The Change Agents Are Coming!!!!

Dave
Dave

December 15th, 2010, 11:14 pm #1

Just hadn't heard it in a while, and just wanted you to know that of following Jesus, the Mightiest Change Agent of all........WE'RE HERE!!!
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

December 16th, 2010, 5:16 am #2

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

I don't know about Christ's new title: "Mightiest Change Agent" coming from you, in addition to:

-- Lord
-- Son of God
-- Son of Man
-- Lamb of God
-- Mediator
-- High Priest
-- Emmanuel
-- Head of the Church
-- King of Kings
-- Rabbi
-- Redeemer
-- Savior
-- ... and more

The Change Agents operating in the brotherhood are here to CHANGE and transform, restructure, reorganize the church that Christ Himself established in the first century. Can you imagine Jesus Christ restructuring His own church?

So, you haven't heard in a while that "the Change Agents are coming"? Don't worry. I have bumped the thread for your benefit:[/color]


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Dave
Dave

December 16th, 2010, 5:42 am #3

Donnie......you might fool others but you don't fool yourself. When you look in a mirror you can see the same pharisee type of person(s) that Jesus went up against everyday. Jesus not only messed with the mold, he reshaped it altogether. He fulfilled the law and then did away with it.
You and yours want to bring back a man-made law.
It just will not happen.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

December 16th, 2010, 6:35 am #4

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

You are confusing me.

1. Which law did Jesus fulfill?
2. Which law did Jesus away with?
3. I know nothing of bringing back a law. Please explain.
4. What was/is this man-made law you made reference to?

If I were you, I wouldn't even begin to equate the destructive deeds of change agents in and against the church with the accomplishments of Christ on earth.[/color]
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Dave
Dave

December 16th, 2010, 2:26 pm #5

Matthew 5
17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Donnie asked "1. Which law did Jesus fulfill?"
Donnie, did you notice the word 'fulfill?'
When Jesus died on the cross for all mankind.........wasn't 'everything' accomplished?'

Donnie asked "2. Which law did Jesus away with?
James 1:25
25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in itnot forgetting what they have heard, but doing itthey will be blessed in what they do.
The PERFECT LAW through Christ replaced your Old Law.

Your last two questions refer to this man-made law that you and yours want to use instead of what Christ instituted. You want your traditions to be THE LAW.
"3. I know nothing of bringing back a law. Please explain.
4. What was/is this man-made law you made reference to?"

Donnie, there are so many like You who aren't happy with what Christ offers.....you want something better.

There is NOTHING better than Christ. Nothing!
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

December 16th, 2010, 4:52 pm #6

It looks like Dave actually wants "something better," because he stands as an advocate for instrumental music in Christian worship. Although his own congregation allegedly has yet (?) to implement instruments, Dave would pat other church of Christ congregations on the back for having them. Christ through Paul told us to use vocal music (Eph. 5:19 and Col. 3:16), but Dave and the other progressives just aren't satisfied with that. They want something MORE to "accompany" and/or "enhance" the singing, as if Christ would detest a cappella singing. Actually, it is man who detests a cappella singing, hence the push to "accompany" and "enhance" the singing with instruments.

Before Dave accuses Donnie and the other conservatives of wanting "something better," Dave should first examine his own worship priorities.
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Dave
Dave

December 16th, 2010, 9:55 pm #7

Finally, I seem to be getting through......William Crump admitted....."Dave would pat other church of Christ congregations on the back for having them." THEM being instruments of music.
YES William. YES!!!
You now seem them as legitimate congregations!!!
Yes....they are ALL churches of Christ, whether they prefer instrumental music or straight vocal/a capella.
Yes!!!
WIlliam, you also said...."They want something MORE to "accompany" and/or "enhance" the singing, as if Christ would detest a cappella singing."

No more than Christ would detest the singing being accompanied by instrumental music or a PA system.
It has to do with the heart William. Do you believe that someone who attends an a capella congregation may not have his heart in the right place? Certainly. Just because he/she sings, does that mean he is giving to God and His Son what they desire? The heart William. That is from whence the proper worship is given.
We got one down William, and more yet to come.
Next???
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

December 18th, 2010, 2:54 pm #8

A woman who works as a prostitute cannot legitimately call herself a "lady" in the refined, social sense of the term; likewise, a church that uses instruments certainly cannot legitimately call itself a "church of Christ congregation" in the spiritual sense of the term.

A true lady does not work as a prostitute.
A true church of Christ congregation does not use musical instruments.

It is a sham for a prostitute to call herself a "lady."
It is a sham for a church that uses instruments to call itself a "church of Christ congregation."

Sometimes, a "rose" by any other name really does stink.
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Dave
Dave

December 19th, 2010, 5:01 am #9

One minute your saying that they are all churches of Christ, no matter if they use instruments of music or not.
Now you're back into your 'if the Lady is a tramp' thing. The lady is not a prostitute example compared to a coC not using instrumental music is not a correct or parallel analogy, but just another lame attempt to pump up another man made tradition. It made no sense whatsoever and in end William....you again, look very immature.

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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

December 19th, 2010, 6:57 am #10

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

I think that you've almost made up your mind as a mature Christian by not addressing others as: "son" ... "boys" ... "ole boy," etc. Except when you said: "you ... look very immature." I think that many readers would agree that messages are clearer and more meaningful and civil without these extraneous expressions. Hopefully, you've arrived.

I would like to point out that the use of mechanical music in the assembly is a man-made tradition.

(1) The NT church of the first century did not use it.
(2) The Roman Catholic Church initiated it.
(3) Protestant Churches propagated it.
(4) Certain "progressive" churches of Christ are IMITATING.
(5) The imitating churches of Christ are now affiliated with Community Churches or the Christian Church.

Interestingly:

(1) Dave, your own congregation in S.C. is non-instrumental.
(2) Sonny Elliot's congregation is non-instrumental.
(3) Fred Whaley's congregation is non-IM.
(4) Jeff Walling's (a prominent Change Agent) congregation is non-IM.

Churches of Christ are virtually non-instrumental (99.888888%). That would be 100% if only Change Agents would leave peaceful congregations alone.

Remember this, Dave: The New Testament church of the first century did not practice it. Christ and the apostles did not teach it. The Roman Catholic Church started it and thus mechanical music became a man-made tradition.[/color]
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