St. Paul - how to deal with a joker (change agent) @ your local church

St. Paul - how to deal with a joker (change agent) @ your local church

Joined: October 7th, 2010, 12:36 am

November 6th, 2010, 8:36 pm #1

http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/5-13.htm

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.



=====================================

UPDATE: 11/13/2010

This is truly an excellent title that speaks volumes about a group of agents in the church -- how to deal with a JOKER: change agent at your local church. It is certainly an attention-getter.

There has been a bit of confusion as to who the change agents really are; how to identify these individuals and associate them with their destructive and damaging activities in the church. Some of their ardent supporters and disciples even go so far in asserting that Jesus Christ himself was the greatest change agent of all or that the great men of the Restoration Movement were change agents during their time and, therefore, can be equated to the "change agents" of the last few decades.

We need to rectify that misconception.

We'll be constantly updating and adding messages to this thread -- which will be ongoing for a while -- so as to continually provide information regarding the change agents operating in the brotherhood. We will be discussing the following from:

  • Simplified Process of Transitioning an Established Church
    </li>
  • Another Method: How to Transition an Established Church
    </li>
  • Prominent Change Agents in the Church of Christ -- Their Unique Behavior Pattern
    </li>
  • What Are Change Agents?
    </li>
  • Who Are Change Agents?
    </li>
  • What Are Some Characteristics of "Change Agents" (As They Attempt to Present Themselves As Theologians Who Have Discovered New Truths)?
    </li>
  • Change Agents Operate on Faulty Assumptions: John Waddey Avers
    </li>
  • Change Agents Are Committed to Change the Church of Christ
    </li>
  • Evaluation of the Change Package Implemented in the Transitioning Church of Christ
    </li>
  • Agents Advocating Change: Their Objectives and Activities
    </li>
  • Criticism for Efforts of the Past: Exaggerated and Encouraged
    </li>
  • Community Church: Model for Church of Christ in Transition
    </li>
  • Modernize the Church: The Secular- or Culture-Driven Approach
    </li>
  • Bible Translation & Other Sources: New Testament Principles Devalued
    </li>
  • Church Leadership, Organization, Government: Experimentation
    </li>
  • Worship: The Trending "Musical" Worship Content and Casualness
    </li>
  • The Lord's Supper and Social Fellowship -- More Than Just a Memorial
    </li>
  • Doctrines Derived from Denominations: Biblical Truth Being Perverted
    </li>
  • Holy Spirit and Spiritual Gifts: Teachings Imitated by the Change Agents</li>
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on November 13th, 2010, 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 7th, 2010, 7:39 am #2

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]A great title!!! And an accurate reference: I Cor.5:13.

The change agent is also an intruder; a divider; one whose primary of his agenda is to reorganize and restructure the church; a revisionist whose aim is to rewrite the history of the Restoration Movement; one who's taken lessons and acquired doctrines and teachings from his denominational neighbors.

Since this website has been primarily about the Change Agents (especially prominent ones) operating in the brotherhood, I would like for readers to revisit one of our previous remarkable threads:

[/color]
Quote
Like
Share

Anonymous
Anonymous

November 8th, 2010, 2:39 am #3

http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/5-13.htm

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.



=====================================

UPDATE: 11/13/2010

This is truly an excellent title that speaks volumes about a group of agents in the church -- how to deal with a JOKER: change agent at your local church. It is certainly an attention-getter.

There has been a bit of confusion as to who the change agents really are; how to identify these individuals and associate them with their destructive and damaging activities in the church. Some of their ardent supporters and disciples even go so far in asserting that Jesus Christ himself was the greatest change agent of all or that the great men of the Restoration Movement were change agents during their time and, therefore, can be equated to the "change agents" of the last few decades.

We need to rectify that misconception.

