Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 4th, 2016, 4:26 pm #31

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Let not the subject of this thread nor the scriptures quoted below offend you. Instead, let this be a serious study of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Acts 3:13; Luke 20:37; Matt. 22:32; Mark 12:26) and the God of Jesus Christ (please read and study some of many references below).

The purpose of this study is to show what the Scripture has revealed (not in secrecy) that Jesus himself has a God just like the rest of us. (Of course, it was God who made Jesus both Lord and Christ [Acts 2:36]. We also know that Jesus Christ is "the image of God" [II Cor. 4:4].)[/color]

<ol>[*][color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times]And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (Matt. 27:46)[/color]

</li>[*][color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times]And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (Mark 15:34)[/color]

</li>[*][color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times]Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. (John 20:17)[/color]

</li>[*][color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times]So that with one mind and one voice you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (Rom. 15:6, NIV)[/color]

</li>[*][color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times]Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort (II Cor. 1:3, NIV, etc.)[/color]

</li>[*][color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times]The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not. (II Cor. 11:31)[/color]

</li>[*][color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times]Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: (Eph. 1:3)[/color]

</li>[*][color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times]I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. (Eph. 1:17, NIV, etc.)[/color]

</li>[*][color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times]Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead (I Peter 1:3)[/color]

</li>[*][color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times]And from Jesus Christ who ... washed us from our sins in his own blood ... and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father--to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen. (Rev. 1:5,6; NIV, etc.)[/color]

</li>[*][color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times]Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. (Rev. 3:12)[/color]</li>[/list]

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Isn't this a fair, sensical question: How can Jesus “be God” and “have a God” at the same time?

The serious Bible student would also ask why Jesus still says "my God" in Revelation 3:12, considering: after his death, resurrection and ascension when Jesus has all authority in heaven and on earth, and seated at the right hand of God!!![/color]

_____________________________

[color=#000000" size="3" face="times]Edited from an unordered list to a numbered list of 11 verses most of which truly indicate:

(1) The God
(2) and [conjunction]
(3) Father
(4) OF [preposition]
(5) our Lord Jesus Christ.

It can't be any more clear and precise than that!!!
[/color] [d.c.]
The Greeks understood LETTER as that which is written, but SPIRIT is to understand the MEANING of what you hear. Spirit is ABLE to grasp that:

There is ONE GOD THE FATHER
And One Lord (temporary leader) as SON.
The One God the Father MADE the man Jesus of Nazareth TO BE His anointed (Christ)
The Son spoke of His God and ours: just one of those unless you are "OF the World desperately seeking to restore the ECUMENICAL or the reign of Satan."

When God gives you A holy spirit or A good conscience, consciousness or a CO-PERCEPTION then you can read black text on white paper. This gift of perception never gives one the ability to contradict ALL of the statements about the Father-Son relationship. It simply gives one the GIFT of A holy spirit which means that all of the STRAITNESS added by milling multitudes has been WASHED AWAY so that you can "see afar." We have noted that:

SPEAK to ONE ANOTHER with the "poetic" Scriptures--that which is written for our LEARNING.

CANNOT be understood by the "progressives" as anything but:

SING to the AUDIENCE with what itzy-bitzy praise leader wrote
SING and make melody UPON AN INSTRUMENT of your choice
TO the admiring and therefore "worshiping" admirers: look at me, look at me, see Dick, see Tom, See Harry, See Mary make Merry.

If you say that LEXIS and the LOGOS words mean SPEAK as the OPPOSITE of ODE they will say, with their new Phd, that SPEAK means SING contradicting the LOGOS or regulative principle and therefore ANTICHRISTS.

Only those who HEARD the invitation and responded by wanting to be baptized are those TO WHOM God speaks. Others hear babble words but do NOT comprehend.

Let's see if anyone can detect Who is the only real HOLY (wholly) SPIRIT.

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 4th, 2016, 10:48 pm #32

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Ken, would you clarify one line in your post above when you said:[/color]
<blockquote>What Alexander Campbell and the "progressives" repudiate
</blockquote>

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]I didn't realize that Campbell and the change agents (progressives) would repudiate the same thing? Although they would ... occasionally?

Maybe I misunderstood something.

Or, did you mean to say something to the effect that the progressives [would] repudiate what Alexander Campbell said? [/color]
SORRY BOUT THAT: here is a bit better:

What Alexander Campbell Affirms but the "progressives" repudiate: John Mark Hicks tries to make Alexander Campbell into a "closet trinitarian."

http://www.piney.com/Trinity.Hicks.Rochester.html

John Mark Hicks: Nevertheless, by the late 1830s Campbell was concerned about the relationship between his reforming movement and the Unitarians of the New England Christian Connexion.

