'The God of Jesus Christ' (Scriptures) -- Does Jesus Have a God?

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 3rd, 2016, 8:47 pm #21

Bill and maybe some little Elves?

What the Bible says about God as the Lord:
--"the Lord thy God" (Matt. 22:37).

Some preacher must be assisting Bill: no student of the Bible would post so many passages trying to denounce Jesus as a liar for saying that He is Lord and His Father is the ONE GOD. This leads me to one of my Sunday-school lessons while watching the Titans get beat again.

We have shown that Jesus agreed with the Scribes or Jews who wanted Jesus to declare is TIRAD-NESS. Jesus agreed with Scripture and the Jews that there is ONLY ONE Lord God and all else are CREATURES.

We have also shown that in the Old Testament God is always LORD-GOD. That is because the pagans and many Jews such as those abandoned to worship the starry host, believed that CREATURES such as sun, moon and the wandering stars were gods (elohim). However, we have also quoted some passages to prove that Jehovah (Lord in Hebrew) is the ONLY TRUE Elohim (god). Moses was the agent and inspired by Jehovah is is called a god or elohim. Any ruler was an elohim. Jesus AFFIRMS that there is only ONE TRUE God and He did not claim that He was number 2 of the LU trinity of descending order of people: 1, 2 and 3.

Jehovah is LORD in the absolute sense but Jesus is Lord (kurios) in the INHERITED sense and then ONLY until the end of time when He will return the temporary throne to God so that HE will be ALL IN ALL.

Matt. 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
Matt. 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the LAW?
Matt. 22:37 Jesus said unto him,
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
.....and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Matt. 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Matt. 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matt. 22:40 On these two commandments HANG all the LAW and the PROPHETS.


And we need to at least try to connect the dots left by Jesus to fool the clergy:

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is NONE good but one, that is, God.
Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is ONE Lord:


God continued to be absolute LORD and He could BESTOW rulership over anyone He pleased without ceasing to be the ONE LORD GOD.

After Jesus was BORN God made Him heir and Lord of Hid kingdom, the body of Christ or the Church of Christ. I have noted that his throne was for this AGE and will be returned to God so that JEHOVAH will be the Lord-God of whatever comesx.

The Shema (Deut 6:4 is still the primary prayer by the Jews: if you cannot believe that there is ONE JEHOVAH but many elohim men considered to be "gods" then you could not answer Philip and are not a candidate for baptism. Jesus is the "begotten" Son of God and God MADE HIM TO BE both Lord and Christ.

Heb. 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake
in time past unto the fathers by the PROPHETS, [BY the Spirit OF Christ]
Heb. 1:2 Hath in these
.....LAST DAYS spoken unto us by his Son,
.....whom he HATH appointed heir of all things,
.....by whom also he made the WORLDS;


God didn't speak through His SON the seed of David after the flesh but DECLARED to be God's ONLY BEGOTTEN son who did not exist before He was "begotten"

Jesus was made the Heir because He came to establish a NEW WORLD or new heavens and earth as the time when all spirits will be sought out, tested and a tiny few translated into the Heavenly Kingdom which is NOT OF THIS WORLD: if you felt it, saw it, heard it or smelled it this morning you are NOT in the Christian World Order in final conflict with the World, Kosmos or the ECUMENICAL.

Jesus was the Articulater of the WORD and the IMAGE of His PERSON.

Heb. 1:3 Who being the BRIGHTNESS of HIS glory,
.....and the express IMAGE (FORMA) of HIS PERSON,
.....and upholding all things by the word of his power,
.....when he had by himself purged our sins,
.....sat down on the right hand of the MAJESTY on high


Jesus as the IMAGE of that Majesty was God's ANOINTED (CHRIST) agent but He was not even LORD until He was BORN and was declared as the begotten SON after His baptism.

Person NEVER speaks of a PEOPLE even among the historic inventers of the trias concept.

5287.hupostasis, hoop-os´-tas-is; from a compound of 5259 and 2476; a setting under (support), i.e. (figuratively) concretely, essence, or abstractly, assurance (objectively or subjectively): — confidence, confident, person, substance.

