The Trinity as three: Arius -Thalia

Dave
Dave

September 24th, 2015, 2:55 am #61

Ken said "If ken made the book case then the book case is not Ken."

Well now, you got me on that one. You are right....they can't possibly catch on.

Let's see now.....going from "The MAKER is always superior than the MADE."...to "If ken made the book case then the book case is not Ken."

I will count that one as parable, from the book of Ken.


I know they relate somehow.....just got to fine tune my noggin.

Please don't try to explain Ken, it is beyond my intelligence
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

September 24th, 2015, 4:47 am #62

Donnie says "Acts 2:36 is very, very clear: "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ." "


Donnie can't answer this though
Isaiah 9
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Donnie hems and haws with saying that God might not have MEANT to be capitalized there, or it really didn't mean Father as in God, but Donnie why did it back up each other? When this author backs up "mighty God" with "The everlasting Father" it means that the author is empirically stating that Jesus who was/is God. You do NOTICE that verse 6 in Isaiah 9 begins by speaking ABOUT the son. Then THE SON WAS GOD. THE SON WAS/IS the everlasting Father.

John 10
30 I and my Father are one.


No Donnie that isn't just a passing thought as YOU claim. It is by Jesus Himself and no it wasn't just to convey a thought on mental and emotional unity. THEY ARE ONE in every way. THAT IS WHY God hurt when Jesus took His last breath on the cross. Why? Because Jesus was a part of God....therefore as the author in John 1 claims....Jesus is God. The Word was God, the Word became Jesus in the flesh, which STILL and ALWAYS will mean that Jesus was/is God.

The funny thing Donnie....YOU are the one who mocks those who claim the Trinity, yet YOU are the one who wants to separate God from Christ. I shouldn't say it is funny, for it really isn't funny Ken or Donnie. So you want proof AGAIN for the umptenth time Donnie??? Really???
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Dave,

01. Mary did not give birth to God the Father.
02. It wasn't God who was crucified.
03. It wasn't God who died on the cross.
04. It wasn't God who was buried, resurrected and ascended to heaven.
05. But it was God who raised Jesus from the dead.
06. It was Jesus (not God) who cried, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me."
07. Jesus called the Father "my God" (John 20:17).
08. He addresses the Father "my God" 4 times in Rev. 3:12.
09. Jesus addresses God as "my Father" at least 50 times in the New Testament.
10. Jesus Christ is never God the Father in the entire Bible.
11. It was Jesus who said: Worship God the Father in spirit and in truth (John 4:21-24).
12. So, Dave, where was God the Father IF (or as you say: when) He became flesh?

That's only a start of a long list....

Another very clear passage is when Jesus spoke: "... Father, the hour is come ... that they might know THEE the only true God, AND [not OR] Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent<u>"</u> (John 17:1-3).[/color]
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on September 24th, 2015, 4:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 24th, 2015, 4:50 am #63

Ken said "If ken made the book case then the book case is not Ken."

Well now, you got me on that one. You are right....they can't possibly catch on.

Let's see now.....going from "The MAKER is always superior than the MADE."...to "If ken made the book case then the book case is not Ken."

I will count that one as parable, from the book of Ken.


I know they relate somehow.....just got to fine tune my noggin.

Please don't try to explain Ken, it is beyond my intelligence
Not a parable but a fact just like this one if you remember 1 Cor 2

The Spirit OF God
.....is to God
What our spirit
.....is to us.

If the Spirit OF God is another "people" then your spirit or mind is another. Careless is fatal. What people are saying is that "God is out of His Mind."

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Bill
Bill

September 24th, 2015, 12:22 pm #64

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Dave,

01. Mary did not give birth to God the Father.
02. It wasn't God who was crucified.
03. It wasn't God who died on the cross.
04. It wasn't God who was buried, resurrected and ascended to heaven.
05. But it was God who raised Jesus from the dead.
06. It was Jesus (not God) who cried, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me."
07. Jesus called the Father "my God" (John 20:17).
08. He addresses the Father "my God" 4 times in Rev. 3:12.
09. Jesus addresses God as "my Father" at least 50 times in the New Testament.
10. Jesus Christ is never God the Father in the entire Bible.
11. It was Jesus who said: Worship God the Father in spirit and in truth (John 4:21-24).
12. So, Dave, where was God the Father IF (or as you say: when) He became flesh?

That's only a start of a long list....

