"The Holy Spirit Movement": Biblical-Campbell AntiTrinity

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

December 7th, 2016, 4:37 pm #41

Contrary to the false accusations who say that "Alexander Campbell said he didn't object to the trinity but only the jargon" the REAL Campbell gives numerous reasons for rejecting the trinity because it was ANTI-Biblical and even ANTI-Christian since he said that they fail to give Jesus the MAN credit for what He did.

http://www.piney.com/HsACTrin.html

David Young and the North Boulevard slander existing Churches of Christ and plans to begin PLANTING 60,000 groups founded on The Discipling Dilemma.

http://www.piney.com/David.Young.The.Di ... lemma.html

We have noted that we pretended too long that the Progressive Churches build on the missional pattern (Apostles and Prophets not to be questioned." Their Unity in Diversity means that WE will IMPOSE the Diversity and you must get over it or get out of your house. These people try to restructure the personality to enable one to be a good cult member: Scripture calls that witchcraft or Sorcery and it denies the Power of the Gospel already formed into songs and sermons and PATTERN for A School of the Word only. Cancers Grow but the LITTLE FLOCK will be despised and cast out of theirown synagogue. It is no longer lying when you become Purpose Driven to LIE IN WAIT TO DECEIVE.<b></b>

Musical instruments in making war were INTENDED to make the lambs dumb so you can SET AMBUSH.

David Young In Step With The Holy Spirit best illustrates the PostBiblical, postmodern view that Existing Churches cannot appeal to the post-computer youth. In fact, the youth have usually bailed out very young because they are demeaned by the "spirit of entertainment" and fail to have any coherent knowledge of the Scriptures men are hired to teach as that ONE PIECE PATTERN for the Church. This is a Movement fed by Spiritual Formation including Lectio-Divina. This includes IGNATIAN MEDITATIONS rejecting the rational or LOGOS and claiming that by meditating on one thought or word "a" spirit will tell them what the text means. That makes the same text Jesus spoke obsolete. For instance:

http://www.piney.com/David.Young.Walkin ... pirit.html

David Young and the Elders mock the old "Modern" Churches of Christ for teaching that the Baptism of the Spirit was promised only to the ELEVEN in the upper room. The 40 days of prayer which God poured on Israel is a TEST but is used to ENFORCE the notion that a SPIRIT person is going to affirm their hidden agenda.

First claim which Scripture calls UNtrue Jesus Christ is fully God and fully human. He is the eternal Son of God who took on humanity in order to save us.

You couldn't have read the Word by READING the Word as the "free water of the Word"

They refute the Epistles other than to reject the "traditional understanding.

The Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God who personally dwells in believers for the sake of transforming them into Jesus’ likeness. He transforms us by convicting us of sin, producing fruit in us, giving us gifts for service, marking us as believers, and, in general, leading us to follow the will of God.

God poured out Spirit ON the Eleven and then Paul: Spirit is WORD for those who articulate it. "Poured our" is the root of Rhema which is the spoken LOGOS: its root is from Flowing Water.

But to the trinitarians the father is god, the son is god and the holy spirit is God. However, Holy means pure and not contaminated: God is WHOLLY Spirit without flesh and blood. Spirit literally means WIND but it is used figuratively of the BREATH of God. God as the Spirit OF Christ breathed on the prophets: God defined the REST for the godly Jews and for everyone AFTER the Jewish clergy as Priests and Levites were defunded: God makes covenants with the LAITY and never with Priests or Levites.

We want to be FULL of the Spirit. The Holy Spirit inspired the apostles and prophets, and the Word of God is a fundamental tool of the Holy Spirit. (Genesis 1:2; Ezekiel 36:26-27; Joel 2:28-29; Matthew 3:11; John 3:6-8; 14:15-17; Acts 2:14-39; Romans 8; 1 Corinthians 6:19; 2 Corinthians 3:1-17; Galatians 5:22-23; Ephesians 1:13; Colossians 1:9)

This is the ANTITHESIS of what Jesus said:

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the WORDS that I SPEAK unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Eph. 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the WILL [commands] of the Lord is.
Eph. 5:18 And be not drunk [fluted down] with wine, wherein is excess; but be FILLED with the Spirit;

The exact Parallel to Colossae and us:

Col. 3:16 Let the WORD of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace IN your hearts to the Lord.

