The Body of Christ.

Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

May 12th, 2006, 2:28 pm #21

Was Pippin implying that I was a preacher? Whatever, we need not "fear" the denominations; we just don't need to mimic them, as some church of Christ congregations are doing. Trying to win the approval of the denominations and the world by emulating them through worldly gimmicks and finding the "best" parts of Scripture on which we all can agree won't cut the mustard as far as obedience to Christ is concerned. It's an all or none situation. Neither should we be concerned about who "laughs" at us. People laughed at Christ, and the ungodly will always laugh at the faithful.

There are so many different "Christian faiths" with so many different interpretations, all of which have existed for decades and centuries, that it is logical to see that total unity (obedience to Christ and the New Testament in ALL THINGS whatsoever He has commanded us) is now virtually impossible. For complete and total "unity in Christ" by New Testament standards, all faiths would have to agree to give up their "traditions" and "preferences" and go strictly "by the book," the New Testament. But for many faiths, "rules and regulations," hence any type of authority, are just forms of "legalism." We also must remember that the New Testament did not predict a worldwide "unity in Christ" as the end of time approaches, but instead a falling away from the faith.

Nevertheless, as the new world order approaches, different faiths are going to attempt a "unity of compromise" with each other by skimming the Scriptures and taking that which is the least offensive and onerous to everyone, what is politically correct, what satisfies the "needs" of special interest groups, and write that up as their "doctrine." "Progressive" churches of Christ are not immune from such an approach.

Therefore, each church of Christ congregation must be willing to remain faithful to the Scriptures, to abstain from incorporating worldly, drawing-card gimmicks as the denominations do, to preach the whole Gospel, and to stay on the straight and narrow (albeit unpopular) path of Christ to salvation.
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Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

May 14th, 2006, 12:27 am #22

There is something wrong, something very wrong. There needs to be a change, a big change.

There is this body, this body of believers. This body all believes in the same God. This body believes in the same Savior. Everyone in this body gains the same salvation. Everyone in this body receives the same grace. Everyone in this body is covered by the same blood. Everyone in this body is destined to go to the same place.

Yet, this body is divided, very divided. This body is full of people who think they are always right. This body is full of people that are concentrated on the wrong things. This body is full of people who try to tear each other apart instead of build each other up. This body is full of people that do not accept each other. This believed body of love and unity is sometimes a body of hatred and division.

Is not this body of unity supposed to love each other? Is not this body of unity supposed care for each other? Is not this body of unity supposed to accept each other and its differences? Is not this body of unity supposed to present the lost world with hope? How can this body successfully do these things when it is hurting itself with division and hatred?


WE, AS THE BODY OF CHRIST, ALL BELIEVE IN THE SAME GOD. WE ALL HAVE HOPE IN THE SAME SAVIOR. WE SOMETIMES HAVE DIFFERENT PREFERENCES, BUT WE ALL STILL LOVE OUR SAME GOD. WE NEED TO LAY ASIDE OUR PERSONAL PREFERENCES WHICH HAVE BEEN SHAPED AND MOLDED INTO RULES. BAPTIST, METHODIST, CHURCH OF CHRIST, PRESBYTIRIAN, NAZARENE, AND WHOEVEVER BELIEVES IN THE RISEN SAVIOR, WE ARE ALL A PART OF SAME BODY, THE BODY OF CHRIST. WE ARE BROTHERS, AND WE ARE SISTERS. WE ARE CHRISTIANS. WE ARE ALL GOING TO BE TOGETHER UNIFIED IN HEAVEN FOR ETERNITY. WE NEED TO LOVE EACH OTHER. WE NEED TO ACCEPT EACH OTHER. WE NEED TO CUT THE TENSION AND COME TOGETHER. WE NEED TO BE THE BODY OF CHRIST WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE.



"I am the way and the truth and the light. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6 Jesus is the only way. Our demonation of church does not determine our salvation. Only our acceptance of Jesus Christ as our Lord. Jesus is the way. He is the truth. He is the light. We can be saved by nothing else.
<font size=4>LIST NO. 3:</font>

<font size=3 color=indigo face=times new roman>In the other preceding lists of denominations, we included the divisions among the Catholic, Orthodox, Lutheran, Reformed, Presbyterian, Brethren, and Baptist Churches.

This third list includes the Methodist, Anglican/Episcopalian, Seventh-Day Adventist Churches.

Also listed are from these groups: Charismatic, Holiness, Pentecostal, Oneness Pentecostal, Neo-Charismatic Churches which have a combined worldwide membership larger than any of the Protestant Churches.

