The Body of Christ.

The Body of Christ.

A Member of the Body of Christ
A Member of the Body of Christ

April 16th, 2006, 5:39 pm #1

There is something wrong, something very wrong. There needs to be a change, a big change.

There is this body, this body of believers. This body all believes in the same God. This body believes in the same Savior. Everyone in this body gains the same salvation. Everyone in this body receives the same grace. Everyone in this body is covered by the same blood. Everyone in this body is destined to go to the same place.

Yet, this body is divided, very divided. This body is full of people who think they are always right. This body is full of people that are concentrated on the wrong things. This body is full of people who try to tear each other apart instead of build each other up. This body is full of people that do not accept each other. This believed body of love and unity is sometimes a body of hatred and division.

Is not this body of unity supposed to love each other? Is not this body of unity supposed care for each other? Is not this body of unity supposed to accept each other and its differences? Is not this body of unity supposed to present the lost world with hope? How can this body successfully do these things when it is hurting itself with division and hatred?


WE, AS THE BODY OF CHRIST, ALL BELIEVE IN THE SAME GOD. WE ALL HAVE HOPE IN THE SAME SAVIOR. WE SOMETIMES HAVE DIFFERENT PREFERENCES, BUT WE ALL STILL LOVE OUR SAME GOD. WE NEED TO LAY ASIDE OUR PERSONAL PREFERENCES WHICH HAVE BEEN SHAPED AND MOLDED INTO RULES. BAPTIST, METHODIST, CHURCH OF CHRIST, PRESBYTIRIAN, NAZARENE, AND WHOEVEVER BELIEVES IN THE RISEN SAVIOR, WE ARE ALL A PART OF SAME BODY, THE BODY OF CHRIST. WE ARE BROTHERS, AND WE ARE SISTERS. WE ARE CHRISTIANS. WE ARE ALL GOING TO BE TOGETHER UNIFIED IN HEAVEN FOR ETERNITY. WE NEED TO LOVE EACH OTHER. WE NEED TO ACCEPT EACH OTHER. WE NEED TO CUT THE TENSION AND COME TOGETHER. WE NEED TO BE THE BODY OF CHRIST WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE.



"I am the way and the truth and the light. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6 Jesus is the only way. Our demonation of church does not determine our salvation. Only our acceptance of Jesus Christ as our Lord. Jesus is the way. He is the truth. He is the light. We can be saved by nothing else.
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Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

April 17th, 2006, 1:02 am #2

<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>Dear Poster,

Your article is atypical of the message that this website is trying to convey—which is basically to warn congregations of the dangers and risks involved when unnecessary and controversial changes are being enforced against the will of many of a church’s members. This website is opposed to ecumenism—which has never worked even among a number of religious groups who call for unity. There may be union in ecumenism, but union is not the same thing as unity. The Holy Scripture does not speak of any form of “union,” but it speaks a great deal about unity.

Your article contains valid points that we all can agree upon. But the question of achievability remains. The denominational world will never, never be united; in fact, denominationalism—which is by no means the kind of UNITY that the scriptures speak of—will continue to evoke more denominationalism.

At the same time, your set of questions further leads us to even more questions. For example, why would you expect the church of Christ to change its beliefs in order to join forces with the denominational world, and then NOT expect the denominations to change their doctrines and creeds to “unite” with us?

Well, I’m not trying to take anything away from a fruitful discussion that we should hope will ensue, but I simply would like to remind the readers that your plea for unity is not practical—it will not work unless and until all religious groups realistically can come to a scripture-based set of doctrines, beliefs and teachings.

I would like to ask you to present you proposition to your minister and to your elders, and let us know what they think—are they in partial/full agreement/disagreement with you?

Thanks for posting.

Donnie</font>
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poster
poster

April 17th, 2006, 3:05 am #3

We have the same beliefs. We all believe in Jesus Christ as our risen Savior. What we have that is different is our preferences. We CAN be unified. That doesn't mean we all have to have the same preferences. I attend a church of Christ. I know how it runs. We have our rules, our taboos. But we need to realize these are not rules. They are preferences. We can be unified.
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Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

April 17th, 2006, 6:01 am #4

<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>I still would encourage you to show your original post to your minister and elders. If nothing else, please ask them if they agree with your premise, specifically the paragraph that’s bolded, listing a number of selected religious bodies. You may not consider this significant, but it is really significant. Why? Because if the elders in your church teach that the church of Christ can accept doctrines and teachings that even DIFFERING religious bodies cannot agree on, then, they are also wrong and have no business leading your church. There would be NO REASON whatsoever for the church of Christ to even exist. And they might as well serve as “elders” in any of these religious bodies—if they will let them.

We haven’t even started discussing beliefs, doctrines and teachings. But to make a blanket statement that “we have the same beliefs” is very troubling. Perhaps, there are no differences to you because the teaching-learning resources, materials and lessons in your “Bible” classes are derived from various religious faiths.