As promised, Jesus having received the PROMISE or ROLE as Holy Spirit (breath) returned on Pentecost and "poured out what you see and hear."

Matt. 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father:
and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father;
neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son,
and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

The SPIRIT or Breath was God the Father. The Word or Revelation is what Jesus Speaks. Jesus in Spirit and not another god person "guided the Apostles into ALL truth." Peter said that the memory he was leaving was not subject to private interpretation or further expounding: that would DENY that God breath truth in the Prophets and made them more certain ONLY by Jesus Christ.

To say that the Spirit OF God or His BREATH is one of the THREE GODS denies that only Jesus as Son speaks for the Father and there is not A SECOND intercessor.

1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his WORD, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

The WORD is the LOGOS or Regulative Principle of god and not another "god" person: Logos is opposite to Rhetoric, singing, playing instruments, acting, personal opinions or personal experiences. Christ said of those who do not SPEAK the Word THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM

The Kairos Church Planting Plot denies that existing Churches of Christ are competent for the AFTER COMPUTER era and they will use YOUR money to plant up to 60,000 new groups which will follow the Worship Team-Instrumental pattern. That's fine: I have noted that the only PERSONIFIED SPIRIT is Abaddon or Apollon who is the Leader of the Muses.

Judas as the Son of Perdition means that he is the son of Apollon-abaddon. Kairos time is the right time to launch an attack. Kairos is hermes, mercury the ANTI Christ Logos of the pagans including the Jews "turned over to worship the starry host." Self-Pleasure outlawed in Romans 1 because this was REPROACHING Jesus or EXPOSING HIS NAKEDNESS. Judas is well documented on "Vessels of Clay" for the readers: The Judas bag or box--he was a thief--is always attached to a flute-case.

This is a picture representing David going naked with the girls and what God sees in horrors as Jesus returns and removes the Lamps (seven spirits) as well as the singers and instrument players from His Book of Life. They seem to have been excluded because they HAD deceived thw whole world once.

This is why up to half of the paying audience flees: if you are "growing" then do a body count and see that most of the faithful have been raptured out.



John Calvin Institutes 1-9.

http://www.piney.com/Calvin-Institutes-1-9.html

The inability to read John Calvin accounts for many false teachings by "scholars" who have never read John Calvin. The concept of "faith only" is gleaned from Calvinist's writings and not from Calvin. Speaking of adult baptism, Alexander Campbell said that Calvin could be a Campbellite.

The need for a direct operation of the Spirit of God before we can believe is because Calvin said that one supernatural gift is supplying Holy Scripture. The Spirit does not work if those who claim to be evangelists do not GO and preach the Word.

Last edited by Ken.Sublett on December 7th, 2016, 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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December 7th, 2016, 10:00 pm #42

Absolutely amazing!

Campbell before Campbell!

The Word of God trumps the imaginations of men.

The pristine Word is greater than ecclesiastical hierarchies.

The Word is even greater than denominational loyalties.

Pretentious aspirants of Spirit Indwelling put in their place by the Written Word!
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

December 7th, 2016, 11:20 pm #43

Alexander faulted John Calvin for being trinitarian. However, someone convinced Calvin without getting hurt and he spoke of the Three ASPECTS of God. He also speaks of the Spirit being what enabled the Written text but it is not always easy to understand his full theology.

Jesus said "my words are spirit and Live" John 6:63 so it is clear that Spirit or Mind of God is included in the Words and they have power to make spiritual life in the believer.

The Campbell's were Calvinists without what is called the TULIP and their understanding of Restoration had nothing to do with those rooted in the Christians-Methodists-Anglicans-Catholics. Restoration would happen if you just strip off everything not commanded nor required.

http://www.piney.com/Calvin-Reform-1.html

He wrote to

At the request of Bucer Calvin utilized the occasion of the fourth Diet of Speyer assembled by Charles V in February, 1544, to address to the Emperor a "Supplicatory Remonstrance" in reference to a General Council of the Church after the manner of the Early Church. It was also a powerful justification of the Reformation, and it met with considerable success in its impact upon the Diet and in confirming the Emperor in his tolerance toward the movement for reform.

