The Trinity as three: Arius -Thalia

Bill
Bill

September 13th, 2015, 1:06 pm #31

Yes, there is only one God. No question about that. How Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit factor into that is a matter of individual interpretation (Trinity, no Trinity), because no single person has the one-and-only correct interpretation about it. There is, of course, the occasional self-righteous person with an I-am-right-you-are-wrong attitude. Thankfully, we can discount that person.
Let's be clear about 2 Peter 1:20-21:

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

Note this commentary from The Nelson Study Bible (NKJV):

"Although some have taken ['of any private interpretation'] to mean that no individual Christian has the right to interpret prophecy for himself or herself, the context and the Greek word for interpretation indicates another meaning for the verse. The Greek word for interpretation can also mean "origin." In the context of v. 21, it is clear that Peter is speaking of Scripture's "origin" from God Himself and not the credentials of the one who interprets it. There is no private source for the Bible; the prophets did not supply their own solutions or explanations to the mysteries of life."

And commentary from The King James Study Bible:

"'Prophecy' may be used here as a general term for divine revelation. 'Private interpretation' means 'origination.' Thus, true revelation does not originate by the will of man."

Scripture does not originate from man, yet each person must read the Scripture and interpret for himself what the Scripture means. Thus, some interpret the Scripture to mean that Jesus is God; others do not. Some interpret the Scripture to mean that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are grouped as three-in-one or one-in-three; others do not.

One thing is certain, however: since the Scripture does not draw the proverbial "line" between the saved and the lost about these two particular subjects, then neither shall we.

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Bill
Bill

September 13th, 2015, 1:27 pm #32

Nope! that would make you equal to God. Peter said that scripture was not for private interpretation or further expounding and Paul said it was not for corrupting by "selling learning at retail."

I am right and you are wrong because I just quote the Bible and get called "insane" for rejecting people who have their OWN spirit and need exorcism rather than honored by all of the Non-Christian universities.

It is a matter of ASSERTIVE REVELATION. Jesus figures in because He was the MAN God picked to ratify or make more certain the Spirit OF Christ defined inclusively and exclusively. God MADE JESUS TO BE both LORD and CHRIST (messiah is not a God word). Peter said that he as eye--and ear-- witness would leave US a memory and only false teachers go beyond and violate the command to teach that which has been taught.

The spirit is figured in because IT is a THAT and WHICH is the BREATH of God. Spirit is a PERSON called Apollon or Abaddon who is the LEADER of the Muses-locusts. Apollo was a god or "dead hero" who probably lived. He is now the defacto LEADER of musical worship teams or all performance singing deliberately rejecting the command to use "that which is written for our learning."

I happened to catch this as I sped by Ken's post:

"I am right and you are wrong because I just quote the Bible..."

Ken shouldn't brag too much because he can quote Scripture; the devil can do the same and probably even much better. LOL
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Rancor
Rancor

September 13th, 2015, 2:27 pm #33

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Jim,

Of course, not any of them is real. You made my point: at least one -- that there is only one true God the Father. John 17:1-3 is clear about this when Jesus himself said: "... Father, the hour is come ... that they might know thee the only true God, AND Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." There are so many more scriptural references to support this truth about the one true God -- not the 1 God + 1 God + 1 God = 1 God.

1. Jesus the Son of God is NOT God the Father.
2. God the Father is NOT the Son of God.
3. Jesus addressed his own Father; we also address God as our Father.
4. That there is only one true God excludes other Gods:

------- It excludes the Trinity's "God the Son" (not found in the Bible).
------- It excludes the Trinity's "God the Holy Spirit" (not found in the Bible).
------- It excludes "the other gods."


The other point, especially since there have been triads of gods through history, the Trinity creed/dogma had its origin based on pagan influences. (I would refer you to a number of threads where the subject of the Trinity is thoroughly discussed, one of the recent ones is: "You Ever Wonder Why [Jesus Is Called God in Isaiah]?") [I wish I had more time to explain more at this time.]

Thanks for your input.[/color]
Very good article!

https://www.christiancourier.com/articl ... ans-1-1-14
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

September 13th, 2015, 8:29 pm #34

Let's be clear about 2 Peter 1:20-21:

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

Note this commentary from The Nelson Study Bible (NKJV):

"Although some have taken ['of any private interpretation'] to mean that no individual Christian has the right to interpret prophecy for himself or herself, the context and the Greek word for interpretation indicates another meaning for the verse. The Greek word for interpretation can also mean "origin." In the context of v. 21, it is clear that Peter is speaking of Scripture's "origin" from God Himself and not the credentials of the one who interprets it. There is no private source for the Bible; the prophets did not supply their own solutions or explanations to the mysteries of life."

And commentary from The King James Study Bible:

"'Prophecy' may be used here as a general term for divine revelation. 'Private interpretation' means 'origination.' Thus, true revelation does not originate by the will of man."