In the 1840s this blossomed into a clear renunciation of the theological core of Unitarianism and the embrace, despite his avoidance of scholastic language, of some quite explicit Trinitarian perspectives.

in your kind epistle of November 11th, you asked me for my definition of a Unitarian, and assured me that you denied the name, though often applied to yourself, and urged me to say whether I "designed to co-operate with Trinitarians against Unitarians," &c. I felt it my duty to make the proposition alluded to in your letter of March 30th. I have done so in the full persuasion that the contemplated discussion is not only expedient, but necessary, and that it can be so managed as to disabuse the public mind of injurious prejudices both against you and myself.

You have long disavowed Unitarianism, and I have also disavowed Trinitarianism and every other sectarianism in the land; and therefore that morbid state of feeling elicited by these partizan wars about the polemical abstrusities of metaphysical abstractions, which, in its excessive irritability, forbids the scriptural investigation of the great points which have been so often distorted and mangled on the racks and wheels of party discord and proscription, should have no abiding in our minds, much less prohibit a scriptural examination of the facts, and precepts, and promises, on which these unhallowed theories have been reared. and I most sincerely supplicate the FATHER OF LIGHTS to subdue our spirits and to imbue them with the holy spirit of the gospel of [247] Christ


Campbell defined the WORD as define because it came from God. However, He said that Jesus of Nazareth had His being when He was conceived and born.

TO BROTHER HENRY GREW.
My principal objection to the popular doctrine of "the Trinity"
is not that it is either irrational
or unscriptural,
to infer that there are three Divine persons in one Divine nature.


This is where the "progressives" blink out: Campbell continued to write:

I say I object not to this doctrine because it is contrary to reason, or revelation, but because of the metaphysical technicalities, the unintelligible jargon, the unmeaning language of the orthodox creeds on this subject, and the interminable war of words without ideas to which the word Trinity has given birth.

For example, in the same section from which I have quoted the above words is found the following jargon: "The Father is of none, neither begotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son."

Were any one to ask me, Can there be three distinct persons, or even beings, in one God? I would say,
Reason informs me not,
and revelation does not assert it.
But if asked, Can there be one, and [99] one three in the same sense?
I reply, Both reason and revelation say No.
But then no Trinitarian or Calvinist affirms that the three are one, and the one three, in the same sense.


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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 4th, 2016, 10:58 pm #33

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Ken,

I agree with you, as also expressed in the Bible: If Jesus existed even before He was prophesied as the coming Messiah, he would not be a God- being or person. The WORD (LOGOS) is the governing principle excercised through speaking. In other words, it was whenever God SAID or SPOKE. A good example of this is what God SAID in the creation event. Here's a series of that in Genesis 1:

[03] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
[06] And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters ...
[09] And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be ...
[11] And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed ...
[14] And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide ...
[20] And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature ...
[24] And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind ...
[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them ...

Genesis 1:1 says -- "In the beginning..."
John 1:1 says -- "In the beginning..."

The LOGOS (WORD) of God was with "the God" in the beginning (proper translation of John 1:1). SPOKEN -- whatever proceeds out of the mouth of God. The LOGOS/WORD was not "the God" but was "[a] god" or "godlike" (proper translation of John 1:1). The definite article "THE" in the 3rd clause of the verse is MISSING. So, the WORD/LOGOS was not 'THE GOD" that Trinitarian translators mistranslated.

The LOGOS (WORD) of God became flesh -- not God [the Father only]. (John 1:14)

As Humility noted earlier, there is not any reference to the expression "God the Father" in the Old Testament. Because the LOGOS/WORD as ONLY prophesied in the O.T. did not become flesh until 2 millennia ago. As also noted, there was no pre-existing Father-and-Son relationship in the O.T. that the book of John clearly explains, not until God sent His only begotten Son.[/color]
The greatest supernatural operation, borrowing an idea from God, is that He created Adam as the first adam and Jesus as the second Adam.

If Jesus is the only begotten son.
And Jesus was begotten by the same power of God.
Then Jesus could not have been begotten from eternity past.

It is God's Laws which regulate the physical and spiritual worlds

While those who are clearly ANTI-Christs (in the words of John) mock and are featured at University assemblies Deny God's silence by debating empty chairs, and specificially claim that we just lifted the Regulative Principle from John Calvin, they deny God or even human's exercise of their power through WORDS. Rick Atchley used Empty Chairs as his theatrical "word" which in fact denied that Jesus is still on the CHAIR or Throne of God. He in fact, and the audience mocked applaudingly, FILLED the empty chairs with his IMPROVED kings.