THE NECESSITY OF REFORMING THE CHURCH.
TO THE MOST INVINCIBLE EMPEROR CHARLES V.,
AND THE MOST ILLUSTRIOUS PRINCES AND OTHER ORDERS, NOW HOLDING
A DIET OF THE EMPIRE AT SPIRES,
A HUMBLE EXHORTATION
SERIOUSLY TO UNDERTAKE THE TASK OF RESTORING THE CHURCH.
PRESENTED IN THE NAME OF ALL THOSE WHO WISH CHRIST TO REIGN.
AUGUST EMPEROR,

You have summoned this Diet, that, in Concert with the Most Illustrious Princes and other Orders of the Empire, you may at length deliberate and decide upon the means of ameliorating the present condition of the Church, which we all see to be very miserable, and almost desperate. Now, therefore, while you are seated at this consultation, I humbly beg and implore, first of your Imperial Majesty, and at the same time of you also, Most Illustrious Princes, and distinguished Personages, that you will not decline to read, and diligently ponder, what I have to lay before you. The magnitude and weightiness of the cause may well excite in you an eagerness to hear, and I will set the matter so plainly in your view, that you can have no difficulty in determining what course to adopt. Whoever I am, I here profess to plead in defence, both of sound doctrine and of the Church. In this character I seem at all events entitled to expect that you will not deny me audience until such time as it may appear whether I falsely usurp the character, or whether I faithfully perform its duties, and make good what I profess. But though I feel that I am by no means equal to so great a task, I am not at all afraid, that after you have heard the nature of my office, I shall be accused either of folly or presumption in having ventured thus to appear before you. There are two circumstances by which men are wont to recommend, or at least to justify, their conduct. If a thing is done honestly, and from pious zeal, we deem it worthy of praise; if it is done under the pressure of public necessity, we at least deem it not unworthy of excuse. Since both of these apply here, I am confident, from your equity, that I shall easily obtain your approval of my design.

For where can I exert myself to better purpose or more honestly, where, too, in a matter at this time more necessary, than in attempting, according to my ability, to aid the Church of Chris, whose claims it is unlawful in any instance to deny, and which is now in grievous distress, and in extreme danger?

But there is no occasion for a long preface concerning myself. Receive what I say as you would do if it were pronounced by the united voice

of all those who either have already taken care to restore the Church,
or are desirous that it should be restored to true order.


I have spent lots of time trying to "unpeal" Calvin: it is very difficult to understand whether Calvin or his enemies are speaking. There are several Reformed groups which reject instrumental music and some of the best documents are written by Presbyterians.

The apostates claim that basing church on commands, examples or inferences was INVENTED only after the Church of Christ REFUSED to be cast out of their own synagogue. However, that principle is well documented in Scripture and by all founders of religious groups.

Moreover, the rule which distinguishes between pure and vitiated worship is of universal application,

in order that we may not adopt any device which seems fit to ourselves,
but look to the injunctions of Him who alone is entitled to prescribe.

Therefore, if we would have Him to approve our worship, this rule, which he everywhere enforces with the utmost strictness, must be carefully observed. For there is a twofold reason why the Lord, in condemning and prohibiting all fictitious worship, requires us to give obedience only to his own voice.

First, it tends greatly to establish His authority that we do not follow our own pleasure, but depend entirely on his sovereignty; and, secondly, such is our folly, that when we are left at liberty, all we are able to do is to go astray.

And then when once we have turned aside from the right path, there is no end to our wanderings, until we get buried under a multitude of superstitions.

Justly, therefore, does the Lord, in order to assert his full right of dominion, strictly enjoin what he wishes us to do, and at once reject all human devices which are at variance with his command.

Justly, too, does he, in express terms, define our limits, that we may not, by fabricating perverse modes of worship, provoke His anger against us.

I know how difficult it is to persuade the world that God disapproves of all modes of worship not expressly sanctioned by His Word.