Scripture does not originate from man, yet each person must read the Scripture and interpret for himself what the Scripture means. Thus, some interpret the Scripture to mean that Jesus is God; others do not. Some interpret the Scripture to mean that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are grouped as three-in-one or one-in-three; others do not.

One thing is certain, however: since the Scripture does not draw the proverbial "line" between the saved and the lost about these two particular subjects, then neither shall we.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill,

The two sets of scriptures I listed above deal with the following:

(1) There is only ONE GOD. I'm sure Christians agree. Then we should let the Scripture identify that only one God.

(2) The Father is that one God that the Scripture has identified for us.

Question is: Did you read those passages that clearly identify God as the Father? I listed more than a dozen scriptures. Do you believe the truth in those passages?[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

September 13th, 2015, 8:36 pm #35

I happened to catch this as I sped by Ken's post:

"I am right and you are wrong because I just quote the Bible..."

Ken shouldn't brag too much because he can quote Scripture; the devil can do the same and probably even much better. LOL
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill,

You missed the important message in the post: that it was God who made the crucified Jesus both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36).

That's what we're discussing here. So, join.[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 13th, 2015, 10:39 pm #36

Maybe Bill is quoting tom, dick and harry quoting Shakespeare?

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.An evil soul producing holy witness Is like a villain with a smiling cheek, A goodly apple rotten at the heart. O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!


Gen. 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen. 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen. 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen. 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Psalms 91 Reads:

Psa. 91: Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
Psa. 91:10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
Psa. 91:11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
Psa. 91:12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Satan probably with a theology degree didn't quote all of it. Satan USES the passage to suggest that this applies if He violates verse 1 and commits suicide.

Matt. 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Matt. 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

If you quote PARTS of a passage intending to DECEIVE then then Satan cannot SPEAK THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN FOR OUR LEARNING and neither can your mediators in song and sermon. Most preachers fall below the Devils (mediators leading you into god's presence) because they contrive a wicky-wacky by saying there are THREE GODS but they are ONE meaning they are friendly family.

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is ONE GOD; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?


I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but I see you are unarmed!”
― William Shakespeare
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on September 13th, 2015, 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

September 13th, 2015, 11:44 pm #37

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill,

You missed the important message in the post: that it was God who made the crucified Jesus both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36).

That's what we're discussing here. So, join.[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]There are those who think and believe that it was Jesus who made himself both Lord and Christ. But that's a fallacy based on Acts 2:36. So, the real question is: Who then made Jesus the crucified BOTH Lord and Christ?

The writer Dr. Luke put it in writing (so we can know for certain) that it was God who made Jesus both Lord and Christ -- which negates the belief that Jesus was/is God who made himself both Lord and Christ.

And who is God? God the Father!!! (I listed earlier some 14 scriptural references to "The Father" being "God.") It is God the Father Whom Jesus addressed in John 17:1-3 and Whom we address as God in prayer and in worship (John 4:21-24).[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 14th, 2015, 12:48 am #38

A Disciple of Christ is a student of Christ defined as edifying or education by the PROPHETS AND APOSTLES. This is such an INDIVIDUAL responsibility that the command from the Wilderness onward was that the WORD (only) was to be PREACHED by being READ for comfort and doctrine. All of the epistles are commanded to be READ to all of the members and churches as circular letters: Peter called them Scripture.

Because the top down organization as human institutions, the LAMBS have been made dumb before the slaughter. This is because the elders are not APT and want to be important without being able to read or teach "that which has been taught." Most people have been fed on accumulated lists of what SPIRIT is said to do and people are CULTIFIED to believe what they are taught. So, nothing is more common than quoting whole though patterns and the mind-altered people go violent and claim that you are insane or as in this instance less qualified than Satan.

That has escalated to the point that usurping theologians have cowered too many elders by telling them (Hicks told me) "you cannot understand the Bible like we do." That's a fact: as TRINITARIANS they can claim that "a" spirit told them that if Jesus had known what we know or lived in our culture He would gladly approve of all kinds of musical instruments and TIMELY lectures about the preacher who is a PATTERN to be imitated. Literate people no longer believe it and the members who are told that the Bible is no longer relevant show up as "empty pews." Watching crime stories makes you understand.

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Bill
Bill

September 14th, 2015, 1:16 am #39

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]There are those who think and believe that it was Jesus who made himself both Lord and Christ. But that's a fallacy based on Acts 2:36. So, the real question is: Who then made Jesus the crucified BOTH Lord and Christ?

The writer Dr. Luke put it in writing (so we can know for certain) that it was God who made Jesus both Lord and Christ -- which negates the belief that Jesus was/is God who made himself both Lord and Christ.

