug with White House connections plots to crash the American economy while high ranking Obama officials seek to subvert the Constitution and Bill of Rights. We MUST compel Congress to open investigations and HALT the Obama wrecking crew that is daily dismantling America!

Recent audio has been released which outlines a very real plan to collapse the American economy - including crashing the stock market and disrupting the banking system - in an effort to finally and irrevocably bring about the fundamental change, radical change, Obama promised. The sinister plan is set to take place the first week of May... and evidence suggests the plan may go all the way to the White House.
Please read the above article in its entirety:
Donnie, you asked me "Did you ever think carefully and realize fully what you just accused me and the fellowship of?"

Nice wording there. I like you you dishonestly TRIED to group the evil men here (including you) with the FELLOWSHIP?
You have betrayed the fellowship. You can claim a part of it all day long, but to publicly call out your elders in this wicked way will never make you a part of the fellowship....that is until you make a proper public confession.

Also you said "David was not in the assembly of God's people in Psalm 150."
Donnie, what do you consider a public assembly?
Does it consist of 300 people worshiping together, with suits and ties, and all the babies quietly tucked away in the nursery, so you can catch a quick nap during the sermon?
Matthew 18
20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.



Quote
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

April 24th, 2011, 8:11 pm #17

Psalm 150 is NOT: it is Halal 150 meaning to make yourself vile when you go into war. David praised God in the firmament. Now, if you have been abandoned to worship the Starry Host that is where you try to ASCEND.

Christ defines the synagogue or Church of Christ and OUTLAWS loud instrumental rejoicing: when you attend synagogue you attend A School of the Word. You don't make instrumental noise when you are teaching "that which is written for our learning."

If you cannot name the gods Isreal worshipped as worship of the starry host, maybe you can tell us "what does a DISCIPLE of Christ do when He assembles?"

The unique worship Word for what Paul called "synagogue" is to give heed to the Word of Christ.
Quote
Like
Share

Roncar
Roncar

April 24th, 2011, 9:23 pm #18

Sorry Ken, Psalm 150 was in the Bible yesterday and today. I am sure it will there tomorrow also. Ken would very much like to discredit Psalm 150 because he knows it shows God's approval of instrumental music. Sorry Ken, God showed his approval and He never changed from that.

Ken, you know Paul was once a sinner also. That is true for all of us. God used David in His own way to give us His Word. Ken, who are you to question God and His Word?

Perhaps Ken is full of Halal?

Quote
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

April 24th, 2011, 11:34 pm #19

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Roncar,

In Psalm 150, "praise him with the ... DANCE" is listed. Therefore, such logic of yours implies God's approval of the dance and "never changed from that." Hmmm. OK, OK, OK. How many feel so subjected to using musical instruments, but not to dancing, "in worship"? Do you do one or the other, but not both? Why? Why not?

In verse 6, it says: "Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD." That includes everything else besides human beings. Could this be how the Roman Catholic Church derived the doctrine of bringing favorite pets to a gathering for the blessing of the pets?

Certainly, the entire Bible is a completely inspired God's Word, but we are to rightly divide the word of truth as the Bible is comprised of the books of law; history; books of songs and poetry (Psalm, Job, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon belong here); history; prophecy. Murder, theft, rebellion, idolatry and many other acts of mankind (both good and evil) are recorded in the Book.

No true disciple of Christ ever discredits Psalm 150. The discrediting occurs when one fully accepts the "acts of David," king of Israel and a very skilled musician, EXCEPT and UNTIL the following "worshipful activities" are encountered [already mentioned earlier]:[/color]
  • David danced before the Lord [try this at home first before doing it in the assembly]. (II Sam. 6:14)

    </li>
  • When he danced before the Lord, he was "girded with a linen ephod." (II Sam. 6:14)

    </li>
  • So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet. (II Sam. 6:15)

    </li>
  • David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD. (II Sam. 6:17)

    </li>
  • How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself! (II Sam. 6:20)

    [A nudist would not have a problem/an issue with this!!! Would this be considered "an abuse of power" on the part of David as king of Israel and as a man of God at the same time?</li>
This means that: "COME ONE, COME ALL"; "OBEY ONE, OBEY ALL [of David's commands]."
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

April 25th, 2011, 12:42 am #20

Donnie, you asked me "Did you ever think carefully and realize fully what you just accused me and the fellowship of?"

Nice wording there. I like you you dishonestly TRIED to group the evil men here (including you) with the FELLOWSHIP?
You have betrayed the fellowship. You can claim a part of it all day long, but to publicly call out your elders in this wicked way will never make you a part of the fellowship....that is until you make a proper public confession.

Also you said "David was not in the assembly of God's people in Psalm 150."
Donnie, what do you consider a public assembly?
Does it consist of 300 people worshiping together, with suits and ties, and all the babies quietly tucked away in the nursery, so you can catch a quick nap during the sermon?
Matthew 18
20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.


[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

Let's make a very simple deduction here for your benefit:

[/color]<ol>[*]The men of CM [including Donnie] are "the evil men here" because they do not support Dave's opinion that God commanded, approved of and is pleased with the use of musical objects in the assembly or gathering of saints. This is according to Dave's judgment of these "evil men."

</li>[*]The fellowship of churches of Christ (40,000-congregations strong worldwide) is in favor of the teachings of Christ and His apostles and disagrees with Dave and his alignment with the change agents regarding the use of musical devices in the assembly.

</li>[*]Therefore, since the brotherhood is with whom the men of CM are aligned and the men of CM are evil, the fellowship is evil--according to Dave.
</li>[/list][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Got it this time, Dave? Just trying to help you out with your logic.

So, how do you define an "assembly"? I agree with the passage you quoted. But you would have to prove to me that the setting or environment in Psalm 150 was similar to that of 2 or 3 or 100 gathered in Clemson, SC?

I'll admit that you may have a point, though. I'm even willing to help you with the scenario.

-- David and the ark of the covenant.
-- David offered burnt offerings.
-- David offered peace offerings.
-- In attendance was Michal, Saul's daughter.
-- Michal saw David LEAP and dance before the Lord.
-- In attendance were the servants and their handmaids.
-- In attendance was in fact the whole multitude of Israel.
-- Oxen and fatlings were sacrificed.
-- He was GIRDED with a linen ephod.
-- David danced before the Lord with ALL his MIGHT.
-- They had a cake of bread, meat and wine.
-- David UNCOVERED himself in the eyes of the handmaids.
-- David said, "I will PLAY before the Lord."
-- In case I missed anything, read II Samuel 6.

In regard to "the elders," I have no idea where you got brainwashed by thinking that they did not initiate the problem themselves. The fact is that there was division among the elders. How would you expect anything other than a divided house when the elders themselves were divided? Do not blame the members. Do not blame Donnie. Do not blame ConcernedMembers.

If anything, BLAME the change agents and their intrusive activities and interferences. They ought to leave peaceful congregations alone. The Madison congregation was undoubtedly a great city on the hill until the change agents made their conquest and wreaked havoc in the church. The good news is that Madison did not go "instrumental." The bad news is that recovery at Madison has been difficult.[/color]
Quote
Like
Share