The Commandments of m(K)en

Fred Whaley
Fred Whaley

March 9th, 2011, 4:08 pm #1

Fred is beyond surprised that Ken teaches that it is wrong to sing EVEN VOCALLY to God. Under the title......"When A Congregation Elects To Use Instruments Of Music In Its Worship" Ken states on March 8, 2011 at 11:23 a.m. in his concluding paragraph for the first sentence........"It was unlawful for the godly people to make vocal or instrumental rejoicing which was a style making School of the Word impossible."

Ken is saying it is unlawful for godly people to make VOCAL rejoicing to God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ken is a false teacher! He is teaching the commandments of m(K)en!

There are numerous Scriptures that say to sing to God!

Every church Fred knows of in America and in the entire world sing to God!

Maybe............JUST MAYBE...........KEN is wrong and not EVERYONE ELSE in the Christian world.

Folks beware of the commandments of Ken!!!!

Folks beware of the false teachers here at Concerned Members!!!!

I love the Church of Christ but the Church of Christ does not teach that it is wrong to sing vocally to God - just Ken (and maybe his cohorts Dr. Crump and Donnie Cruz).

Fred Whaley
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Dave
Dave

March 9th, 2011, 4:59 pm #2

Donnie,
This is PROOF beyond proof of what I contended with you a while back. I said the same thing about Ken, and you stood by his false teachings. Ken DOES teach that vocal AND instrumental music is wrong. He makes sure that you understand that a cappela is a part of music that Ken falsely claim is wrong. Ken's false teaching centers on ANY music, including vocal ONLY, as being sinful. You still on board with this sinking ship?
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

March 9th, 2011, 5:19 pm #3

Fred is beyond surprised that Ken teaches that it is wrong to sing EVEN VOCALLY to God. Under the title......"When A Congregation Elects To Use Instruments Of Music In Its Worship" Ken states on March 8, 2011 at 11:23 a.m. in his concluding paragraph for the first sentence........"It was unlawful for the godly people to make vocal or instrumental rejoicing which was a style making School of the Word impossible."

Ken is saying it is unlawful for godly people to make VOCAL rejoicing to God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ken is a false teacher! He is teaching the commandments of m(K)en!

There are numerous Scriptures that say to sing to God!

Every church Fred knows of in America and in the entire world sing to God!

Maybe............JUST MAYBE...........KEN is wrong and not EVERYONE ELSE in the Christian world.

Folks beware of the commandments of Ken!!!!

Folks beware of the false teachers here at Concerned Members!!!!

I love the Church of Christ but the Church of Christ does not teach that it is wrong to sing vocally to God - just Ken (and maybe his cohorts Dr. Crump and Donnie Cruz).

Fred Whaley
Find us a direct command of Jesus to sing as ceremonial legalism to do the ACT as opposed to TEACHING and COMFORTING "with Scripture."

The passages that include "singing" has nothing to do with a loud "worship team standing in the holy place" singing their own gender-ambivalent compositions doing MUSIC: the word music or symphonia means UNISON and not in sync with the praise leader. The clear command from the wilderness onward that the church collected had only ONE role: teach the Word of Christ in the prophets and apostles concerning the FOUNDATION and function of the church. You changelings have no intention of speaking "that which is written for your learning with one mind and ONE MOUTH." So, let's begin by changing Purpose Drivning Church.

John 20:19 ¶ Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled (synagogued)for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

The purpose driven church was for Jesus to SAITH to us:
Jesus did not "sing" in any tunful sense sinc Christ had outlawed it for the Qahal or Church of Christ in the wilderness and there is not a single approved example of the synagogue ever singing: The cursed Levites did that quarantined behind closed doors in Jerusalem.

John 20:26 ¶ And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

We have the command of Christ in the wilderness, His participating in the Jewish synagogue, and here are TWO First Day assemblies in sequence with NOTHING but instruction.

