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April 14th, 2013, 1:22 am #31

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]When you make the assertion that opposing doctrines or beliefs does not matter, there is really no point in you participating in the discussion. This board is about discussing doctrinal differences.

You're assuming too much. And you're still making assertions WITHOUT scriptural support.

Educate us on the preposition "OF" as that will clarify nebulous assertions concerning the relationship in the Godhead. The preposition "of" is not insignificant, B.

When you remove that [teaching us more about the preposition "of"] from the discussion, you are essentially drawing this conclusion that:[/color]

"the holy spirit OF the Lord God"

................ = .................

"the holy spirit IS the Lord God"


[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]There is a difference. Don't you see it? If you don't see it, let me explain that:

(a) There are 70 references to the preposition "of" in these expressions in Scripture.

-------------- versus --------------

(b) Substituting "is" for "of" is what the Trinity Creed teaches. [/color]
I urge you to accept the fact that, regarding the arrangement of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the New Testament neither commands nor condemns how we must perceive that arrangement. The New Testament does not list every conceivable yea or nay about all possible issues. That is FAR different from the stand the New Testament takes on such issues as baptism, vocal music, the Lord's Supper, and others. There, we have explicit commands about how to proceed; deviation from those instructions is sin. But where the New Testament does not issue any explicit instructions, commands, or condemnations about issues, then man is at liberty to formulate his own perceptions about those issues.

We have Matt. 28:19, in which Jesus commands us to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; there, Jesus mentions not just one but THREE spiritual identities. Then we have other passages that mention "the spirit of God/Lord/Father/Son/Christ," etc. Are we to ignore that one passage in favor of the many? Of course not! Some people's perceptions will identify more with Matt. 28:19, whereas other people will identify more with "the spirit of..." passages. The point is that, because the New Testament lacks a command or condemnation regarding what perception we must adopt about this matter, then how we perceive it is a matter of CHOICE.

Even though Jesus explicitly mentions Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, you reject any grouping of them as three separate beings/entities/identities, because the Catholics decided to group them as the "Trinity." Moreover, as far as the Holy Spirit is concerned, you subscribe to "the spirit of God/Christ/Lord/Father/Son," etc. There's certainly nothing wrong about how you've chosen to perceive this matter. You relate more to "the spirit of..." than to a three-part grouping of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. However, I sense that if people's perceptions about this matter are different from your own, then you believe they are dead wrong, after which you go off on a tangent about the preposition "of."

You would have sufficient justification to say that those who differ with you are wrong ONLY if the New Testament explicitly commanded that "the spirit of..." concept was the only scriptural concept about this matter. Since the New Testament DOES NOT carry any such command, and given the fact that we have mention of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit together to boot, then your conclusion is not scripturally justified.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

April 14th, 2013, 6:43 am #32

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]The "arrangement" of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" is your own idea. You just listed a number of issues including baptism, vocal music, the Lord's Supper, etc. Excepting the Trinity issue from such a list is also your own idea. Now, making that exception is nonsensical. By the way, vocal music is not a command. That, too, is your idea.

You've been making assertions that do not deal specifically with the issue of the Roman Catholic Church/papacy-invented, pagan-rooted Trinity Creed. The Trinity Creed declares that the Holy Spirit is the third PERSON, masculine-gendered God [which man-made creed unfortunately influenced versions including the KJV to capitalize the word "spirit" [[which is NOT masculine]], and capitalize as well its modifier "holy" [[which is an adjective]] -- and then refer to the phrase "Holy Spirit" as a proper name]. As a grammarian, did it even cross your mind to examine how an improper noun ("spirit") preceded by an adjective ("holy") suddenly became the proper name of a supreme being?

Your dissertation (philosophical excuses and reasoning) has been noted. But I did not find any scriptural evidences to support whatever your belief system is. I don't even know what it is because you've only made generalizations and offered advice to be accepting and be open to options.

You are afraid to be explicit about what you really believe concerning God's holy spirit. Oh, I just mentioned "God's holy spirit." I imagine you are still clueless as to how impacting that expression truly is, considering your expertise in grammar. Well, let me help you -- I think you need it this time. When you carefully analyze the structure of the expression "God's holy spirit," the first question that should come to mind is: "WHOSE spirit?" Doesn't that suggest possession or ownership? OK, I'll leave everything else about grammar to you. Just consider the proper noun, the adjective that precedes the improper noun.

