Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

December 31st, 2016, 12:20 am #51

I Am simply means "I exist."

John 9 uses the same AM meaning I AM HE.
John 9:9 Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Heb. 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

Heb. 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
Heb. 7:10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Heb. 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb. 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb. 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Heb. 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb. 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Heb. 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Last edited by Ken.Sublett on December 31st, 2016, 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dave
Dave

December 31st, 2016, 2:21 pm #52

Ken didn't even answer the questions, just went out there on his own trail again.
How about you Donnie. You game?
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

December 31st, 2016, 5:36 pm #53

The answer is in the text. I AM Ken; you AM Sarge, neither is Jehovah-Elohim or Lord-God Who AM as self-existing. I AM just means I EXIST. All "god" or "lord" words existed in the beliefs of pagans. The only way to Identify the One True god is to associate Him with a person, place or action

Ex. 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
Ex. 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

h1961. hayah, haw-yaw; a primitive root (compare 1933); to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):—beacon, x altogether, be(-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, x have, last, pertain, quit (one-)self, require, x use.

h1933. haw-vaw´; havah, haw-vaw´; a primitive root (compare 183, 1961) supposed to mean properly, to breathe; to be (in the sense of existence):—be, x have.

Some of the IDENTIFIERS

Elohim (God)
Yahweh (Lord, Jehovah)
El Elyon (The Most High God) the plural sets Jehovah ABOVE all of the pagan gods.
Adonai (Lord, Master)
El Shaddai (Lord God Almighty)
El Olam (The Everlasting God)
Jehovah Jireh (The Lord Will Provide)
Jehovah Rapha (The Lord Who Heals You)
Jehovah Nissi (The Lord Is My Banner)
El Qanna (Jealous God)
Jehovah Mekoddishkem (The Lord Who Sanctifies You)
Jehovah Shalom (The Lord Is Peace)
Jehovah Sabaoth (The Lord of Hosts)
Jehovah Raah (The Lord Is My Shepherd)
Jehovah Tsidkenu (The Lord Our Righteousness)
Jehovah Shammah (The Lord Is There)

The BRANCH or SON in Zechariah is Jehovah-Saves or Savior
The FATHER of the SON is Jehovah-Righted

Acts 27:23 For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve,

g1510. eijmi÷ eimi, i-mee´; the first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist (used only when emphatic): — am, have been, x it is I, was. See also 1488, 1498, 1511, 1527, 2258, 2071, 2070, 2075, 2076, 2771, 2468, 5600.

Jesus was of the SEED of Abraham: life only comes from life

John 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
Rom. 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom. 1:4 And declared [determine, limit, ordain] to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:



Last edited by Ken.Sublett on December 31st, 2016, 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dave
Dave

January 1st, 2017, 4:06 am #54

Donnie,
Answer this.....
1-Who are the only ONES to claim the title of "I AM?" (I realize that in the NT the claimant doesn't use the same grammar/verbiage, but still the same all the while)
2-How/Why were they both able to make this claim of being "I AM?"
3-Who is the "I AM?"
John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Exodus 3:14
And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 1st, 2017, 7:43 am #55

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Dave,

(1) There's only ONE (not ONES): God is the only one who said it. The KJV renders Exodus 3:14 -- "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM [GOD] hath sent me [Moses] unto you."

(2) The expression "I am" [no caps], with the same Greek text, was said by:

------ Paul in Acts 26:28,29 [KJV] -- "Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian. And Paul said, I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds." But that "I am" did not make Paul into God.

------ The man born blind that Jesus healed in John 9:8,9 [KJV] -- "The neighbours therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is not this he that sat and begged? Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he." But that "I am he" did not make the healed blind man into God.

------ Jesus in John 8:58 [KJV] -- "Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.". Trinitarians would like to think so, but that "I am" [no caps] did not make Jesus into God. This will be explained further below.

(3) Dave, this is the correct question ... in singular form. Exodus 3:14 [KJV] is explained in (1) above -- only GOD said it.

John 8:58 must be taken in context. God, Whom Jesus called "my Father" is in the conversation. (In fact, the New Testament makes reference to "my Father" more than 50 times.) This is important because of the relationship between: (1) the only true God the Father and (2) His Son Jesus whom He sent -- and note the SENDER (God) and the SENDEE (Jesus the Messiah). [Sadly, there are posters who confuse God the Father and/with His Son Jesus because of the passage: "I and my Father are one" ... these folks think that they are one and the same and that they are interchangeable.]

There are many other occurrences of the phrase "I am" in the New Testament. The implication is that "I am" is equivalent to "I am he" or "I am the one."

Speaking of context, please note John 8:41,42 [KJV] -- "Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me."

Speaking of context (and Ken has already mentioned this), please note John 8:56 [KJV] -- "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad." This verse is speaking of the coming of the Messiah. In John 8:58, Jesus was saying "I am [the Messiah sent by God the Father]." It was a prophecy of the Messiah which Abraham knew about and saw it coming. The Messiah came from God -- not God coming from God.

CONTEXT ... CONTEXT ... CONTEXT. The coming Messiah was prophesied and Abraham knew about it. The coming Messiah was sent by the only true God the Father: "I proceeded forth and came from God" (John 8:42, KJV). The Jews picked up stones to kill Jesus, not because he was claiming to be God, but because they understood he was claiming to be the Messiah. "But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God" (Matt. 26:63, KJV).[/color]
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Bill
Bill

January 1st, 2017, 1:44 pm #56

It should be quite clear that when Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I am," Jesus indicated that He had always existed, had been with God as God from the foundation of the world, as John 1:1 also teaches. The "I am" [caps or no caps] of Exodus is said in the same context as in John: that is, "I exist and have always existed." Thus, by saying that, Jesus was telling the Jews that He was God in the flesh. That's why they desired to stone Him. We must also realize that whereas capitalization and punctuation are standard in the English language, they were not standard in the language of the Bible. Therefore, there is no difference in context between God's "I AM" in Exodus vs. Jesus' "I am" in John, because Jesus is God in the flesh. Comparing Jesus' "I am" to Paul's "I am" is to compare apples with oranges, because Paul was not divine, whereas Jesus was.
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Dave
Dave

January 1st, 2017, 11:26 pm #57

Donnie, you have tried that one before. You try to muddy the water with anything that would mention "I am." The "I am" is NOT the same as the "I Am" that both Jesus and God ONLY can attest to.