They did not SING tunefully: if the had learned Psalms they cantillated but there is no command, example or inference not was "melody as tunefulness" even known. You see, even Silly Sally had grown up learning Scripture at the synagogue.

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

They SYNAGOGUED (no loud noises)

G4905 sunerchomai soon-er'-khom-ahee From G4862 and G2064 ; to convene, depart in company with, associate with, or (specifically) cohabit (conjugally):accompany, assemble (with), come (together), come (company, go) with, resort.

Acts 10:27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together. (g4905)

Acts 14 27 And when they were come, and had gathered (g4863 Sunago) the church (Ekklesia) together (g4863 Sunago) , they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.


G4863 sunag soon-ag'-o From G4862 and G71 ; to lead together, that is, collect or convene; specifically to entertain (hospitably):+ accompany, assemble (selves, together), bestow, come together, gather (selves together, up, together), lead into, resort, take in.

G4897 suneiserchomai soon-ice-er'-khom-ahee From G4862 and G1525 ; to enter in company with:go in with, go with into.

G4864 sunagg soon-ag-o-gay' From (the reduplicated form of) G4863 ; an assemblage of persons; specifically a Jewish synagogue (the meeting or the place); by analogy a Christian church:assembly, congregation, synagogue.

You have to get back to commanded CERTITUDES in order to break the knees of those who see MUSIC as holy entertianment THE PURPOSE DRIVING their institutes which cannot be A Church of Christ. Then, if you sing you will not INTENTIONALLY use that form Jesus called "laded burdens" (songs) and Paul outlawed as self-pleasure.

Find a direct, imperative command to SING as an act of worship which means to "fall on your face in fear and trembling."

Romans 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

March 9th, 2011, 5:33 pm #4

Fred is beyond surprised that Ken teaches that it is wrong to sing EVEN VOCALLY to God. Under the title......"When A Congregation Elects To Use Instruments Of Music In Its Worship" Ken states on March 8, 2011 at 11:23 a.m. in his concluding paragraph for the first sentence........"It was unlawful for the godly people to make vocal or instrumental rejoicing which was a style making School of the Word impossible."

Ken is saying it is unlawful for godly people to make VOCAL rejoicing to God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ken is a false teacher! He is teaching the commandments of m(K)en!

There are numerous Scriptures that say to sing to God!

Every church Fred knows of in America and in the entire world sing to God!

Maybe............JUST MAYBE...........KEN is wrong and not EVERYONE ELSE in the Christian world.

Folks beware of the commandments of Ken!!!!

Folks beware of the false teachers here at Concerned Members!!!!

I love the Church of Christ but the Church of Christ does not teach that it is wrong to sing vocally to God - just Ken (and maybe his cohorts Dr. Crump and Donnie Cruz).

Fred Whaley
We need not give much attention to the ravings of Fred, a man who thinks he can "reform" people by talking like Elmer Fudd.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

March 9th, 2011, 5:34 pm #5

Donnie,
This is PROOF beyond proof of what I contended with you a while back. I said the same thing about Ken, and you stood by his false teachings. Ken DOES teach that vocal AND instrumental music is wrong. He makes sure that you understand that a cappela is a part of music that Ken falsely claim is wrong. Ken's false teaching centers on ANY music, including vocal ONLY, as being sinful. You still on board with this sinking ship?
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

I still stand by what I have said that the issue, your issue (not his), regarding "singing" is taken out of context. You will need to read his writings in entirety to grasp the message he is trying to purport. Remember that he is very thorough and detailed. He is very research-oriented and extremely knowledgeable of historical facts relative to musical idolatry, pagan ritualism and the modern holy entertainment industry.

I know he will respond to this thread -- give him time.

For sure, he will emphasize to the reader that singing devoid of that which teaches and admonishes one another serves no purpose in letting "the word of Christ dwell in your richly." [/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

March 9th, 2011, 5:34 pm #6

Find us a direct command of Jesus to sing as ceremonial legalism to do the ACT as opposed to TEACHING and COMFORTING "with Scripture."