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

December 23rd, 2016, 11:34 pm #44

Contrary to the false accusations who say that "Alexander Campbell said he didn't object to the trinity but only the jargon" the REAL Campbell gives numerous reasons for rejecting the trinity because it was ANTI-Biblical and even ANTI-Christian since he said that they fail to give Jesus the MAN credit for what He did.

http://www.piney.com/HsACTrin.html

David Young and the North Boulevard slander existing Churches of Christ and plans to begin PLANTING 60,000 groups founded on The Discipling Dilemma.

http://www.piney.com/David.Young.The.Di ... lemma.html

We have noted that we pretended too long that the Progressive Churches build on the missional pattern (Apostles and Prophets not to be questioned." Their Unity in Diversity means that WE will IMPOSE the Diversity and you must get over it or get out of your house. These people try to restructure the personality to enable one to be a good cult member: Scripture calls that witchcraft or Sorcery and it denies the Power of the Gospel already formed into songs and sermons and PATTERN for A School of the Word only. Cancers Grow but the LITTLE FLOCK will be despised and cast out of theirown synagogue. It is no longer lying when you become Purpose Driven to LIE IN WAIT TO DECEIVE.<b></b>

Musical instruments in making war were INTENDED to make the lambs dumb so you can SET AMBUSH.

David Young In Step With The Holy Spirit best illustrates the PostBiblical, postmodern view that Existing Churches cannot appeal to the post-computer youth. In fact, the youth have usually bailed out very young because they are demeaned by the "spirit of entertainment" and fail to have any coherent knowledge of the Scriptures men are hired to teach as that ONE PIECE PATTERN for the Church. This is a Movement fed by Spiritual Formation including Lectio-Divina. This includes IGNATIAN MEDITATIONS rejecting the rational or LOGOS and claiming that by meditating on one thought or word "a" spirit will tell them what the text means. That makes the same text Jesus spoke obsolete. For instance:

http://www.piney.com/David.Young.Walkin ... pirit.html

David Young and the Elders mock the old "Modern" Churches of Christ for teaching that the Baptism of the Spirit was promised only to the ELEVEN in the upper room. The 40 days of prayer which God poured on Israel is a TEST but is used to ENFORCE the notion that a SPIRIT person is going to affirm their hidden agenda.

First claim which Scripture calls UNtrue Jesus Christ is fully God and fully human. He is the eternal Son of God who took on humanity in order to save us.

You couldn't have read the Word by READING the Word as the "free water of the Word"

They refute the Epistles other than to reject the "traditional understanding.

The Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God who personally dwells in believers for the sake of transforming them into Jesus’ likeness. He transforms us by convicting us of sin, producing fruit in us, giving us gifts for service, marking us as believers, and, in general, leading us to follow the will of God.

God poured out Spirit ON the Eleven and then Paul: Spirit is WORD for those who articulate it. "Poured our" is the root of Rhema which is the spoken LOGOS: its root is from Flowing Water.

But to the trinitarians the father is god, the son is god and the holy spirit is God. However, Holy means pure and not contaminated: God is WHOLLY Spirit without flesh and blood. Spirit literally means WIND but it is used figuratively of the BREATH of God. God as the Spirit OF Christ breathed on the prophets: God defined the REST for the godly Jews and for everyone AFTER the Jewish clergy as Priests and Levites were defunded: God makes covenants with the LAITY and never with Priests or Levites.

We want to be FULL of the Spirit. The Holy Spirit inspired the apostles and prophets, and the Word of God is a fundamental tool of the Holy Spirit. (Genesis 1:2; Ezekiel 36:26-27; Joel 2:28-29; Matthew 3:11; John 3:6-8; 14:15-17; Acts 2:14-39; Romans 8; 1 Corinthians 6:19; 2 Corinthians 3:1-17; Galatians 5:22-23; Ephesians 1:13; Colossians 1:9)

This is the ANTITHESIS of what Jesus said:

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the WORDS that I SPEAK unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Eph. 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the WILL [commands] of the Lord is.
Eph. 5:18 And be not drunk [fluted down] with wine, wherein is excess; but be FILLED with the Spirit;

The exact Parallel to Colossae and us:

Col. 3:16 Let the WORD of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace IN your hearts to the Lord.

As promised, Jesus having received the PROMISE or ROLE as Holy Spirit (breath) returned on Pentecost and "poured out what you see and hear."

Matt. 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father:
and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father;
neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son,
and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

The SPIRIT or Breath was God the Father. The Word or Revelation is what Jesus Speaks. Jesus in Spirit and not another god person "guided the Apostles into ALL truth." Peter said that the memory he was leaving was not subject to private interpretation or further expounding: that would DENY that God breath truth in the Prophets and made them more certain ONLY by Jesus Christ.

