Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

March 9th, 2011, 7:13 pm #11

Fred is beyond surprised that Ken teaches that it is wrong to sing EVEN VOCALLY to God. Under the title......"When A Congregation Elects To Use Instruments Of Music In Its Worship" Ken states on March 8, 2011 at 11:23 a.m. in his concluding paragraph for the first sentence........"It was unlawful for the godly people to make vocal or instrumental rejoicing which was a style making School of the Word impossible."

Ken is saying it is unlawful for godly people to make VOCAL rejoicing to God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ken is a false teacher! He is teaching the commandments of m(K)en!

There are numerous Scriptures that say to sing to God!

Every church Fred knows of in America and in the entire world sing to God!

Maybe............JUST MAYBE...........KEN is wrong and not EVERYONE ELSE in the Christian world.

Folks beware of the commandments of Ken!!!!

Folks beware of the false teachers here at Concerned Members!!!!

I love the Church of Christ but the Church of Christ does not teach that it is wrong to sing vocally to God - just Ken (and maybe his cohorts Dr. Crump and Donnie Cruz).

Fred Whaley
Ken has NO burden to REFORM or CONVERT: all of the recorded evidence proves that when you make the "music means spirit at worship connection" you have fallen and will never get up.

My job is to witness: Revelation 18 proves that when the false preachers, singers and instrument players cast Christ out of their public confession, they are REMOVED by Christ Who visited for the last time to remove all of the LAMPS. Instruments are most often in the Bible used as the MARK of those who tell God "shut your mouth." Amos 5; Isaiah 5; Job 21 and coming to a Circe near you.

Those who lie and cheat about all of the "instrument" passages they can connect CANNOT read the context and being sent strong delusions CANNOT believe the truth because Christ FORCES them to believe their own lies so that the burning has already begun by their own lips:

An ungodly man diggeth up evil: and in his lips there is as a burning fire. Proverbs 16:27
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Fred Whaley
Fred Whaley

March 9th, 2011, 7:37 pm #12

Ken deals what IS the meaning of IS is: it doesn't matter what the massed multitudes do because Jesus invited the TWOS AND THREES to come outside the camp, rest and LEARN OF ME. Christ commanded that for the Church of Christ as synagogue in the wilderness. There is surely a radical disconnect between the historic Church of Christ and the denominational preachers wearing the MASK of Church of Christ.

The multitude will be INSIDE THE CAMP which includes the Agora or Marketplace where Jesus consigned the pipers, singers and dancers. Music by the way almost DEMANDS dancing where the body gyrates in sync with the changing. Here is some more HISTORIC meaning of what IS the meaning of IS: you have to decide how fare grace will let you stray from the TEACHING and COMFORTING role: you know of no church which TEACHES that which is written and does not DISCOMFORT with everyone working their little pin heads off trying to "keep up" and make my part the loudest: the seven spirits to rest on Christ the branch (Isa 11) says God does NOT judge by what He SEES or HEARS so as in Corinth you are just "speaking into the air."

Swiss, and later, French, English, and Scottish Calvinism promoted the singing of metrical translations of the psalter (see psalmody), austerely set for unaccompanied unison singing . English and Scottish Protestantism admitted only the singing of psalms. English metrical psalms were set to tunes adapted from the French and Genevan psalters. These were fairly complex melodies written on French metres. The English psalter used only a few metres, and the custom of singing each psalm to its proper tune was soon replaced by the use of a few common tunes . The common metre 8, 6, 8, 6 (the numbers give the number of syllables in each line), a form of English ballad metre, remains the archetypal English hymn metre.

Note: Alexander Campbell's song book allowed only 5 melodies.

The principal impetus to English hymnody came in the late 17th century from the Independent (Congregationalist) hymn writer Isaac Watts (Hymns and Spiritual Songs; 170519). The evangelical revival of the mid-18th century under John and Charles Wesley, founders of Methodism, finally established hymnody in England and America. Charles Wesleys many poems use a variety of experimental metres, and John Wesleys translations introduced many of the finest German hymns. The Wesleys also adopted many German tunes, and their later editions contain much music in the style of Handel.

The Church of England accepted hymn singing officially only in 1820 , following a controversy arising from the singing of hymns at a Sheffield church. The Oxford (High Church) Movement, begun in 1833, stimulated new compositions, translations of medieval hymns, and use of plainsong melodies. The present era of English hymnody dates from the publication of Hymns Ancient and Modern (1861; last rev. ed., 1950), characterized by austerity of style, conformity to the Anglican Book of Common Prayer, and the setting of each hymn to its proper tune.


