The Commandments of m(K)en

Fred Whaley
Fred Whaley

March 10th, 2011, 2:25 pm #21

Is a cappella singing acceptable to God in a worship assembly?

No! Absolutely No, No, No. A Cappella is "after the Sistine Chapel." The pope returning from exile in France brought castrated opry singers to "perform" in the Sistine Chapel where using instruments in the "vicar of Christ's" presence in the OFFICIAL mass could not be used.

The castrated singers sang in the style of ORGANUM or after the pipe organ. The a cappellas would be a "musical worship team" replace the congregational singing of the whole to TEACH and ADMONISH with "that which is written."

When in the recent past the law outlawed the castrating of youth composers began composing "Trouser's Songs." This is what you hear in all modern performance singing by men who have submerged their masculine voice and are able to "thuse" both male and female.

They have FOOLED those who can be fooled with the invented word ACappella which is NOT related to congregational singing.

Remember that because of musical idolatry God abandoned the Jews to worship the starry host.

Remember that capella MARKS the worship of the stary host. Capella or Caper was a GOAT: they burnt the goats in Jerusalem instead of burning infants.

So, you have completed the cycle: the serpent bites its tail

Remember that many end-time preacherlings lisp out the term Je Zeus making you THINK that they are speaking of Yeshuwa. They are saying Hail Zeus!

-Capella (Aix). The brightest star in the constellation of the Auriga, or Charioteer, and said to have been originally the nymph or goat who nursed the infant Zeus in Crete. See Amalthea; Zeus.

-Aix: , aix ourania in Com. as a source of mysterious and suspected wealth, in allusion to the horn of Amalthea, Cratin.244; ouranion aiga ploutophoron Com.Adesp.8 ; aix tên machairan (sc. hêure), of those who 'ask for trouble', Zen.1.27; aix oupô tetoken 'don't count your chickens before they are hatched'

-Delicatus, I. That gives pleasure, i. e. alluring, charming, delightful; luxurious, voluptuous. delicatiores in cantu flexiones, soft, tender, delicate (poet. and in post-Aug. prose):B. Transf., capella, Cat. 20, 10; cf.: puella tenellulo delicatior haedo,

-Capella , 2. As a term of reproach, a dirty fellow, Amm. 17, 12; 24, 8 (cf. canicula).II. A star on the left shoulder of the constellation Auriga (usu. called capra),

-Cancla , ae, f. dim. canis.
I. A small dog or bitch, Plin. 32, 7, 26, § 79.Hence,
B. Trop., of a passionate, quarrelsome woman, Plaut. Curc. 5, 1, 8; Gell. 4, 20, 3.\
In-snus D. Enthusiastic, enraptured, inspired: vates, Verg. A. 3, 443


Paul following Jesus said that worship must be IN THE SPIRIT (place) as opposed to IN THE FLESH (place) as the only way to MARK AND AVOID the Dogs which were CYNICS identified by their howling old style praise songs seeking to "devour" the lambs..

Capella gave rise to the "goat songs" or people who got a goat as a prize for singing. It also gave rise to tragedy or the sad, tear-jerking songs we love so much.

Down hear we barbecue the capellas for after church. Capella is also called the 'Scape Goat.' Since truth is hidden in parables, isn't it funny that the Levites servied in that capacity and the capella or goats serve as Scape Goats for the congregation which lusts for them but do not want to receive the certain punishment.

Ken's answer is "NO" and "Absolutely no, no, no" to a cappella singing being acceptable worship.

Fred Whaley
Quote
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

March 10th, 2011, 6:01 pm #22

The purpose for the Jews sacrificing GOATS as a burnt offering to appease Israel (the instrumental sect) is not clear. They burned infants just before Rick Atchley's (etal) use of 2 Chronicles 20 claim that "god commanded instrumental praise" and therefore launches headlong into first CAPELLA and then INSTRUMENTS to make a great noise.

Caper , pri, m. [cf. kapros, wild boar] ,
I. a he-goat, a goat. sacrificed to Bacchus (because injurious to the vine),
II. Transf., the odor of the armpits (cf. capra), Cat. 69, 6; imitated by Ovid, Ov. A. A. 3, 193 .--
B. A star in the left shoulder of the constellation Auriga (also called capella),
C. The name of a kind of fish found in the river Acheloüs said to make a grunting sound,


Sound like CCM?