Another very clear passage is when Jesus spoke: "... Father, the hour is come ... that they might know THEE the only true God, AND [not OR] Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent<u>"</u> (John 17:1-3).[/color]
1. Mary gave birth to Jesus as God in His earthly form.
2. Jesus as God on earth was crucified.
3. Jesus as God on earth died on the cross.
4. Jesus as God on earth was buried, resurrected, and ascended back into heaven whence He came.
5. God raised Jesus as the earthly form of God from the dead.
6,7,9. Jesus as the earthly form of God addressed the spiritual form of God in heaven as "My God."
8. The apocalyptic language in Revelation is symbolic.
10. Jesus is God in the Bible Who is physically manifested in the New Testament.
11. Jesus as God in earthly form said to worship God the Father, Who is Spirit.
12. God is the One True God in Spirit Who sent Himself as Jesus in the flesh. God was in heaven and on earth -- at the same time. Why? Because with God all things are possible.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 24th, 2015, 6:43 pm #65

earthly form

Jesus was the IMAGE of God. Form or morphe is also an image. Morphe is also used in the Greek text as the FORM OF A WORD. Jesus was in the morphe of the WORD because He spoke only what the one god the father breathed (spirit) into him. God's breath was communicated without metron or METER. That's proven by the fact that:

The Direct command is to SPEAK the Word or Logos or EXCLUSIVELY of "that which is written for our learning."

There is nothing which is commanded inclusively and exclusively in the whole Bible which is written in lyric poetry meaning designed to be sung with a Lyre.

The Logos is the Regulative principle opposite to personal comments, personal opinions. moralizing sermons, singing, playing instrument.

The Logos form of Lexis is OPPOSITE to ODE or singing.

Jesus prayed to His FATHER Who was in heaven or another dimension. The father in heaven answered the prayers of His son. Even after his move into Holy Spirit form He still called himself Jesus OF Nazareth.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

September 25th, 2015, 5:06 am #66

1. Mary gave birth to Jesus as God in His earthly form.
2. Jesus as God on earth was crucified.
3. Jesus as God on earth died on the cross.
4. Jesus as God on earth was buried, resurrected, and ascended back into heaven whence He came.
5. God raised Jesus as the earthly form of God from the dead.
6,7,9. Jesus as the earthly form of God addressed the spiritual form of God in heaven as "My God."
8. The apocalyptic language in Revelation is symbolic.
10. Jesus is God in the Bible Who is physically manifested in the New Testament.
11. Jesus as God in earthly form said to worship God the Father, Who is Spirit.
12. God is the One True God in Spirit Who sent Himself as Jesus in the flesh. God was in heaven and on earth -- at the same time. Why? Because with God all things are possible.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill,

Acts 2:36 is very, very clear: "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ."

In case you didn't know, when the Bible speaks of ONE GOD, it is in reference to GOD THE FATHER:

a. God the Father -- John 6:27
b. One God the Father -- I Cor. 8:6
c. God the Father -- Gal. 1:1 -- raised Jesus Christ from the dead.
d. God the Father -- Gal. 1:3
e. God the Father -- Eph. 6:23
f. God the Father -- Phil. 2:11
g. God the Father -- I Thess. 1:1
h. God the Father -- II Tim. 1:2
i. God the Father -- Titus 1:4
j. God the Father -- I Peter 1:2
k. God the Father -- II Peter 1:17
l. God the Father -- II John 1:3
m. God the Father -- Jude 1:1

a. Jesus Christ is the Son of God (Acts 8:37)
b. Jesus Christ is the Son of God (John 20:31)
c. Jesus Christ is the Son of God (John 11:27)
d. Jesus Christ is the Son of God (Acts 9:20)
e. Jesus Christ is the Son of God (II Cor. 1:19)
f. Jesus Christ is the Son of God (Heb. 4:14)
g. Jesus Christ is the Son of God (I John 4:15)
h. ... and several other passages.


[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]a. God the Son -- not in the Bible.
b. God the Son -- not in the Bible.
c. God the Son -- not in the Bible.

a. God the Holy Spirit (3rd Person) -- not in the Bible.
b. God the Holy Spirit (3rd Person) -- not in the Bible.
c. God the Holy Spirit (3rd Person) -- not in the Bible.

a. Jesus as God in His earthly form -- not in the Bible.
a. Jesus as God in His earthly form -- not in the Bible.
b. Jesus as God on earth -- not in the Bible.
b. Jesus as God on earth -- not in the Bible.
c. Jesus as the earthly form of God -- not in the Bible.
c. Jesus as the earthly form of God -- not in the Bible.
d. Jesus as God crying: "My God, my God" -- not in the Bible.
d. Jesus as God crying: "My God, my God" -- not in the Bible.
e. Jesus as God sitting on the right hand of God -- not in the Bible.
e. Jesus as God sitting on the right hand of God -- not in the Bible.