The Church of England voted to REMOVE the organ but was vetoed by Queen Elizabath--the head of the church--because the organ was part of the national ceremonial pomp Just as in Jerusalem.

So people gonna do what people gonna do: just don't call yourself a New Testament Church of Christ.
KEN'S WORDS --

The multitude will be INSIDE THE CAMP which includes the Agora or Marketplace where Jesus consigned the pipers, singers and dancers. Music by the way almost DEMANDS dancing where the body gyrates in sync with the changing. Here is some more HISTORIC meaning of what IS the meaning of IS: you have to decide how fare grace will let you stray from the TEACHING and COMFORTING role: you know of no church which TEACHES that which is written and does not DISCOMFORT with everyone working their little pin heads off trying to "keep up" and make my part the loudest: the seven spirits to rest on Christ the branch (Isa 11) says God does NOT judge by what He SEES or HEARS so as in Corinth you are just "speaking into the air."


Donnie C. pay attention to KEN'S words (Dave and Fred are not making this stuff up) - "singers" are consigned to the marketplace. [not just pipers]

Donnie C. pay attention to KEN'S words (Dave and Fred are not making this stuff up) - you know of "no church" which teaches that which is written. [EVERYONE is wrong including the a cappella churches]

Donnie C. pay attention to KEN'S words (Dave and Fred are not making this stuff up) - trying to keep up and make "my part the loudest." [referencing 4-part harmony of the a cappella style of singing/worship]

Yes Ken always covers MUSIC DANCERS and SEX but ALMOST always includes SINGING and/or VOCAL in his statements as well.



Ken -- here is your opportunity to "SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT" -- Is a cappella singing acceptable to God in a worship assembly?

Yes? No?

Fred Whaley
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Fred Whaley
Fred Whaley

March 9th, 2011, 7:47 pm #13

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Fred,

Be careful. You're teaching that which the Scripture commands NOT. You just don't know it. Or, you know it but you command it anyway.[/color]
Fred IS obeying Scripture. Read Romans 16:16-17

"Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ send greetings. I urge YOU, BROTHERS, to watch out [KJV says to 'MARK'] for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way THAT ARE CONTRARY TO THE TEACHING YOU HAVE LEARNED. Keep away from them."

Fred as a Christian brother is marking Ken for teaching that which is contrary to what the church of Christ teaches from the Apostolic writings in the New Testament. Paul exhorts us to SING and make melody in our heart to the Lord. Ken says that "vocal" SINGING is not authorized.

Out of fairness Fred has provided him an opportunity below to clear the air if there is some mistake in interpreting his words.

Fred Whaley
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

March 9th, 2011, 8:48 pm #14

Fred is beyond surprised that Ken teaches that it is wrong to sing EVEN VOCALLY to God. Under the title......"When A Congregation Elects To Use Instruments Of Music In Its Worship" Ken states on March 8, 2011 at 11:23 a.m. in his concluding paragraph for the first sentence........"It was unlawful for the godly people to make vocal or instrumental rejoicing which was a style making School of the Word impossible."

Ken is saying it is unlawful for godly people to make VOCAL rejoicing to God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ken is a false teacher! He is teaching the commandments of m(K)en!

There are numerous Scriptures that say to sing to God!

Every church Fred knows of in America and in the entire world sing to God!

Maybe............JUST MAYBE...........KEN is wrong and not EVERYONE ELSE in the Christian world.

Folks beware of the commandments of Ken!!!!

Folks beware of the false teachers here at Concerned Members!!!!

I love the Church of Christ but the Church of Christ does not teach that it is wrong to sing vocally to God - just Ken (and maybe his cohorts Dr. Crump and Donnie Cruz).

Fred Whaley
The hireling-changelings make no attempt to understand the Word of Christ in the Prophets and Apostles because, as proven by most forums, people do not WANT to hear from God: that is the MARK of music.

They are utterly blind to the fact that Jesus said that "doctors of the law take away the key to knowledge" and that Scribes and Pharisees as hypocrites are slick speakers, singers and instrument players.

Nor can they read that there wil be NO Canannite (trader) in the house of God: no counters of podiums, no takers of shekels, no wise sophists etal in The Church of Christ. Instruments according to Christ in Isaiah 30 is proof that He has begun driving them into hell with the sounds of wind, string and percussion instruments: these were brought into the garden of Eden as "the singing and harp playing prostitute.