God abandoned them to worship the STARRY HOST of which Capella is dominant. Therefore, Plutarch makes clear

Question VI What God is Worshipped by the Jews.

When all the company requested and earnestly begged it of him; first of all (says he), the time and manner of the greatest and most holy solemnity of the Jews is exactly agreeable to the holy rites of Bacchus; for that which they call the Fast they celebrate in the midst of the vintage, furnishing their tables with all sorts of fruits while they sit under tabernacles made of vines and ivy; and the day which immediately goes before this they call the day of Tabernacles.

Within a few days after they celebrate another feast, not darkly but openly, dedicated to Bacchus, for they have a feast amongst them called Kradephoria, from carrying palm-trees, and Thyrsophoria, when they enter into the temple carrying thyrsi.

What they do within I know not; but it is very probable that they perform the rites of Bacchus. First they have little trumpets, such as the Grecians used to have at their Bacchanalia to call upon their gods withal.

Others go before them playing upon harps, which they call Levites, whether so named from Lusius or Evius,--either word agrees with Bacchus.

And I suppose that their Sabbaths have some relation to Bacchus; for even now many call the Bacchi by the name of Sabbi, and they make use of that word at the celebration of Bacchus's orgies.

And this may be discovered out of Demosthenes and Menander. Nor would it be out of place, were any one to say that the name Sabbath was given to this feast from the agitation and excitement which the priests of Bacchus display.


http://www.piney.com/MuTammuz.html

You simply cannot believe that anyone who has made preaching a profession has any ability or interest or need to understand the text beyond defending the status-quo. Only wild predestined men are so smelly that they would take the CONDEMNATION of the Jews and use that as a PATTERNISM for their institute organized like a tower of Babel.


I am certain that no hireling-changeling willing to lie, cheat and steal from widows understands that no godly, non-tribe of Levi could enter into that inner court where you see the smoke ascending.
Quote
Like
Share

Scotty
Scotty

March 10th, 2011, 6:52 pm #23

Fred IS obeying Scripture. Read Romans 16:16-17

"Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ send greetings. I urge YOU, BROTHERS, to watch out [KJV says to 'MARK'] for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way THAT ARE CONTRARY TO THE TEACHING YOU HAVE LEARNED. Keep away from them."

Fred as a Christian brother is marking Ken for teaching that which is contrary to what the church of Christ teaches from the Apostolic writings in the New Testament. Paul exhorts us to SING and make melody in our heart to the Lord. Ken says that "vocal" SINGING is not authorized.

Out of fairness Fred has provided him an opportunity below to clear the air if there is some mistake in interpreting his words.

Fred Whaley
Fred,

I commend your efforts to shine the light on Ken and his supporters. His website and this one reminds me of the defense by the 16th century martyr, Michael Sattler. He said, "We must not defend ourselves against the Turks and others of our persecutors, but are to beseech God with earnest prayer to repel and resist them. But that I said, that if warring were right, I would rather take the field against the so-called Christians, who persecute, apprehend and kill pious Christians, than against the Turks, was for this reason: The Turk is a true Turk, knows nothing of the Christian faith; and is a Turk after the flesh; but you, who would be Christians, and who make your boast of Christ, persecute the pious witnesses of Christ, and are Turks after the spirit."

Let us be Christians in the faith and in the spirit, and not Turks who persecute those who follow Christ.
Quote
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

March 10th, 2011, 8:13 pm #24

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Scotty,

"Let us be Christians in the faith," you say. We all strive to do just that -- that includes you, Fred and me.

But that is not the issue in discussing doctrinal differences even among members of the church. Neither is "love." In fact, agape love has nothing to do with "emotional" affection or posting messages. Rather, love has to do with keeping God's commandments and serving our neighbors.

That leaves us with the DIFFERENCE in how we RESPECT God's authority over matters that relate to His commandments and specifications.

