Tell Us Why You Left the Church of Christ

Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

June 19th, 2005, 4:52 am #51

Dr. Crump,

You asked a simple question and I gave you an answer. I did not ask for your opinion, analysis, or judgment. In fact, you have wiped your feet on the guidelines you created. You have no authority to judge me or the decisions I have made in my life. You have no authority to validate or invalidate anything I have done in my life. I’m not seeking your guidance.

Unfortunately, I did not read any of the other posts before replying the first time. If I had I would have immediately realized that your intentions were not to gain information from people, but to preach and judge. Why the dishonesty? If you had been honest you would have said, “tell me why you left the COC and I will give you my judgment.”

Instead, you set out bait to lure people in and then exposed your true intentions. Sounds like predatory behavior to me. That is the way abusers do their work. Why have you chosen such predatory tactics? Does it give you a jolly when you pass your judgment? Does it give you a jolly to preach at people? Does it give you a jolly to treat people like they are spiritually inferior to you? Are you able to be straightforward about your intentions, or are you afraid you will be rejected if you do? Do you use predatory tactics by choice, or were the same tactics used on you?

Who do you think you are to pass judgment on me? Who do you think you are to tell me what I should examine and what I should question? Who do you think you are to pick around in my life experience and then tell me what is right and what is wrong about it? What makes you an authority on what is Biblical and what is not? What makes your opinion truth? Where does the buck stop with you? You are not interested in “learning” from people who left the COC, you are interested in working your agenda. Why the dishonesty? I’m not interested in playing a sick little game with you.
"Anonymous" made several accusations against the Church of Christ, for example that we are too "restrictive," yet s/he hid behind the cloak of anonymity and never provided an explanation, despite our requests. We won't belabor this or his/her "reasons" for having left the Church of Christ, either. It's no surprise that virtually all the other posts from those who left were made in partial or complete anonymity. That's revealing, and it is enough.

This thread has been a fact-finding survey, and we have not been deceptive. In any survey, an analysis of the "data" is eventually made, and conclusions are eventually drawn. That time is NOW. Contrary to the opinion of others, we HAVE learned from this thread. From studying all the previous posts, it has become clear that people leave the Church of Christ because of personal grudges, petty conflicts, or just plain stubborn determination not to follow the Scriptures if they don't coincide with personal opinions and preferences. The Church remains pure; there is no need to overhaul or repair the Church. Only dissenters and rebels need spiritual overhauling. Case closed.
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Anonymous
Anonymous

June 19th, 2005, 9:27 am #52

<font size=3 color=indigo face=Times New Roman>Anonymous:

I have just reread Dr. Crump’s three guidelines for responding: (1) … Be specific … please refrain from generic responses like, “I hated” the church of Christ; (2) If you left and later returned …; (3) What … to do so that people would not leave….

It appears that in response to #1, you have covered [quite in detail] a lot of ground on the basis of your own personal experiences with your “environment” (but everyone has his/her own set of experiences—this includes myself). For intellectuals like you—and I meant that sincerely—your unfortunate set of circumstances in the past is hardly a valid point for discussion in this thread in light of the differences in doctrinal matters, vast or small, among various religious groups.

In addition, this website’s main focus has been on issues regarding changes taking place in churches—changes that have caused people either to be alienated or to leave their home congregation because the leadership has allowed or forced such changes to occur. I don’t believe that Dr. Crump’s intent was to use this thread as a confessional in order to relieve guilt or pain, although we sympathize and commiserate, or to use this thread to discuss social issues regarding child molestation, physical abuses, etc., and immoral lives of other people.

In essence, I have gotten the same impression that while you were specific in your initial post regarding your unfortunate experiences while growing up (and you added even more of the same in your subsequent post) … the impression that you literally hate and feel resentful toward “the church of Christ”—it is obvious! How else can I make that statement without sounding rude? And in your third post, you sounded hateful to Dr. Crump—this time personally.

Regarding point #2—this is somewhat inapplicable for the reason that, and I believe it is safe to say, you have not returned.

Regarding point #3—you haven’t made comments or suggestions. Or, have you? I guess it remains to be seen.