The passages that include "singing" has nothing to do with a loud "worship team standing in the holy place" singing their own gender-ambivalent compositions doing MUSIC: the word music or symphonia means UNISON and not in sync with the praise leader. The clear command from the wilderness onward that the church collected had only ONE role: teach the Word of Christ in the prophets and apostles concerning the FOUNDATION and function of the church. You changelings have no intention of speaking "that which is written for your learning with one mind and ONE MOUTH." So, let's begin by changing Purpose Drivning Church.

John 20:19 ¶ Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled (synagogued)for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

The purpose driven church was for Jesus to SAITH to us:
Jesus did not "sing" in any tunful sense sinc Christ had outlawed it for the Qahal or Church of Christ in the wilderness and there is not a single approved example of the synagogue ever singing: The cursed Levites did that quarantined behind closed doors in Jerusalem.

John 20:26 ¶ And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

We have the command of Christ in the wilderness, His participating in the Jewish synagogue, and here are TWO First Day assemblies in sequence with NOTHING but instruction.

They did not SING tunefully: if the had learned Psalms they cantillated but there is no command, example or inference not was "melody as tunefulness" even known. You see, even Silly Sally had grown up learning Scripture at the synagogue.

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

They SYNAGOGUED (no loud noises)

G4905 sunerchomai soon-er'-khom-ahee From G4862 and G2064 ; to convene, depart in company with, associate with, or (specifically) cohabit (conjugally):accompany, assemble (with), come (together), come (company, go) with, resort.

Acts 10:27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together. (g4905)

Acts 14 27 And when they were come, and had gathered (g4863 Sunago) the church (Ekklesia) together (g4863 Sunago) , they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.


G4863 sunag soon-ag'-o From G4862 and G71 ; to lead together, that is, collect or convene; specifically to entertain (hospitably):+ accompany, assemble (selves, together), bestow, come together, gather (selves together, up, together), lead into, resort, take in.

G4897 suneiserchomai soon-ice-er'-khom-ahee From G4862 and G1525 ; to enter in company with:go in with, go with into.

G4864 sunagg soon-ag-o-gay' From (the reduplicated form of) G4863 ; an assemblage of persons; specifically a Jewish synagogue (the meeting or the place); by analogy a Christian church:assembly, congregation, synagogue.

You have to get back to commanded CERTITUDES in order to break the knees of those who see MUSIC as holy entertianment THE PURPOSE DRIVING their institutes which cannot be A Church of Christ. Then, if you sing you will not INTENTIONALLY use that form Jesus called "laded burdens" (songs) and Paul outlawed as self-pleasure.

Find a direct, imperative command to SING as an act of worship which means to "fall on your face in fear and trembling."

Romans 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
When people "sang" in the Greek sense of the word it has to do with enchanting or charming as in "charming your pants off to pick your pocket."

This was loud screaming and yelling something like CCM where the boylings seem like they have something caught in a vise. I told you that Paul commanded that we use that which is written with one mind and one mouth. You will find no exception in the Bible or recorded history.

Singing in the Jewish sense was cantillation: since none of the commanded text is metrical; the "music" word is connected to emphasis marks and a rhymic style. The "singing" in the charismatic sense is identified by musicologists as derived from voodoo and marked black music dominating the master's slaves he THOUGHT were Methodists. The Stoneites addopted the Shouting Methodists as an act of worship: CCM is shouthing which is intended to stroke all of your pleasure centers so they can steal the widown's purse.

Hymnody developed systematically, however, only after the emperor Constantine legalized Christianity (AD 313); and it flourished earliest in Syria, where the practice was possibly taken over from the singing by Gnostics and Manichaeans of hymns imitating the psalms. The Byzantine Church adopted the practice; in its liturgy, hymns maintain a much more prominent place than in the Latin liturgy; and Byzantine hymnody developed complex types such as the kanon and kontakion (qq.v.; see also Byzantine chant). Saint Ephraem--a 4th-century Mesopotamian deacon, poet, and hymnist--has been called the "father of Christian hymnody." Britannica Online

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/279350/hymn

This is not GCMF: differences of opinion is THE meaning of DIALOG which Paul did until midnite: he did NOT preach until midnight out of his head.