God is SPIRIT without flesh and bones and cannot ever be imagined as a bit superior to the MAN Jesus of Nazareth. Image or Forma or Figure is left with

Figuro In gen.: “voces lingua,” to pronounce, utter, To imagine, fancy, picture, In rhet. lang., to adorn with figures, translatis verbis quam propriis figuratur oratio,” Of a word, derived: “dicatur a Graeca voce figurata esse,” Gai. Inst. 3, 93 fin.— B. [select] Trop., of speech, figurative


The OLD WORLD ORDER (the pattern of your church) was DESTROYED BY WATER and was therefore NOT created by the MAN Jesus of Nazareth.

Gen. 9:11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

Peter was Genesis literate even as a fisherman neither Priest nor Levite or "doctor of the law."

ISN'T IT THE TRUTH, PETER?

2Pet. 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of,
..... that by the WORD of God the heavens were of old,
.....and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:


The EARTH or fruitful places was what was raised up OUT of the Water. The Latin in Genesis points to figurative darkness or IGNORANCE.

The Old World Order to which God returned the Jews because of instrumental-trinitarian idolatry.

2Pet. 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pet. 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same WORD are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.


The WORD of God was His creative "son" but WORD means "regulative principle" in CONTRAST to anything that comes out of the mind or mouth of humans--that which pollutes. All of God's attributes are PERSONIFIED but they are "personae" and not PEOPLE in the LU neo-trinity.

The CHRISTIAN WORLD ORDER (Christian System) are withheld with the same WORD (Dabar-Logos). That Christian World order has NOTHING proping it up but the LOGOS which IMAGES are the ONLY educational resource to UPHOLD or give CONFIDENCE (not a people)</font>
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Bill
Bill

January 3rd, 2016, 11:15 pm #22

Some people may take a passage like Eph. 6:23 that mentions "God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" and contend that since God is the Father, then only Jesus, not God, is the Lord, that they are two separate beings, which is the concept of "Binity." That ignores and negates the fact that the Bible says that God is the Lord AND that Jesus is also the Lord. We cannot get around that Biblical fact, unless we want to believe that the Bible is incorrect and/or contradicts itself. But since we believe that the Bible is true, and since there is only ONE Lord, then the fact that God is the Lord and Jesus is the Lord means God and Jesus are definitely one and the same. This takes nothing away from God being the Father and Jesus being the Son. With God/Jesus, Father and Son are ONE BEING. Once again, forget about human genetics, because it has no application in the spiritual realm.

The Bible clearly informs us that Jesus is God, IF we are discerning enough to see it. But because some people lack sufficient discernment, they cannot accept the fact that Jesus is God.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 3rd, 2016, 11:38 pm #23

The Almighty never ceases to be LORD GOD or Jehovah the ONLY true Elohim. God RAISED UP the fruit of David's Loins to be Messiah or the Ruler of His Spiritual kingdom on earth UNTIL Jesus returns again and Jesus will give up His temporary rulership of His Church. "Master (as a respectful title): — God, Lord, master, Sir." If God made Jesus to be LORD then Jesus cannot be God.

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David,
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
that he is both dead and buried,
.....and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet,
.....and knowing that God [Deus] had sworn with an oath to him,
.....that of the fruit of his [David's] loins, [private parts]
.....according to the flesh,
.....HE would RAISE UP Christ to sit on HIS THRONE

John 7:42 Hath not the scripture said,
.....That Christ cometh of the seed of David,
.....and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
Rom. 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord,
.....which was made of the seed of David
.....according to the flesh;
Rom. 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power,
.....according to the spirit of holiness,
.....by the resurrection from the dead:


God the SENDER was in Heaven but He sent Jesus from Bethlehem. He also "called His Son out of Egypt." Heaven is "up there" because we have no notion of the Spirit world: Paul said that in God we live, move and have our being and "he is not far from all of us."

We now live IN the World but we are not OF the World, and neither is Jesus nor any of those who can RECEIVE the call or invitation and be marked or sealed by submitting to baptism. As my quote of Campbell notes, we know nothing of what went on in the Spirit realm. OUR test is whether we believe that Jesus later made to be both Lord and Christ came fully in the flesh.

It could only be after Jesus knew that God had given Him full authority to make known the Prophesied kingdom, that He proved His merit by refusing to exercise that authority. Rather, He assumed the role of a poor man subject to to the abuse of those OF THE WORLD. He would have proven nothing if He assumed full authority and forced everyone to PASS THE TEST which, I believe, must be offered in all of the world because it is a sign that only those NOT OF this world or as pilgrims and sojourners will recognize.