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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 6th, 2016, 3:24 am #34

According to the Bible, Jesus is Lord and God is Lord -- Lord God and Lord Jesus.

According to the Bible, however, there is only one Lord.

Therefore, if the Bible doesn't contradict itself, then Jesus and God are one and the same Being.

BTW, text in different colors, underlining, text in all caps, and text in exaggerated font sizes do not strengthen arguments. Instead, they signify desperation and certainly do not change the fact that Jesus is God. I believe we've been over that before.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]My Scripture-based response is in blue:[/color]

According to the Bible, Jesus is Lord and God is Lord -- Lord God and Lord Jesus. [color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times][Correct][/color]

According to the Bible, however, there is only one Lord [color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times][incorrect -- "ONLY one Lord" is not found in the Bible].

The Bible says:

----- "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD" (Deut. 6:4).
----- "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, ...
----- "Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord" (Mark 12:29).
----- "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; ...
----- "AND one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him (I Cor. 8:6).


The Bible also says:

----- "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, ...
----- "that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ
.

Scripture says: The LORD our God is one LORD [God the Father]
Scripture says: One Lord Jesus Christ [the Father's only begotten Son]
There is no contradiction: The LORD our God is one LORD
There is no contradiction: There is one Lord Jesus Christ
[/color]


Therefore, if the Bible doesn't contradict itself [color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times][correct][/color], then Jesus and God are one [color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times][correct in that they are united][/color] and the same Being [color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times][incorrect, a speculation][/color].

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]The Scripture says many times that God the Father and God's only begotten Son are different beings:

-- God the Father AND one Lord Jesus Christ (I Cor. 8:6)
-- Jesus Christ AND God the Father (Gal. 1:1)
-- From God the Father AND from our Lord Jesus Christ (Gal. 1:3)
-- From God the Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ (Eph. 6:23)
-- That Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (pHIL 2:1)
-- In God the Father AND in the Lord Jesus Christ (I Thess. 1:1)
-- From God our Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ (I Thess. 1:1)
-- From God the Father AND Christ Jesus our Lord (II Tim. 1:2)
-- From God the Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. (Titus 1:4)
-- From God the Father AND from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father (II JOhn 1:3)
-- sanctified by God the Father AND preserved in Jesus Christ (Jude 1:1)

[Bill, I'm embarrassed to ask you: Do you understand the significance of the conjunction AND?]
[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 6th, 2016, 4:06 am #35

I got it!

Jack AND Jill went up the hill. That means that Jack IS Jill?

In our gender confused world it might be (doesn's say is isn't)

Jack and Jill went up the hill
Jack went up as Jack.
Jack came down as Jill.

The Doctor level doctor of trinity says:

1 AND 1 are 1
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Bill
Bill

January 6th, 2016, 4:59 am #36

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]My Scripture-based response is in blue:[/color]

According to the Bible, Jesus is Lord and God is Lord -- Lord God and Lord Jesus. [color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times][Correct][/color]

According to the Bible, however, there is only one Lord [color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times][incorrect -- "ONLY one Lord" is not found in the Bible].

The Bible says:

----- "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD" (Deut. 6:4).
----- "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, ...
----- "Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord" (Mark 12:29).
----- "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; ...
----- "AND one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him (I Cor. 8:6).


The Bible also says:

----- "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, ...
----- "that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ
.

Scripture says: The LORD our God is one LORD [God the Father]
Scripture says: One Lord Jesus Christ [the Father's only begotten Son]
There is no contradiction: The LORD our God is one LORD
There is no contradiction: There is one Lord Jesus Christ
[/color]


Therefore, if the Bible doesn't contradict itself [color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times][correct][/color], then Jesus and God are one [color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times][correct in that they are united][/color] and the same Being [color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times][incorrect, a speculation][/color].

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]The Scripture says many times that God the Father and God's only begotten Son are different beings:

-- God the Father AND one Lord Jesus Christ (I Cor. 8:6)
-- Jesus Christ AND God the Father (Gal. 1:1)
-- From God the Father AND from our Lord Jesus Christ (Gal. 1:3)
-- From God the Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ (Eph. 6:23)
-- That Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (pHIL 2:1)
-- In God the Father AND in the Lord Jesus Christ (I Thess. 1:1)
-- From God our Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ (I Thess. 1:1)
-- From God the Father AND Christ Jesus our Lord (II Tim. 1:2)
-- From God the Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. (Titus 1:4)
-- From God the Father AND from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father (II JOhn 1:3)
-- sanctified by God the Father AND preserved in Jesus Christ (Jude 1:1)

[Bill, I'm embarrassed to ask you: Do you understand the significance of the conjunction AND?]
[/color]
Donnie, I'm embarrassed to ask you, but do you understand the significance of the conjunction "and" since the Bible in some passages says that Jesus is the Lord or Lord Jesus and in other passages that God is the Lord or Lord God?