Ready?</font>
  • <font color=black size=3 face=times new roman>
  • African Methodist Episcopal Church
  • African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church
  • Bible Methodist Church
  • Christian Methodist Episcopal Church
  • Congregational Methodist Church
  • Church of the Nazarene
  • Evangelical Church
  • Evangelical Methodist Church
  • Free Methodist Church
  • Fellowship of Independent Methodist Churches
  • Fundamental Methodist Conference, Inc.
  • Independent Methodist Church
  • Iglesia Metodista de México, Sitio Oficial
  • Primitive Methodist Church
  • Salvation Army
  • United Methodist Church
  • Wesleyan Church
  • Wesleyan Reform Union
  • Anglican Communion
  • Church in Wales
  • Church of England
  • Church of Ireland
  • Church of the Province of ______________
  • Episcopal Church in Jerusalem and the Middle East
  • Episcopal Church in the United States of America
  • Episcopal Church of _______________
  • Iglesia Anglicana de la Region Central America
  • Iglesia Anglicana del Cono Sud de las Americas
  • Igreja Episcopal Anglicana do Brasil
  • Kerala Christian Assembly (Canada) [1]
  • Lusitanian Church of Portugal
  • Philippine Episcopal Church
  • Scottish Episcopal Church
  • Spanish Reformed Episcopal Church
  • Independent Anglican Churches
  • Continuing Anglican Movement Churches
  • African Orthodox Church
  • African Anglican Orthodox Church Worldwide
  • American Anglican Church
  • Anglican Catholic Church
  • Anglican Church in America
  • Anglican Church International Communion
  • Anglican Mission in America
  • Anglican Orthodox Church
  • Anglican Province of America
  • Anglican Province of Christ the King
  • Christian Episcopal Church
  • Church of England (Continuing)
  • Church of England in South Africa
  • Communion of Evangelical Episcopal Churches
  • Episcopal Missionary Church
  • Free Church of England
  • Free Protestant Episcopal Church
  • Reformed Episcopal Church
  • Southern Episcopal Church
  • United Episcopal Church
  • Catholic Apostolic Church
  • Restored Apostolic Mission Church
  • New Apostolic Church
  • United Apostolic Church
  • General Church of the New Jerusalem
  • The Lord's New Church which is Nova Hierosolyma
  • General Conference of the New Church (England)
  • Swedenborgian Church of North America formerly General Convention of the New Jerusalem (USA)
  • The New Church in Australia
  • The Faith Mission
  • Friends (Quakers) and Their Offshoots
  • Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)
  • Friends General Conference
  • Friends United Meeting
  • Evangelical Friends International
  • United Society of Believers in Christ's Second Appearing (Shakers)

    Messianic Judaism
  • Chosen People Ministries
  • Jews for Jesus
  • Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations
  • The Messianic Jewish Alliance of America (MJAA), founded in 1915, is the largest association of Messianic Jews in the world
  • Messianic Bureau International (MBI)

    Sabbath Keeping Christian Churches
    — Sunday Adventists
  • Advent Christian Church
  • Church of God General Conference (Abrahamic Faith)
  • Church of the Blessed Hope (aka Church of God of the Abrahamic Faith)
  • Primitive Advent Christian Church
    — Seventh Day Adventists
  • Branch Davidians
  • Branch Seventh Day Adventists
  • Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church
  • Davidian Seventh-Day Adventist Association
  • General Association of Davidian Seventh-Day Adventists
  • People's Christian Church
  • Seventh-Day Adventist Church
  • Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement
  • International Missionary Society of the Seventh-Day Adventist Church Reform Movement
  • Sabbath Rest Advent Church
  • Promise Adventist Church - Brazilian Pentecostal Adventists
  • The Registry
    — Sabbath Keeping Churches, Non Adventist
  • Assembly of God in Christ Jesus
  • Associated Churches, Inc.
  • Associates for Scriptural Knowledge
  • Biblical Church of God
  • Body of Christ Church of God
  • Church of God (Anadarko)
  • Church of God (Jesus Christ the Head) (UNICO)
  • Church of God (O'Brien)
  • Church of God (Philadelphia Era)
  • Church of God (Sabbatarian)
  • Church of God (Seventh Day, Salem, West Virginia)
  • Church of God Evangelical Association
  • Church of God's Truth
  • Church of the Great God
  • Congregation of God, Seventh Day
  • Congregation of God
  • Congregation of Yah
  • Foundation for Biblical Research
  • Foundation of Life Fellowship
  • General Conference of the Church of God (Seventh-Day)
  • General Council of the Churches of God
  • Global Church of God
  • Harmony of Life Fellowship
  • International Church of God (ICG)
  • Philadelphia Church of God
  • Restoration Church of God
  • Seventh-Day Church of God
  • The Eternal Church of God
  • The Pure Truth
  • Triumph Prophetic Ministries (Church of God)
  • Twentieth Century Church of God (Pennsylvania)
  • Twentieth Century Church of God
  • United Biblical Church of God
  • United Church of God
  • United Seventh-Day Brethren
  • Universal Church of God
  • World Insight International
  • Worldwide Church of God
    — Bible Student Groups
  • Back to the Bible Way
  • Christian Believers Conference
  • Christian Bible Students Association
  • Christian Millenial Fellowship
  • Christian Prophets of Jehovah
  • Dawn Bible Students Association
  • Epiphany Bible Students Association
  • Independent Bible Students
  • Laodicean Home Missionary Movement
  • Layman's Home Missionary Movement
  • Lord Our Righteousness (Life Support)
  • Pastoral Bible Institute
  • Philanthropic Assembly
    — Sacred Name Groups
  • Assemblies of YHWHHOSHUA
  • Assemblies of Yah
  • Assemblies of Yahvah
  • Assembly of Yahweh (Easton Rapids, MI)
  • Assemblies of Yahweh (Bethel, PA)
  • Assemblies of the Called Out Ones of Yah
  • Bible Study Association
  • Church of God (Jerusalem)
  • House of Yahweh (Abilene, Texas)
  • House of Yahweh (Odessa, Texas)
  • Missionary Dispensary Bible Research
  • New Life Fellowship
  • Scripture Research Association
  • Workers Together with Elohim
  • Yahweh's Assembly of Messiah
    — Anglo-Israelism
  • Anglo-Saxon Federation of America
  • British-Israel-World Federation (Canada), Inc.
  • Calvary Fellowship, Inc.
  • Christian Conservative Churches of America
  • Church of Jesus Christ-Christian (Aryan Nations)
  • Kingdom Identity Ministries
  • LaPorte Church of Christ
  • Christian Research
  • Church of Israel
  • Covenant, the Sword and the Arm of the Lord
  • Evangelical Church of Christ / Commonwealth Covenant Church (New Zealand)
  • House of Prayer for All People
  • Ministry of Christ Church
  • National Association of Kingdom Evangelicals
  • New Christian Crusade Church
  • Prophetic Herald Ministry
  • Remnant of Israel
  • Tabernacle of the Phineas Priesthood
  • Christian Israelite Church
  • Israelite House of David
  • Israelite House of David as Reorganized by Mary Purnell
  • Yahweh's New Covenant Assembly
  • Church of the East and Abroad
    — Other Adventists
  • Christadelphians
  • Christian Nations - Eagle Warriors
  • Church of God (Reinersten)
  • Kingdom of God on Earth Within Man
  • Remnant Church
  • Restored Israel of Yahweh
  • Shiloh True Light Church of Christ
  • Star of Truth Foundation
  • True Church
  • church of god world mission society

