The Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20)

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 4th, 2016, 6:13 pm #191

The NAME of father, son and spirit is not NAMES father, son and spirit. The error crept into churches of Christ lately when the preacher preaches and the candidate believe that GOD is made up of three PERSONS or PEOPLE. No one ever pronounced a formula: the candidate makes the confession that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God. It is not a "bother" to teach the facts for free rather than sell them at retail.

Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Acts 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.


It is not very NOT BOLD to say that the Word doesn't matter.

Col. 3:16 Let the word of WORD dwell in you richly in all wisdom; TEACH and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,
singing with grace in your hearts [PLACE] to the Lord.
Col. 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.


Those who are perhaps ignorant of Donnie's list are just as ANTI Scripture when they don't SPEAK the WORD excluding anything NOT in the NAME of the Lord.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 5th, 2016, 5:37 am #192

There seems to be a lot of unnecessary hoopla over the baptismal wording in the Bible. On one hand, there's baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as presented in Matt. 28:19; on the other, there's baptism in the name of Jesus, as presented in a number of other verses.

Since both baptismal wordings are in the Bible, and since the Bible is the inerrant Word of God, and since God would have rightly directed the translators to produce correct and inerrant translations, then both wordings are acceptable.

The common factor is that both baptismal wordings mention "Jesus" or "the Son." Disregarding any "Trinitarian" viewpoints, Matthew's wording is simply more "complete," because it also includes Father and Holy Spirit. The wordings that mention only Jesus are simply examples of synecdoche, in which Jesus represents the whole of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Why is there only one example of baptism in the name of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, whereas there are multiple examples of baptism in the name of Jesus? The same could be asked about the multiple verses about salvation that mention faith but do not mention baptism.

Those playing the "numbers game," so to speak, would contend that more verses mentioning baptism in the name of Jesus overrule baptism in the name of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Likewise, the faith-only folks would downplay baptism as necessary for salvation, because faith-only verses are more prevalent. In other words, "the majority rules." Does it really?

According to 2 Tim. 3:16, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." Therefore, all Scripture in the Bible is valid, whether it occurs only once or a thousand times.

The bottom line: If personal bias causes you to reject one or more passages of Scripture, then you might as well reject all Scripture. You cannot pick and choose which Scripture you will accept and which you will reject. It's an all-or-none situation.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill,

You said: Disregarding any "Trinitarian" viewpoints, Matthew's wording is simply more "complete," because it also includes Father and Holy Spirit.

1. I agree with your statement above partly -- disregard any "Trinitarian" viewpoint. That's a list of 3 entities; the list does not prove the Trinity dogma. Yet Trinitarian advocates use the "baptismal formula" in the passage to prove the pagan-influenced, Catholic-originated/invented Trinity creed.

2. I disagree with you that the name of the "Father, Son and Holy Ghost" is "more 'complete'" ... which you just made up. Remember that not only that the only God made Jesus both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36), but also that the only true God gave Jesus the Son of man his name in this manner: "Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name" (Philippians 2:9).

3. Sorry, Bill, it is not about playing the "numbers game." There are at least 45 passages that clearly agree with Philippians 2:9 that the name of Jesus Christ is NOT less complete (as you suggest) than the other name.

4. If you now disregard the Trinitarian viewpoint in Matt. 28:19, that would be a great improvement. [/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 5th, 2016, 6:27 am #193

I notice this...the problem isn't Madison, or Richland Hills, or Hillcrest, or any other church...the problem is Donnie Cruz and Ken Sublett. You have, day by day and word by word, used this site as a facade for your TRYING to change facts about the Word of God. You have edited deleted and refused posts by me in the past. You should have quit posting my comments years ago, when I decided that neither of you are serious enough to contend God's Word. You change your positions from day to day, and now you don't except even the KJV translation. Your explanations of your THE and capitalized GOD in John 1 and Isaiah 9 proves this. Now, above all, you want to exclude the use of being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

Do what you want to. You always have. It just doesn't go along (and never will) with the Word of God.