Jesus said that He didn't pray for the WORLD because those God gave Him are not OF the World. He said that God HIDES from the wise or sophists: speakers, singers or instrument players who Paul in Ephesians 4 says are LYING IN WAIT TO DECEIVE.

Believers are the aliens in a wild and wicked race of Vipers. The kingdom does not come with observation meaning religious observations or operations called Lying Wonders: The little flock will be outside houses of worship by hands as He and the church suffer reproaches but are invited to COME LEARN OF ME.</font>
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on January 3rd, 2016, 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 4th, 2016, 1:32 am #24

Some people may take a passage like Eph. 6:23 that mentions "God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" and contend that since God is the Father, then only Jesus, not God, is the Lord, that they are two separate beings, which is the concept of "Binity."

No, it is not any kind of ITY:
God is the only SPIRIT without flesh and bones
Jesus said He had flesh and bones
Therefore, Jesus was not God or we couldn't see Him.

Lord just means a RULER and the modern PLANTATION OWNERS (mega churches) have only the senior pastor as LORD: He is the antithesis of a "minister" because he insists that even the poor widows sell their property so he can build more houses.

One God person
One MAN as Mediator
All people who are brothers with no ranks

The One Piece Pattern:

Rom. 15:6 That ye may with one mind and
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
one mouth glorify God,
.....even the Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ


GOD is defined as the FATHER. God is the Father of Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus was not the CHRIST of God until God "made Him to be both Lord and christ." He is not called the Son of God until after His baptism. Neither Lord Nor Christ are God words in the Greek.

There is just ONE GOD FATHER OF THE UNIVERSE OR UNIVERSES.
Jesus was given God's throne for HIS kingdom and so the RULER.
Jesus is the ONE MAN who is the mediator between the ONE GOD and His Children.
That is neither unitarianism or oneness which is not content to speak where the Bible speaks.

1 Cor. 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things
.....that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, [gods]
.....we know that an idol is nothing in the world,
.....and that there is none other God but ONE<b>. </b>


The trinity invented by Lipscomb University's H. Leo Boles and which spread over parts of churches of Christ says as with John Mark Hicks.

There are THREE centers of consciousness, able to "commune" or with Boles hold conversations like a committee.

The Father is God
The Son is God: 100% man and 100% God
The Holy Spirit is God
They are ONE only in the sense that THEY are perfectly agreed among THEMSELVES.


Paul is therefore declared IGNORANT and also a woman hater and so WE no longer preach from the epistles but we KNOW only Christ and Him crucified. They translate that to mean WE PREACH only Christ. However, that is a lie because they claim that a spirit will tell them the TRUE TRUTH if you engage in Ignatian Meditations which honors Mary the Mother of God.

1Cor. 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

1Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, OF whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.


The ONE GOD is the FATHER and not IN ADDITION a son and a spirit.

</font>
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 4th, 2016, 4:53 am #25

If Jesus is the only begotten son of God then the historic scholars and Alexander Campbell are correct that God is a literal "father" at the same time that Jesus because a son. Only after Jesus' baptism was He confessed as God's Son. His physical nature came through Abraham-David.

Rom. 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Rom. 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit OF holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

If Jesus existed even before He was prophesied as Messiah He would not be a God person or "people." The Word or LOGOS is God's Regulative or governing principle: it is exercised through speaking. To debunk the pagan Hermes or Kairos, God's logos excludes human reasoning, personal experiences, singing, playing instruments or acting.

The Word or Logos was a literal member only of the pagan trinity as Hermes, Mercury or Kairos.
To contradict the pagan theology, the Word is defined as what one speaks in wordS defining God's Ruling principle.
Jesus did not originate but articulated what the Father breathed (spirit) into Him. Only when He speaks what He hears is He the audible-visible WORD of God in the same sense that He is the LIGHT of God.

John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent SPEAKETH the words of God:
for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and HATH given all things into his hand.


God the Father breathed and gave the Son all things and the Son speaks only what He hears. His Disciples are likewise NOT OF this World so that they speak what Jesus conveyed and are hated and despised: a MARK.

Therefore, Jesus could say in contrast to human food, "My Words are Spirit and they are Life." The connection seems to be that God's Spirit or Mind is carried only by the Words (Logos).