    Gnosticism, Nontrinitarian, New Thought, Christian mystery religion
  • Ecclesia Gnostica
  • Bogomils (extinct)
  • Borborites (extinct)
  • Carpocratians (extinct)
  • Cathars (extinct)
  • Manichaeism (extinct)
  • American Unitarian Conference
  • Branhamism
  • Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ of the Apostolic Faith
  • Doukhobors
  • Christadelphians
  • Home Ecclesia Association
  • Iglesia ni Cristo
  • Magi Network
  • Makuya
  • Molokan
  • Unification Church
  • Unitarian Christian Association
  • Unitarian Universalist Christian Fellowship
  • United Pentecostal Church International
  • Christian anarchism
  • Divine Science
  • Religious Science
  • Unity Church
  • Esoteric Christianity
  • The Rosicrucian Fellowship
  • Spiritism (regarded as an auxiliary doctrine)

    Charismatics, Pietists and Holiness Churches, Pentecostalism, Oneness Pentecostalism, Neo-charismatic churches, Other movement churches
  • New Frontiers
  • Vineyard Movement
  • Sovereign Grace Ministries
  • Charismatic Episcopal Church
  • Full Gospel
  • Apostolic Christian Church
  • Bible Fellowship Church
  • Christian & Missionary Alliance
  • Christian's Missionary Church
  • Church of Christ (Holiness) U.S.A.
  • Church of God (Anderson)
  • Church of God (Guthrie, Oklahoma)
  • Church of God (Holiness)
  • Churches of God General Conference (Winebrenner)
  • Church of the Nazarene
  • Evangelical Covenant Church
  • Missionary Church
  • United Christian Church
  • Abundant Life Worship Centers
  • Apostolic Assemblies of Christ
  • Apostolic Church of Pentecost of Canada
  • Apostolic Faith Church
  • Assemblies of God
  • Assembly of Pentecostal Churches of Jesus Christ
  • Calvary Holiness Association
  • Charismatic Episcopal Church
  • Christian City Churches
  • Christ Gospel Churches International
  • Christian Church of North America
  • Christian Congregation of Brazil
  • Christian Outreach Centre
  • Christian Revival Crusade
  • Church of God (Charleston, Tennessee)
  • Church of God (Chattanooga)
  • Church of God (Cleveland)
  • Church of God (Huntsville, Alabama)
  • Church of God (Jerusalem Acres)
  • Church of God for All Nations
  • Church of God by Faith
  • Church of God, House of Prayer
  • Church of God in Christ
  • Church of God Mountain Assembly
  • Church of God of Prophecy
  • Church of God with Signs Following
  • Church of God of the Union Assembly
  • Church of the Little Children of Jesus Christ
  • Congregational Holiness Church
  • CRC Churches International
  • Destiny Church
  • Elim Fellowship
  • Elim Pentecostal Church
  • Fire Baptized Holiness Church of God of the Americas
  • God is Love Pentecostal Church
  • Holiness Baptist Association
  • Independent Assemblies of God, International
  • International Church of the Foursquare Gospel
  • International Pentecostal Church of Christ
  • International Pentecostal Holiness Church
  • Ministers Fellowship International
  • New Life Churches
  • Open Bible Standard Churches (association of autonomous churches)
  • Pentecostal Mission
  • Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada
  • Pentecostal Assemblies of Newfoundland
  • Pentecostal Church of God
  • Pentecostal Free Will Baptist Church
  • Pentecostal/Charismatic Churches of North America
  • Pentecostal Churches of the Apostolic Faith
  • Pentecostal World Conference
  • Redeemed Christian Church of God
  • The Church of God (Jerusalem Acres)
  • The Church of God for All Nations
  • The Fellowship (FGFCMI)
  • United Gospel Tabernacles
  • United Holy Church of America
  • United Pentecostal Churches of Christ
  • Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus
  • Apostolic Brethren
  • Apostolic Church of the Faith in Jesus Christ
  • Apostolic Overcoming Holy Church of God
  • Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ
  • Bible Way Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ
  • Church of Jesus Christ of Prophecy
  • Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ of the Apostolic Faith
  • International Church of Jesus Christ
  • Pentecostal Assemblies of the World
  • Potter's House Christian Fellowship
  • United Pentecostal Church
  • Kimbanguist Church
  • The Church of the Lord (Aladura)
  • Zion Christian Church
  • True Jesus Church,
  • Church Assembly Hall
  • New Birth Movement
  • Montagnard Evangelical Church
  • Bible Christian Mission
  • Filadelfia Fellowship
  • New Life Fellowship
  • New Life Outreach
  • Reaching Indians Ministries
  • Believers' Churches in India
  • Rajasthan Bible Institute
  • Calvary Chapel
  • Church of Christ, Instrumental (aka Kelleyites)
  • Children of God
  • Christian City Church (aka "CCC" or "C3i")
  • City Harvest Church
  • Evangelical Covenant Church of America ("Swedish Evangelical Mission Covenant")
  • Evangelical Free Church of America
  • Grace Movement Churches
  • Hope Church Singapore
  • Fellowship of Fundamental Bible Churches
  • Great Commission Association
  • Indian Shakers
  • New Frontiers (formerly New Frontiers International)
  • Metropolitan Community Churches
  • Schwenkfelder Church
  • Two by Two (aka The Truth, The Way) and its offshoot Cooneyites
  • Vineyard Movement
  • Charismatic Episcopal Church
  • The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
  • Church of Christ, Scientist
  • Jehovah's Witnesses
  • New Age: The Christian Community