Now, let’s go back to point #2—the reason for the title of this post. “Did I misunderstand this declaration in your earlier post?” Your original statement was:
  • “I was born into a COC family, attended church three times a week, and was sent to a private COC school K-12. I was never baptized in the COC because even as a young child things did not add up.”
With your level of intelligence, you would not soon forget this scriptural doctrine that a penitent or repentant sinner is not added to the church (Acts 2:37-42) until he has been baptized into Christ in order to have his sins remitted in the blood of the Lamb. Your declaration is that you were “never baptized in the COC because….” And the logical and intelligent conclusion is that you were never [your own word] a member of this church in the first place. And, therefore, you never left the church you were never a member of. Is this making sense? [Believe me … I’m not judging you. I’m only trying to make sense of your declaration. OK?]

Donnie </font>
Donnie,

If people are leaving your church, then it is a very good idea to ask questions of people who have left. It is also a good idea to patiently listen to what they have to say and treat them, and the information they offer you, with respect. It is an even better idea to reflect on what people have to say and then ask yourself some tough questions. The questions you ask of yourself are much more valuable than information you can gain from other people.

If, because I was never baptized in the COC, you do not consider my opinion valid, then you will be faced with more people leaving your church and more changes in your future. If you only want to discuss doctrinal matters, then once again expect more people to leave and more changes in your future. Are you only interested in reasons? One’s experience goes well below that surface. Are you interested in going below the surface of what you are faced with? I will not wrap my experience in or opinion of the COC in pretty paper and stick a bow on it so as not to offend you.

I represent thousands and thousands of people who grew up in the COC feeling like they had no say in regard to their spiritual lives. I had no choice in what type of church I could attend. Church services were mandatory for me. I did not choose to go to a COC school, or to attend COC Bible class and chapel every day while at school. Questioning was forbidden. Attending services of another faith was forbidden. Making friends with children outside of the COC was discouraged. That is a lot of control. I did attended services at other COC congregations and they all seemed to be about the same. All of my COC classmates lived under the same level of control that I did.

Do I hate the COC? No! What I did hate were the experiences I had within the COC. One of the people I love the dearest in my life is a man who was, and still is, an elder in the COC that I grew up in. He has never questioned the decisions I have made in my life. He has always offered me unconditional love and treated me with a great deal of affection. His example has always been an inspiration to me. Because of his work that congregation has made some very positive changes. But he was only one man in my experience, and it did not give me the balance or shelter I needed as a child. I think a lot of people within the COC could learn a lot from him, especially about his demeanor and way of approaching and relating with people. The members within my mother’s church look after her and I love them for that because 2000 miles separate us. They helped take care of my father when he was dying from cancer, and were very supportive of me and the rest of my family after he died. How could I possibly hate that?

Anger is not hatred and should not be mistaken for hatred. I am angry about what I was subjected to as a child. And I am angry that religion is a wedge issue that prevents people from having meaningful relationships when points of view are different. A few years after I graduated from my COC high school, I was hired by the school to produce some marketing materials for them. I worked with one of my former teachers on the project. Although she was one of my favorite teachers when I attended there, I found myself at one point giving her a piece of my mind about the way I, and others, were treated by other teachers and members of administration when we were students. She was shocked, but responded that they had made a lot of changes. The changes, she said, were made because too many children were committing suicide. It took dead children before they were willing to listen. I knew it would come to that.

As for my last post and my response to Dr. Crump, I treated him the same way I would treat anyone who walked into my house uninvited and started trashing the place. I did not offer up personal information so that it could be twisted into a pretzel and trampled, and I will not tolerate it. There is nothing personal or hateful about that. No means no. It does not mean proceed if you are sure you know what is best for me. I’m not the only person who left the COC feeling spiritually violated, and I was never even a member. If that reason for departure is acceptable to you, then stay the course, continue to talk, and refuse to hear. I certainly have nothing more to offer you.