Now do something stupid, again, by asking me another question on or about God's Word. You don't deserve to even read it any longer. Go off and press/print your KDV (Ken, Donnie Version), but don't expect those of us that believe in the inerrant Word of God to accept it.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Dave,

Maybe you should do your own research and find out for yourself. Whether you do it or not, the fact remains:

1. That in NT Greek, John 1:1 says -- "AND THE WORD WAS WITH THE GOD." Why is "THE GOD" difficult for you to understand? A great clue to remember: "THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB."

2. That in NT Greek, John 1:1 says -- "AND THE WORD WAS GOD." "GOD" in the last clause is no longer preceded by the definite article THE.

Dave, in case you intentionally did not read (and STUDY) the passages I quoted earlier, here they are again.

Actually, in studying "The Life of Christ" in a Christian school, it is emphasized that "the four gospels" are parallel accounts of Christ's life and works on earth: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are those books.

So, now let's compare these books (with the exception of John) and the last chapters that deal with events after the resurrection of Christ:


GO YE INTO ALL THE WORLD: MATTHEW 28
[/color]
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times][18] And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]<b>[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
    [/color]</b></li>
  • <b>[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]<b>[20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.[/color]</b></b></li>

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]GO YE INTO ALL THE WORLD: MARK 16[/color]
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times][15] And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]<b>[16] He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
    [/color]</b></li>
  • <b>[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]<b>[17] And these signs shall follow them that believe; IN MY NAME shall they cast out devils;[/color]</b></b></li>
<b></b>


[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]GO YE INTO ALL THE WORLD: LUKE 24:[/color]
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times][45] Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]<b>[46] And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
    [/color]</b></li>
  • <b>[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]<b>[47] And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached IN HIS NAME among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.[/color]</b></b></li>
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Bill
Bill

November 5th, 2016, 1:15 pm #194

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill,

You said: Disregarding any "Trinitarian" viewpoints, Matthew's wording is simply more "complete," because it also includes Father and Holy Spirit.

1. I agree with your statement above partly -- disregard any "Trinitarian" viewpoint. That's a list of 3 entities; the list does not prove the Trinity dogma. Yet Trinitarian advocates use the "baptismal formula" in the passage to prove the pagan-influenced, Catholic-originated/invented Trinity creed.

2. I disagree with you that the name of the "Father, Son and Holy Ghost" is "more 'complete'" ... which you just made up. Remember that not only that the only God made Jesus both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36), but also that the only true God gave Jesus the Son of man his name in this manner: "Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name" (Philippians 2:9).

3. Sorry, Bill, it is not about playing the "numbers game." There are at least 45 passages that clearly agree with Philippians 2:9 that the name of Jesus Christ is NOT less complete (as you suggest) than the other name.

4. If you now disregard the Trinitarian viewpoint in Matt. 28:19, that would be a great improvement. [/color]
Sorry, Donnie, but here are some more cold, hard facts. Despite your fixations on Eusebius, your rainbow-colored text, and all your other visual pizzazz, people will continue to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and they will continue to believe that Jesus is God.

I know that's a big disappointment for you, but in the words of Walter Cronkite's departing catchphrase, "And that's the way it is."
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 5th, 2016, 2:03 pm #195

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Dave,

Maybe you should do your own research and find out for yourself. Whether you do it or not, the fact remains:

1. That in NT Greek, John 1:1 says -- "AND THE WORD WAS WITH THE GOD." Why is "THE GOD" difficult for you to understand? A great clue to remember: "THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB."

2. That in NT Greek, John 1:1 says -- "AND THE WORD WAS GOD." "GOD" in the last clause is no longer preceded by the definite article THE.

Dave, in case you intentionally did not read (and STUDY) the passages I quoted earlier, here they are again.

Actually, in studying "The Life of Christ" in a Christian school, it is emphasized that "the four gospels" are parallel accounts of Christ's life and works on earth: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are those books.

So, now let's compare these books (with the exception of John) and the last chapters that deal with events after the resurrection of Christ:


GO YE INTO ALL THE WORLD: MATTHEW 28
[/color]
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times][18] And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]<b>[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
    [/color]</b></li>
  • <b>[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]<b>[20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.[/color]</b></b></li>

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]GO YE INTO ALL THE WORLD: MARK 16[/color]
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times][15] And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]<b>[16] He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
    [/color]</b></li>
  • <b>[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]<b>[17] And these signs shall follow them that believe; IN MY NAME shall they cast out devils;[/color]</b></b></li>
<b></b>


[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]GO YE INTO ALL THE WORLD: LUKE 24:[/color]
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times][45] Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]<b>[46] And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
    [/color]</b></li>
  • <b>[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]<b>[47] And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached IN HIS NAME among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.[/color]</b></b></li>
In the "First Century Church" or the "New Testament Church" the preacher does not make the confession.