1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe?
....where is the disputer of this world?
....hath not God made foolish [moronic] the wisdom of this world?


Scribe: Grammatikos a scholar 2. one who occupies himself with literary texts, grammarian, 3. concerned with textual criticism, exêgêsis similar to hermeneuma

D.S. 2.29 ; II. explanation, interpretation, Nomos experts in the laws or traditions.
often of the forms of melody used by the muses to work sorcery.

Paul is commenting on Christ in the prophets ALL of whom repudiate the appeal to the Levites tasked to worship the starry host on their way to the Lake of Fire:

The captain of fifty, and the honourable man, and the counsellor, and the cunning artificer, and the eloquent orator. Isa 3:3

The COUNSELLORS you hire by the droves to replace the vocational deacons.

consilia-rius , a, um, adj. [consilium]
II. Esp.
A. T. t., an assessor, aid in a court of justice, Suet. Tib. 55; id. Claud. 12.--
B. Of the augur as the interpreter of the divine will: consiliarius atque administer Jovis, Cic. Leg. 3, 19, 43<font>

The WISE artificer is:

spo , b. [select] To suggest, be inspired by: quia non sapis ea quae Dei sunt, Vulg. Matt. 16, 23; id. Marc. 8, 33.

sophos , , on, Margites Fr.2; but in this sense mostly of poets and musicians, Pi.O.1.9, P.1.42, 3.113; en kithara s. E.IT1238 (lyr.), cf. Ar.Ra.896 (lyr.), also en oinois, kithara, E. IT662, 1238 (lyr.)


The CHILDREN who want weeping widows to die or move away are:

And I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them. Isa 3:4

Consistent with ALL recorded history, religious music is the realm of the gender benders.

ef-femno , vi, tum, 1, v. a. femina, II. Trop., to make womanish, effeminate, to enervate:
effeminata et enervis compositio, Quint. 9, 4, 142; cf. id. 1, 8, 2; 2, 5, 10 al.
fin.Sup.: animi languor, Q. Cic. ap. Cic. Fam. 16, 27. B. In mal. part., that submits to unnatural lust: pathicus, Suet. Aug. 68; Auct. Priap. 58, 2; Vulg. 3 Reg. 14, 24 al.Adv.: effmnte ,


This is the meaning of Grace as Charis: "In an erotic sense giving favors to another male."

Recorded in the literature not available to the Phds.

Cic. Planc. 35.86 The basest and most infamous consuls in the memory of man,as both the beginning of their conduct and as their recent termination of those affairs, show them to have been, (one of whom lost his army, and the other sold it,)having bought their provinces, had deserted the senate, and the republic, and all good men.

When no one knew what were the feelings of those men who by means of their armies, and their arms, and their riches,
<font color="#FFFFFF">....
were the most powerful men in the state,
....then that voice, rendered insane by its infamous debaucheries,
....made effeminate by its attendance on holy altars,
.... kept crying out in a most ferocious manner
....that both these men and the consuls were acting in concert with him.

Needy men were armed against the rich, abandoned men against the good, slaves against their masters.


And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbour: the child shall behave himself proudly against the ancient, and the base against the honourable. Isa 3:5</font>

tumultuor , tus, 1, I. v. dep. n. [tumultus], to make a bustle or disturbance, to be in great agitation or confusion, be in an uproar, raise a tumult:
II. Esp. of oratory, to storm, rant, talk at random,


Chris Seidman reviewed at New Wineskins boasts about how instruments made the ENERGY LEVEL rise up. That is the LADED BURDEN Jesus died to remove.
</font>
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Fred Whaley
Fred Whaley

March 9th, 2011, 9:23 pm #15

Consistent with ALL recorded history, religious music is the realm of the gender benders.

ef-femno , vi, tum, 1, v. a. femina, II. Trop., to make womanish, effeminate, to enervate:
effeminata et enervis compositio, Quint. 9, 4, 142; cf. id. 1, 8, 2; 2, 5, 10 al.
fin.Sup.: animi languor, Q. Cic. ap. Cic. Fam. 16, 27. B. In mal. part., that submits to unnatural lust: pathicus, Suet. Aug. 68; Auct. Priap. 58, 2; Vulg. 3 Reg. 14, 24 al.Adv.: effmnte ,

This is the meaning of Grace as Charis: "In an erotic sense giving favors to another male."