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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

June 19th, 2005, 1:23 pm #53

<font size=3 color=indigo face=Times New Roman>Anonymous:

I have just reread Dr. Crump’s three guidelines for responding: (1) … Be specific … please refrain from generic responses like, “I hated” the church of Christ; (2) If you left and later returned …; (3) What … to do so that people would not leave….

It appears that in response to #1, you have covered [quite in detail] a lot of ground on the basis of your own personal experiences with your “environment” (but everyone has his/her own set of experiences—this includes myself). For intellectuals like you—and I meant that sincerely—your unfortunate set of circumstances in the past is hardly a valid point for discussion in this thread in light of the differences in doctrinal matters, vast or small, among various religious groups.

In addition, this website’s main focus has been on issues regarding changes taking place in churches—changes that have caused people either to be alienated or to leave their home congregation because the leadership has allowed or forced such changes to occur. I don’t believe that Dr. Crump’s intent was to use this thread as a confessional in order to relieve guilt or pain, although we sympathize and commiserate, or to use this thread to discuss social issues regarding child molestation, physical abuses, etc., and immoral lives of other people.

In essence, I have gotten the same impression that while you were specific in your initial post regarding your unfortunate experiences while growing up (and you added even more of the same in your subsequent post) … the impression that you literally hate and feel resentful toward “the church of Christ”—it is obvious! How else can I make that statement without sounding rude? And in your third post, you sounded hateful to Dr. Crump—this time personally.

Regarding point #2—this is somewhat inapplicable for the reason that, and I believe it is safe to say, you have not returned.

Regarding point #3—you haven’t made comments or suggestions. Or, have you? I guess it remains to be seen.

Now, let’s go back to point #2—the reason for the title of this post. “Did I misunderstand this declaration in your earlier post?” Your original statement was:
  • “I was born into a COC family, attended church three times a week, and was sent to a private COC school K-12. I was never baptized in the COC because even as a young child things did not add up.”
With your level of intelligence, you would not soon forget this scriptural doctrine that a penitent or repentant sinner is not added to the church (Acts 2:37-42) until he has been baptized into Christ in order to have his sins remitted in the blood of the Lamb. Your declaration is that you were “never baptized in the COC because….” And the logical and intelligent conclusion is that you were never [your own word] a member of this church in the first place. And, therefore, you never left the church you were never a member of. Is this making sense? [Believe me … I’m not judging you. I’m only trying to make sense of your declaration. OK?]

Donnie </font>
What’s worse than a person who abuses this thread as a means to bash and criticize the Church of Christ? It’s a person who abuses this thread as a means to bash and criticize the Church of Christ but WHO NEVER WAS A MEMBER AT ALL. Worse still is someone who wraps themselves in the shroud of anonymity.

Donnie called our attention to the seemingly obscure fact that, amid “Anonymous’” personal rages against us, s/he managed to slip in that s/he had never been baptized in the Church of Christ; therefore s/he had never been a member! That really takes the cake!

“Anonymous” was really slick. S/he had read the introductory guidelines to this thread but chose to ignore the fact that we had invited responses only from FORMER MEMBERS of the Church of Christ. So “Anonymous” barged in, hurling vain and vague accusations against us while ironically trying to gain our sympathy with a mountain of verbiage about physical abuse, that somehow the Church of Christ was responsible for it all. (I’ll even admit that I got lost in the “problem list” and just about forgot that s/he was not a member.) Then when we sought more specifics from him/her, “Anonymous” turned viciously defensive and hotly accused us of being deceitful, of having a hidden agenda. That is indeed most revealing.

Ladies and gentlemen, I submit that the deception lies with “Anonymous,” who deliberately attempted to divert our attention not only toward her “problems” caused by an allegedly abusive Church of Christ, but also away from the fact that s/he was not even a member of the Church of Christ. Thus “Anonymous,” filled with venom and hate, slipped in the back door to jab and punch the Church of Christ. That is truly deceitful!