    Restoration Movement:
  • Disciples of Christ
  • Christian Church
  • Churches of Christ
  • International Churches of Christ (Boston Movement) </font>
<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>Although churches of Christ are included in the list above [as the “religious world” thinks that it is a religious body, just another denomination], contrary to the apostates and change agents’ suggestion that the church of Christ is divided—and is, therefore, not any different from others—it is noteworthy that statistical data “out there” does NOT separately list “one cuppers” from “no Sunday School” congregations, etc. We must acknowledge the significance of it all.

Do you see why the proponents of the Change Movement among churches of Christ would have you convinced that ecumenism is the way to go—i.e., churches of Christ should just openly fellowship with others regardless of doctrine? How absurd and impractical!

The change agents who conveniently call for unity with various denominations which claim to be “Christian” would not be able to respond to the big questions—which of these religious bodies would you consider the church of Christ being united with?

<ol>[*]If the response is “with all of the above,” then, it ain’t gonna happen.

[*]If the response is “NOT with all of the above”—which means being “selective”—which ones would the change agents object to being united with the “body of Christ”? And how would they determine the methodology for choosing? Ecumenism among selected churches has been attempted many times before. It has NEVER worked.

[/list]Isn’t it about time for the change movers to leave the church alone? Otherwise, the change agents—those who sow discord in the brotherhood—should start their own from scratch.

I didn’t bother to count the number of divided religious bodies listed above, even though several denominations identified with their localities (country, province, regions, continent, etc.) have already been removed.

Would someone care to count the number of religions from the three (3) sets of unordered list of churches, and post the total below?

Donnie</font>
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Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

May 21st, 2006, 1:44 pm #23

There is something wrong, something very wrong. There needs to be a change, a big change.

There is this body, this body of believers. This body all believes in the same God. This body believes in the same Savior. Everyone in this body gains the same salvation. Everyone in this body receives the same grace. Everyone in this body is covered by the same blood. Everyone in this body is destined to go to the same place.

Yet, this body is divided, very divided. This body is full of people who think they are always right. This body is full of people that are concentrated on the wrong things. This body is full of people who try to tear each other apart instead of build each other up. This body is full of people that do not accept each other. This believed body of love and unity is sometimes a body of hatred and division.

Is not this body of unity supposed to love each other? Is not this body of unity supposed care for each other? Is not this body of unity supposed to accept each other and its differences? Is not this body of unity supposed to present the lost world with hope? How can this body successfully do these things when it is hurting itself with division and hatred?


WE, AS THE BODY OF CHRIST, ALL BELIEVE IN THE SAME GOD. WE ALL HAVE HOPE IN THE SAME SAVIOR. WE SOMETIMES HAVE DIFFERENT PREFERENCES, BUT WE ALL STILL LOVE OUR SAME GOD. WE NEED TO LAY ASIDE OUR PERSONAL PREFERENCES WHICH HAVE BEEN SHAPED AND MOLDED INTO RULES. BAPTIST, METHODIST, CHURCH OF CHRIST, PRESBYTIRIAN, NAZARENE, AND WHOEVEVER BELIEVES IN THE RISEN SAVIOR, WE ARE ALL A PART OF SAME BODY, THE BODY OF CHRIST. WE ARE BROTHERS, AND WE ARE SISTERS. WE ARE CHRISTIANS. WE ARE ALL GOING TO BE TOGETHER UNIFIED IN HEAVEN FOR ETERNITY. WE NEED TO LOVE EACH OTHER. WE NEED TO ACCEPT EACH OTHER. WE NEED TO CUT THE TENSION AND COME TOGETHER. WE NEED TO BE THE BODY OF CHRIST WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE.



"I am the way and the truth and the light. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6 Jesus is the only way. Our demonation of church does not determine our salvation. Only our acceptance of Jesus Christ as our Lord. Jesus is the way. He is the truth. He is the light. We can be saved by nothing else.
<font size=4>
A TIME TO UNITE, A TIME TO SEPARATE
</font>

<font size=3 face=times new roman>Solomon reminds us there is time for everything (Eccle. 3:1). These verses are not only appropriate for weddings and funeral, but also for situations such as presently confront our brotherhood.

Without doubt heaven's wish is that all Christians stand united in Christ (John 17:21). When we have a common salvation, a common faith and a common goal, we must strive to maintain that unity (Eph. 4:3).
It is certainly to our benefit to be united as a people. A united church is stronger and more effective than a divided church. United we can devote our full time and energy to productive and constructive work for the Master. Standing together we mute many of the accusations of the Evil One.