What Alexander Campbell Affirms but the "progressives" repudiate: John Mark Hicks tries to make Alexander Campbell into a "closet trinitarian."

1. In the first place I object to the Calvinistic doctrine of the Trinity
for the same reasons they object to the Arians and Socinians.

They object to these, because their views derogate in their judgment from the eternal glory of the Founder of the christian religion.

They will not allow the Saviour to have been a creature, however exalted, because they conceive this character is unbecoming him, and contrary to the scriptural statements concerning him. They wish to give him more glory than they think the Arians are willing to do.

Now I object to their making him and calling him an "Eternal Son" because I think that if he were only the Son of God from all eternity, he is entitled to very little, if any more glory, than what the Arians give him.

I wish to give him more glory than the Calvinists give him. They are as far below his real glory, in my judgment, as the Arians are in their judgment.

2. But in the second place, I have an insuperable objection to the Arian and Calvinistic phraseology--On the doctrine of the first relation existing between the Father and the Saviour of Men,

because it confounds things human and divine,
and gives new ideas to bible terms unthought of by the inspired writers.


The names Jesus, Christ, or Messiah, Only Begotten Son, Son of God, belong to the Founder of the christian religion, and to none else. They express not a relation existing before the christian era, but relations which commenced at that time.

To understand the relation betwixt the Saviour and his Father, which existed before time, and that relation which began in time, is impossible on either of these theories.

There was no Jesus, no Messiah, no Christ, no Son of God, no Only Begotten, before the reign of Augustus Cesar.

The relation that was before the christian era,
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
was not that of a son and a father,
.....terms which always imply disparity;
.....but it was that expressed by John in the sentence under consideration.
.....The relation was that of God,
.....and the "WORD OF GOD."

This phraseology unfolds a relation quite different from that of a father and a son--a relation perfectly intimate, equal, and glorious.

This naturally leads me to the first sentence of John. And here I must state a few postulata.

1. No relation amongst human beings can perfectly exhibit the relation which the Saviour held to the God and Father of All anterior to his birth. The reason is, that relation is not homogenial, or of the same kind with relations originating from creation.

All relations we know any thing of are created,
such as that of father and son.

Now I object as much to a created relation as I do to a creature in reference to the original relation of God and the WORD of God.This relation is an uncreated and unoriginated relation.


Note again, that the Word or Logos is God's Regulative Principle always spoken. If Jesus existed at the time He would not be a GOD PERSON but only God's Principle of Governing the universe.</font>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Ken, would you clarify one line in your post above when you said:[/color]
<blockquote>What Alexander Campbell and the "progressives" repudiate
</blockquote>

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]I didn't realize that Campbell and the change agents (progressives) would repudiate the same thing? Although they would ... occasionally?

Maybe I misunderstood something.

Or, did you mean to say something to the effect that the progressives [would] repudiate what Alexander Campbell said? [/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 4th, 2016, 5:30 am #26

If Jesus is the only begotten son of God then the historic scholars and Alexander Campbell are correct that God is a literal "father" at the same time that Jesus because a son. Only after Jesus' baptism was He confessed as God's Son. His physical nature came through Abraham-David.

Rom. 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Rom. 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit OF holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

If Jesus existed even before He was prophesied as Messiah He would not be a God person or "people." The Word or LOGOS is God's Regulative or governing principle: it is exercised through speaking. To debunk the pagan Hermes or Kairos, God's logos excludes human reasoning, personal experiences, singing, playing instruments or acting.

The Word or Logos was a literal member only of the pagan trinity as Hermes, Mercury or Kairos.
To contradict the pagan theology, the Word is defined as what one speaks in wordS defining God's Ruling principle.
Jesus did not originate but articulated what the Father breathed (spirit) into Him. Only when He speaks what He hears is He the audible-visible WORD of God in the same sense that He is the LIGHT of God.

John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent SPEAKETH the words of God:
for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and HATH given all things into his hand.


God the Father breathed and gave the Son all things and the Son speaks only what He hears. His Disciples are likewise NOT OF this World so that they speak what Jesus conveyed and are hated and despised: a MARK.

Therefore, Jesus could say in contrast to human food, "My Words are Spirit and they are Life." The connection seems to be that God's Spirit or Mind is carried only by the Words (Logos).