Do you understand that the Bible also says there is only one Lord, not two or more Lords?

Do you understand that if the Bible is true and does not contradict itself, that for Jesus to be the Lord and for God to be the Lord, yet there is only one Lord, then Jesus and God are one and the same Being?

That should be very easy to understand.

On the other hand, perhaps you believe that sometimes God is the Lord and at other times Jesus is the Lord, but they are never the Lord together at any one time (remember, there is only one Lord). Perhaps you believe they swap out being Lord, that maybe one year Jesus is the Lord and then the next year God is the Lord. Of course it's ridiculous, but that's about all you have left if you deny that Jesus is God but acknowledge (surely you do) that the Bible says Jesus is the Lord (Lord Jesus) and that God is the Lord (Lord God).
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 6th, 2016, 6:06 am #37

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]I got it too. Bill is not gender-confused; but he is undoubtedly being-confused. Back to basic parts-of-speech 101 -- the conjunction "and" and its significance.

The Scripture says many times that God the Father and God's only begotten Son Jesus Christ are different beings:

-- God the Father AND one Lord Jesus Christ (I Cor. 8:6)
-- Jesus Christ AND God the Father (Gal. 1:1)
-- From God the Father AND from our Lord Jesus Christ (Gal. 1:3)
-- From God the Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ (Eph. 6:23)
-- That Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (pHIL 2:1)
-- In God the Father AND in the Lord Jesus Christ (I Thess. 1:1)
-- From God our Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ (I Thess. 1:1)
-- From God the Father AND Christ Jesus our Lord (II Tim. 1:2)
-- From God the Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. (Titus 1:4)
-- From God the Father AND from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father (II JOhn 1:3)
-- sanctified by God the Father AND preserved in Jesus Christ (Jude 1:1)


Really, I got it!!! Bill desperately wants to replace "and" with "or" in the above passages.
[/color]
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Bill
Bill

January 6th, 2016, 8:29 am #38

You still ignore the fact that the Bible allows only one Lord, yet for God to be Lord AND for Jesus to be Lord, they have to be one and the same. God and Jesus are one and the same Being, one and the same Lord.

I guess you're just not able to understand that God can be the Father AND the Son, One Lord, because God sent Himself to earth as His own Son Jesus, Emmanuel, "God with us" -- literally. Jesus was God in the flesh, "I and my Father are one" -- literally.

That's so very easy to understand, yet it is a stumbling block to those short-sighted folks who lack discernment and who limit the spiritual realm to the finite principles of human genetics.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 6th, 2016, 4:43 pm #39

The Greeks understood LETTER as that which is written, but SPIRIT is to understand the MEANING of what you hear. Spirit is ABLE to grasp that:

There is ONE GOD THE FATHER
And One Lord (temporary leader) as SON.
The One God the Father MADE the man Jesus of Nazareth TO BE His anointed (Christ)
The Son spoke of His God and ours: just one of those unless you are "OF the World desperately seeking to restore the ECUMENICAL or the reign of Satan."

When God gives you A holy spirit or A good conscience, consciousness or a CO-PERCEPTION then you can read black text on white paper. This gift of perception never gives one the ability to contradict ALL of the statements about the Father-Son relationship. It simply gives one the GIFT of A holy spirit which means that all of the STRAITNESS added by milling multitudes has been WASHED AWAY so that you can "see afar." We have noted that:

SPEAK to ONE ANOTHER with the "poetic" Scriptures--that which is written for our LEARNING.

CANNOT be understood by the "progressives" as anything but:

SING to the AUDIENCE with what itzy-bitzy praise leader wrote
SING and make melody UPON AN INSTRUMENT of your choice
TO the admiring and therefore "worshiping" admirers: look at me, look at me, see Dick, see Tom, See Harry, See Mary make Merry.

If you say that LEXIS and the LOGOS words mean SPEAK as the OPPOSITE of ODE they will say, with their new Phd, that SPEAK means SING contradicting the LOGOS or regulative principle and therefore ANTICHRISTS.

Only those who HEARD the invitation and responded by wanting to be baptized are those TO WHOM God speaks. Others hear babble words but do NOT comprehend.