“Anonymous,” acting the wounded rabbit, claimed to have forgiven us for our alleged “deceit,” but the forgiveness is misplaced. We should be the ones forgiving “Anonymous,” for having abused this thread to publish his/her slander and hatred against the Church of Christ.
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Joined: February 14th, 2004, 10:46 pm

June 19th, 2005, 1:34 pm #54

<font size=3 color=indigo face=Times New Roman>Anonymous:

I have just reread Dr. Crump’s three guidelines for responding: (1) … Be specific … please refrain from generic responses like, “I hated” the church of Christ; (2) If you left and later returned …; (3) What … to do so that people would not leave….

It appears that in response to #1, you have covered [quite in detail] a lot of ground on the basis of your own personal experiences with your “environment” (but everyone has his/her own set of experiences—this includes myself). For intellectuals like you—and I meant that sincerely—your unfortunate set of circumstances in the past is hardly a valid point for discussion in this thread in light of the differences in doctrinal matters, vast or small, among various religious groups.

In addition, this website’s main focus has been on issues regarding changes taking place in churches—changes that have caused people either to be alienated or to leave their home congregation because the leadership has allowed or forced such changes to occur. I don’t believe that Dr. Crump’s intent was to use this thread as a confessional in order to relieve guilt or pain, although we sympathize and commiserate, or to use this thread to discuss social issues regarding child molestation, physical abuses, etc., and immoral lives of other people.

In essence, I have gotten the same impression that while you were specific in your initial post regarding your unfortunate experiences while growing up (and you added even more of the same in your subsequent post) … the impression that you literally hate and feel resentful toward “the church of Christ”—it is obvious! How else can I make that statement without sounding rude? And in your third post, you sounded hateful to Dr. Crump—this time personally.

Regarding point #2—this is somewhat inapplicable for the reason that, and I believe it is safe to say, you have not returned.

Regarding point #3—you haven’t made comments or suggestions. Or, have you? I guess it remains to be seen.

Now, let’s go back to point #2—the reason for the title of this post. “Did I misunderstand this declaration in your earlier post?” Your original statement was:
  • “I was born into a COC family, attended church three times a week, and was sent to a private COC school K-12. I was never baptized in the COC because even as a young child things did not add up.”
With your level of intelligence, you would not soon forget this scriptural doctrine that a penitent or repentant sinner is not added to the church (Acts 2:37-42) until he has been baptized into Christ in order to have his sins remitted in the blood of the Lamb. Your declaration is that you were “never baptized in the COC because….” And the logical and intelligent conclusion is that you were never [your own word] a member of this church in the first place. And, therefore, you never left the church you were never a member of. Is this making sense? [Believe me … I’m not judging you. I’m only trying to make sense of your declaration. OK?]

Donnie </font>
Hey, I understand your point about him not being a member but...read this whole thread and it does appear that while the initial question seems innocent and interesting, just a fact finding mission, the replies do appear that there is an agenda. It appears that any answer will be evaluated and the person who has left will be told they are wrong. I am with those who are opposed to Purpose Driven movement and one thing that we noticed was that there was a lack of dialogue about issues--our pastor made it seem like anyone who didnt agree with his plan to build the big church,etc was stupid. This thread is doing the same thing--do you really think anybody else who left will give any honest feedback after seeing this person get a message that tells him that his personal experiences are just excuses??? How about saying Thanks for telling us your unfortunate story and we are so glad you are still in fellowship with God?? It is very much a cult like behavior if you think that people can not leave. Thanks for letting me give my opinion on this one.
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not likely
not likely

June 19th, 2005, 5:18 pm #55

"Anonymous" made several accusations against the Church of Christ, for example that we are too "restrictive," yet s/he hid behind the cloak of anonymity and never provided an explanation, despite our requests. We won't belabor this or his/her "reasons" for having left the Church of Christ, either. It's no surprise that virtually all the other posts from those who left were made in partial or complete anonymity. That's revealing, and it is enough.