So, if you are willing to join in discussing matters about the use or playing of musical devices in the assembly of New Testament saints, please feel free to do so.[/color]
Quote
Like
Share

Dave
Dave

March 11th, 2011, 4:21 am #25

Fred is beyond surprised that Ken teaches that it is wrong to sing EVEN VOCALLY to God. Under the title......"When A Congregation Elects To Use Instruments Of Music In Its Worship" Ken states on March 8, 2011 at 11:23 a.m. in his concluding paragraph for the first sentence........"It was unlawful for the godly people to make vocal or instrumental rejoicing which was a style making School of the Word impossible."

Ken is saying it is unlawful for godly people to make VOCAL rejoicing to God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ken is a false teacher! He is teaching the commandments of m(K)en!

There are numerous Scriptures that say to sing to God!

Every church Fred knows of in America and in the entire world sing to God!

Maybe............JUST MAYBE...........KEN is wrong and not EVERYONE ELSE in the Christian world.

Folks beware of the commandments of Ken!!!!

Folks beware of the false teachers here at Concerned Members!!!!

I love the Church of Christ but the Church of Christ does not teach that it is wrong to sing vocally to God - just Ken (and maybe his cohorts Dr. Crump and Donnie Cruz).

Fred Whaley
Ken,
Fred asked the question "Is a cappella singing acceptable to God in a worship assembly?"
You answered....."No! Absolutely No, No, No. A Cappella is "after the Sistine Chapel."
Then you say "The a cappellas would be a "musical worship team" replace the congregational singing of the whole to TEACH and ADMONISH with "that which is written."

Ken, even though you aren't capable of comprehending you still need to UNDERSTAND......A capella is the same as congregational singing and you know it. You continue to want to sound like you know old English, a wanna-be phd, but you can't even handle simple grammar. So quit trying to sound intellectual; act like a man and answer the question by Fred.
Quote
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

March 11th, 2011, 9:10 am #26

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

It is noteworthy that you quoted Ken's remarks that clearly make the distinction between:

(1) "A Cappella"
--------- and -----------
(2) Congregational singing.

It's sad and unfortunate that "a cappella" has become an expression to mean solely "without instruments." Yet historically, in the original sense of the expression, Ken has correctly and accurately identified it as being "after the Sistine Chapel" or "in the chapel," etc. Associated with that is the pope's Choir Boys or in modern times the Mormon Tabernacle Choir or the Baptist Choir. And the progressive "Church of Christ" Praise Team is not far and different from the aforementioned choir groups.

How would you, Fred and Dave, feel if the Roman Catholic Church's Choir Boys or the Mormon Tabernacle Choir or the Baptist Choir performed its musical numbers during your "worship" hour in your congregation?

That is the kind of music [choir performances], singing with or without instruments, that which the New Testament does not speak of as "woroship."

As I have explained over and over, Ken has no objection to congregational singing in which "speaking to yourselves in ... songs" or "teaching and admonishing one another in ... songs" [which implies an "assembly"] is involved. That is the directive specified in the commonly quoted passages -- Colossians 3:16; Ephesians 5:19.

One of the primary objectives in the assembly of saints is to "let the word of Christ dwell in you richly" (again: Col. 3:16). That is accomplished by "teaching and admonishing one another."

Do not add the professional services of the "Praise Team" to God's directive.

Do not add the use and PLAY of inanimate, lifeless musical devices to God's directive.

The change agents in the brotherhood are slick and subtle. Their motive is to start out with the "Praise Team" and graduate to instrumental music.

The Oak Hills Church (formerly "of Christ") did so according to plan -- "Praise Team" first; instrumental music ensued. It is now a Community Church.

The former Richland Hills Church of Christ did so according to plan -- "Praise Team" first; instrumental music ensued. Is the Richland Hills congregation a Community Church still clinging to be a church of Christ congregation? Or, does it want to belong to the Christian Church denomination?

Somewhat fortunately for the Madison church, it hasn't gone farther than using the services of the Praise Team. I would say that the plan to become a Community Church with IM was halted along the way.[/color]
Quote
Like
Share

Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

March 11th, 2011, 12:45 pm #27

Ken,
Fred asked the question "Is a cappella singing acceptable to God in a worship assembly?"
You answered....."No! Absolutely No, No, No. A Cappella is "after the Sistine Chapel."
Then you say "The a cappellas would be a "musical worship team" replace the congregational singing of the whole to TEACH and ADMONISH with "that which is written."