To say that the Spirit OF God or His BREATH is one of the THREE GODS denies that only Jesus as Son speaks for the Father and there is not A SECOND intercessor.

1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his WORD, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

The WORD is the LOGOS or Regulative Principle of god and not another "god" person: Logos is opposite to Rhetoric, singing, playing instruments, acting, personal opinions or personal experiences. Christ said of those who do not SPEAK the Word THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM

The Kairos Church Planting Plot denies that existing Churches of Christ are competent for the AFTER COMPUTER era and they will use YOUR money to plant up to 60,000 new groups which will follow the Worship Team-Instrumental pattern. That's fine: I have noted that the only PERSONIFIED SPIRIT is Abaddon or Apollon who is the Leader of the Muses.

Judas as the Son of Perdition means that he is the son of Apollon-abaddon. Kairos time is the right time to launch an attack. Kairos is hermes, mercury the ANTI Christ Logos of the pagans including the Jews "turned over to worship the starry host." Self-Pleasure outlawed in Romans 1 because this was REPROACHING Jesus or EXPOSING HIS NAKEDNESS. Judas is well documented on "Vessels of Clay" for the readers: The Judas bag or box--he was a thief--is always attached to a flute-case.

This is a picture representing David going naked with the girls and what God sees in horrors as Jesus returns and removes the Lamps (seven spirits) as well as the singers and instrument players from His Book of Life. They seem to have been excluded because they HAD deceived thw whole world once.

This is why up to half of the paying audience flees: if you are "growing" then do a body count and see that most of the faithful have been raptured out.



None of the creeds nor historic statements about the trinity are as radical and Bible-devoid as that always and still promoted by LU and "invented" by H. Leo Boles in 1938 as the CREED of Lipscomb and the Gospel Advocate. Theophilus and then Tertullian were the first to define the "complex" nature of the singular God. We have often quoted from several chapters of John and Donnie has again tried to call them to our attention. Dogma is always produced by a rejection of the context of Scripture and it is probably that those coming out of "liberal" universities have never had the urge or need to be Disciples of Christ who by definition attend what Scripture and the Campbells called A School of Christ in the Word.

Note that God's WORD is His Son but is not another person.



<font face="arial" size="4">Away, then, with those "Antichrists who deny the Father and the Son." For they deny the Father, when they say that He is the same as the Son; and they deny the Son, when they suppose Him to be the same as the Father, by assigning to Them things which are not Theirs, and taking away from Them things which are Theirs. But "whosoever shall confess that (Jesus) Christ is the Son of God" (not the Father), "God dwells in him, and he in God." We believe not the testimony of God in which He testifies to us of His Son. "He that has not the Son, has not life." And that man has not the Son, who believes Him to be any other than the Son.
</font>
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December 27th, 2016, 4:17 pm #45

Here is a passage that refers to an unclean spirit as "it." Matthew 12:43-45.

Couple this with "the elemental spirits of the universe" in Galatians 4:3.

Add to that the fact that when we cry out to God "Abba, Father" or have complete trust in Him, then God has sent into our hearts the Spirit of his Son. Galatians 4:6.

There is very likely a difference in manifestation between the Spirit of the Father and the Spirit of His Son, although there is one Spirit. Ephesians 4:4.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 2nd, 2017, 3:26 am #46

Translating the word WIND or BREATH as a GHOST probably led to the confusion. The historic trinitarians did not introduce the confusion. The problem with the Holy Spirit as a separate PEOPLE in addition to the Spirit OF God or the Spirit OF Christ is that people driven into strong delusions may believe but certainly us the claim that THEY are instructed by "a" spirit "beyond the sacred pages." they do not give you the same right to use intimidation so that whatever they imagine or WISH is able to fool too many people most of the time.

Num. 5:30 Or when the spirit OF jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the LORD, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law.

h7307. ruwach, roo´-akh; from 7306; WIND;
.....by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or even violent) exhalation;
.....figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality;
.....by extension, a region of the sky;
.....by resemblance spirit, but only OF a rational being (including its expression and functions):—
air, anger, blast, breath, x cool, courage, mind, x quarter, x side, spirit((-ual)), tempest, x vain, ((whirl-))wind(-y).