Given all the above, the fact is there are times and situations that demand separation.
  • We cannot be united with folks who themselves are not united with Christ. We are united with Christ when immersed with him in the likeness of his death (Rom. 6:3-5).
  • We cannot be united with those who walk disorderly and not according to the apostolic traditions (II Thess. 3:6).
  • We cannot be united with those who cause divisions and occasions of stumbling contrary to the doctrine which we have learned from the apostles of Christ. In fact we are instructed to turn away from them (Rom. 16:17).
  • We cannot be united with those are living ungodly lives. Paul specifically says, "Put away the wicked man from among yourselves" (I Cor. 5:13).
  • We cannot be united with those of our brethren who go onward and abide not in the teaching of Christ. To do so is to partake in their evil works (II John 9-11).
  • We cannot be united with those whose approach to worship and the message of Christ is patently contrary to what we know to be God's Truth. Amos asked, "Shall two walk together, unless they have agreed?" (Amos 3:3).
  • We cannot continue in unity and fellowship with those whose false teaching is like leaven that is threatening to corrupt the whole body of Christ. Paul says to purge out the old leaven (I Cor. 5:6-7).
  • We cannot be united with those who are working to destroy the very church to which we have been added (Acts 2:47); for which we have labored and sacrificed; which we believe to be Christ's sacred body and kingdom on earth. To be united and on cordial terms with the enemies of the church of Christ is to be unfaithful to Christ the head of the church.
All of this should come as no surprise to those who know God's Word. Jesus himself said He came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother (Matt. 10:34). The meaning being that loyalty to him and his will must take precedence over that to family and relatives. One becomes a Christian, the other does not. One is faithful to Christ the other is unfaithful. Such situations will always cause separations and division. We should be ready and eager to have unity and fellowship with any man or woman who is obedient to the teaching of Christ. But when a man or a school or a congregation sets about to change the doctrine and the worship ordained by Christ, to change the very nature of Christ's church, then our loyalty to our Savior and King demands that we follow him even if it means leaving the others behind.

One of Satan's deceptive tricks is to press the faithful Christian to continue in fellowship with flagrant error to preserve unity. We must not fall for that deception. Those who compromise with error are often swallowed up by the error. </font>

__________________________________
John Waddey, Editor
Christianity: Then and Now

E-Mail: [url=mailto:johnwaddey@aol.com]johnwaddey@aol.com[/url]
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Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

May 23rd, 2006, 12:11 pm #24

There is something wrong, something very wrong. There needs to be a change, a big change.

There is this body, this body of believers. This body all believes in the same God. This body believes in the same Savior. Everyone in this body gains the same salvation. Everyone in this body receives the same grace. Everyone in this body is covered by the same blood. Everyone in this body is destined to go to the same place.

Yet, this body is divided, very divided. This body is full of people who think they are always right. This body is full of people that are concentrated on the wrong things. This body is full of people who try to tear each other apart instead of build each other up. This body is full of people that do not accept each other. This believed body of love and unity is sometimes a body of hatred and division.

Is not this body of unity supposed to love each other? Is not this body of unity supposed care for each other? Is not this body of unity supposed to accept each other and its differences? Is not this body of unity supposed to present the lost world with hope? How can this body successfully do these things when it is hurting itself with division and hatred?


WE, AS THE BODY OF CHRIST, ALL BELIEVE IN THE SAME GOD. WE ALL HAVE HOPE IN THE SAME SAVIOR. WE SOMETIMES HAVE DIFFERENT PREFERENCES, BUT WE ALL STILL LOVE OUR SAME GOD. WE NEED TO LAY ASIDE OUR PERSONAL PREFERENCES WHICH HAVE BEEN SHAPED AND MOLDED INTO RULES. BAPTIST, METHODIST, CHURCH OF CHRIST, PRESBYTIRIAN, NAZARENE, AND WHOEVEVER BELIEVES IN THE RISEN SAVIOR, WE ARE ALL A PART OF SAME BODY, THE BODY OF CHRIST. WE ARE BROTHERS, AND WE ARE SISTERS. WE ARE CHRISTIANS. WE ARE ALL GOING TO BE TOGETHER UNIFIED IN HEAVEN FOR ETERNITY. WE NEED TO LOVE EACH OTHER. WE NEED TO ACCEPT EACH OTHER. WE NEED TO CUT THE TENSION AND COME TOGETHER. WE NEED TO BE THE BODY OF CHRIST WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE.



"I am the way and the truth and the light. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6 Jesus is the only way. Our demonation of church does not determine our salvation. Only our acceptance of Jesus Christ as our Lord. Jesus is the way. He is the truth. He is the light. We can be saved by nothing else.
<font size=4>
IN CASE YOU HAVEN’T HEARD
</font>

<font size=3 color=blue face=times new roman>It is obvious that many brethren live such insulated lives that they do not know what is transpiring in our far-flung brotherhood. Some have heard rumors about certain preachers, congregations or schools abandoning the ancient faith. The following quotes from a Bro. GH, a vocal change agent, will help folks see the danger confronting us:
  • “The church of the 60’s and 70’s is irrelevant to today’s world. What most ‘change advocates’ want to change is not the gospel, but HOW we do what we do.”
  • “Jesus was many things including a change agent. The prophets were change agents. Such people are always demonized by the protectors of the status quo, then killed by the protectors of the status quo.”
  • “I teach people that baptism is part of their obedience to God, but I would accept a person into fellowship who claimed ‘Jesus as Lord’ even if he/she had not been immersed. My job is to accept those who claim Jesus and are not open and obviously a threat to the flock. I’ll let God ‘sort it all out.’”
  • “… if I teach that a woman may instruct a class of men and women, does that mean I am a ‘false teacher’ who should not be fellowshiped?”
  • “Am I not in Jesus just as you?”
  • “You refer to our historical record as a church. You are right to do so, for that history allows a clear view of a corpse that once was a church that was tolerant and open.”
  • “Unity is more important than the instrument.”
Can you imagine the spiritual state of the church where Bro. GH preaches? Sad, sad!</font>

__________________________________
John Waddey, Editor
Christianity: Then and Now

E-Mail: [url=mailto:johnwaddey@aol.com]johnwaddey@aol.com[/url]
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Darryl Scott
Darryl Scott

May 30th, 2006, 5:04 pm #25

“I teach people that baptism is part of their obedience to God, but I would accept a person into fellowship who claimed ‘Jesus as Lord’ even if he/she had not been immersed. My job is to accept those who claim Jesus and are not open and obviously a threat to the flock. I’ll let God ‘sort it all out.’”