Ken, even though you aren't capable of comprehending you still need to UNDERSTAND......A capella is the same as congregational singing and you know it. You continue to want to sound like you know old English, a wanna-be phd, but you can't even handle simple grammar. So quit trying to sound intellectual; act like a man and answer the question by Fred.
Dave wrote of Ken: "You continue to want to sound like you know old English, a wanna-be phd [sic], but you can't even handle simple grammar." With as many grammatical errors as Dave has on display in the SGP thread, Dave is in NO position to criticize another person's grammar!

Here's just one more example: The correct way to write the abbreviation is "Ph.D.," NOT "phd."
Quote
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

March 11th, 2011, 6:13 pm #28

Jimmy gave me great pain when I spelled Ph.D as "Phduh!" Nevertheless, it is a fact that there probably aren't any preachers trained as Liberal Artists or schools of preaching who knows or needs to know about the Old Testament story line or can define words as MINIMAL foundation for selling your BODY as a "doctor of the law."

Musical Worship Teams spell it ACappella and not a cappella (capella): This is to convince everyone that "a cappella" is Vocal only. Joseph Campbell in Myths we Live By spoke of "affect immages." When you have a church of Christ choir and call it ACappella conceiving to deceive they want to say that this is just "congregational singing." ACappella or ANY music team INTENDS to entertain: In Donnie's area they call it "Holy entertainment" A-PDC or after the purpose driven church which at the time imported a Tithing teacher who lusted for the time the churches could raise people from the dead. I understand the Founder upon which they rest their souls now claims to speak to the dead. LU is deeply into "Spiritual Formation" which believes that meditating on a word causes a spirit to speak to you "beyond the sacred pages." A giant outburst of demonism ia s sure sign: earthquakes WILL get worse and worse as we wobble through the elicptic of the galaxy again after about 6,500 years.

Congregational singing was never called "ACappella" but congregational singing: Paul said use ONE MIND and ONE MOUTH which leaves on room for any room for 5 mouths overpowering the OTHER mouths: we call them loud mouths and they WANT you to watch them PERFORM FOR you. Teaching or memorizing can be achieved by singing: it is not called worship in the ceremonial sense but DISCIPLING. A disciple of Christ goes to A School of Christ.

If you call Bible things by Bible names you break the knee caps of those Paul called dogs and John called sorcerers. Cuane Galles:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/LITURGY/HERALD4.TXT

In late antiquity and in the early middle ages the (scholae cantorum) or chant schools attached to the cathedrals in Rome and in the great provincial cities were also the important centers of learning and music.

During this period the Roman chant school proved the great training ground for future popes and Saint Gregory the Great was among its most illustrious alumni. Besides music, it provided instruction in literature and philosophy and like the Ecclesiastical Academy (papal school of diplomacy) in our own time, served as the great training center of popes and Roman curialists.

A change in the Roman (schola cantorum) came about as a result of the Avignonese papacy or Babylonian Captivity as Luther called it. Whilst living in France the popes engaged French musicians who employed the (ars nova) or new polyphonic style. Pope Gregory XI (1370-1378), born Pierre Roger de Beaufort, bore a blue bend within a border of six red roses on a silver field.

When he ended the Babylonian Captivity by returning the papacy to Rome in 1377, he merged his group of French musicians with the (schola cantorum) which had remained in Rome.

As a result thereafter the papal singers, called the (collegio dei cappellani cantori della cappella pontificia), now expanded their repertoire to include polyphony as well as plainchant.

The fifteenth and sixteenth centuries proved a remarkable period in the choir's history: Its golden age lasted until the mid seventh century. Pope Sixtus IV (1471-1484), a Della Rovere who bore their uprooted golden oak on a blue field, founded the Sistine chapel as the fixed abode for ordinary papal ceremonies and ended the traditional peregrinations of the popes and their retinues to the various stational churches of Rome.

As a result his musicians came to be known popularly after the chapel in which they sang and so became the Sistine choir. The choir was the patronage of music.


