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April 21st, 2013, 8:19 pm #81

This book by Campbell might be obtainable from the Gospel Advocate, but it is published by Faith and Facts Press, Indianapolis, Indiana.

Campbell was truly a Bible scholar and first generation Restorationist, but he was hardly quoted as an authority by second and third generation Disciples--probably because the movement was reluctant to build on the reputation of a man, but on the written word--what an irony!

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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

April 21st, 2013, 9:17 pm #82

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]I agree -- Campbell was indeed a Bible scholar ... with depth. The G.A. may have this book "Christianity Restored." If not, I'm sure the staff will be happy to order it for you. (I just had G.A. order and deliver 2 volumes of "Catholicism Against Itself" by O.C. Lambert.)

It's noteworthy that those [esp. "change agents" operating in the brotherhood] who attempt to denominationalize the church of Christ and to "rewrite" the Restoration Movement history can and do discredit Campbell and his works by misquoting him, taking his writings out of context in order to fit or match their "religious" ideology.[/color]
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April 21st, 2013, 9:36 pm #83

Rick Warren: "The Holy Spirit releases his power the moment you take a step of faith. . . . Obedience unlocks God's power. God waits for you to act first. . . . This is how you cooperate with the Holy Spirit, and it how your character develops." p. 174, What on Earth am I Here for, 2012, The Purpose Drive Life, Expanded Edition.

The Bible: Saul (Paul) said "What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, 'Arise, and go into Damascus, and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.' (Acts 22:10). . . . Ananias said to him 'And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord,; (Acts 22:16). No Holy Spirit mentioned so far.

With such, many in Churches of Christ are having to deal--correcting the literature that the "Holy Spirit appointed elders" are dumping on the churches.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

April 21st, 2013, 10:39 pm #84

"In the kingdom of God in which we are born of water, the Holy Spirit is as atmosphere in the kingdom of nature--we mean the influences of the Holy Spirit are as necessary to the new life, as the atmosphere is to our animal life in the kingdom of nature. All this is done in us before regeneration, God our Father effects by the word, or the gospel as dictated and confirmed by his Holy Spirit. But after we are thus begotten and born by the Spirit of God--after our new birth, the Holy Spirit is shed on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior; of which the peace of mind, the love, the joy, and the hope of the regenerate is full proof; for these are amongst the fruits of that Holy Spirit of promise of what we speak." Christianity Restored, Alexander Campbell, 1835, page 274.

Could we say that the Holy Spirit as shed on us be Jesus Christ brings peace of mind, love, joy, and hope? These are among the fruits of the Holy Spirit.

Can we say that before regeneration, that God our Father effects these changes by the word or gospel, and that is confirmed byh his Holy Spirit?

Campbell appears not to separate the Word, the Gospel, God the Father, Jesus Christ our Savior, but these all act together.

It would be unfair to Campbell, perhaps, to put him under our current microscope, but reading his book throughout will give us a pretty good idea what he is saying. He does not separate our feelings from the Word.
Can we say that before regeneration, that God our Father effects these changes by the word or gospel, and that is confirmed by his Holy Spirit?

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]That sounds accurately stated to me.

First, there is the duty to "preach the gospel of Christ" (II Cor. 11:7; 10:14; Rom. 15:19). Paul identifies "the gospel of Christ" as "the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Rom. 1:16). And "the word of truth" defines "the gospel of Christ." And Jesus said [while living with his disciples]: "I am the way, THE TRUTH, and the life." He was that promised "Spirit of TRUTH" when he said, "I will come to you and dwell IN you," according to John 14:17; 15:26; 16:13 and I John 4:6.

Believing in the gospel is that recognition and acceptance that God made Jesus (whom ye crucified) both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:37). That in effect leads to repentance and finally baptism [immersion] -- the regeneration.

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." (John 3:5) (Note: "of the Spirit" is not in reference to "baptism of/in the Holy Ghost" the Charismatic/Pentecostal way. Nor it is the Trinity's Holy Ghost being received.)

Rather, the new birth, according to Acts 2:37,38 and other supporting passages, pertains to being:

(a) Born of water: the washing of regeneration in baptism for the forgiveness of sins in the Redeemer's blood
-------------- and -----------------
(b) Born of the spirit: the receiving of the gift of a holy spirit or man's spirit MADE HOLY, the renewing of the mind. If this were the Trinity's 3rd PERSON "Holy Spirit" being received, the Trinity Creed would be self-destructive -- why not receive the Trinity's 1st PERSON, the Father; and why not receive the Trinity's 2nd PERSON, the Son?