So, please, do me a favor. If your father has been/is an elder, he is one person to ask about your views on unity. Perhaps, there are other elders who know you personally and can, therefore, give you an honest answer.

There’s so much to discuss concerning “the body of Christ”—which is often misunderstood as it seems to be the case even as we speak.

Thanks!

Donnie</font>
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PPB
PPB

April 17th, 2006, 7:11 am #5

We have the same beliefs. We all believe in Jesus Christ as our risen Savior. What we have that is different is our preferences. We CAN be unified. That doesn't mean we all have to have the same preferences. I attend a church of Christ. I know how it runs. We have our rules, our taboos. But we need to realize these are not rules. They are preferences. We can be unified.
Miss Member of the Body of Christ:

Unfortunately, I can promise you that we are not disagreeing on "preferences" but over the REMOVAL of important scriptures that Jesus and the Apostles stated were imperative to our salvation, and the ADDITION of worldly behaviors that were condemned by Christ.

I applaud your love for people and your desire that all should be saved. However, reality must be noted and addressed. May I ask you something? Can you please explain how God's scriptural commands are now considered to be preferences? And these "rules" you so lightly dismiss are not man's rules, but God's commands. Am I to ignore his commands and now determine which of his "rules" I no longer need to obey so that I can get along with other religions?

Jesus himself stated these divisions would happen because of Satan and to NOT let our beliefs and traditions be changed by the world. He said he would NOT know us at judgement day if we didn't follow ALL of his Father's commands. He said full unity would not happen because man is sinful and lets his wants get in the way of his beliefs.

I hope you understand that under your unification process, we would throw out 99% of the Bible because we removed all "preferences" and "rules". HOWEVER, that one little verse in Revelation does bother me - something about adding or taking away from God's Word being detrimental to our salvation. Though I applaud you for caring and wanting all to be saved (I share that same wish/prayer), we must not let our desire for something that cannot be to override God's commands.

Jesus said it most clearly in Mat 7:14: "Because strait [is] the gate, and NARROW [is] the way, which leadeth unto LIFE, and FEW there be that FIND it."

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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

April 17th, 2006, 2:01 pm #6

I, too, gather that the anonymous poster would have not only the church of Christ, but all faiths, come to some kind of consensus about what to believe in Christianity. That is, in order for everyone to have peace and get along with each other, we would all draw up a list of those things on which all faiths could agree, and that would be our "doctrine." That would "unify" all faiths. That is also ecumenism. What is not said (but is implied nevertheless) is that those scriptural beliefs on which all faiths could not agree would be ignored or discarded for the sake of "unification." But it's already been pointed out that, although such a concept merely unifies us with each other, it is not the scriptural "unity in Christ." To have full unity in Christ, all people must be willing to yield completely to Christ, to follow His commands and the New Testament to the letter, veering neither to the left hand nor to the right, without regard for personal preferences.

Full unity in Christ will not happen as long as there is denominationalism. Full unity in Christ will not happen as long as people believe that there are multiple paths to Christ instead of the ONE PATH--THE OLD PATH--THE NARROW PATH--HIS WAY.
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Lee Gullism
Lee Gullism

April 18th, 2006, 4:58 am #7

This thread has a concerned Christian talking about apples, and everyone else talking about oranges.

The poster is saying, why don't we lose our opinions and be unified under the REAL law?

The answer is: Our opinion IS the real law.

It's not denominationalism that's holding back unity. It's this arrogant claim to be the only one's with the truth. (and it's not even the truth).
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Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

April 20th, 2006, 5:20 am #8

<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>Leegull,

No, we’re making sure first that the initial post is talking about either apples or oranges.

The discussion has barely started. We haven’t yet clearly defined what comprises the body of Christ. To draw the conclusion beforehand that the body of Christ encompasses the denominations (even the “selected” ones as mentioned above) is certainly an opinion. And for you to agree with that conclusion is simply a statement of opinion from you.

The poster—and you have made it clear for us—is correct in pointing out that we lose our opinions. Unfortunately that “losing what” includes your opinion that denominationalism is an attribute or part of the nature of the church.

Identifying the church as a conglomerate of various religious bodies is unscriptural and contrary to how the New Testament ascribes to the one body of Christ (Eph. 4:4)—not hundreds of religious bodies. I Cor. 12:12 states—“For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.” Does it say that the one body has many denominations? No … no … no! Besides, the New Testament is clear about how an individual becomes a member of [or is added to—NOT JOIN] the church (Acts 2:37-38,41,47)

The church belongs to Christ—why “of Christ” and not of some human founder significantly designates its ownership. It is important to note that the Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant churches did not exist in the apostolic age.

No Christian who knows the truth ever thinks that “our opinion is the REAL law.” You said that—not I.