This thread has been a fact-finding survey, and we have not been deceptive. In any survey, an analysis of the "data" is eventually made, and conclusions are eventually drawn. That time is NOW. Contrary to the opinion of others, we HAVE learned from this thread. From studying all the previous posts, it has become clear that people leave the Church of Christ because of personal grudges, petty conflicts, or just plain stubborn determination not to follow the Scriptures if they don't coincide with personal opinions and preferences. The Church remains pure; there is no need to overhaul or repair the Church. Only dissenters and rebels need spiritual overhauling. Case closed.
This site is indicative of why many of us are leaving, if not bodily, at least in spirit. A human being pours out his heart to you. Telling you about a father's lost life and love, about a tortured mother and about a childhood abuse and you guys want to examine his arguments and parse his verbs. Anyone out there who still has a heart...RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!
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Joined: February 14th, 2004, 10:46 pm

June 19th, 2005, 5:53 pm #56

"Anonymous" made several accusations against the Church of Christ, for example that we are too "restrictive," yet s/he hid behind the cloak of anonymity and never provided an explanation, despite our requests. We won't belabor this or his/her "reasons" for having left the Church of Christ, either. It's no surprise that virtually all the other posts from those who left were made in partial or complete anonymity. That's revealing, and it is enough.

This thread has been a fact-finding survey, and we have not been deceptive. In any survey, an analysis of the "data" is eventually made, and conclusions are eventually drawn. That time is NOW. Contrary to the opinion of others, we HAVE learned from this thread. From studying all the previous posts, it has become clear that people leave the Church of Christ because of personal grudges, petty conflicts, or just plain stubborn determination not to follow the Scriptures if they don't coincide with personal opinions and preferences. The Church remains pure; there is no need to overhaul or repair the Church. Only dissenters and rebels need spiritual overhauling. Case closed.
It would be interesting to ask Martin Luther and the Reverend John Robinson (Pastor of the Pilgrims) about your comment "Only dissenters and rebels need spiritual overhauling." As they might attest, sometimes the spiritual overhaul leads one closer to God and away from the church of one's youth. Something to think about.
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Anonymous
Anonymous

June 19th, 2005, 8:54 pm #57

"Anonymous" made several accusations against the Church of Christ, for example that we are too "restrictive," yet s/he hid behind the cloak of anonymity and never provided an explanation, despite our requests. We won't belabor this or his/her "reasons" for having left the Church of Christ, either. It's no surprise that virtually all the other posts from those who left were made in partial or complete anonymity. That's revealing, and it is enough.

This thread has been a fact-finding survey, and we have not been deceptive. In any survey, an analysis of the "data" is eventually made, and conclusions are eventually drawn. That time is NOW. Contrary to the opinion of others, we HAVE learned from this thread. From studying all the previous posts, it has become clear that people leave the Church of Christ because of personal grudges, petty conflicts, or just plain stubborn determination not to follow the Scriptures if they don't coincide with personal opinions and preferences. The Church remains pure; there is no need to overhaul or repair the Church. Only dissenters and rebels need spiritual overhauling. Case closed.
Amazingly sad! Rather than lead people to Christ we rebuke them in an attempt to build ourselves up? Show me the Biblical principal to support this. I would suggest that the coC supporters do a few serious studies and you can use the word pride for one and humility for another. My guess is that with the hardened hearts on this forum that will take you through the Millennial Kingdom.
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still anonymous
still anonymous

June 20th, 2005, 12:59 am #58

Dr. Crump:
No point in putting my name on here. I won't post again.
The church IS the people, the members; and we ALL need overhauling. If we are LIVING our doctrine, which should be love-based( as per Jesus), then there would not be much separation of our doctrine and of our walk.

And, I for one did not notice any empathy from either you or Donnie toward the fellow that said he had left the Church of Christ.I know many who have had terrible cand confusing experiences in their CHURCH lives; It wasn't that they had terrible experiences in their home: it was inflicted by church people.

I know of a Church of Christ school where a male teacher was calling young female students at home and being a little too close physically with them at school. It was hushed up and he is STILL at the school.
Not to just lnock the church pf Christ, I believe all pride based organizations which set themselves above all others and shame those who do not measure up and whop believe they are the only ones going to heaven have this problem. The Chruch of Christ needs to be very careful to eradicate cult like characteristics. That need to control and shame people puts the mainstream Coc very near the ICOC in some cases. Not all.