The premise is correct: The changes in man (believing and repentance, etc.) are effected by "the word of truth" (II Cor. 6:7; Eph. 1:13; II Tim. 2:15) in Jesus, "the truth," as well as "the Spirit of truth" (John 14-16; I John 4:6). These changes are effected prior to regeneration. It is the gospel of Jesus Christ. But not only do we recognize Jesus Christ as "the truth" but also as "the Spirit of truth." [/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

April 21st, 2013, 10:56 pm #85

Rick Warren: "The Holy Spirit releases his power the moment you take a step of faith. . . . Obedience unlocks God's power. God waits for you to act first. . . . This is how you cooperate with the Holy Spirit, and it how your character develops." p. 174, What on Earth am I Here for, 2012, The Purpose Drive Life, Expanded Edition.

The Bible: Saul (Paul) said "What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, 'Arise, and go into Damascus, and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.' (Acts 22:10). . . . Ananias said to him 'And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord,; (Acts 22:16). No Holy Spirit mentioned so far.

With such, many in Churches of Christ are having to deal--correcting the literature that the "Holy Spirit appointed elders" are dumping on the churches.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]I am shocked, but not really, to find out [it was ringing in my ears] from you that the just-promoted senior minister of Madison was being mentored by Rick Warren.

Jason Shep's sermons, "WHAT ON EARTH AM I HERE FOR? PART 1..."

Watch out!!! What's else (i.e., "truth" or Warren's philosophy and church psychology) is Jason learning from the Saddleback Community Church guru?[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

April 22nd, 2013, 12:00 am #86

Can we say that before regeneration, that God our Father effects these changes by the word or gospel, and that is confirmed by his Holy Spirit?

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]That sounds accurately stated to me.

First, there is the duty to "preach the gospel of Christ" (II Cor. 11:7; 10:14; Rom. 15:19). Paul identifies "the gospel of Christ" as "the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Rom. 1:16). And "the word of truth" defines "the gospel of Christ." And Jesus said [while living with his disciples]: "I am the way, THE TRUTH, and the life." He was that promised "Spirit of TRUTH" when he said, "I will come to you and dwell IN you," according to John 14:17; 15:26; 16:13 and I John 4:6.

Believing in the gospel is that recognition and acceptance that God made Jesus (whom ye crucified) both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:37). That in effect leads to repentance and finally baptism [immersion] -- the regeneration.

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." (John 3:5) (Note: "of the Spirit" is not in reference to "baptism of/in the Holy Ghost" the Charismatic/Pentecostal way. Nor it is the Trinity's Holy Ghost being received.)

Rather, the new birth, according to Acts 2:37,38 and other supporting passages, pertains to being:

(a) Born of water: the washing of regeneration in baptism for the forgiveness of sins in the Redeemer's blood
-------------- and -----------------
(b) Born of the spirit: the receiving of the gift of a holy spirit or man's spirit MADE HOLY, the renewing of the mind. If this were the Trinity's 3rd PERSON "Holy Spirit" being received, the Trinity Creed would be self-destructive -- why not receive the Trinity's 1st PERSON, the Father; and why not receive the Trinity's 2nd PERSON, the Son?

The premise is correct: The changes in man (believing and repentance, etc.) are effected by "the word of truth" (II Cor. 6:7; Eph. 1:13; II Tim. 2:15) in Jesus, "the truth," as well as "the Spirit of truth" (John 14-16; I John 4:6). These changes are effected prior to regeneration. It is the gospel of Jesus Christ. But not only do we recognize Jesus Christ as "the truth" but also as "the Spirit of truth." [/color]
John Mark Hicks etal who probably never read Bacon accuse Alexander Campbell with basing his hermeneutics on Baconian Rationalism. That spits in the face of a grand scholar who clearly never taught anything that was not the Biblical Text.

The Campbells defines (again)

Church is A School of Christ
Worship is reading and musing the Word.

The Campbells taught to repudiate theologians who have added lots more pieces to the PATTERN defined by ekklesia or synagogue.

However, Hicks notes that Campbell was not totally "rational" (rational means spiritual: a very bad thing)

Campbell recognized that if we are to receive any benefit from reading the Scriptures, we must earnestly pray for the Spirit to apply them and to explain them to our hearts (Richardson, Memoirs, 1:143). The Spirit accompanies the word in such a way that the Spirit works in the hearts of its readers. "

The rest of the story: Campbell wrote:

First, to understand them by a diligent comparing of them, one with another, observing the regularity, strength and consistency of each part;

and, second, to receive any benefit from them,

"But that the Scriptures may have the desired effect, we are to read them for this end and in this manner.


So, you see, God will not let false teachers read HIS Word. Campbell said nothing about needing The Holy Spirit person to EXPLAIN the Word to us. Did I miss something?