The one being baptized makes the confession.

Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?


What hinders one is not making the confession:

Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.


With no further raising of hands or comments by Philip:

Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.


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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 5th, 2016, 4:44 pm #196

Sorry, Donnie, but here are some more cold, hard facts. Despite your fixations on Eusebius, your rainbow-colored text, and all your other visual pizzazz, people will continue to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and they will continue to believe that Jesus is God.

I know that's a big disappointment for you, but in the words of Walter Cronkite's departing catchphrase, "And that's the way it is."
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The baptizer is the one who verbalizes that one [singular] name of Father-Son-Holy Ghost. The baptizer and what/how he verbalizes that ONE NAME is not an issue with me.

1. Baptism is for sins to be remitted.

2. The mention of Father, Son and Holy Ghost does not prove the Catholic Trinity dogma.

3. Consider that one who is baptized INTO Christ (not into the Father, Son and Holy Ghost) puts on Christ (not "puts on the Father, Son and Holy Ghost").

4. Do you know what putting on Christ in baptism means? One becomes a CHRIST-ian, not a Trinitarian.

5. Did you read and study the passages quoted below from the gospels ... and compare the accounts from Matthew and Mark and Luke in reference to GO YE INTO ALL THE WORLD? Why both Mark and Luke state "IN MY NAME"?[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 5th, 2016, 5:07 pm #197

In the "First Century Church" or the "New Testament Church" the preacher does not make the confession.

The one being baptized makes the confession.

Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?


What hinders one is not making the confession:

Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.


With no further raising of hands or comments by Philip:

Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.


[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]To Bill and Dave:

It is worth considering a comparative study of the gospels when Jesus delivered his directive to his disciples after God resurrected Jesus from the dead (Acts 13:30, KJV).

Early manuscript Eusebius (3rd century) quoted from ---- "in my name"

Matthew --- "in the name of Father, Son, Holy Ghost"
Mark ------ "in my name" = "in the name of Jesus Christ"
Luke ------ "in his name" = "in the name of Jesus Christ"[/color]
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Dave
Dave

November 5th, 2016, 11:27 pm #198

Donnie asked "Why is "THE GOD" difficult for you to understand?" Because you change Jesus from BEING God, to being something else besides God. You have also said that it also says "...the god." MEANING that Jesus is just a god, not the God. YOU CHANGE that, not the KJV....and believe me....the KJV translators had the original manuscripts (you don't), they were men who spoke and understood the different languages (you don't), they were led by God to translate the Word (and you are not). You don't need to translate what is already good. If they didn't see the mistakes, why do you think you can?

You are a blasphemer.

Either you or Ken needs to post my post that he felt like was personally abusive. Ken and you verbally abuse others every day here. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.



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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 6th, 2016, 12:54 am #199

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Dave, where's the post you mentioned?

You did not address Mark's and Luke's accounts of the life of Christ after God raised Jesus from the dead. As you should know by now, Jesus did not resurrect himself from the dead -- God did that. I wanted your comment as to why Matthew's (one of the four gospels) account did not match that of Mark's or Luke's in reference to Jesus' command or directive to his followers to "go ye into all the world" and make disciples (accomplished by being baptized) "in the name of Jesus Christ."

In John 1:1, the NT Greek says: "... AND THE SAYING [THE LOGOS] WAS WITH THE GOD...." The definite article "THE" [TON] precedes "GOD" [THEON]. The Trinity-influenced human translators of the INSPIRED TEXT literally removed "TON" from "TON THEON" -- and you tell me why Trinity-influenced (biased) translators tampered with the inspired text.[/color]
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Visitor
Visitor

November 6th, 2016, 4:01 pm #200



THE CHANGE AGENTS ARE COMING! THE CHANGE AGENTS ARE COMING!

They would like to CHANGE the KJV Bible!!

Resist the evil ones!

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