The Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20)

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 15th, 2016, 4:11 am #31

Threads always get sidetracked!!

Name is singular: Father, Son and Spirit are not names. All authority is vested in the NAME of Jesus. Peter heard Jesus and commanded:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the [A] Holy Ghost.


A holy spirit (ours) is the same as A good conscience or consciousness in 1 Peter 3:21. Alexander Campbell and Walter Scott understood that it was OUR spirit which was UNholy and after baptism we have A holy spirit.

Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Acts 4:18 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.

Col. 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord [Kurios] Jesus, giving thanks to God [Theos] and the Father by him.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins,calling on the name of the Lord.


It does not say NAMES but NAME: baptizing in the three names and leaving out the name JESUS does not appear in the Bible or early history before the trinitarian confusion. Then, logically, they baptized or sprinkled three times.

The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus is the FORM or TUPOS. In baptism we obey a FORM or ANTI-TUPOS of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. So, it is also logical that we are baptized in the NAME of Jesus Christ.

I am not aware that anyone ever pronounced a "formula" over the candidate so the requirement is that we "believe that Jesus is the SON of the living GOD."

Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and HE baptized HIM.

Last edited by Ken.Sublett on October 15th, 2016, 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bill
Bill

October 15th, 2016, 5:02 am #32

I am not confused about how my original post about The Great Commission digressed so quickly. However, how is Ken talking about there only being God the Father and Jesus the Son, when in The Great Commission recorded in Matthew 28:18-20, Jesus references baptizing disciples "in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" - does He not?
Since, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not names, the phrase "in the name of" obviously means "by the authority of," just as the phrase "in the name of the law" that police officers use means "by the authority of the law." Thus, we are to be baptized in the name of (that is, by the authority of) the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Donnie and Ken believe that Father and Son are two separate heavenly entities and that the Holy Spirit is not a separate entity but is the Spirit of God (and of Jesus too, I suppose). Thus, although they are loathe to admit it, Donnie and Ken believe in a so-called "Binity." On the other hand, Trinitarians believe that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate heavenly entities or a "Trinity." Thus, the only difference between Binitarians (Binity) and Trinitarians (Trinity) is the number of different entities in which they believe.

I believe that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all manifestations of One God. So there are certainly different interpretations of how the Godhead is arranged. The most important thing to consider is not how the Godhead is arranged (three in one or one in three, etc.) but to believe in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, that they exist, that they are.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

October 15th, 2016, 3:33 pm #33

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Neither "Binity" nor "Trinity."

Let the Scripture explain:

"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." (I Corinthians 8:6, KJV)

One God the Father, Bill. That is not "Binity."

One Son of God Jesus Christ, Bill. That is not "Binity."

The HOLY (adjective) spirit (improper noun) OF (preposition: belonging to) God is not a person, Bill.

Just so this post is not too long for you to ignore, the salutations in the epistles from Romans to Jude mention: (1) God the Father AND (2) His Son Jesus Christ -- proving that God's spirit did NOT GREET churches and individual Christians. Here are a few of many passages:[/color]
Gal.1 [1] ... but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead....

Eph.6 [23] Peace ... from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Thes.1 [1] ... in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace....

There are numerous passages with similar salutations.
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Bill
Bill

October 15th, 2016, 3:51 pm #34

Since Donnie and Ken believe that Jesus is not God, but that God and Jesus are two separate, distinct heavenly entities (and that the Holy Spirit is not a separate entity), then they obviously believe in a "Binity." They have the right to believe in a Binity, no matter how much they deny it on the surface. Of course, we know better.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

October 15th, 2016, 4:34 pm #35

I am not confused about how my original post about The Great Commission digressed so quickly. However, how is Ken talking about there only being God the Father and Jesus the Son, when in The Great Commission recorded in Matthew 28:18-20, Jesus references baptizing disciples "in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" - does He not?
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Stan, know that we welcome you to this discussion forum and your participation.

There are excellent documented materials out there regarding the mention of "in the name of Father, Son, Holy Spirit" [mentioned only once in the entire Bible] versus the mention of "in the name of Jesus Christ" in NUMEROUS passages from the New Testament.