Campbell never thought that you needed SUPERNATURAL HELP in order to read the text.

For this end, that, by the blessing of God and the influence of the Holy Spirit, we may be rendered thereby holy, humble and wise unto salvation; that we may know of the grand concerns of an eternal scene, and be put in the way to escape eternal wrath and to gain eternal happiness. And in this manner are we to read them:

Alexander Campbell said that the gift of A holy spirit is OUR spirit made holy. We receive A good conscience so that we can READ and understand the text. If John Mark Hicks believes that A HOLY SPIRIT guides you into all understanding then HE should quite getting paid to do the work of The Holy Spirit person he thinks is required to explain the Word delivered by Jesus.

2Timothy 3:15 And that from a babe thou hast known the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.








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April 22nd, 2013, 12:32 am #87

What may be happening is that hollow-minded leaders are telling the preaching staff what material to preach.

Hollow-minded because they are successful in business, but not particularly gifted in Biblical matters.

The preaching staff, on the other hand, is more Biblically adept but lack the money and power to call the shots and decide the material.

So it is, that although successful in business, they are failing to guide the church Biblically and to recognize spiritually motivating preaching.
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April 22nd, 2013, 1:44 am #88

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]I am shocked, but not really, to find out [it was ringing in my ears] from you that the just-promoted senior minister of Madison was being mentored by Rick Warren.

Jason Shep's sermons, "WHAT ON EARTH AM I HERE FOR? PART 1..."

Watch out!!! What's else (i.e., "truth" or Warren's philosophy and church psychology) is Jason learning from the Saddleback Community Church guru?[/color]
The tragic aspect is that there are wide differences on various teachings between Rick Warren and those in Churches of Christ. Actually, various denominations also complain about Warren, for many of the same reasons. Check with the Swaggarts in Lousiana, for example.

These include manner of salvation; functions and defintions of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; role of providence (determination) versus human volition (choice) in a person's future; the mode of worship; the use of alcohol. . . .

For example, guidelines include:

LIMIT OUR FREEDOM--To limit our freedom by not serving or consuming alcohol during small group meetings of events so as to avoid causing a weaker brother or sister to stumble.

[Sorry, teetotalers, you're narrow-minded. Never mind that you grandfather or brother died from alcoholism, you shouldn't be so against alcohol. Actually, the Saddle-back plantation looks like at one time it may have grown grapes.]

Also they pair off as reading partners, but Warren warns them to make same-gender selections--I wonder if there has been too many familiarity when this was not followed.

Rick Warren is overweight, and he always wears his shirt outside his belt. This is a tell-tale sign among his followers.

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

April 22nd, 2013, 1:56 am #89

Rick Warren's son killed himself: Rick writes it off as a mental problem. Based on Rick's thesis God caused the lad to have problems and God finally bought him a gun, and pulled the trigger.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

April 22nd, 2013, 3:34 am #90

What may be happening is that hollow-minded leaders are telling the preaching staff what material to preach.

Hollow-minded because they are successful in business, but not particularly gifted in Biblical matters.

The preaching staff, on the other hand, is more Biblically adept but lack the money and power to call the shots and decide the material.

So it is, that although successful in business, they are failing to guide the church Biblically and to recognize spiritually motivating preaching.
We have shown that the gift of A holy spirit has the same meaning as A good conscience, consciousness or a co-perception of the Word of God.

We have also shown that that was the view of Walter Scott and Alexander Campbell. A holy spirit in the literature is contrasted to an UNholy spirit.

Hebrews 10:22 let us draw near with a true heart in fulness of faith,
.....having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience:
.....and having our body washed with pure water

This happens at the same time. Repent AND be baptized and ye SHALL receive the gift of A holy spirit. Worship is IN THE SPIRIT (place) and God does not even seek worship done IN THE FLESH.

The Spirit OF Christ proved this in prophetic types:

Isaiah 59:20 And a Redeemer will come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith Jehovah.
Isaiah 59:21 And as for me, this is my covenant with them, saith Jehovah:
.....my Spirit that is upon thee,
.....and my words which I have put in thy mouth,
.....shall not depart out of thy mouth,
.....nor out of the mouth of thy seed,
.....nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seed,
.....saith Jehovah, from henceforth and for ever.

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you,
.....and a new spirit will I put within you;
.....and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh,
.....and I will give you a heart of flesh.
Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my Spirit within you,
.....and cause you to walk in my statutes,
.....and ye shall keep mine ordinances, and do them.

Therefore, it is a proven fact from God Himself that those who REJECT following the Word of God CANNOT have "A" holy spirit.
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