I am not afraid to present what the Scripture says unequivocally:

I do not reject Matt. 28:19 where it mentions "the holy spirit" along with the Father and the Son. I am here to prove that some 70 scriptural references that mention the expression "the spirit OF __________" [and you finally learned to fill in the blank properly] do provide clarification of the misconception of what "the holy spirit" is.

There is no contradiction whatsoever between: (1) the 70 references from the rest of the Holy Scripture and (2) Matt. 28:19. Why not? It's because all the other references to "the [holy] spirit of" are followed by the SOURCE -- the Lord. What else is there to explain other than to point out that "the holy spirit" BELONGS TO WHOM? Christians should be aware that the holy spirit belongs to the Lord [source], that it does not belong to the devil [source].

Therefore, I have no problem with "the holy spirit" being mentioned in Matt. 28:19. There is no contradiction for I know to whom the spirit belongs. And I'm scriptually comfortable in averring that the spirit of our Lord Jesus Christ is HOLY or that "the spirit of Christ the Lord IS the holy spirit."

I urge you to get involved in discussing specifics. I have no problem in understanding Matt. 28:19 and other passages, all of which deal with baptism "in the name of." Do you?[/color]
  • Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Matt. 28:19

    </li>
  • ---------------------------------------

    </li>
  • Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)

    </li>
  • (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) [Acts 8:16]

    </li>
  • And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. (Acts 10:48)

    </li>
  • When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 19:5)</li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]When we "rightly divide the word of truth," there is no contradiction.

The spirit of our Lord Jesus Christ is HOLY.

The title of this thread: "The Spirit of Christ the Lord Is the Holy Spirit."[/color]
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April 14th, 2013, 1:03 pm #33

Such a tirade from you! All simply because we are free to form our own perceptions about the "arrangement" of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Remember, the New Testament provides no explicit command about how we are to perceive that arrangement.

So everyone must agree with the perception that you have personally chosen, or they are dead wrong--right? Now could it be that those who disagree with your personal choice are in danger of hell? Is that kinda lurking somewhere near the surface and just itching to break loose? Oh, I hope you're not that medieval.

Let's just say that you have chosen the biblical perception "the spirit of..." and will stick with that, whereas I have chosen the equally biblical perception "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" and will stick with that.

OK, I'll give you the last word [for now], seeing that's what you most earnestly desire.

=====================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Again, this post of yours is a continuation of the same excuses. No solid argument for what you really believe (of which I still have no idea and about which I have no choice but to assume you're aligned with the Trinity creed). You keep quoting "Father, Son and Holy Ghost" which is fine, but you're not presenting anything to prove that the "Holy Ghost" is the Trinity's 3rd PERSON God. If you really believe in the Trinity Creed, that's just fine and acceptable. Just be honest about it.

ConcernedMembers never forces anyone to accept its views. All it's doing is present scriptural references and documented historical evidences.

My last post was an attempt to prove that "the Holy Spirit" as an entity mentioned in Matt. 28:19 is actually "the Spirit of the Lord God<u>" that the 70 passages mention. <u>There's no contradiction in all of those passages.</u></u>

All you needed to say is you either disagree or disagree. And either way would have been fine with me.[/color]
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on April 14th, 2013, 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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April 15th, 2013, 1:02 am #34

I've already told you several times what I believe and provided the biblical reference. I gather you reject that answer and the biblical reference, because they do not exactly agree with your concept of this subject. Either that, or you've allowed your preoccupation with the preposition "of" to cloud your ability to recognize my answer and my biblical reference, in which case they would only appear to you as "excuses."
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

April 15th, 2013, 2:13 am #35

Jesus mentioned Father, Son and Spirit to REPUDIATE the always pagan triads or families of God. People who boast of not reading have no right to know:

Father, Spirit (mother, Dove) and Son are ALWAYS the Pagan THESIS of polytheism. God presents the ANTITHESIS almost always.

Jesus made it clear as ABC that God purposed to show that there was only ONE Divine Being (there cannot be three Almighties). He did this by endorsing Jesus as having ALL of the power or authority of the ALWAYS-Pagan "Father, Spirit(mother) and Son. God pronounced the man Jesus of Nazareth to be a SON whereas in Judasim where they worshipped the Queen of Heaven and in Babylon to which they were abandoned BECAUSE of their polytheism.