7306. ruwach, roo´-akh; a primitive root;
.....properly, to blow, i.e. breathe;
.....only (literally) to smell
.....or (by implication, perceive (figuratively, to anticipate, enjoy):—accept, smell, x touch, make of quick understanding.

The literal word is WIND: by analogy only something that can be related to WIND. Spirit is never a "people" but the mind, breath, mental disposition OF a person. We cannot see or smell these and should not make any quality into a separate person about the size of Jesus. In the progressive teaching the "spirit" is superior because--thinking of spirit as a person--"he" enables Jesus in everything He says or does.

God is holy meaning WHOLLY or Pure Spirit or Mind: Jesus says that a spirit does not have flesh and bones. Therefore, it would be irrational to try to make the Mind, Breath and resulting Words into an IDOL like a human.

Humans are Body (including brain)
Soul or Live and
Spirit or Mind which is our real SELF. Science does not understand much but that the Mind of a person is not flesh and bones.

Eccl. 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 2nd, 2017, 4:02 pm #47

It is really sad when God will not let one read BLACK text on BROWN paper. If someone says I AM and the stops, the logical question is "I am WHAT?"

Ex. 3:6 Moreover he said, I AM
I am WHO?
the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

People prove the STRONG DELUSION Mark when they cannot make it to the PUNCH LINE.

And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
Jesus always said I AM the SON of God. Moses understood that god said that I AM the God of the Fathers. Moses was not neutered by a postmodern theology degree.

Ex. 3:13 And Moses said unto God
Jesus always said I AM the SON of God.
Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them,
The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me,
What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

Ex. 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM:


The God words are generic and the only way to identify the ONE GOD THE FATHER is to associate Him with persons and events. God

Jesus never said I AM THAT I AM: the God of the fathers.

and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel,
I AM hath sent me unto you.


I AM WHO? The rest of the message of I AM THAT I AM. Why not give God enough time to COMPLETE His message?

Ex. 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses,
Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel,
The LORD--God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob,
hath sent me unto you: THIS IS MY NAME for ever,
and this is my memorial unto all generations.


God said that I AM the Lord-God of the Fathers: I AM is not His Name.

What is His NAME? "The Lord-God (Jehovah the only real El) of your fathers.

God said I AM the God of ABRAHAM. Jesus was of the SPERM of Abraham. Therefore, Jesus was not the I AM the God of Abraham.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


People claim that Jesus was too ignorant to say that I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM.

The high priest proves that Jesus was NOT claiming to be God.

Matt. 26:62 And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
Matt. 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him,
I adjure thee by the living God,
that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Matt. 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you,
Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man<b> sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven</b>


The God Who is I AM the God of the fathers made Jesus TO BE both Lord and Christ.

God DENIED that He was the Son of Man.

Num. 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 2nd, 2017, 10:26 pm #48

Matthew Henry: And now let who will deny him to be essentially God at their peril, but let us own and honour him as God; for, if he had not been God, he had never been FIT to have done the Mediator’s work nor to have worn the Mediator’s crown.

Dave is probably misquoting Henry because that would would make him DESPISE the Word of God which is the Latin BLASPHEME.

1Tim. 2:5 For there is ONE God, and ONE mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus;

Rom. 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was MADE of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom. 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Heb. 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb. 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the BLOOD of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


God doesn't BLEED: God AND Jesus proves that Jesus is NOT God.

Heb. 1:4 Being MADE so much BETTER than the angels,
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
as he HATH by inheritance OBTAINED a more excellent name than they.


If Jesus was the subject of the QUOTATION wouldn't that make Paul and God unlearned to say that Jesus was MADE better than the angels. god the Father or Lord-God or Jehovah-the true ELOHIM.

Heb. 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time,
.....Thou art my Son, THIS DAY have I begotten thee?
.....And again, I will be TO HIM a Father,
.....and he shall be TO ME a Son?
Heb. 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world,
.....he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Heb. 1:7 And of the angels he saith,
.....Who maketh his angels SPIRITS, and his ministers a flame of FIRE.


Donnie made it through reading and correctly understands that the throne is GOD'S

Heb. 1:8 But unto the Son he saith,
....."Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever:
.....a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."