We must take into consideration also the manuscripts (original or not or non-existent at the time) and timing, such as what Eusebius (c. 260—c. 340) quoted in reference to "in the name of"; the Council of Nicea and the emperor Constantine in the 4th century; etc.

Since your thread is about Matthew 28:18-20, I find it appropriate and not a diversion to discuss "in the name of" in baptism. But let's all keep in mind that there are numerous passages that specifically mention "in the name of Jesus Christ." There are, really!!! That's not to say that Matt. 28 is wrong, but there's no evidence in the passage to prove the man-concocted Trinity Creed.[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

October 15th, 2016, 4:41 pm #36

Since Donnie and Ken believe that Jesus is not God, but that God and Jesus are two separate, distinct heavenly entities (and that the Holy Spirit is not a separate entity), then they obviously believe in a "Binity." They have the right to believe in a Binity, no matter how much they deny it on the surface. Of course, we know better.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill,

I don't know how else can the Scripture explain it to you that "there is only ONE God the Father" -- that certainly excludes "the Son of God" and other gods. One God, Bill. That is not "Binity."

I just quoted a few of many passages. Simple and self-explanatory! Even those you reject. [/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 15th, 2016, 4:46 pm #37

Since Donnie and Ken believe that Jesus is not God, but that God and Jesus are two separate, distinct heavenly entities (and that the Holy Spirit is not a separate entity), then they obviously believe in a "Binity." They have the right to believe in a Binity, no matter how much they deny it on the surface. Of course, we know better.
Bill:Since Donnie and Ken believe that Jesus is not God, but that God and Jesus are two separate, distinct heavenly entities (and that the Holy Spirit is not a separate entity), then they obviously believe in a "Binity." They have the right to believe in a Binity, no matter how much they deny it on the surface. Of course, we know better.

Nope: Ken doesn't get the authority to "believe" unless it shows up in the text:

1Tim. 2:5 For there is one God,
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
and one mediator between God and men,
.....the MAN Christ Jesus;


Don't let it bother you that you nor most later-day theologians cannot grasp that verse.

There is UNUS one, a single God.
There is UNUS one Mediator
He is the MAN Homo a human opposite to a woman
God does not have flesh and blood
Jesus has flesh and blood.
The prophecy and demand was that a MAN and a BROTHER confront the Devil and defeat him.
Jesus was crucified: God cannot be crucified.
Jesus called God His Father so why insult His inspiring Spirit or BREATH only to the Apostles and NOT to any man if he prays for 400 days.

Eph. 4:4 There is one [unum] body, and one [unus] Spirit,
.....even as ye are called in one [uno] hope of your calling;
Eph. 4:5 One Lord [unus Kurios], one faith, one baptism,
Eph. 4:6 One [unus Theos] God and Father of all,
.....who is above ALL, and through all, and in you all.


God [Theos] the Father is above ALL including the MAN Jesus as Lord [Kurios]
Jesus was not eternally Lord: God made him TO BE both Lord and Christ neither of which are deity words.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one

My Father who is GREATER than I are UNITED to prevent the Jews from pitting Jesus against God.

My father and I are UNUM all together, unanimously, to a man, without exception: into one, to one place, together: Of that which is common to several persons or things, one and the same. “unius modi,” id. Univ. 7.—Esp., uno ore, with one voice, all together, unanimously: in one and the same place, at the same time, in company, together: at the same time, along with him

The Father is the ONE GOD
The Son is ONE MAN
Father breathes (spirit) the ONLY available information and NO MAN can hear Him. NO MAN.
The Son Jesus of Nazareth articulates the invisible breath through His double-edged sword or lips.
Only the Little Flock, The WAY that is called the SECT, poor and powerless can hear or read the message "left for OUR memory."
Jesus as Holy Spirit is still King and sole TEACHER over His little flock.</font>
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 15th, 2016, 4:54 pm #38

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Stan, know that we welcome you to this discussion forum and your participation.

There are excellent documented materials out there regarding the mention of "in the name of Father, Son, Holy Spirit" [mentioned only once in the entire Bible] versus the mention of "in the name of Jesus Christ" in NUMEROUS passages from the New Testament.