The ONE Almighty is FATHER or creator of all material things and the spirits of mankind: His WORD and WISDOM (Sophia or Spirit according to the Jews) were WITH GOD because they WERE GOD. God's spirit and Word are His "breath" (to fool the foolish materialists) and His ARTICULATED or projected Power.

The ONE Father MADE TO BE both Lord and Christ, Jesus of Nazareth: that REFUTES the eternal blasphemy of the ALWAYS-PAGAN trinities.

QUOTING: God is not a sexual being, either male or female--something that was considered to be true in ancient Near Eastern religion. He even speaks specifically against such a view in

<font color="#0000FF">Numbers 23:19 God is NOT a man, that he should lie; neither the SON of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?


where the text has God saying he is not a man [ish], and in in which he warns against creating a graven image of himself in "the likeness of male and female." But though he is not a male, the "formless" deity (Deut 4:15) has chosen to reveal himself largely in masculine ways

Deuteronomy 4:15 Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves;
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb
.....>out of the midst of the fire:
Deuteronomy 4:16 Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image,
.....the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,
Deuteronomy 4:17 The likeness of any beast that is on the earth,
.....the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air,
Deuteronomy 4:18 The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground,
.....the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth:
Deuteronomy 4:19 And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven,
.....and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars,
.....even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them,
.....and serve them, which the LORD thy God
.....hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.


When in art a human material form is used to represent the Holy Spirit, that form is usually that of the male human body, without meaning to attribute such physical features to the reality represented. For example, in the rare cases of depiction of the Trinity

The DOVE, for readers of clay tablets was the MOTHER goddess. God used the dove or "carrier pigeon" as the image of the Holy Spirit along with BREATH because that is what carries the MIND of the one God to the MOUTH of the Son as personified WORD.

as three identical persons [entities], the Holy Spirit is represented as male, in line with the depictions of the Father and the Son.

And that violates the direct commands of the ONE LORD among many "gods" or Elohim. You CANNOT ignore the clear message of Jesus and think of father, son and spirit as separate entities without GENERATING an image or IDOL of God.

There are some Christian groups who teach that the Holy Spirit is feminine or has feminine aspects. Most are based on the grammatical gender of the words in the original Bible languages where the Holy Spirit is the subject. In Hebrew the word for spirit (ruach) is feminine. In Aramaic also, the language generally considered to have been spoken by Jesus, the word is feminine. However, in Greek the word (pneuma) is neuter. This is not thought by most linguists to have significance for the sex of the person given that name.</font>

</font>

-------------------

An excellent illustration: "the spirit of man" vs. "the spirit of God"
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on April 16th, 2013, 5:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

April 15th, 2013, 5:47 am #36

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Ken,

One of my messages above (but not the initial post) was titled: "Prepositions Can Be Such a Pain!!!"

I have used examples to illustrate the significance of the preposition "OF"; I have done searches from the entire Holy Scripture [used the KJV] to provide counts where either "the spirit OF" or "the holy spirit OF" is referenced. Well, as accurate stats do not lie, there are at least 70 references to either expression, in addition to passages that refer to "His spirit" or "the spirit OF Him." (By the way, I provided these stats in my initial post.)

I even cautioned: "Hopefully, you've paid careful attention to reading and studying [NOT speed-reading] all the passages above."

It is so simple that one does not have to be as educated as our "resident English professor" in order to comprehend the significance of the two-letter word; how that it indicates "possession" or "ownership" or even the "source." Strangely, for example, the Trinity preachers proclaim about "the Spirit OF God" and are clueless as to its implication. They interpret "the holy Spirit OF God" as "the Holy Spirit IS God." Funny, that even though the preposition "OF" and the verb "IS" have something in common, i.e., they're both two-letter words, they have colossal differences in meaning.

The parallel or contrast you showed illustrates the point: "the spirit OF man" vs. "the spirit OF God." Better yet: "the unholy spirit OF man" vs. "the holy spirit OF God."

Here's another example that's humorous (I think I've mentioned this before) is about THE NOSE.

a. The nose OF Durante, a human being.
b. Durante has a nose [hope so]
c. The big nose OF Durante.
d. Durante owns that big nose.
e. Trinitarians would argue that the nose is a separate being
f. Trinitarians would declare that the Big Nose IS Durante.


I know ... I know that studying the preposition "OF" is very boring.