Interesting thought from Mr. GH. I wonder if he believes that man is forgiven of his sins, by God, when he is baptized (immersed) into Christ. If so, is he content to allow this person to be lost, to spend eternity in hell because their sins were not forgiven? It seems a high price to pay in order to “keep the peace”, and all for the sake of unity in the “the flock”. Especially a high price for the one who is going to hell.


Now, Is baptism required for obedience to God? It seems Mr. GH believes so. And, if so, this hypothetical person who claims to ”know Jesus” but does not obey Him would clearly be a liar. I John 2:4 The only other option is that baptism is not in fact required for obedience, and for the forgiveness of sin, and that may very well be the true doctrinal goal behind many of those that want to accept every one that claims Jesus.


He may view his job as accepting those who “claim Jesus” regardless of their obedience to Him, but the Bible tells us not to judge. (Judge falsely) We would do well to remember that false judgment is not only condemning the innocent but also releasing the guilty.


All of this talk of unity. What about the lost? There is more at stake here then “why can’t we all just get along”. There are souls! Are we willing to send them down the river in order to have a group hug?


New to the forum,
Darryl Scott
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

June 11th, 2006, 5:57 am #26

There is something wrong, something very wrong. There needs to be a change, a big change.

There is this body, this body of believers. This body all believes in the same God. This body believes in the same Savior. Everyone in this body gains the same salvation. Everyone in this body receives the same grace. Everyone in this body is covered by the same blood. Everyone in this body is destined to go to the same place.

Yet, this body is divided, very divided. This body is full of people who think they are always right. This body is full of people that are concentrated on the wrong things. This body is full of people who try to tear each other apart instead of build each other up. This body is full of people that do not accept each other. This believed body of love and unity is sometimes a body of hatred and division.

Is not this body of unity supposed to love each other? Is not this body of unity supposed care for each other? Is not this body of unity supposed to accept each other and its differences? Is not this body of unity supposed to present the lost world with hope? How can this body successfully do these things when it is hurting itself with division and hatred?


WE, AS THE BODY OF CHRIST, ALL BELIEVE IN THE SAME GOD. WE ALL HAVE HOPE IN THE SAME SAVIOR. WE SOMETIMES HAVE DIFFERENT PREFERENCES, BUT WE ALL STILL LOVE OUR SAME GOD. WE NEED TO LAY ASIDE OUR PERSONAL PREFERENCES WHICH HAVE BEEN SHAPED AND MOLDED INTO RULES. BAPTIST, METHODIST, CHURCH OF CHRIST, PRESBYTIRIAN, NAZARENE, AND WHOEVEVER BELIEVES IN THE RISEN SAVIOR, WE ARE ALL A PART OF SAME BODY, THE BODY OF CHRIST. WE ARE BROTHERS, AND WE ARE SISTERS. WE ARE CHRISTIANS. WE ARE ALL GOING TO BE TOGETHER UNIFIED IN HEAVEN FOR ETERNITY. WE NEED TO LOVE EACH OTHER. WE NEED TO ACCEPT EACH OTHER. WE NEED TO CUT THE TENSION AND COME TOGETHER. WE NEED TO BE THE BODY OF CHRIST WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE.



"I am the way and the truth and the light. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6 Jesus is the only way. Our demonation of church does not determine our salvation. Only our acceptance of Jesus Christ as our Lord. Jesus is the way. He is the truth. He is the light. We can be saved by nothing else.
<font face=courier>-----Original Message-----
From: fortify_your_faith@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 1:20 PM
To: fortify_your_faith@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fortify your faith] A Lesson to Fortify Your Faith </font>

<font color=black size=3 face=times new roman>Dear Fellow Christian: I urge you to take time to read the lesson below. It speaks to serious challenges facing the church of our generation. If you find it helpful and above all, biblical, I hope you will forward it to other Christians in your email address book.

By cooperating together we can have a positive, constructive influence on our fellow Christians.

John Waddey</font>

__________________________________
    • <font size=4>
      PIERCING QUESTIONS ON UNITY
      </font>


      <font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>It is the desire of God that disciples of Christ be united in the bond of peace (Eph. 4:3). We are expected to work to that end! A great deal is spoken and written about unity and the sin of division , but the careful student soon discovers that there are other dimensions to the subject that are also important.

      Paul asked the Corinthian brethren several pointed questions about unity and fellowship:
      • "What fellowship hath righteousness and iniquity?"
      • "What communion hath light with darkness?"
      • "What concord hath Christ with Belial?"
      • "What portion hath a believer with an unbeliever?" (II Cor. 6:14-16)
      The obvious answer to all of these questions is none. This should prompt us to pause and consider our own situation.