1Peter 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
1Peter 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
1Peter 4:4 ¶ Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:
1Peter 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

1Peter 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
1Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1Peter 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
1Peter 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.


Last edited by Ken.Sublett on March 9th, 2011, 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

March 9th, 2011, 6:28 pm #7

We need not give much attention to the ravings of Fred, a man who thinks he can "reform" people by talking like Elmer Fudd.
Ken deals what IS the meaning of IS is: it doesn't matter what the massed multitudes do because Jesus invited the TWOS AND THREES to come outside the camp, rest and LEARN OF ME. Christ commanded that for the Church of Christ as synagogue in the wilderness. There is surely a radical disconnect between the historic Church of Christ and the denominational preachers wearing the MASK of Church of Christ.

The multitude will be INSIDE THE CAMP which includes the Agora or Marketplace where Jesus consigned the pipers, singers and dancers. Music by the way almost DEMANDS dancing where the body gyrates in sync with the changing. Here is some more HISTORIC meaning of what IS the meaning of IS: you have to decide how fare grace will let you stray from the TEACHING and COMFORTING role: you know of no church which TEACHES that which is written and does not DISCOMFORT with everyone working their little pin heads off trying to "keep up" and make my part the loudest: the seven spirits to rest on Christ the branch (Isa 11) says God does NOT judge by what He SEES or HEARS so as in Corinth you are just "speaking into the air."

Swiss, and later, French, English, and Scottish Calvinism promoted the singing of metrical translations of the psalter (see psalmody), austerely set for unaccompanied unison singing . English and Scottish Protestantism admitted only the singing of psalms. English metrical psalms were set to tunes adapted from the French and Genevan psalters. These were fairly complex melodies written on French metres. The English psalter used only a few metres, and the custom of singing each psalm to its proper tune was soon replaced by the use of a few common tunes . The common metre 8, 6, 8, 6 (the numbers give the number of syllables in each line), a form of English ballad metre, remains the archetypal English hymn metre.

Note: Alexander Campbell's song book allowed only 5 melodies.

The principal impetus to English hymnody came in the late 17th century from the Independent (Congregationalist) hymn writer Isaac Watts (Hymns and Spiritual Songs; 170519). The evangelical revival of the mid-18th century under John and Charles Wesley, founders of Methodism, finally established hymnody in England and America. Charles Wesleys many poems use a variety of experimental metres, and John Wesleys translations introduced many of the finest German hymns. The Wesleys also adopted many German tunes, and their later editions contain much music in the style of Handel.

The Church of England accepted hymn singing officially only in 1820 , following a controversy arising from the singing of hymns at a Sheffield church. The Oxford (High Church) Movement, begun in 1833, stimulated new compositions, translations of medieval hymns, and use of plainsong melodies. The present era of English hymnody dates from the publication of Hymns Ancient and Modern (1861; last rev. ed., 1950), characterized by austerity of style, conformity to the Anglican Book of Common Prayer, and the setting of each hymn to its proper tune.


The Church of England voted to REMOVE the organ but was vetoed by Queen Elizabath--the head of the church--because the organ was part of the national ceremonial pomp Just as in Jerusalem.

So people gonna do what people gonna do: just don't call yourself a New Testament Church of Christ.
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Fred Whaley
Fred Whaley

March 9th, 2011, 6:54 pm #8

We need not give much attention to the ravings of Fred, a man who thinks he can "reform" people by talking like Elmer Fudd.
Your sentence is 32.674% twue doc.

Examples for 100% accuracy:

1) We need to give much attention to the statements of Fred, a man who is reforming people by talking like Elmer Fudd.