This is a quotation:
Psa. 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
Psa. 45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness:
.....therefore God, THY God,
.....hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Lam. 5:19 Thou, O LORD, remainest for ever; THY throne from generation to generation.

Notice that this is not the AGE to save everyone in our ecumenical church: this is the age reserved for fire. This church age is a hostile battle against the WORLD ORDER so don't expect that you can SAVE everyone if we give you enough money.

When Jesus was resurrected He first sat on the throne of the Kingdom: He will NOT sit on GOD'S throne when the kingdom ends.

The Throne of Jesus the SON was not for ever and ever:

1Cor. 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have DELIVERED up the kingdom to God,
.....even the Father; when he shall have
.....put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Cor. 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him,
..... then shall the SON also himself
.....be subject unto him that put all things under him,
.....that GOD may be all in all

Heb. 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness,
.....and hated iniquity; therefore God, even THY God,
.....hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

G5548. chrio, khree´-o; probably akin to 5530 through the idea of contact; to smear or rub with oil, i.e. (by implication) to consecrate to an office or religious service: — anoint.

Heb. 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth;
.....and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
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Dave
Dave

January 3rd, 2017, 1:22 am #49

Man, Ken, you and Donnie are making it easy for me today.
You quoted Henry's best part
Matthew Henry: And now let who will deny him to be essentially God at their peril, but let us own and honour him as God; for, if he had not been God, he had never been FIT to have done the Mediator’s work nor to have worn the Mediator’s crown."

Henry is saying that you can't deny that Jesus is God and doing so would put you in heap big trouble with God. AT THE SAME TIME....Henry makes sure that if Jesus had not been God then Jesus could not have been able to BE the Great Mediator between man and God.

Thanks Ken!

One more thing.....God did not BLEED, as you put it. Jesus took the physical form and took on the pain and anguish and the physical death. When Jesus BLED and DIED, who hurt the most? The proof? The earthquakes and dead men walking and the temple veil being torn. It shows that God did not bleed, but was hurting just the same. Jesus was a part of God, and thus the overwhelming pain.

Again, you may not have even know that you did a good work, but God uses the wicked to do his will also.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 3rd, 2017, 2:11 am #50

You cannot enter or see the kingdom if you do not have "A" holy spirit (yours says Campbell).

And I am saying that you or Henry contradict Scripture:

1Tim. 2:5 For there is ONE God, and ONE mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus;


READ CAREFULLY. The word and or KAI proves that the Man Jesus is NOT God.

You say that Jesus COULD NOT be the mediator IF He was a man.
Paul says that the MAN Christ Jesus is the ONE mediator.
Shall we trust Henry? Shall We trust Paul whom Jesus promised to "guide him into all truth"?

G3316. mesites, mes-ee´-tace; from 3319; a go-between, i.e. (simply) an internunciator, or (by implication) a reconciler (intercessor): — mediator.

1Pet. 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

g4317 Prosago to conduct hear, to approach God.

Do you and Henry say that Jesus couldn't "bring us into the presence of God" UNLESS He was God. Well, the musical worship team CLAIMS that they can do that. Why isn't Jesus who suffered THAT He might bring us close able to do that WITHOUT being god? He who BRINGS is not the GOD into whose presence He brings US if we have a holy spirit after baptism with OUR spirits translated into the heavenly kingdom."

Rom. 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was MADE of the seed of David according to the flesh;


Shall we believe he and thee or shall we believe Paul?

Now, all I know is what I read in the Bible and Henry missed something.

If Jesus says that He was-is the SON of God
And you say that Jesus WAS God
Isn't that a contradiction?

In Jeremiah 23:

If you say that God said or commanded something
And God did NOT say something
Despising in latin is BLASPHEMY.

Jer. 23:17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

g5006. na}ats, naw-ats´; a primitive root; to scorn; or (Ecclesiastes 12:5) by interchange for 5132, to bloom:—abhor, (give occasion to) blaspheme, contemn, despise, flourish, x great, provoke.

Lipscomb can teach you how to use YOUR IMAGINATION to fill in the blanks which God apparently left for them to fill.


Last edited by Ken.Sublett on January 3rd, 2017, 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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