Ask a family who lost a loved one to sucide because they couldn't live up to CoC standards, how they feel about the CoC.
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Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

June 20th, 2005, 2:43 am #59

Donnie,

If people are leaving your church, then it is a very good idea to ask questions of people who have left. It is also a good idea to patiently listen to what they have to say and treat them, and the information they offer you, with respect. It is an even better idea to reflect on what people have to say and then ask yourself some tough questions. The questions you ask of yourself are much more valuable than information you can gain from other people.

If, because I was never baptized in the COC, you do not consider my opinion valid, then you will be faced with more people leaving your church and more changes in your future. If you only want to discuss doctrinal matters, then once again expect more people to leave and more changes in your future. Are you only interested in reasons? One’s experience goes well below that surface. Are you interested in going below the surface of what you are faced with? I will not wrap my experience in or opinion of the COC in pretty paper and stick a bow on it so as not to offend you.

I represent thousands and thousands of people who grew up in the COC feeling like they had no say in regard to their spiritual lives. I had no choice in what type of church I could attend. Church services were mandatory for me. I did not choose to go to a COC school, or to attend COC Bible class and chapel every day while at school. Questioning was forbidden. Attending services of another faith was forbidden. Making friends with children outside of the COC was discouraged. That is a lot of control. I did attended services at other COC congregations and they all seemed to be about the same. All of my COC classmates lived under the same level of control that I did.

Do I hate the COC? No! What I did hate were the experiences I had within the COC. One of the people I love the dearest in my life is a man who was, and still is, an elder in the COC that I grew up in. He has never questioned the decisions I have made in my life. He has always offered me unconditional love and treated me with a great deal of affection. His example has always been an inspiration to me. Because of his work that congregation has made some very positive changes. But he was only one man in my experience, and it did not give me the balance or shelter I needed as a child. I think a lot of people within the COC could learn a lot from him, especially about his demeanor and way of approaching and relating with people. The members within my mother’s church look after her and I love them for that because 2000 miles separate us. They helped take care of my father when he was dying from cancer, and were very supportive of me and the rest of my family after he died. How could I possibly hate that?

Anger is not hatred and should not be mistaken for hatred. I am angry about what I was subjected to as a child. And I am angry that religion is a wedge issue that prevents people from having meaningful relationships when points of view are different. A few years after I graduated from my COC high school, I was hired by the school to produce some marketing materials for them. I worked with one of my former teachers on the project. Although she was one of my favorite teachers when I attended there, I found myself at one point giving her a piece of my mind about the way I, and others, were treated by other teachers and members of administration when we were students. She was shocked, but responded that they had made a lot of changes. The changes, she said, were made because too many children were committing suicide. It took dead children before they were willing to listen. I knew it would come to that.

As for my last post and my response to Dr. Crump, I treated him the same way I would treat anyone who walked into my house uninvited and started trashing the place. I did not offer up personal information so that it could be twisted into a pretzel and trampled, and I will not tolerate it. There is nothing personal or hateful about that. No means no. It does not mean proceed if you are sure you know what is best for me. I’m not the only person who left the COC feeling spiritually violated, and I was never even a member. If that reason for departure is acceptable to you, then stay the course, continue to talk, and refuse to hear. I certainly have nothing more to offer you.

<font size=3 color=indigo face=Times New Roman>Anonymous:

I’m afraid I’ll have to say that you HAVE CONTINUED to make accusations against the particular church that you resent and are obviously “angry” with [OK, I’m not using the word “hate” per your advice]. Continue to bash? Yes. Why? I believe I counted 14 times that you specifically mentioned “COC”—and that’s not even counting your other types of references to this church you are “angry” toward. You also continue to make a declarative statement that the things you have enumerated happen “in the COC” with no implication whatsoever that they are circumstances that occur in hundreds of religious faiths in the world. Therefore, if you should insist that for these reasons people are leaving this church, I must emphasize to you that this statement is an illogical argument when you make it an isolated set of circumstances that occur in churches of Christ without further qualification that it also happens everywhere else.