      It sometimes happens that people end up in the fellowship of the church who by their conduct or teaching make themselves unworthy of the privilege. Sinful conduct or dangerous false teachings are as darkness when compared to Christ and his standards. Disruptive disciples or teachers of destructive heresies advance the cause of Belial rather than that of the Son of God. In our day it is not uncommon for skeptics and unbelievers to infiltrate the church. Some lose their faith along the way, most often while pursuing higher education! Yet they persist in staying within the church. Especially is this true of preachers who have lost their faith. It is naive to think such can never happen in our brotherhood. Just look at the rank unbelief that has captured many Protestant bodies and especially the Disciples of Christ who once were part of us. What union can the faithful believer in God, Christ and the Bible have with those who no longer believe in them?

      The fact is, unity is an ideal, a goal toward which we all must strive. The reality is, there have always been and will always be those wanting to operate among us with whom we cannot have brotherly fellowship. We are ordered to mark them that cause divisions and occasions of stumbling contrary to the doctrine we receive and turn away from them! The reason being, "they serve not the Lord Christ, but their own bellies" (Rom. 16:18).
      • There are those who teach another gospel. In so doing they make themselves anathema from God, i.e., cut off and rejected (Gal. 1: 9). How can we have unity and loving fellowship with such people?
      • There are some who are lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God; holding a form of godliness, but having denied the power thereof: from these also turn away" (II Tim. 3:5). How can we enjoy fellowship with such disciples?
      • Those teachers who abide not in the teaching of Christ are not in fellowship with either the Father or the Son (II John 9). It is no wonder that the apostle wrote, Give him no greeting and receive him not into your house "for he that giveth him greeting partaketh in his evil works" (II John 10-11). Here again is a clear case where we are to withhold fellowship from a person or persons who claim to be members of Christ's church but are not faithful servants!
      • Paul did not hesitate to withhold his fellowship from Hymenaeus and Alexander who had made shipwreck concerning the faith (I Tim. 2:19-20). He delivered them unto Satan, i.e., he withdrew his fellowship from them (Comp. I Cor. 5:5).
      Surely Christians should ever be seekers of and workers for unity with all other fellow-Christians (Eph. 4:3). We must never be guilty of conduct or teaching that would cause division in the body of Christ that is contrary to his teaching. But to be true to the Master, there will be times that faithfulness demands that we withhold our fellowship from disorderly or divisive disciples. It is yet another of Satan's deceptive lies when a man teaches us to pursue fellowship with those who are not obedient children of God!

      John Waddey</font>
__________________________________
  • Permission is given to copy and distribute all lessons in this weekly series.
  • Scores of lessons on the change movement are available at http://www.christianity-then-and-now.com
  • Books by John Waddey: Surviving the Storms of Change ($18); Books About the Change Movement: Reviews and Recommendations ($16); Sacred Principles on Which We Stand ($11.75). Make checks to church of Christ and send to John Waddey, 12630 W. Foxfire Dr. Sun City West, AZ 85375
__________________________________
John Waddey, Editor
Christianity: Then and Now

E-Mail: [url=mailto:johnwaddey@aol.com]johnwaddey@aol.com[/url]
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stephen
stephen

June 13th, 2006, 10:20 pm #27

I used to think that the church of Christ was a non-denominational church, but I was wrong. I find that the church is really more divided than anyone in the church would like to admit. In fact there are so many shades of the church of Christ that I think anyone who went from church to church would find that each one is different the the other.

Here is a solid fact about the church of Christ,

No church is the same, meaning beliefs, and the members in each church rarely see eye to eye on everything.

People in the church of Christ talk about how God hates divison, and he does by the way, but in reality the church of Christ is more divided now than ever, and not just from church to church but from member to member. I think the log in our eye is really making it difficult to extrude the log out of our brothers. Just my thoughts.
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Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

June 14th, 2006, 6:40 am #28

<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>Stephen,

It appears that your premise is faulty unless the expression “that the church of Christ” is meant to be “that the church that belongs to Christ.” It really doesn’t matter what the denominational world thinks—what it thinks is not going to change anyway and regardless. What matters is what each member who belongs to Christ’s church believes what church He established at Pentecost.

Let’s rephrase your premise in this manner and see the difference:
  • “I used to think ‘that the church that belongs to Christ’ was a non-denominational church, but I was wrong.”
What a difference there could be in our own attitude concerning the Lord’s church by simply honestly expressing something of this magnitude in a scriptural manner. The likely conclusion would be that the church that belongs to Christ is non-denominational. Indeed!!!

If a member of this body of Christ truly believes that He is the owner of the church He founded and also believes that it is patterned after New Testament guidelines, he shouldn’t even question the validity that there is one body, one Spirit, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all (Eph. 4:4-6).

Does it mean that each member is sinless? Of course, not! Does it mean that all congregations should have a set [same] time and length of assembly period, or have the same number of elders, use one cup or multi-colored cups, etc.? No!

Does it mean that someone who hears the gospel and believes in the Savior needs to repent and be baptized in order to receive remission of sins and be added to the Lord’s church? Yes.

Does it mean that each congregation should adhere to Paul’s admonition—
  • <font color=red>“Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.” (I Cor. 1:10)</font>
Yes! Is unity achievable? Yes! When the elders of the local congregation are grounded in the truth and are apt to teach [one qualification, BTW], cf. I Timothy 3:2; and feed the flock (I Peter 5:2) and are examples to the flock (I Peter 5:3).

Does the above passage apply to differences “from member to member”? No … not any more than to say that a Christian does not sin any longer or cannot fall from grace. So, please discard this idea that individual differences should make the church that belongs to Christ denominational.

It is my hope that you would re-evaluate your premise. The church that belongs to Christ is non-denominational.

Thanks!

Donnie</font>
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Joined: June 8th, 2006, 6:42 pm

June 14th, 2006, 2:54 pm #29

I used to think that the church of Christ was a non-denominational church, but I was wrong. I find that the church is really more divided than anyone in the church would like to admit. In fact there are so many shades of the church of Christ that I think anyone who went from church to church would find that each one is different the the other.