And certain people will continue to be uncomfortable in believing that "the Holy Spirit" [capitalized by translators] in the expression "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" (Matt. 28:19) is identified in those 70 references as "the holy spirit OF the Lord God/the Father/His Son Jesus Christ."[/color]
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April 15th, 2013, 1:10 pm #37

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]The Spirit OF Jesus Christ the Lord is the Holy Spirit!!!

That truth invalidates the doctrinal theory that the Holy Spirit is a person with a male gender identity.

Furthermore, numerous expressions associated with the "holy spirit" show possession for the following very significant reasons:

(1) Because the word "spirit" precedes the preposition "OF" as in "the spirit of"
(2) Because the word "spirit" follows the pronoun "HIS"


For the sake of simplification, consider the following expressions that identify "possession" or "that which belongs": the mind OF the child ... the big nose OF Durante ... her big mouth ... the unholy spirit OF man, etc. It means, respectively that the mind is not the child; that the mouth is not the person; that the unholy spirit is not the man.

There are innumerable references to the truth that the "holy spirit" is an entity or an attribute WHICH belongs to ______________:[/color]
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Lord (26 references in O.T.; Luke 4:18; Acts 5:9; 8:39; II Cor. 3:17,18)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF God (14 references in O.T.; 12 references in N.T.)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF our God (I Cor. 6:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the living God (II Cor. 3:3)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Christ (Rom. 8:9; I Peter 1:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Jesus Christ (Phil. 1:19)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Him (Rom. 8:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Lord God (Isa. 61:1)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF His Son (Gal. 4:6)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the holy Spirit OF God (Eph. 4:30)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Father (Matt. 10:20)

    Plus, WHOSE Spirit [indicating possession] is it?

    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. HIS Spirit that dwelleth in you (Rom. 8:11; I Cor. 2:10; I John 4:13)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. HIS holy Spirit (Isa. 63:10,11; I Thess. 4:8)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Him that raised up Jesus (Rom. 8:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit which is OF God (I Cor. 2:12) </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Hopefully, you've paid careful attention to reading and studying [NOT speed-reading] all the passages above.

Whether it is of the Lord ... or of God ... or of the living God ... or of the Father ... or of the Lord Jesus Christ: HIS SPIRIT IS THE HOLY SPIRIT; HIS SPIRIT DOES NOT INVENT, GENERATE OR CREATE ANOTHER HOLY SPIRIT!!![/color]
Just make it simple. You want to believe in the concept of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as non- persons, non-physical beings? Fine. They're mentioned together in the New Testament, so no problem. We don't even need to call them "Trinity" if that term causes anxiety.

You feel more comfortable instead with the concept of "the spirit of..."? Fine. That concept is also mentioned in the New Testament, so no problem.

The New Testament does not stipulate that one concept is acceptable and the other is not; therefore, BOTH are acceptable.

Simple.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

April 15th, 2013, 4:16 pm #38

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]The Spirit OF Jesus Christ the Lord is the Holy Spirit!!!

That truth invalidates the doctrinal theory that the Holy Spirit is a person with a male gender identity.

Furthermore, numerous expressions associated with the "holy spirit" show possession for the following very significant reasons:

(1) Because the word "spirit" precedes the preposition "OF" as in "the spirit of"
(2) Because the word "spirit" follows the pronoun "HIS"


For the sake of simplification, consider the following expressions that identify "possession" or "that which belongs": the mind OF the child ... the big nose OF Durante ... her big mouth ... the unholy spirit OF man, etc. It means, respectively that the mind is not the child; that the mouth is not the person; that the unholy spirit is not the man.

There are innumerable references to the truth that the "holy spirit" is an entity or an attribute WHICH belongs to ______________:[/color]
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Lord (26 references in O.T.; Luke 4:18; Acts 5:9; 8:39; II Cor. 3:17,18)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF God (14 references in O.T.; 12 references in N.T.)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF our God (I Cor. 6:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the living God (II Cor. 3:3)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Christ (Rom. 8:9; I Peter 1:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Jesus Christ (Phil. 1:19)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Him (Rom. 8:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Lord God (Isa. 61:1)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF His Son (Gal. 4:6)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the holy Spirit OF God (Eph. 4:30)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Father (Matt. 10:20)

    Plus, WHOSE Spirit [indicating possession] is it?