My point is that with all things being equal, meaning that since all religious faiths are affected by these HUMAN inclinations and preponderance, the bottom line is that it all comes down to differences in doctrinal issues, preferences, acceptable changes to one church or congregation that may not be acceptable to another. Simply, e.g., it is illogical for one to say that he is leaving religious faith #A due to the immoral behavior by one or two of its members for religious faith #B because all its members are saints.

Believe me … I have listened to you because I don’t normally respond to anonymous posters who are emboldened to make accusations because responses to such accusations are usually deemed as being judgmental. At the outset I mentioned that “I feel your pain.” Remember?

No, I’m sorry, but I do not intend to cease from discussing doctrinal issues. These are the important issues that change agents have used as tools so that as they cause division in the church, the ones who are swayed to their cause ultimately become part of their acquisition attempts.

Your example about someone who offered unconditional love is a little too late for discussion. Your example of children committing suicide, regardless of how true and unfortunate, is one more of your attempts to disregard one intent of this thread—to evaluate as to what different churches really believe that are right to some and wrong to others … that cause some to leave and others to remain.

There’s probably nothing more I can say to further our conversation. Either I will end up repeating myself (and I think I’ve already done that) OR you will keep adding more (which you have continued to do so) of your grievances toward the church you despise.

By the way, you forgot to mention the name of the religious faith of your preference. You don’t need to mention where … just the name of your religious organization. You obviously are very proud of this “better” church than the one you are so angry toward.

Thanks for posting!!! (I mean that very sincerely.)

Donnie </font>
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Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

June 20th, 2005, 4:09 am #60

This thread invites former members of the Church of Christ to tell us exactly why you left this faith. We are always being told that the Church of Christ is a vanishing sect, so we would like you to tell us why. What made the Church of Christ odious to you? Was our doctrine too strict? Was there too little love? Did you prefer instrumental music over a cappella singing? Did you want more programs and interactive features with group participation? Were the sermons too long or too theological? Spill your guts! Unload your heart! What drove you away? Usually, something most significant compels people to leave their faith entirely and embrace another, or none at all, so we’re here to learn from you, not condemn you for leaving. If you respond, please include as much of the following information as possible:

1. The exact reasons why you left. Please be very specific. Please refrain from generic responses like, “I hated the Church of Christ.”

2. If you left and then later returned to the Church of Christ, what specifically brought you back?

3. What, if anything, would you have the Church of Christ do so that people would not leave? In other words, what changes, if any, would you need to see before you would ever be willing to return to the Church of Christ?

If by responding, your intention is merely to bash and criticize the Church of Christ, there are plenty of other threads at this site which will allow you the opportunity to vent. In like manner, taking issue with those who respond will serve no purpose in this thread. Take it elsewhere.
<font size=3 color=blue face=Times New Roman>Dear Still,

No, the church is the spiritual body of Christ, His bride. Why would you overhaul that which was established or founded by Christ? Just because none of us is perfect or sinless, it doesn’t mean that Christ or its foundation is imperfect and needs overhauling. Nor does our imperfection make the church a cult. That which has Christ the Rock as its foundation does not need overhauling!!!!!! You and I and our individual personal lives may need overhauling—but not that which Christ built.

BTW, correction, please, to your remark that you did not notice any empathy from either one of us. Do a search on what Dr. Crump and I have been saying and see if by chance you come across these words and expressions: “I feel your pain” … “your unfortunate family experiences” … “I have listened to you” … “we sympathize and commiserate” ….

We don’t need any more of your blaming the church nor attacking the standards and principles it abides by as set forth in the New Testament. Our imperfections must not lower God’s standards. We cannot change …
  • <font color=red>
  • Luke 14:27—“And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.”
  • Gal. 6:5—“For every man shall bear his own burden.”
  • Rev. 2:10—“Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.” And there are more admonitions in the epistles. If we cannot live by these principles, then, we shouldn’t blame God and His church. But there is comfort in the truth and promise in …
  • I John 5:3—“For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.” </font>
Meanwhile, Paul accurately stated in Acts 20—
  • <font color=red>“ [28] Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. [29] For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.” It is happening now! </font>
Donnie </font>
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