We'll be constantly updating and adding messages to this thread -- which will be ongoing for a while -- so as to continually provide information regarding the change agents operating in the brotherhood. We will be discussing the following from:

  • Simplified Process of Transitioning an Established Church
    </li>
  • Another Method: How to Transition an Established Church
    </li>
  • Prominent Change Agents in the Church of Christ -- Their Unique Behavior Pattern
    </li>
  • What Are Change Agents?
    </li>
  • Who Are Change Agents?
    </li>
  • What Are Some Characteristics of "Change Agents" (As They Attempt to Present Themselves As Theologians Who Have Discovered New Truths)?
    </li>
  • Change Agents Operate on Faulty Assumptions: John Waddey Avers
    </li>
  • Change Agents Are Committed to Change the Church of Christ
    </li>
  • Evaluation of the Change Package Implemented in the Transitioning Church of Christ
    </li>
  • Agents Advocating Change: Their Objectives and Activities
    </li>
  • Criticism for Efforts of the Past: Exaggerated and Encouraged
    </li>
  • Community Church: Model for Church of Christ in Transition
    </li>
  • Modernize the Church: The Secular- or Culture-Driven Approach
    </li>
  • Bible Translation & Other Sources: New Testament Principles Devalued
    </li>
  • Church Leadership, Organization, Government: Experimentation
    </li>
  • Worship: The Trending "Musical" Worship Content and Casualness
    </li>
  • The Lord's Supper and Social Fellowship -- More Than Just a Memorial
    </li>
  • Doctrines Derived from Denominations: Biblical Truth Being Perverted
    </li>
  • Holy Spirit and Spiritual Gifts: Teachings Imitated by the Change Agents</li>
All 13 verses of this chapter are addressing the wicked acts of sexual immorality, idolatry, slander, drunkards, and such, and not ethical, or moral, Christians who are seen as more conservative or liberal than you or me in their perspective of Scripture and worship. Other Scriptures address this, but this one on wickedness and expelling does not. Using a text out of its context is a distortion of God's Word, and it is a crass distortion if the misapplication is deliberate.

-Sonny
Quote
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 8th, 2010, 2:47 am #4

http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/5-13.htm

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.



=====================================

UPDATE: 11/13/2010

This is truly an excellent title that speaks volumes about a group of agents in the church -- how to deal with a JOKER: change agent at your local church. It is certainly an attention-getter.

There has been a bit of confusion as to who the change agents really are; how to identify these individuals and associate them with their destructive and damaging activities in the church. Some of their ardent supporters and disciples even go so far in asserting that Jesus Christ himself was the greatest change agent of all or that the great men of the Restoration Movement were change agents during their time and, therefore, can be equated to the "change agents" of the last few decades.

We need to rectify that misconception.

We'll be constantly updating and adding messages to this thread -- which will be ongoing for a while -- so as to continually provide information regarding the change agents operating in the brotherhood. We will be discussing the following from:

  • Simplified Process of Transitioning an Established Church
    </li>
  • Another Method: How to Transition an Established Church
    </li>
  • Prominent Change Agents in the Church of Christ -- Their Unique Behavior Pattern
    </li>
  • What Are Change Agents?
    </li>
  • Who Are Change Agents?
    </li>
  • What Are Some Characteristics of "Change Agents" (As They Attempt to Present Themselves As Theologians Who Have Discovered New Truths)?
    </li>
  • Change Agents Operate on Faulty Assumptions: John Waddey Avers
    </li>
  • Change Agents Are Committed to Change the Church of Christ
    </li>
  • Evaluation of the Change Package Implemented in the Transitioning Church of Christ
    </li>
  • Agents Advocating Change: Their Objectives and Activities
    </li>
  • Criticism for Efforts of the Past: Exaggerated and Encouraged
    </li>
  • Community Church: Model for Church of Christ in Transition
    </li>
  • Modernize the Church: The Secular- or Culture-Driven Approach
    </li>
  • Bible Translation & Other Sources: New Testament Principles Devalued
    </li>
  • Church Leadership, Organization, Government: Experimentation
    </li>
  • Worship: The Trending "Musical" Worship Content and Casualness
    </li>
  • The Lord's Supper and Social Fellowship -- More Than Just a Memorial
    </li>
  • Doctrines Derived from Denominations: Biblical Truth Being Perverted
    </li>
  • Holy Spirit and Spiritual Gifts: Teachings Imitated by the Change Agents</li>

Quote
Like
Share

Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

November 8th, 2010, 7:10 pm #5

All 13 verses of this chapter are addressing the wicked acts of sexual immorality, idolatry, slander, drunkards, and such, and not ethical, or moral, Christians who are seen as more conservative or liberal than you or me in their perspective of Scripture and worship. Other Scriptures address this, but this one on wickedness and expelling does not. Using a text out of its context is a distortion of God's Word, and it is a crass distortion if the misapplication is deliberate.