Recorded in the literature not available to the Phds.

Cic. Planc. 35.86 The basest and most infamous consuls in the memory of man,as both the beginning of their conduct and as their recent termination of those affairs, show them to have been, (one of whom lost his army, and the other sold it,)having bought their provinces, had deserted the senate, and the republic, and all good men.




Ken -- Fred's most disturbed of the non-biblical portion above is -- This is the meaning of Grace as Charis: "In an erotic sense giving favors to another male." Fred has never heard this teaching on grace before. Maybe you could teach this material on music to a teenage class at your local church?


Ken -- here is opportunity NUMBER TWO to "SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT" -- Is a cappella singing acceptable to God in a worship assembly?

Yes? No?

Fred Whaley
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

March 9th, 2011, 10:26 pm #16

Is a cappella singing acceptable to God in a worship assembly?

No! Absolutely No, No, No. A Cappella is "after the Sistine Chapel." The pope returning from exile in France brought castrated opry singers to "perform" in the Sistine Chapel where using instruments in the "vicar of Christ's" presence in the OFFICIAL mass could not be used.

The castrated singers sang in the style of ORGANUM or after the pipe organ. The a cappellas would be a "musical worship team" replace the congregational singing of the whole to TEACH and ADMONISH with "that which is written."

When in the recent past the law outlawed the castrating of youth composers began composing "Trouser's Songs." This is what you hear in all modern performance singing by men who have submerged their masculine voice and are able to "thuse" both male and female.

They have FOOLED those who can be fooled with the invented word ACappella which is NOT related to congregational singing.

Remember that because of musical idolatry God abandoned the Jews to worship the starry host.

Remember that capella MARKS the worship of the stary host. Capella or Caper was a GOAT: they burnt the goats in Jerusalem instead of burning infants.

So, you have completed the cycle: the serpent bites its tail

Remember that many end-time preacherlings lisp out the term Je Zeus making you THINK that they are speaking of Yeshuwa. They are saying Hail Zeus!

-Capella (Aix). The brightest star in the constellation of the Auriga, or Charioteer, and said to have been originally the nymph or goat who nursed the infant Zeus in Crete. See Amalthea; Zeus.

-Aix: , aix ourania in Com. as a source of mysterious and suspected wealth, in allusion to the horn of Amalthea, Cratin.244; ouranion aiga ploutophoron Com.Adesp.8 ; aix tên machairan (sc. hêure), of those who 'ask for trouble', Zen.1.27; aix oupô tetoken 'don't count your chickens before they are hatched'

-Delicatus, I. That gives pleasure, i. e. alluring, charming, delightful; luxurious, voluptuous. delicatiores in cantu flexiones, soft, tender, delicate (poet. and in post-Aug. prose):B. Transf., capella, Cat. 20, 10; cf.: puella tenellulo delicatior haedo,

-Capella , 2. As a term of reproach, a dirty fellow, Amm. 17, 12; 24, 8 (cf. canicula).II. A star on the left shoulder of the constellation Auriga (usu. called capra),

-Cancla , ae, f. dim. canis.
I. A small dog or bitch, Plin. 32, 7, 26, § 79.Hence,
B. Trop., of a passionate, quarrelsome woman, Plaut. Curc. 5, 1, 8; Gell. 4, 20, 3.\
In-snus D. Enthusiastic, enraptured, inspired: vates, Verg. A. 3, 443


Paul following Jesus said that worship must be IN THE SPIRIT (place) as opposed to IN THE FLESH (place) as the only way to MARK AND AVOID the Dogs which were CYNICS identified by their howling old style praise songs seeking to "devour" the lambs..

Capella gave rise to the "goat songs" or people who got a goat as a prize for singing. It also gave rise to tragedy or the sad, tear-jerking songs we love so much.

Down hear we barbecue the capellas for after church. Capella is also called the 'Scape Goat.' Since truth is hidden in parables, isn't it funny that the Levites servied in that capacity and the capella or goats serve as Scape Goats for the congregation which lusts for them but do not want to receive the certain punishment.


Last edited by Ken.Sublett on March 9th, 2011, 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

March 9th, 2011, 10:56 pm #17

Donnie C. pay attention to KEN'S words (Dave and Fred are not making this stuff up) - you know of "no church" which teaches that which is written.

Check whether your blue book or red book or gold book has any Biblical material commanded by Paul as "that which is written."

Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs are all WRITTEN: many of them are in the BOOK of Psalms. #150 is NOT a psalm, hymn or spiritual song.

There are 57 mizmors which Paul would see as the Greek "psalm." Only 50 of these were for common good and none of the ADD BY NAMING a musical instrument.

The Greek word PSALLO and all of its types was used by the translators of the Septuaging because THEY knew that psallo is first and foremost a MAKING WAR word of Apollo (Abaddon, Apollyon) making his bow string twang to send forth a singing arrow into a literal heart. Or, he might twang his lyre to send forth "a love arrow" into you. All of the psallo words used to PLAY a named stringed instrument ALL point to older males seducing a young male whose hairs had been "plucked." Paul alludes to them in Galatians 5 hoping their knife would slip and they would emasculate themselves.

There are only a few Hymns: Jesus and the Apostles "hymned a hymn" which is more like a prayer at Passover: the patternism is ONCE A YEAR: you hymn the hymn and GO OUT. These hallel hymns were NOT to be used as common enchantments or idols.

Spiritual songs are all "that which is written" you WILL NOT hear any of them this Sunday. The massed multitudes see "a law of singing" and are totally ignorant of the resource or purpose for singing: teaching and comfortint "With Scripture" says Paul in Romans 15.

One of the first HERESIES was the use of self-composed songs which the Catholic church condemned but could not stop even though "singing" was not congregational with organ accompaniment.

If you speak that which is written for our learning with ONE MIND and ONE MOUTH as the only way to glorify or praise god AT ANY TIME please let us all know. Only Psalmody Only Presbyterians make an attempt.

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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

March 10th, 2011, 2:41 am #18

KEN'S WORDS --

The multitude will be INSIDE THE CAMP which includes the Agora or Marketplace where Jesus consigned the pipers, singers and dancers. Music by the way almost DEMANDS dancing where the body gyrates in sync with the changing. Here is some more HISTORIC meaning of what IS the meaning of IS: you have to decide how fare grace will let you stray from the TEACHING and COMFORTING role: you know of no church which TEACHES that which is written and does not DISCOMFORT with everyone working their little pin heads off trying to "keep up" and make my part the loudest: the seven spirits to rest on Christ the branch (Isa 11) says God does NOT judge by what He SEES or HEARS so as in Corinth you are just "speaking into the air."


Donnie C. pay attention to KEN'S words (Dave and Fred are not making this stuff up) - "singers" are consigned to the marketplace. [not just pipers]

Donnie C. pay attention to KEN'S words (Dave and Fred are not making this stuff up) - you know of "no church" which teaches that which is written. [EVERYONE is wrong including the a cappella churches]

Donnie C. pay attention to KEN'S words (Dave and Fred are not making this stuff up) - trying to keep up and make "my part the loudest." [referencing 4-part harmony of the a cappella style of singing/worship]

Yes Ken always covers MUSIC DANCERS and SEX but ALMOST always includes SINGING and/or VOCAL in his statements as well.



Ken -- here is your opportunity to "SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT" -- Is a cappella singing acceptable to God in a worship assembly?

Yes? No?

Fred Whaley
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Fred (and Dave [per Fred Whaley]), pay attention to music history and Scripture.

(1) Music history reveals that "music ... almost DEMANDS dancing [and clapping] where the body gyrates in sync" with the tempo and/or change of tempo of the music.

(2) Scripture plainly reveals that dancing and musical instruments and even idolatry are connected in many instances. Here are a few of several passages in Scripture:[/color]
  • And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances. (Exo. 15:20)

    </li>
  • And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount. (Exo. 32:19)

    </li>
  • And it came to pass as they came, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet king Saul, with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of music. (I Sam. 18:6)

    </li>
  • Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp. (Psalm 149:3)

    </li>
  • Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs. (Psalm 150:4)

    </li>
  • And it came to pass, as the ark of the covenant of the LORD came to the city of David, that Michal the daughter of Saul looking out at a window saw king David dancing and playing: and she despised him in her heart. (I Chron. 15:29)

    </li>
  • Is not this David, of whom they sang one to another in dances, saying, Saul slew his thousands, and David his ten thousands? (I Sam. 29:5)
    </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]So, Fred and Dave, you haven't learned yet that you are taking messages out of context.

Fred and Dave, does your congregation use musical devices in the assembly? If so, yours must be a different "Church of Christ" -- not the one that the New Testament speaks of.