    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. HIS Spirit that dwelleth in you (Rom. 8:11; I Cor. 2:10; I John 4:13)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. HIS holy Spirit (Isa. 63:10,11; I Thess. 4:8)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Him that raised up Jesus (Rom. 8:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit which is OF God (I Cor. 2:12) </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Hopefully, you've paid careful attention to reading and studying [NOT speed-reading] all the passages above.

Whether it is of the Lord ... or of God ... or of the living God ... or of the Father ... or of the Lord Jesus Christ: HIS SPIRIT IS THE HOLY SPIRIT; HIS SPIRIT DOES NOT INVENT, GENERATE OR CREATE ANOTHER HOLY SPIRIT!!![/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

April 16th, 2013, 2:32 am #39

Just make it simple. You want to believe in the concept of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as non- persons, non-physical beings? Fine. They're mentioned together in the New Testament, so no problem. We don't even need to call them "Trinity" if that term causes anxiety.

You feel more comfortable instead with the concept of "the spirit of..."? Fine. That concept is also mentioned in the New Testament, so no problem.

The New Testament does not stipulate that one concept is acceptable and the other is not; therefore, BOTH are acceptable.

Simple.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]I NEVER see the expression "in the name of the Father, Son and the holy spirit" as a problem. You DO ... when the preposition in "the spirit OF" is in the picture.

You are the one creating the problem by pitting Matt. 28:19 against the 70 references that clearly define and identify "the holy spirit."

I have said numerous times already that there is no contradiction between Matt. 28:19 and the 70 scriptural references. So, here's the big question for you. Please be honest. Do you believe that "the holy spirit" in Matt. 28:19 is DIFFERENT from "the holy spirit" (with the preposition "OF") identified by/in those 70 passages?

(1) Do you rely on the Trinitarian creed that there is a separate THIRD PERSON HOLY SPIRIT = GOD?
---------------------- OR --------------------
(2) Do you trust the scores and scores of passages that clearly identify "the holy spirit" as "the spirit of God"?

BOTH are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

And you cannot have it both ways, B.

Again, the Scripture (some 70 passages) explain that:

"In the name of the Father, the Son and the holy Spirit"
--------------- is the same as -----------------
"In the name of the Father, the Son and the holy Spirit OF God"


Do you recall the very well-known passage in Eph. 4:30? It says: "And grieve not the holy Spirit OF God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

So explicit: that there is only one "HOLY SPIRIT." WHOSE spirit, B? God's Spirit which is HOLY. Thank our Lord God that it is HIS spirit which is holy, instead of a spirit that is evil.[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

April 16th, 2013, 3:43 am #40

The Holy Spirit Comforter or Paraclete of John 14 is named

1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father,
.....Jesus Christ the righteous:


God the ONE SPIRIT breathes on the Son and the Son articulates His Words.
Because the WORDS come from the ONE SPIRIT then they are from God because neither "spirit" nor "son" speak on their own.
When God's Words are spoken, validated and witnessed they become SPIRIT for us.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
.....the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Jesus SPOKE the Words but He denies that He THOUGHT the Words.

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, [A holy spirit: ours]
.....and ye know all things.
1John 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth,
.....but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?
.....He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.


The ONE God made Jesus of NAZARETH to be both His Lord and Christ.
Therefore "Lord and Christ and Son" are not part of the ONE GOD.

.....Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,
........that God [the holy ONE]
........hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified,
........both Lord and Christ.

1Timothy 2:5 For there is one God,
........and one mediator between God and men,
........the MAN Christ Jesus;


There is just one SON and one FATHER the Almighty.
The Father gave the Son his own power because we do not HEAR the Father.
Therefore, people are ANTI-christs because to deny that Jesus is SON and not the ALMIGHTY
denies one the power to acknowledged the ONE God the Father.

1John 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:
.....(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

1John 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you,
.....which ye have heard from the beginning.
.....If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you,
.....ye also shall continue IN the Son, and IN the Father.
1John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.


If you deny that you do not have eternal life according to John.

God is not BINARY either. There is just ONE God and there can be no more.
God spoke through the PROPHETS but now in the LAST DAYS He speaks
Through His SON.

If our relationship is with the Father then we can grasp the Spirit OF God.
If our relationship is with the Son then we can grasp the Spirit OF the Son.
This is why John does not speak of being IN or in relationship with a separated Holy Spirit god person.
If you deny the Father (deity) - Son (filled with deity) relationship then John says that you are a ANTI-christ.

If you say it doesn't matter then it just doesn't matter</font>
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