-Sonny
[color=#000000" size="3" face="times]It is of great significance to notice the destructive nature of change agents [akin to the socialism-minded liberals in the realm of American politics]. In seeking approval and acceptance by the "ecumenical council of denominational churches," the change agents in the brotherhood are driven to achieving "church growth" goals and objectives by compromising God's truth and behaving just like "the other nations."

The change agents despise and detest their own "heritage" and make every attempt to reform, rewrite, revise the Restoration Movement history. To them it's no longer about restoring New Testament Christianity and abiding by NT teachings and principles. Rather, it is about whatever it takes (half-truths, unscriptural beliefs and "Scripture-does-not-prohibit-rather-than-Scripture-teaches" practices) to grow the church.

Again, the change agents with their ardent followers are in a state of denial when it's been proven time and again that they're causing a lot of problems for the church, especially DIVISION, leaving some of its members torn and confused and discouraged.

Yes, I Corinthians 5 is not a distortion. But neither is I Corinthians 1:[/color]
[color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times][10] Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. [11] For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase (I Cor. 3:6,7).[/color]
[color=#000000" size="3" face="times]The change agents should just trust God to give "the increase" -- and not rely on the Community Church's Rick Warren's culture-driven methodology for "church growth."[/color]
Quote
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 9th, 2010, 1:01 am #6


Donne's comment CANNOT be misunderstood by DISCIPLES.[10] Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. [11] For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase (I Cor. 3:6,7).


People say that we cannot ALL SPEAK the same things: Paul showed how it can be done as he defines the synagogue in Romans 15 after silencing the hypocritic arts:

Rom. 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak,
.....and not to please ourselves.
Rom. 15:2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.
Rom. 15:3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written,
.....The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.
Rom. 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning,
.....that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures
..... might have hope.
Rom. 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you
.....to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
Rom. 15:6 That ye may with ONE MIND and ONE MOUTH glorify God,

Stoma the mouth as the organ of speech, deka men glssai,
That is the OPPOSITE of many mouths or tongues (glossai) of wind instruments. That's why when songs BEGAN to be sung post 1500 they were rewritten PSALMS (only) sung with ONE MOUTH or UNISON.

,
..... even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom. 15:7 Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.


Remember that MANY are called but only a FEW are chosen: Few is tiny, puny, diminishingly-small. Chosen means as "I have been CHOSEN to be on the team." That means I have been TESTED to the limit.

So, don't worry: if you cannot read that ABSOLUTE and perfectly clear definition of what we do as DISCIPLES in the SCHOOL of Christ they you are not SUPPOSED to ever get it: you are not OF FAITH or OF TRUTH.

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 13th, 2010, 8:09 am #7

http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/5-13.htm

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.



=====================================

UPDATE: 11/13/2010

This is truly an excellent title that speaks volumes about a group of agents in the church -- how to deal with a JOKER: change agent at your local church. It is certainly an attention-getter.

There has been a bit of confusion as to who the change agents really are; how to identify these individuals and associate them with their destructive and damaging activities in the church. Some of their ardent supporters and disciples even go so far in asserting that Jesus Christ himself was the greatest change agent of all or that the great men of the Restoration Movement were change agents during their time and, therefore, can be equated to the "change agents" of the last few decades.

We need to rectify that misconception.

We'll be constantly updating and adding messages to this thread -- which will be ongoing for a while -- so as to continually provide information regarding the change agents operating in the brotherhood. We will be discussing the following from:

  • Simplified Process of Transitioning an Established Church
    </li>
  • Another Method: How to Transition an Established Church
    </li>
  • Prominent Change Agents in the Church of Christ -- Their Unique Behavior Pattern
    </li>
  • What Are Change Agents?
    </li>
  • Who Are Change Agents?
    </li>
  • What Are Some Characteristics of "Change Agents" (As They Attempt to Present Themselves As Theologians Who Have Discovered New Truths)?
    </li>
  • Change Agents Operate on Faulty Assumptions: John Waddey Avers
    </li>
  • Change Agents Are Committed to Change the Church of Christ
    </li>
  • Evaluation of the Change Package Implemented in the Transitioning Church of Christ
    </li>
  • Agents Advocating Change: Their Objectives and Activities
    </li>
  • Criticism for Efforts of the Past: Exaggerated and Encouraged
    </li>
  • Community Church: Model for Church of Christ in Transition
    </li>
  • Modernize the Church: The Secular- or Culture-Driven Approach
    </li>
  • Bible Translation & Other Sources: New Testament Principles Devalued
    </li>
  • Church Leadership, Organization, Government: Experimentation
    </li>
  • Worship: The Trending "Musical" Worship Content and Casualness
    </li>
  • The Lord's Supper and Social Fellowship -- More Than Just a Memorial
    </li>
  • Doctrines Derived from Denominations: Biblical Truth Being Perverted
    </li>
  • Holy Spirit and Spiritual Gifts: Teachings Imitated by the Change Agents</li>
[color=#0000FF" size="4]PROMINENT CHANGE AGENTS IN THE CHURCH OF CHRIST -- THEIR UNIQUE BEHAVIOR PATTERN[/color]