What Alexander Campbell Affirms but the "progressives" repudiate: John Mark Hicks tries to make Alexander Campbell into a "closet trinitarian."

1. In the first place I object to the Calvinistic doctrine of the Trinity
for the same reasons they object to the Arians and Socinians.

They object to these, because their views derogate in their judgment from the eternal glory of the Founder of the christian religion.

They will not allow the Saviour to have been a creature, however exalted, because they conceive this character is unbecoming him, and contrary to the scriptural statements concerning him. They wish to give him more glory than they think the Arians are willing to do.

Now I object to their making him and calling him an "Eternal Son" because I think that if he were only the Son of God from all eternity, he is entitled to very little, if any more glory, than what the Arians give him.

I wish to give him more glory than the Calvinists give him. They are as far below his real glory, in my judgment, as the Arians are in their judgment.

2. But in the second place, I have an insuperable objection to the Arian and Calvinistic phraseology--On the doctrine of the first relation existing between the Father and the Saviour of Men,

because it confounds things human and divine,
and gives new ideas to bible terms unthought of by the inspired writers.


The names Jesus, Christ, or Messiah, Only Begotten Son, Son of God, belong to the Founder of the christian religion, and to none else. They express not a relation existing before the christian era, but relations which commenced at that time.

To understand the relation betwixt the Saviour and his Father, which existed before time, and that relation which began in time, is impossible on either of these theories.

There was no Jesus, no Messiah, no Christ, no Son of God, no Only Begotten, before the reign of Augustus Cesar.

The relation that was before the christian era,
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
was not that of a son and a father,
.....terms which always imply disparity;
.....but it was that expressed by John in the sentence under consideration.
.....The relation was that of God,
.....and the "WORD OF GOD."

This phraseology unfolds a relation quite different from that of a father and a son--a relation perfectly intimate, equal, and glorious.

This naturally leads me to the first sentence of John. And here I must state a few postulata.

1. No relation amongst human beings can perfectly exhibit the relation which the Saviour held to the God and Father of All anterior to his birth. The reason is, that relation is not homogenial, or of the same kind with relations originating from creation.

All relations we know any thing of are created,
such as that of father and son.

Now I object as much to a created relation as I do to a creature in reference to the original relation of God and the WORD of God.This relation is an uncreated and unoriginated relation.


Note again, that the Word or Logos is God's Regulative Principle always spoken. If Jesus existed at the time He would not be a GOD PERSON but only God's Principle of Governing the universe.</font>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Ken,

I agree with you, as also expressed in the Bible: If Jesus existed even before He was prophesied as the coming Messiah, he would not be a God- being or person. The WORD (LOGOS) is the governing principle excercised through speaking. In other words, it was whenever God SAID or SPOKE. A good example of this is what God SAID in the creation event. Here's a series of that in Genesis 1:

[03] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
[06] And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters ...
[09] And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be ...
[11] And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed ...
[14] And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide ...
[20] And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature ...
[24] And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind ...
[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them ...

Genesis 1:1 says -- "In the beginning..."
John 1:1 says -- "In the beginning..."

The LOGOS (WORD) of God was with "the God" in the beginning (proper translation of John 1:1). SPOKEN -- whatever proceeds out of the mouth of God. The LOGOS/WORD was not "the God" but was "[a] god" or "godlike" (proper translation of John 1:1). The definite article "THE" in the 3rd clause of the verse is MISSING. So, the WORD/LOGOS was not 'THE GOD" that Trinitarian translators mistranslated.

The LOGOS (WORD) of God became flesh -- not God [the Father only]. (John 1:14)

As Humility noted earlier, there is not any reference to the expression "God the Father" in the Old Testament. Because the LOGOS/WORD as ONLY prophesied in the O.T. did not become flesh until 2 millennia ago. As also noted, there was no pre-existing Father-and-Son relationship in the O.T. that the book of John clearly explains, not until God sent His only begotten Son.[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 4th, 2016, 6:05 am #27

Some people declare that Jesus cannot be God, because the Bible does not explicitly say, "Jesus is God." Of course, the Bible also does NOT explicitly say, "Jesus is not God," yet those people conveniently ignore the latter. Even though the Bible refers to God as the Father and to Jesus as the Son of God and the Son of man, God and Jesus have a common link -- they are the "Lord":

What the Bible says about Jesus as the Lord:
--"the Lord Jesus" (Luke 24:3).
--"Jesus is the Lord" (1 Cor. 12:3).
--"Jesus Christ (he is Lord of all)" (Acts 10:36).
--"Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:23).
--"the Lord Jesus" (Rom. 14:14).