It not, then, what are you doing being in that congregation that respects God's truth? You must have acquired your belief from the change agents.

Furthermore, Fred and Dave, does your congregation practice "dancing"? If not, you are NOT in compliance with YOUR doctrine of music and dancing. [/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

March 10th, 2011, 3:01 am #19

Fred IS obeying Scripture. Read Romans 16:16-17

"Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ send greetings. I urge YOU, BROTHERS, to watch out [KJV says to 'MARK'] for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way THAT ARE CONTRARY TO THE TEACHING YOU HAVE LEARNED. Keep away from them."

Fred as a Christian brother is marking Ken for teaching that which is contrary to what the church of Christ teaches from the Apostolic writings in the New Testament. Paul exhorts us to SING and make melody in our heart to the Lord. Ken says that "vocal" SINGING is not authorized.

Out of fairness Fred has provided him an opportunity below to clear the air if there is some mistake in interpreting his words.

Fred Whaley
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Fred,

You haven't told us the name of your congregation. Are you ashamed? Are you afraid for us to find out that your own congregation, after all, is in agreement with all the other churches of Christ and Scripture by not allowing PLAYING [of musical devices] in the assembly?

And here you are advocating what THE CHANGE AGENTS have taught YOU regarding instrumental music and even "dancing with God" or "dancing for the Lord."

The churches of Christ are MARKING YOU for teaching that which the Holy Scripture DOES NOT.

There is nothing wrong with the New Testament and what it teaches and commands. There is something wrong with your teaching and your command that is not found in God's truth.[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

March 10th, 2011, 3:03 am #20

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Fred (and Dave [per Fred Whaley]), pay attention to music history and Scripture.

(1) Music history reveals that "music ... almost DEMANDS dancing [and clapping] where the body gyrates in sync" with the tempo and/or change of tempo of the music.

(2) Scripture plainly reveals that dancing and musical instruments and even idolatry are connected in many instances. Here are a few of several passages in Scripture:[/color]
  • And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances. (Exo. 15:20)

    </li>
  • And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount. (Exo. 32:19)

    </li>
  • And it came to pass as they came, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet king Saul, with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of music. (I Sam. 18:6)

    </li>
  • Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp. (Psalm 149:3)

    </li>
  • Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs. (Psalm 150:4)

    </li>
  • And it came to pass, as the ark of the covenant of the LORD came to the city of David, that Michal the daughter of Saul looking out at a window saw king David dancing and playing: and she despised him in her heart. (I Chron. 15:29)

    </li>
  • Is not this David, of whom they sang one to another in dances, saying, Saul slew his thousands, and David his ten thousands? (I Sam. 29:5)
    </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]So, Fred and Dave, you haven't learned yet that you are taking messages out of context.

Fred and Dave, does your congregation use musical devices in the assembly? If so, yours must be a different "Church of Christ" -- not the one that the New Testament speaks of.

It not, then, what are you doing being in that congregation that respects God's truth? You must have acquired your belief from the change agents.

Furthermore, Fred and Dave, does your congregation practice "dancing"? If not, you are NOT in compliance with YOUR doctrine of music and dancing. [/color]
People WANT to dance when music plays: a very young infant will move their body and smile when you play music or clap. It is a natural instinct. The production of endorphins as a result of music has been likened to hearing a saber toothed tiger behind you. The response is a startle reflex which is not just a childhood response.

This sets you in motion for doing something and when you discover that the threat is real you respond with a happy smile.

A lady at GCMF wants to REVEL with God: that's the moving to music word. The praise teams use EXTERNAL MEANS (witchcraft) to get the ENERGY LEVEL UP and getting everyone moving ins SUMPHONIA. This bumping and grinding in step with the "worship minister" is HIS forcing you into his embrace. The body moves and bounces and sways and the arms float up. This is in fact dancing by people not yet ready to "go all the way."

This is not something that happens in congregational singing unless you have a jumpity song leader. Using external forces to affect a mind change IS the meaning of witchcraft or sorcery. When David prophesied with harps the word is "soothsaying."

Soothsayig is also defined as prophesying. In the non-speaking the word sense, the people pretend that their message comes from God. christ defines this as blasphemy.

Belteshazzar plays Daniel's future brother in "spirit, and knowledge, and understanding, interpreting of dreams, and shewing of hard sentences, and dissolving of doubts." Daniel 5:12.[3] A soothsaying is the result of interpreting these different things into an understanding that disolves the reader's doubts
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