Another very clear passage is when Jesus spoke: "... Father, the hour is come ... that they might know THEE the only true God, AND [not OR] Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent<u>"</u> (John 17:1-3).[/color]
[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 25th, 2015, 3:14 pm #67

Thanks! That's all that needs to be said.
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Dave
Dave

September 25th, 2015, 4:55 pm #68

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill,

Acts 2:36 is very, very clear: "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ."

In case you didn't know, when the Bible speaks of ONE GOD, it is in reference to GOD THE FATHER:

a. God the Father -- John 6:27
b. One God the Father -- I Cor. 8:6
c. God the Father -- Gal. 1:1 -- raised Jesus Christ from the dead.
d. God the Father -- Gal. 1:3
e. God the Father -- Eph. 6:23
f. God the Father -- Phil. 2:11
g. God the Father -- I Thess. 1:1
h. God the Father -- II Tim. 1:2
i. God the Father -- Titus 1:4
j. God the Father -- I Peter 1:2
k. God the Father -- II Peter 1:17
l. God the Father -- II John 1:3
m. God the Father -- Jude 1:1

a. Jesus Christ is the Son of God (Acts 8:37)
b. Jesus Christ is the Son of God (John 20:31)
c. Jesus Christ is the Son of God (John 11:27)
d. Jesus Christ is the Son of God (Acts 9:20)
e. Jesus Christ is the Son of God (II Cor. 1:19)
f. Jesus Christ is the Son of God (Heb. 4:14)
g. Jesus Christ is the Son of God (I John 4:15)
h. ... and several other passages.


[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]a. God the Son -- not in the Bible.
b. God the Son -- not in the Bible.
c. God the Son -- not in the Bible.

a. God the Holy Spirit (3rd Person) -- not in the Bible.
b. God the Holy Spirit (3rd Person) -- not in the Bible.
c. God the Holy Spirit (3rd Person) -- not in the Bible.

a. Jesus as God in His earthly form -- not in the Bible.
a. Jesus as God in His earthly form -- not in the Bible.
b. Jesus as God on earth -- not in the Bible.
b. Jesus as God on earth -- not in the Bible.
c. Jesus as the earthly form of God -- not in the Bible.
c. Jesus as the earthly form of God -- not in the Bible.
d. Jesus as God crying: "My God, my God" -- not in the Bible.
d. Jesus as God crying: "My God, my God" -- not in the Bible.
e. Jesus as God sitting on the right hand of God -- not in the Bible.
e. Jesus as God sitting on the right hand of God -- not in the Bible.

Another very clear passage is when Jesus spoke: "... Father, the hour is come ... that they might know THEE the only true God, AND [not OR] Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent<u>"</u> (John 17:1-3).[/color]
[/color]
You got that right Ken!!!


Acts 2:36 is very, very clear: "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ."


God made Jesus....does that not clearly state that Jesus is FROM and OF God? You are telling me therefore that Jesus can't be God because God made Him? Why not?

Peter even CLEARLY states that Jesus is both LORD and CHRIST. You have never heard God called Lord?

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 25th, 2015, 5:20 pm #69

Made is Latin: făcĭo: , to make in all senses, to do, perform, accomplish, prepare, produce, bring to pass, cause, effect, create, commit, perpetrate, form, fashion,

Greek: poieō , make, produce, first of something material, as manufactures, works of art, etc
create, bring into existence,

God MADE everything which HAS been made. The old World Order was destroyed by Water because the people had become about as evil as hire driven religionists. The New World Order which is spiritual and you will never see it unless you obey Christ in Habbakuk: The Lord is in His holy temple let all the earth KEEP SILENCE before Him. He seems to be getting ready to destroy this order by FIRE because Jesus came with the Word to seek and save a little (mikros) flock OUT of the world (ecumenical).


Matt. 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
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Bill
Bill

September 25th, 2015, 7:36 pm #70

You got that right Ken!!!


Acts 2:36 is very, very clear: "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ."


God made Jesus....does that not clearly state that Jesus is FROM and OF God? You are telling me therefore that Jesus can't be God because God made Him? Why not?

Peter even CLEARLY states that Jesus is both LORD and CHRIST. You have never heard God called Lord?
The Scriptures are very clear...

"Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us" (Matt. 1:23). Jesus was not called "Emmanuel" because it sounded pleasant or manly; "Emmanuel" applied to Jesus indicated the fact that Jesus was God in the flesh while He was with us on earth.

"I and my Father are one" (John 10:30). Jesus is one with God in mind and spirit because Jesus is God.

"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" (John 14:9). Jesus confesses that He is God the Father.
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