The Catholic-Based churches called them "Levites" to assist the Pope as Christ or High Priest: they performed NATIONAL worship which never depended on the masses. As lat as the 1911 Catholic Encyclopedia it was unlawful to use the organ (only) in the presence of the Pope who performed FOR the masses. The NACC is is the mother of the hireling-changelings who appeal to the Levites and it is natural that all such teams or CHOIRS have no need for the people other than as spectators.
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on March 11th, 2011, 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

March 11th, 2011, 7:09 pm #29

What we might call music was teaching the message of Christ to the poor and illiterate: What some call ACappella is really "falsetto" which seeks to imitate the castrated boys and songs were written to fit that voice.

Before starting the service, the priest and deacons put off their clothes, which they use in their daily life. They wear other clothes sanctified by the prayer of the bishop and dedicated for the service of the Lord.

In the Old Testament, the high Priest's special dress represented his function as mediator between God and man1. Over the trousers, coat, girdle, and cap, worn by all priests, the high priests wore an EPHOD, a two piece apron reaching to his hips, made of royal colors (blue, purple, and scarlet), and sewed with gold thread. By two onyx stones bearing the names of the twelve tribes of Israel fastened to the shoulders of the ephod, he brought the whole nation before God in all his Priestly acts (Ex. 28:5-14).


You will remember that David had no right to wear the High Priest's Ephod. He further stripped off the Ephod or was effectively NAKED when he prophesied (soothsayed) with musical instruments and the camp follower girls.

David, and therefore the Musical Worship Teams boast (Shelly) that they can bring you into the presence of God: sometimes they wear robes or "stola" which was the garment of the prostitute. At all times they PLAY the role of Jesus Christ as High Priest. They claim, therefore to BE God standing in the holy place (of church architecture.)


2.... He also recounts a famous incident relating to Farinelli, in which a female audience member spontaneously cried out during a performance, "One God, one Farinelli!"

4 According to Angus Heriot, "one Spanish singer in the papal chapel, Padre Soto, first heard of in 1562, is referred to by Della Valle as one of the earliest of the castrati, but appears in the Vatican records as a falsettist,

5. It is often supposed that the rise of castrati in Italy was caused by the rise of opera. According to John Rosselli, however, castrati were not so much caused by opera as coincidental with it, nor did the taste for the castrato's voice immediately dominate the new form. According to Rosselli, "Chronology, if anything, might suggest that the popular taste for the castrato voice reflected in the singers chosen for opera was largely created by church practice. . . .
......A castrato sang the prologue and two female parts in Monteverdi's L'Orfeo at Mantua in 1607, but the lead part was sung by a tenor.

Several decades were to go by before the custom became established of having a castrato singing the protagonist's part" (147).
I have never heard of congregational singing SOWING DISCORD within the Church of Christ: performance falsetto's even without instruments drive out up to 1/2 of the "owners." I am not sure why many people RUN FROM THE HILLS but the persona of performance boy singers has NO exception in recorded history. The story of the "locusts" or muses may account for people with the Spirit Mark fleeing Babylon.

Last edited by Ken.Sublett on March 11th, 2011, 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Dave
Dave

March 11th, 2011, 7:45 pm #30

Fred is beyond surprised that Ken teaches that it is wrong to sing EVEN VOCALLY to God. Under the title......"When A Congregation Elects To Use Instruments Of Music In Its Worship" Ken states on March 8, 2011 at 11:23 a.m. in his concluding paragraph for the first sentence........"It was unlawful for the godly people to make vocal or instrumental rejoicing which was a style making School of the Word impossible."

Ken is saying it is unlawful for godly people to make VOCAL rejoicing to God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ken is a false teacher! He is teaching the commandments of m(K)en!

There are numerous Scriptures that say to sing to God!

Every church Fred knows of in America and in the entire world sing to God!

Maybe............JUST MAYBE...........KEN is wrong and not EVERYONE ELSE in the Christian world.

Folks beware of the commandments of Ken!!!!

Folks beware of the false teachers here at Concerned Members!!!!

I love the Church of Christ but the Church of Christ does not teach that it is wrong to sing vocally to God - just Ken (and maybe his cohorts Dr. Crump and Donnie Cruz).

Fred Whaley
William Crump, is this the spelling, grammar, and punctuation thread?
Didn't think so.
It is, however, another great chance for you to show that you could care less about the topic, and another great chance to try and get even because you feel someone has shown that your response to the thread is incorrect.

Quote
Share