What the Bible says about God as the Lord:
--"the Lord thy God" (Matt. 22:37).
--"The Lord our God is one Lord" (Mark 12:29).
--"the Lord our God" (Acts 2:29).
--"the Lord God" (1 Peter 3:15).
--"Lord God Almighty" (Rev.4:8).

The Bible recognizes only one Lord:
--"The Lord our God is one Lord" (Mark 12:29).
--"one Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Cor. 8:6).
--"One Lord..." (Eph. 4:5).

The Bible refers to God as the Lord; the Bible refers to Jesus as the Lord. Yet the Bible says there is only ONE Lord. How can God and Jesus both be the Lord? The answer is simple: God and Jesus are one and the same Being. The Bible need not say, "Jesus is God" or "God is Jesus" or "God the Son" or "God and Jesus are one and the same," as man would have it, for God and Jesus to be the same Being. With humans, the father cannot be the son, neither can the son be the father; but with God/Jesus, Who is supernatural and transcends all human limitations, all that and more are possible. Human genetics do not apply to Him. The evidence is all too clear that God and Jesus are One and the same.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times](1) Some people easily forget or ignore the truth that it was God, in the first place, Who made Jesus both Lord and Christ. "God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ" Acts 2:36

(2) Some people easily forget or ignore the truth that it was God, in the first place, Who gave "all power" to Jesus. All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth" Matt. 28:18.

(3) Some people easily forget or ignore the truth about "Christ, who is the image of God" (II Cor. 4:4).

(4) Some people easily forget or ignore the truth about Christ "who is the image of the invisible God" (Col. 1:15).

(5) Some people easily forget or ignore the truth that Jesus Christ is sitting at the right hand of God His Father (numerous passages support this truth).

(6) These people are confused about the identity of the only true God the Father and the identify of the only begotten Son of God the Father -- confused about the sender and and the one sent, about the giver and the receiver.

The fact that the Lord God made Jesus both Lord and Christ and is the IMAGE of God (does anyone know what the word "image" means?) does not contradict the truth that only the Father is the only true and living God.

I'm waiting for someone to say that the Trinity-identified "Holy Spirit" is also "Lord" ... so that we may also call "the Spirit of God" God. "Lord Holy Spirit!!!" -- hmmm. [/color]
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Bill
Bill

January 4th, 2016, 6:29 am #28

As I said, one must have discernment to recognize and understand the Bible passages that reveal that Jesus is God. Those without that discernment readily deny that Jesus is God.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 4th, 2016, 7:59 am #29

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Definition of "discernment" -- (in Christian contexts) perception in the absence of judgment with a view to obtaining spiritual direction and understanding

I would have discernment along with the biblical passages. Scripture overrides discernment. There are scriptures that override discernment. A good example follows (John 17):
[/color]<ol>[*][color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
[/color]</li>[*][color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]<b>As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
[/color]</b></li>[*]<b>[color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]<b>And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, AND Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.[/color]</b></b></li>[/list]<b></b>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Factual observations:
[/color]
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]In communication: (1) the Father and (2)the Son
    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The Father -- the giver of power (addressed as "thou")
    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The Son -- the recipient of power (identified as he, him)
    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The Son in turn gives eternal life to ...
    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]... as many as [each one Christ gives eternal life to....]
    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD (the sender)
    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The conjunction AND
    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Jesus Christ -- whom God SENT.
    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Again: NOTE the one who GAVE and the one GIVEN
    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Again: NOTE the one who SENT and the one who WAS SENT.[/color]</li>
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Bill
Bill

January 4th, 2016, 3:07 pm #30

According to the Bible, Jesus is Lord and God is Lord -- Lord God and Lord Jesus.

According to the Bible, however, there is only one Lord.

Therefore, if the Bible doesn't contradict itself, then Jesus and God are one and the same Being.

BTW, text in different colors, underlining, text in all caps, and text in exaggerated font sizes do not strengthen arguments. Instead, they signify desperation and certainly do not change the fact that Jesus is God. I believe we've been over that before.
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