And who is God? God the Father!!! (I listed earlier some 14 scriptural references to "The Father" being "God.") It is God the Father Whom Jesus addressed in John 17:1-3 and Whom we address as God in prayer and in worship (John 4:21-24).[/color]
It may be a fallacy to you, but it's not to others. You are entitled to your opinions just as much as everyone else is entitled to theirs in academic matters such as these. I call them "academic matters" simply because no one is drawing the line between the saved and the lost over them. And if no one is drawing the line, then one person's opinion carries just as much weight as another person's. The kicker is whether or not we're mature enough to be able to accept the opinions of others without becoming upset and resorting to the ole puerile I-am-right-you-are-wrong attitude.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 14th, 2015, 1:53 am #40

A Disciple of Christ is a student of Christ defined as edifying or education by the PROPHETS AND APOSTLES. This is such an INDIVIDUAL responsibility that the command from the Wilderness onward was that the WORD (only) was to be PREACHED by being READ for comfort and doctrine. All of the epistles are commanded to be READ to all of the members and churches as circular letters: Peter called them Scripture.

Because the top down organization as human institutions, the LAMBS have been made dumb before the slaughter. This is because the elders are not APT and want to be important without being able to read or teach "that which has been taught." Most people have been fed on accumulated lists of what SPIRIT is said to do and people are CULTIFIED to believe what they are taught. So, nothing is more common than quoting whole though patterns and the mind-altered people go violent and claim that you are insane or as in this instance less qualified than Satan.

That has escalated to the point that usurping theologians have cowered too many elders by telling them (Hicks told me) "you cannot understand the Bible like we do." That's a fact: as TRINITARIANS they can claim that "a" spirit told them that if Jesus had known what we know or lived in our culture He would gladly approve of all kinds of musical instruments and TIMELY lectures about the preacher who is a PATTERN to be imitated. Literate people no longer believe it and the members who are told that the Bible is no longer relevant show up as "empty pews." Watching crime stories makes you understand.

In Acts ONLY BAPTISM gives one A holy spirit: the person with an UNholy spirit when they are SAVED at baptism.

In 1 Peter 3 He said that BAPTISM NOW SAVES US
That is the only way to CALL upon God REQUESTING that He give us a good conscience, consciousness meaning a CO-PERCEPTION of the Word of God. It is perfectly clear that no level of occupation-driven Bible Study or the number of degrees one has in Greek, Jesus said that God HIDES from the Wise, sophists meaning "self preaching for Hire", singing or playing instruments.

Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites: in Isaiah 29 and Ezekiel 33 HYPOCRITES are defined as popular preachers for hire, singers, instrument players or their paying audience.

Jesus said that He doesn't PRAY for the World ORDER, KOSMOS or the ECUMENICAL as the reign of Satan.

Here is another perfectly clear passage which will get you called a liar or insane:

1Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received,
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
not the spirit OF the world,
.....but the spirit WHICH is OF God;
.....THAT we might KNOW the things
.....that are freely given to us of God.


A Holy Spirit or A good conscience speaks of our field of view. If you trust humans or "acts" of worship which do not teach or all of those dozens of programs they want you to join as WORKS of self-righteousness which they BOAST of, you do not have a CLEAR FIELD OF VIEW. The ACTION taken therefore by God if you are involved is that you do NOT get involved in Cult-Like programs where non productive people try to drive you like plowing oxen.

Nor should you ever get involved in small groups controlled by the MOTHER CHURCH.

Repeat: the spirit OF the World is a WHICH or that and is NEVER a walking-Talking PEOPLE or person.

Unless God gives you the Spirit WHICH IS OF Him He will never be able to understand the text: most modern preachers don't even try to teach whole thought patterns.

Pound, Pound, Pound and only the Little Flock of lost spirits or the SECT that is called the WAY will find the NARROW ROAD or PATTERN to be followed. I regret that but if you trust a MEDIATOR in song and sermon and do NOT become a Disciple of Christ Who HAS preached the only sermons and written for our learning in the Prophets and Apostles you need to find a small group: all tribal wisdom and the Mormons plan groups no larger than 150.

DON'T listen to anyone who wants you to worship like the Jews whom God turned over to worship the starry HOST and ignore the CREATOR of the host. If they want you to mock Jesus with vocal or instrumental noise--outlawed by Christ for the Church in the wilderness, Paul says you might just put up with them: he said in effect (watch politics) that fools love to be fooled. And God lets you go.<font>

1Cor. 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect:
.....yet not the wisdom of this world,
.....nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1Cor. 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery,
.....even the hidden wisdom,
.....which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
1Cor. 2:13 Which things also we SPEAK,
.....not in the WORDS which man’s wisdom teacheth,
.....but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.</font>

None of those who "see godliness as a means of financial gain" or occupation will know--with all of the Greek degrees--how to define the wisdom OF THE WORLD.

ANYTHING that falls under those EXAMPLES from real texts is EXCLUDED when you promise that Jesus is your only Rabbi.




</font>
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