Let's see if anyone can detect Who is the only real HOLY (wholly) SPIRIT.

You still ignore the fact that the Bible allows only one Lord, yet for God to be Lord AND for Jesus to be Lord, they have to be one and the same. God and Jesus are one and the same Being, one and the same Lord.

Both god and lord are generic words. If you hire someone who claims to be the agent of Jehovah and you give all of your attention to their words then you are defacto worshiping that person. If you spend your time thinking about money then money is your god.

I the Prophets which defines the future kingdom of Messiah the Lord has no meaning unless you name Him Jehovah. Even then, Jah might speak of Zeus unless you attach a modifier:

Gen. 24:12 And he said, O LORD [Jehovha] God [Elohim]] of my master Abraham, I pray thee, send me good speed this day, and shew kindness unto my master Abraham.

Ex. 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.


The world is FILLED with LORDS and GODS: The Greek translation uses Theos to mean GOD and Kurios to mean Lord. To distinguish Jesus from your senior pastor claiming to be the Authoritative Teacher from the ONE LORD the bible NAMES JESUS so we can MARK anyone who refused to teach and observe what Jesus commanded to be observed.

1Cor. 8:4 ¶ As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but ONE.
1Cor. 8:5 For though there be that are CALLED gods,
whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods MANY, and lords MAN,)
1Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father,
OF<b> whom are all things, and we in him;
and <b>one Lord Jesus Christ
, bY whom are all things, and we by him. </b></b>


The Jah as El is distinguished from the gods of the world, kosmos or the ecumenical:

Gen. 14:22 And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the MOST HIGH God<b>, the possessor of heaven and earth, </b>

Jehovah must be hyphenated Lord God to distinguish Him from the "lords" of religious institutions forcing people to WORK on the Sabbath (Rest day)

God (singular) made the MAN Jesus of Nazareth TO BE the Lord (ruler) and Christ (Messiah-annointed) over His SPIRITUAL KINGDOM which does not come with observation meaning religious spectacles (shock and awe) but is WITHIN the individual member of the Little (mikros) Flock. They are SEPARATED as Paul separated his flock FROM the world, kosmos or the ecumenical. Satan is the KosmoKrater or world ruler or LORD.

kosmos , ho, A. order, kata kosmon in order, duly, shamefully, generally, of things, natural order, ornament, decoration, esp. of women, metaph., of ornaments of speech, such as epithets, to sing sweet songs of praise, world-order, universe, first in Pythagoras, of earth, as opp. heaven, 3. in later Gr., = oikoumenē, the known or inhabited world, 5. houtos ho k. this present world, i.e. earth, OPPOSITE. heaven, Ev.Jo.13.1; regarded as the kingdom of evil, ho arkhōn tou k. toutou ib.12.31.

Kosmo-krator epith. of ouranos, Orph.H.4.3; “Zeus Mitras Hēlios k.
Dam.Pr.131; hoi k. tou skotous toutou the cosmic rulers of this sinful world, dentified with Apollon.
Ep.Eph.6.12; “hoi k. hoi ta hupo selēnēn stoikheia dioikountes”

Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen. [OUT of the Oikoumen- not INTO]

Jesus is Jehovah's WORLD RULER because His creation rescues the Little Flock for this WORLD ORDER "Reserved for fire."<font>

1Cor. 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Cor. 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Cor. 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet.
But when he saith all things are put under him,
it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Cor. 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him,
then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.





</font>
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Bill
Bill

January 6th, 2016, 5:14 pm #40

You still ignore the fact that the Bible allows only one Lord, yet for God to be Lord AND for Jesus to be Lord, they have to be one and the same. God and Jesus are one and the same Being, one and the same Lord.

I guess you're just not able to understand that God can be the Father AND the Son, One Lord, because God sent Himself to earth as His own Son Jesus, Emmanuel, "God with us" -- literally. Jesus was God in the flesh, "I and my Father are one" -- literally.

That's so very easy to understand, yet it is a stumbling block to those short-sighted folks who lack discernment and who limit the spiritual realm to the finite principles of human genetics.
Since Donnie fixates on the word "and," I submit he's never considered the possibility that the phrase "God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" refers not to two separate Beings or Binity but to ONE Being with two identical manifestations. Instead of a separate God and a separate Jesus, which would mean there were two separate Lords (Lord God and Lord Jesus) instead of the one Lord as the Bible says, that phrase refers to ONE Being who is BOTH God AND Jesus together, Father AND Son together as One Being.

So, consider that. It makes a lot of sense to those who have enough discernment to understand it.
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