WHAT ARE CHANGE AGENTS?
What is a "closet change agent"? When asked this question, John Waddey responded as follows: "A change agent is a false teacher within the brotherhood of Churches of Christ who is not content to follow the faith and practice of Christianity as set forth in the pages of the New Testament. He or she therefore works to convince our brethren that they should adopt changes in their faith, worship and practice that will be more acceptable to the world of the 21st century. The adjective 'closet' means they operate undercover, or covertly to accomplish their evil purposes."

Kenneth Sublett has stated in a recent post, "End Time Serpents with Horns": "We have NOTED SEVERAL times that the band of CHANGE AGENTS all WRITE (Scribes) and they all endorse and sell one another's books. Even events such as the recent "Look to the Hills" are the prophetic TRAFFICKING. This fulfills the first century and the present Satan sending out a FLOOD of waters trying to wash the Word and Church off the earth. [Many] churches are involved in the same thing on a lesser scale: sending out sermonic renderings and new style a cappella praise music to SEDATE. These are Apollo's LOCUSTS whichever wing they fly on."

Sublett states further: "There is now a FLOOD of new books. It suggests that the Accusers of the Church are in a TRAFFICKING pattern to make money and ACCUSE the brethren who pay their UNLAWFUL wages. It works, as Paul might say, 'because fools love to be fooled.' . . . Purpose-driven CHANGE AGENTS believe that they have the right to lie, cheat, steal, threaten and use the law to steal the church property."
WHO ARE CHANGE AGENTS?
John Waddey states: "The most prominent of our self-appointed 'agents of change' is Bro. RUBEL SHELLY of Nashville, TN." MAX LUCADO of the Oak Hills Church (formerly Oak Hills Church of Christ) is one of the prominent CHANGE AGENTS in the church today. His website describes him in "UpWords" (his teaching ministry) as a prolific writer "with more than 28 million books in print." Other influential leaders of the change movement are Joe Beam, Lynn Anderson, Jeff Walling, Mike Cope, Terry Rush, and Marvin Phillips. There are others.

Waddey cites examples of who they are in his article "Little Men":

  • Men who do harm to the body of Christ while being supported to build it up.
    </li>
  • Men who claim to be helping the church while fomenting chaos and strife within.
    </li>
  • Men who rush forward to offer a fix for the problems they themselves have created. They offer staff services to help churches resolve the conflicts caused by their changes.
    </li>
  • Men who seek to build their status and influence by bashing and attempting to discredit the godly preachers who blazed the trail before them and built the congregations where they now serve.
    </li>
  • Men whose teaching and practice lowers respect for the authority of God's Word.
    </li>
  • Men who refuse to recognize and honor the church of Christ as the body of Christ.
    </li>
  • Men who think they know more about how to worship God than did Christ . . .
    </li>
  • Men who undertake to change the unchangeable kingdom of Christ.
    </li>
  • Men who presume that the new is better than the old in the realm of faith. They care nothing for the old paths (Jer. 6:16). They are like the pagan Athenians, always searching for something new or different.
    </li>
  • Men who'd rather not speak boldly of Christ as the "founder" of the church of Christ.
    </li>
  • Men who prefer to speak of Campbell and Stone as founders of their denomination.
    </li>
  • Men whose favorite word is "grace" to mean salvation without obeying its conditions.
    </li>
  • Men who love to speak of "freedom" to ignore Bible teachings on worship restrictions.
    </li>
  • Men who love freedom to fellowship and be accepted by denominational bodies.
    </li>
  • Men who speak of "patternism" as a sarcastic put down of the brethren true to God's pattern.
    </li>
  • Men who thirst for an emotion-based worship in the electronic churches of the televangelists.</li>
Quote
Like
Share

AM
AM

November 13th, 2010, 3:50 pm #8

Donnie,
This is excellent! It state exactly the things I have observed in a very concise manner. This message that you have compiled is going to be helpful in conversations.