2) We need not give much attention to the teachings of Ken, a man who thinks he can "reform" people by teaching commandments of men.

Fwed Whaley
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

March 9th, 2011, 7:04 pm #9

Fred is beyond surprised that Ken teaches that it is wrong to sing EVEN VOCALLY to God. Under the title......"When A Congregation Elects To Use Instruments Of Music In Its Worship" Ken states on March 8, 2011 at 11:23 a.m. in his concluding paragraph for the first sentence........"It was unlawful for the godly people to make vocal or instrumental rejoicing which was a style making School of the Word impossible."

Ken is saying it is unlawful for godly people to make VOCAL rejoicing to God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ken is a false teacher! He is teaching the commandments of m(K)en!

There are numerous Scriptures that say to sing to God!

Every church Fred knows of in America and in the entire world sing to God!

Maybe............JUST MAYBE...........KEN is wrong and not EVERYONE ELSE in the Christian world.

Folks beware of the commandments of Ken!!!!

Folks beware of the false teachers here at Concerned Members!!!!

I love the Church of Christ but the Church of Christ does not teach that it is wrong to sing vocally to God - just Ken (and maybe his cohorts Dr. Crump and Donnie Cruz).

Fred Whaley
When the men lie, cheat and steal to make a place in the mainstream for their singy-clappys who both enchant and repulse, they always try to set brother againsnt brother and even family against family: "you may have to choose between instrumental music and your family." Even the Stepford sisters step in and enable a wife to support her as she divorces her husband. It is SOoooo prophetic.

That is the MARK that people KNOW they are defeated but based on all recorded evidence when they have been seduced away from the Living Word by mixed-sex choirs, wearing of apparel (clergy) and instrumental music they will always be seduced into sexual and homosexual relationships (Romans 1 speaking of Mount Sinai) even if it is VIRTUAL sex as the musicators make them move in sumphonia and even boast of it being a sexual-like climax with the spirit.

Donnie can tell you that Madison is a DIVIDED and divisive congregation with the two styles of singing as a visual aid. There is nothing in church history outside of the charismatics line the end-time Babylon mother of harlots (Rev 17) using the lusted after fruits (Rev 18) as speakers, singers and instrument players John calls SORCERERS.

http://www.piney.com/Romans.1.html

The same ones not permitted to read black text on brown paper cannot read Paul's use of the word faith which allows them to post weasel words about baptism but clearly denying the prophecies of Christ and the direct commands of Jesus: strong delusions means lying wonders which means

Lying Wonders: -Teratourg-eô, A. WORK wonders, pseudôsti Sch.Pi.I.7(6).13.

Lying is -Pseudes 2. fiction (opposite logos, historic
- Muthos
2. fiction (Opposite logos, historic truth)

logos , o(, verbal noun of legō (B), with senses corresponding to legō (B) II and III (on the various senses of the word v. Opposite Pathos or peacher's tales
Opposite epagōg-ē , 2. bringing in to one's aid, introduction, 4. allurement, enticement b. incantation, spell, leading away into captivity.

Aristot. Rh. 3.6.3 [3] Use metaphors and epithets by way of illustration, taking care, however, to avoid what is too poetical. Aristot. Rh. 3.6.7 Poets also make use of this in inventing words, as a melody "without strings" or "without the lyre"; for they employ epithets from negations, a course which is approved in proportional metaphors, as for instance, to say that tNhe sound of the trumpet is a melody without the lyre.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

March 9th, 2011, 7:12 pm #10

Your sentence is 32.674% twue doc.

Examples for 100% accuracy:

1) We need to give much attention to the statements of Fred, a man who is reforming people by talking like Elmer Fudd.

2) We need not give much attention to the teachings of Ken, a man who thinks he can "reform" people by teaching commandments of men.

Fwed Whaley
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Fred,

Be careful. You're teaching that which the Scripture commands NOT. You just don't know it. Or, you know it but you command it anyway.[/color]
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