You tried that before and were proved to be wrong. It has nothing to do with the Greek text, but the MEANING only.

You said "(2) The expression "I am" [no caps], with the same Greek text, was said by:
------ Paul in Acts 26:28,29 [KJV] -- "Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian. And Paul said, I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds." But that "I am" did not make Paul into God."

You were right to say that the "I am' that Paul used there did not make him God. You knew that already though. The two "I Am' that asserted DIETY. You knew that with grammar the one you quoted in Acts 26 spoke of a noun-verbiage. 'I am what?'

I AM, the phrase as being God, is used only twice...once by God in Exodus and once by Jesus in John

Not even a good try Donnie.
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Dave
Dave

January 2nd, 2017, 12:08 am #58

God gave Jesus the Glory of being King in His Kingdom. God NEVER gave up any of His own power by bestowing the title of GOD to Jesus, as God did in Hebrews 1
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

He also never lowered the Oneness with Jesus with bestowing titles on Him such as: Son of God and Son of Man.

The two claims of I AM in John, by Jesus, and in Exodus, by God, CANNOT be refuted. All others, as mentioned by Donnie, are not claims of being the "I AM" but used in a regular grammatical composition but not espousing the title of GOD.

When anyone denies that GOD SAID that Jesus is God, as GOD HIMSELF calls Jesus (Hebrews 1: 8-9), then they are denying the Righteousness and High Place of our Saviour, Jesus Christ.

Let it be understood too, in verse 8 of Hebrews 1 the author there speaks and states that both God is God and Jesus is God when he says "...therefore God, even thy God,...."

That is why Jesus ALWAYS did the will of God while He was on earth. God was with and IN HIM.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 2nd, 2017, 12:15 am #59

It should be quite clear that when Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I am," Jesus indicated that He had always existed, had been with God as God from the foundation of the world, as John 1:1 also teaches. The "I am" [caps or no caps] of Exodus is said in the same context as in John: that is, "I exist and have always existed." Thus, by saying that, Jesus was telling the Jews that He was God in the flesh. That's why they desired to stone Him. We must also realize that whereas capitalization and punctuation are standard in the English language, they were not standard in the language of the Bible. Therefore, there is no difference in context between God's "I AM" in Exodus vs. Jesus' "I am" in John, because Jesus is God in the flesh. Comparing Jesus' "I am" to Paul's "I am" is to compare apples with oranges, because Paul was not divine, whereas Jesus was.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill,

1. John 1:1 does not teach that "one man, Jesus Christ" (Romans 5:15) "had been with God as God from the foundation of the world" -- as you assume. The mediator between God and men is "the man Christ Jesus" (I Tim. 2:5).

2. Paul, the blind man and Jesus all used the same expression in NT Greek: "ego eimi" ["I am"] (Acts 26:28,29; John 9:8,9; John 8:58). The "I am" did not make Paul or the blind man or Jesus into God. Looks like you're making an assumption with the "ego eimi" phrase.

3. Still CONTEXT, Bill. Who "proceeded forth and came from God" (John 8:41-42, KJV)? Was it God or was it the Messiah? That's what the whole chapter is all about. Abraham knew about the prophesied Messiah. Jesus answered it correctly: "I am" [that Messiah of God].[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 2nd, 2017, 12:54 am #60

Donnie, you have tried that one before. You try to muddy the water with anything that would mention "I am." The "I am" is NOT the same as the "I Am" that both Jesus and God ONLY can attest to.

You tried that before and were proved to be wrong. It has nothing to do with the Greek text, but the MEANING only.

You said "(2) The expression "I am" [no caps], with the same Greek text, was said by:
------ Paul in Acts 26:28,29 [KJV] -- "Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian. And Paul said, I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds." But that "I am" did not make Paul into God."

You were right to say that the "I am' that Paul used there did not make him God. You knew that already though. The two "I Am' that asserted DIETY. You knew that with grammar the one you quoted in Acts 26 spoke of a noun-verbiage. 'I am what?'

I AM, the phrase as being God, is used only twice...once by God in Exodus and once by Jesus in John

Not even a good try Donnie.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Dave,

1. You need to read and study the expression "ego eimi" ["I am"] used in several passages in NT Greek texts.

2. When you say "Jesus and God" -- which is correctly stated anyway -- does not equate to "Jesus IS God." Does it, Dave? The words "and" and "is" are not the same, correct?

3. John 8:58 is not about Jesus saying: "I am God"; rather that "I am" [the Messiah that God sent]. That is the crux of the entire chapter of John 8.

----- The Father sent me (John 8:16).
----- The Father that sent me beareth witness of me (John 8:18).
----- ... about knowing the Father and me (John 8:19).
----- My Father hath taught me (John 8:28).
----- I speak that which I have seen with my Father (John 8:38).
----- I proceeded forth and came from God (John 8:42).
----- Neither came I of myself, but he sent me (John 8:42).
----- I honour my Father (John 8:49).
----- Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad (John 8:56).


None of the above speaks of Jesus as God. Jesus was not lying when he said: "I proceeded forth and came from God" (John 8:42). Think about that remarkable claim that Jesus made!!![/color]
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