Thank you for your research and to the men that contributed their thoughts and comments.
Quote
Share

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 13th, 2010, 5:54 pm #9

AM, thanks for presenting to us your own observations. You've been contributing to the discussion greatly. We value your input and participation, and we urge you to continue to defend the truth.
Quote
Like
Share

Sonny
Sonny

November 13th, 2010, 6:12 pm #10

[color=#0000FF" size="4]PROMINENT CHANGE AGENTS IN THE CHURCH OF CHRIST -- THEIR UNIQUE BEHAVIOR PATTERN[/color]


WHAT ARE CHANGE AGENTS?
What is a "closet change agent"? When asked this question, John Waddey responded as follows: "A change agent is a false teacher within the brotherhood of Churches of Christ who is not content to follow the faith and practice of Christianity as set forth in the pages of the New Testament. He or she therefore works to convince our brethren that they should adopt changes in their faith, worship and practice that will be more acceptable to the world of the 21st century. The adjective 'closet' means they operate undercover, or covertly to accomplish their evil purposes."

Kenneth Sublett has stated in a recent post, "End Time Serpents with Horns": "We have NOTED SEVERAL times that the band of CHANGE AGENTS all WRITE (Scribes) and they all endorse and sell one another's books. Even events such as the recent "Look to the Hills" are the prophetic TRAFFICKING. This fulfills the first century and the present Satan sending out a FLOOD of waters trying to wash the Word and Church off the earth. [Many] churches are involved in the same thing on a lesser scale: sending out sermonic renderings and new style a cappella praise music to SEDATE. These are Apollo's LOCUSTS whichever wing they fly on."

Sublett states further: "There is now a FLOOD of new books. It suggests that the Accusers of the Church are in a TRAFFICKING pattern to make money and ACCUSE the brethren who pay their UNLAWFUL wages. It works, as Paul might say, 'because fools love to be fooled.' . . . Purpose-driven CHANGE AGENTS believe that they have the right to lie, cheat, steal, threaten and use the law to steal the church property."
WHO ARE CHANGE AGENTS?
John Waddey states: "The most prominent of our self-appointed 'agents of change' is Bro. RUBEL SHELLY of Nashville, TN." MAX LUCADO of the Oak Hills Church (formerly Oak Hills Church of Christ) is one of the prominent CHANGE AGENTS in the church today. His website describes him in "UpWords" (his teaching ministry) as a prolific writer "with more than 28 million books in print." Other influential leaders of the change movement are Joe Beam, Lynn Anderson, Jeff Walling, Mike Cope, Terry Rush, and Marvin Phillips. There are others.

Waddey cites examples of who they are in his article "Little Men":

  • Men who do harm to the body of Christ while being supported to build it up.
    </li>
  • Men who claim to be helping the church while fomenting chaos and strife within.
    </li>
  • Men who rush forward to offer a fix for the problems they themselves have created. They offer staff services to help churches resolve the conflicts caused by their changes.
    </li>
  • Men who seek to build their status and influence by bashing and attempting to discredit the godly preachers who blazed the trail before them and built the congregations where they now serve.
    </li>
  • Men whose teaching and practice lowers respect for the authority of God's Word.
    </li>
  • Men who refuse to recognize and honor the church of Christ as the body of Christ.
    </li>
  • Men who think they know more about how to worship God than did Christ . . .
    </li>
  • Men who undertake to change the unchangeable kingdom of Christ.
    </li>
  • Men who presume that the new is better than the old in the realm of faith. They care nothing for the old paths (Jer. 6:16). They are like the pagan Athenians, always searching for something new or different.
    </li>
  • Men who'd rather not speak boldly of Christ as the "founder" of the church of Christ.
    </li>
  • Men who prefer to speak of Campbell and Stone as founders of their denomination.
    </li>
  • Men whose favorite word is "grace" to mean salvation without obeying its conditions.
    </li>
  • Men who love to speak of "freedom" to ignore Bible teachings on worship restrictions.
    </li>
  • Men who love freedom to fellowship and be accepted by denominational bodies.
    </li>
  • Men who speak of "patternism" as a sarcastic put down of the brethren true to God's pattern.
    </li>
  • Men who thirst for an emotion-based worship in the electronic churches of the televangelists.</li>
Still using John Waddey?
Quote
Share