Denominationalism equates diversity in doctrines and beliefs. Neither one is conducive to unity.

You have arrogance confused with confidence. The truth does not equivocate. Therefore, confidence in the truth does not equate arrogance. You might call it arrogance when you cannot argue with the truth or when the truth hurts you.

Donnie</font>
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

April 20th, 2006, 2:09 pm #9

This thread has a concerned Christian talking about apples, and everyone else talking about oranges.

The poster is saying, why don't we lose our opinions and be unified under the REAL law?

The answer is: Our opinion IS the real law.

It's not denominationalism that's holding back unity. It's this arrogant claim to be the only one's with the truth. (and it's not even the truth).
Unity in Christ will arrive when Christians are able once and for all to put their opinions and preferences aside and yield completely to the commands of Christ as set forth in the New Testament.

Unity in Christ encompasses ONE belief and ONE obedience, not multiple or diverse beliefs with some obeying some portions of the New Testament and others ignoring them.

Unity in Christ encompasses much more than just a bunch of congregations with divergent beliefs who agree to "believe in" Christ and otherwise do as they please. Anyone can give lip service and say they "believe in" Christ. The real test of unity is whether or not these "believers" are able to come together with one spiritual mind and commit themselves to following and obeying Christ and His Word in ALL THINGS whatsoever He commanded us (Matt. 28:20).

Yet when we advocate this complete scriptural unity in Christ, many object that we are merely stating our church of Christ opinions, that we are lifting up our preferences as divine principles.

If people coming together with one mind to submit totally to Christ is not "unity in Christ," if people coming together with one mind to obey Christ and His Word faithfully and completely is not "unity in Christ," then what else could "unity in Christ" possibly mean? Unity means one, not many. "Unity in diversity," that all-too-familiar adage of the Change Movement, is a misnomer, for where there is diversity of spiritual belief, there can be no unity of spiritual belief. That is really talking about apples and oranges or mixing oil with water.
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

April 20th, 2006, 6:09 pm #10

This thread has a concerned Christian talking about apples, and everyone else talking about oranges.

The poster is saying, why don't we lose our opinions and be unified under the REAL law?

The answer is: Our opinion IS the real law.

It's not denominationalism that's holding back unity. It's this arrogant claim to be the only one's with the truth. (and it's not even the truth).
It is an old view that when Israel sinned beyond redemption God ABANDONED them to the musical worship of the STARRY HOST (Acts 7) they requested.

The temple was a SYMBOLIC type: if you will notice the "body" or Holy Place has all of the symbols of the CHURCH: the seven "spirits" or knowledge or light, the table of fellowship and the incense altar. This for the "civilians" was the synagogue or "church in the wilderness" where loud instruments and 'making a joyful noise' was OUTLAWED. Just common sense and common decency: when you enter the SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE and Jesus is our teacher when we teach or preach "that which has been taught" no dummy needs to be told NOT to make "music."

The HEAD is where the thinking takes place and CHRIST is the HEAD of the body, the church.

Now, the body RESTS on two things: first one leg is the SACRIFICE and second is the laver of washing. Both the sacrifice and the priest had to be WASHED in order to enter into the Holy Place ot type of the church of Christ. That is why you must rest on the sacrifice of Christ and be WASHED and given A holy spirit. THEN, God adds you to the church of Christ or the Body of Christ.

Once you are in the BODY you can come boldly before the throne of Grace. The incense altar meaning our PRAYERS looked into the Most Holy Place where Christ the Holy Spirit meets US in the PLACE of our own spirit. The Word of God rested UNDER the mercy seat and that is why you cannot READ it until you are converted to Christ (2 Cor 3).

No musical mockers or singers could ENTER into the body of Christ or Church of Christ EVEN TO CLEAN OUT THE GARBAGE (see Hezekiah's reform). If a singer or musician ENTERED into even the carnal TYPE of the body of Christ he would be instantly killed by the "brethren."

When we as priests come to the incense altar to offer our own PRAYERS or fruit of the lips, there was a HALF HOURS SILENCE. That is why in Revelation they HOLD their harps and do not PLAY them.

That is why Simple Simon Sez in 101aaa --with all of the Bible and all recorded church history--that it is LUCIFER (Zoe) who lusts to get you all PLEASURED (outlawed by Paul in Romans 15 for the ekklesia) to keep you from GIVING HEED to the Word of Christ which is Paul's UNIQUE "worship" word. She is the holy whore in Revelation 18. All of the singers, musicians and "religious teknokrats" will go with her back into hell and John defined HER servants as SORCERERS who deceived the nations and that is why the CANDLES are removed by Jesus Christ. So, when you see these MARKS don't be silly and think that it is YOUR PREFERENCE which Trumps Jesus Christ: it is the sign that Jesus Christ has ALREADY abandoned you to worship the STARS just as he did to the musical idolaters at Mount Sinai.
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