Here is a solid fact about the church of Christ,

No church is the same, meaning beliefs, and the members in each church rarely see eye to eye on everything.

People in the church of Christ talk about how God hates divison, and he does by the way, but in reality the church of Christ is more divided now than ever, and not just from church to church but from member to member. I think the log in our eye is really making it difficult to extrude the log out of our brothers. Just my thoughts.
stephen,

One of the most frustrating ideologies to deal with is this false premise that the Lord's church at ___________ has to answer for the Lord's church at some other place. So why do we have to answer for a group of people that use Christ's name to describe their church but they are not what they should be. (Neither should they have to answer for us if we are not what we should be.) In that case they are apostates that use an accurate description or name of Christ’s one church.

“…in reality the church of Christ is more divided now than ever…”

Respectfully here is where you have missed it completely. The church can not be divided. Are there congregations moving into apostasy? No doubt about it. When they leave the faith they do not divide the church, they separate themselves from it. They lose their candlestick if you will. Even if they still meet together, still have the name on the building, call each other brother and even call me brother. This has happened through the ages. Groups of people who at one time belong to Christ leave so they can serve their own will. They become gods to themselves. Teaching for doctrine the commandments of men.

Acts 20:30 "Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.”

To whom are the Elders mentioned here drawing disciples after? THEMSELVES!

Do various “church of Christ” have conflicting teaching? You are right they do and it breaks my heart. But make no mistake, if they or we teach our commandments in substitute for Christ’s doctrine we are following our own will not Christ. It does not matter what name is on the front of the building? If we do so we or they have not divided the church we have left it.

That is why denominationalism is such a sad thing, as well as being in direct conflict with God’s teaching. We can’t all be right. We can’t have one group saying, “you don’t have to obey Christ commandments to be saved”, and another group saying, “you must obey Christ commandments to be saved”, and both be right. Logic demands that someone is in conflict with God and his word. Someone is “teaching for doctrine the commandment of men.”

I understand the reality of denominationalism in this world, and the fact that most religious groups accept, embrace, and celebrate it is by it’s self an example of the error we see in denominationalism. Even though I see the reality of it, it seems to me many are upset that we do not embrace it, or at the least, they think it wrong that the truth, of one church found in Christ, should be proclaimed.

If you and I and every one we know get it wrong, that will not change the truth that Jesus died for one church.

Truth does not change if I believe a lie with all my heart.

Truth does not change if the majority of the people believe a lie.

Truth does not change if the majority of religious groups believe a lie.

Truth does not change if my parents believe a lie.

Truth does not change if every one in the whole world believes a lie.

My goal is to be in that one church. To love the truth and so be saved. II Thes 2:9ff I refuse to follow the apostate down the road to separation from the Lord’s one church. Feel free to point out hypocrisy from among those who claim Christ. Since when did hypocrisy, yes even hypocrisy among those who have “church of Christ” on their building, change the truth of the Bible?

No it’s about truth and the authority of Christ. Not so much about who you can point to that disagrees or agrees. One church made up only of those who are subject to Christ, not made up of those who do it their own way.
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Joined: June 13th, 2006, 10:24 pm

June 14th, 2006, 8:07 pm #30

<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>Stephen,

It appears that your premise is faulty unless the expression “that the church of Christ” is meant to be “that the church that belongs to Christ.” It really doesn’t matter what the denominational world thinks—what it thinks is not going to change anyway and regardless. What matters is what each member who belongs to Christ’s church believes what church He established at Pentecost.

Let’s rephrase your premise in this manner and see the difference:
  • “I used to think ‘that the church that belongs to Christ’ was a non-denominational church, but I was wrong.”
What a difference there could be in our own attitude concerning the Lord’s church by simply honestly expressing something of this magnitude in a scriptural manner. The likely conclusion would be that the church that belongs to Christ is non-denominational. Indeed!!!

If a member of this body of Christ truly believes that He is the owner of the church He founded and also believes that it is patterned after New Testament guidelines, he shouldn’t even question the validity that there is one body, one Spirit, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all (Eph. 4:4-6).

Does it mean that each member is sinless? Of course, not! Does it mean that all congregations should have a set [same] time and length of assembly period, or have the same number of elders, use one cup or multi-colored cups, etc.? No!

Does it mean that someone who hears the gospel and believes in the Savior needs to repent and be baptized in order to receive remission of sins and be added to the Lord’s church? Yes.

Does it mean that each congregation should adhere to Paul’s admonition—
  • <font color=red>“Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.” (I Cor. 1:10)</font>
Yes! Is unity achievable? Yes! When the elders of the local congregation are grounded in the truth and are apt to teach [one qualification, BTW], cf. I Timothy 3:2; and feed the flock (I Peter 5:2) and are examples to the flock (I Peter 5:3).

Does the above passage apply to differences “from member to member”? No … not any more than to say that a Christian does not sin any longer or cannot fall from grace. So, please discard this idea that individual differences should make the church that belongs to Christ denominational.

It is my hope that you would re-evaluate your premise. The church that belongs to Christ is non-denominational.

Thanks!

Donnie</font>
I agree that everyone in that church will have the same theology about salvation. That is a given. But what about things that don't deal with salvation like musical instruments, how we take the Lord's Supper, not the time, but the manner we do it. Supporting Oprhanages, having a kitchen in the building, etc... Can a church be divided by this. How conseravtive is too conservative and liberal to liberal. I mean is every church right in their own sense or just yours. There are so many shades of the church of Christ it isn't even funny. Thanks for your response.
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