We must take into consideration also the manuscripts (original or not or non-existent at the time) and timing, such as what Eusebius (c. 260—c. 340) quoted in reference to "in the name of"; the Council of Nicea and the emperor Constantine in the 4th century; etc.

Since your thread is about Matthew 28:18-20, I find it appropriate and not a diversion to discuss "in the name of" in baptism. But let's all keep in mind that there are numerous passages that specifically mention "in the name of Jesus Christ." There are, really!!! That's not to say that Matt. 28 is wrong, but there's no evidence in the passage to prove the man-concocted Trinity Creed.[/color]
And many able scholars say that the expression "father, son and Spirit" is the only even close to a hint that God is triplets.

If you GO into all the world and command to teach and observe what Jesus commanded to be taught it isn't fair to collect other passages to get Him to say that he was Lord-God. It may minimize the knowledge of the Bible recorders not to define the very modern tritheism maybe invented out of LU.

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 15th, 2016, 8:20 pm #39

It is true: the Great Commission may have many institutions chasing their tails if they don't grasp that ALL authority vested in pagan religions of triads or families of triads, I am not sure that they need to be in the ministry. SPIRIT is opposite of FLESH or BODY. Spirit is never in Scripture a PERSON: Spirit is the mind, heart or mental disposition OF God or mankind.

We accept that Father is generally the Jehovah Who is also Lord of people or places. We have shown that He is GOD in contrast to MAN.

The Son who is the IMAGE or forma of the Father is called a Prophet, Priest and King: His name is Jesus.

There is no "THE" so lets say: Holy Spirit does not have a name. Holy means "wholly" Spirit without flesh and blood (says Jesus). Spirit is not the name of a person: it literally means only WIND and used figuratively of the BREATH of God. We know about our breath and that is supposed to prevent us from calling our breath another person. In fact, sitting behind some smoking brother or sister singers makes you think otherwise.

"Often at such an hour as this,
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
when the BODY has given up the struggle,
.....its salvation is the SPIRIT,
.....which is ready to fight on in the conscience that it is innocent.

"On the other hand, he whose conscience is guilty has
.....no worse enemy than that conscience;
.....for his SPIRIT fails him which his BODY is still unwearied,
.....because it feels that what is approaching him
.....is the punishment of his iniquities.
.....But it is with no such guilty conscience that I come before you. (Antiphon On the murder or Herodes 5.93)

> For God is my witness, whom I serve with MY spirit in the gospel of his Son,
.....that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers; Rom 1:9
> But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should
.....serve in newness OF spirit,
.....and not (serve) in the oldness of the letter<b>. Rom 7:6</b>


In the Greek literature "letter" is what is written down on paper. "Spirit" is understanding the meaning. Spirit is contrasted to LAW neither of which are "persons."

> O wretched man that I am who shall deliver me from the BODY of this death? Romans 7:24
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then
.....with the MIND I myself serve the law of God;
.....but with the FLESH the law of sin. Romans 7:25

> THERE is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,
.....who walk not after the FLESH,
.....but (walk) after the SPIRIT. Romans 8:1
For the law of the Spirit OF life in Christ Jesus
.....hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:2


The Promise after OUR unholy spirit is purged by God will become A holy spirit so that we can DETECT the Word. Anyone who performs the ACT of reading a part of a verse and the ACT of making up their own words are NOT part of the kingdom of God which does not come with OBSERVATION meaning religious observations. Worship is IN our spirit which is a PLACE and pity those who hire themselves out promising to let you OBSERVE them and LEAD you into worship by watching them.

Jesus said My WORDS are SPIRIT and they are LIFE.

God's breath is articulated by Jesus so that His WORDS are SPIRIT in an audible sense. In the same way our BREATH is detected by someone's EARS and the invisible "wind" becomes audible.</font>
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

October 15th, 2016, 8:52 pm #40

Quote: "The Son who is the IMAGE or forma of the Father is called a Prophet, Priest and King: His name is Jesus."

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]How true!!! Trinitarians detest the words "is the IMAGE OF." They remove "the IMAGE of" from the clause and retains only the word "IS" in their narrative.

The Scripture teaches:

2 Cor. 4:[4] In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Col. 1:[15] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:


Can you imagine referring to the only one true God the Father as a "prophet"? Or as a "priest"?[/color]
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