Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

December 6th, 2010, 7:43 am #21

For further discussion, this post has been copied from this thread:
         "Venting Machine: Anger Emission Control."

Author: Sonny (no login) 99.186.93.107
Post: "Re: The Bottom Line" December 3 2010, 7:38 PM


===============================

Brother Fred,

Are you implying that we are actually allowed to study the Bible for ourself and think for ourself and not be under the tyranny of what others say it all means? Does this mean that neither Sonny nor Brother Waddey, Crump, Sublett and Cruz should mandate what every Christian believe and do as much as encouraging people to read, study, dig, ask questions, dialogue with others, have convictions, yet continue to be humble and willing to reassess your views and willing to listen and respect the perspective of others?

Why do you think Nicodemus struggled to be born again? It would require humility and admitting he had been wrong as a self-righteous Pharisee.

I know. I am a recovering legalist who had it all figured out and there was no grace for doctrinal error even if unintentional and no grace for lifestyle mistakes. Jesus saves us from our sin at baptism but then we have no avenue to confess and be forgiven (1 John 1:9) after baptism. I saw repentance as a one time event and confession and missed that we must continue to work out our salvation with fear and trembling and that no matter how much we try and how pure our heart that we fall short of God's glory every single day. Praise God for those who have loved me out of my zealous ignorance.

Now, Brother Fred. I ultimately agree with you and your convictions and admire your passion and fire for truth and focus on grace. However, I am going to humbly and gently ask you to be a little less forceful in some of your statements (not talking about this post but some previous ones). No one will be led closer to Christ and truth if they think we are more combative than caring, and understand I am not suggesting you are uncaring but it may occasionally come across that way. Love you bro.

-Sonny
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

December 6th, 2010, 7:57 am #22

For further discussion, this post has been copied from this thread:
        "Venting Machine: Anger Emission Control."

Author: Fred Whaley (no login) 173.162.22.85
Post: "The Bottom Line" December 3 2010, 2:30 PM


===============================

Isaiah 64:6 states that all our righteousness is filthy rags. Romans 3:10 says no one is righteous. This includes Fred Dave Doctor Crump and D.C. (Donnie Cruz). The only difference is that Fred and Dave realize they are sinners saved by Jesus' blood and grace whether they use instruments or not. Both instrumental and non-instrumental worshippers will be saved by Jesus' blood and grace and not because of self-righteousness. 1 Corinthians 1:30 says Jesus is our wisdom righteousness holiness and redemption. 1:31 says let him who boasts boast in the Lord. Fred and Dave do not feel superior as acappella worshippers in the Church of Christ to instrumental worshippers in other churches. We also do not feel superior to other Christians within the Church of Christ because they also have a brain and also use their brain and have a different view on a spiritual matter. Fred and Dave believe in paying more attention to the camel than the gnat.

Fred Whaley

"If you are in the parking lot and have still not quit arguing with the people on the porch, you haven't left the Church of Christ yet."
For further discussion, this post has been copied from this thread:
         "Venting Machine: Anger Emission Control."

Author: Donnie (Login Donnie.Cruz) 170.141.177.53
Post: "God's Grace Is Not Equal to Musical Noise" December 3 2010, 4:27 PM


===============================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Brother Fred,

You have become an expert on associating God's grace, the blood of the Lamb and man's righteousness, even the feeling of superiority (or a lack thereof) with, of all controversial issues, instrumental music.

There is no controversy in the wonderful grace of God until a professed Christian misuses and abuses it. There is no controversy in the blood of the Redeemer until a theologian teaches that one outside of Christ receives redemption in His blood and is added to the church outside of belief, repentance and putting on Christ in baptism.

The operation of mechanical music in the assembly of saints is a controversial issue as there is/has been no directive from God in the entire Bible (including both Old and New Testaments) that He is to be worshipped with the noise of inanimate, lifeless musical objects [the musician's toys]. On the contrary, throughout history, man has wanted and desired for such form of idolatry -- musical idolatry -- by (including) both "certain men of God" [David, king of Israel and musician, but not any of Christ's apostles] and the pagans [Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon].

Feel free to discuss this IM issue at this link:[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

December 6th, 2010, 8:04 am #23

For further discussion, this post has been copied from this thread:
         "Venting Machine: Anger Emission Control."

Author: Fred Whaley (no login) 173.162.22.85
Post: Fred is Fighting for Respect for The Word of God and NOT Teachings of Men
December 3 2010, 5:33 PM


===============================

D.C. what makes one sin or form of idolatry different from another? I guess what I am thinking and asking is what makes one sin unforgiveable? As you can see by now I do not believe instrumental worship is sin or idolatry but if it is why can it not be forgiven but greed materialism Phariseeism legalism gossip adultery lying stealing and many many more sins all can be? How you equate worshipping God to being WORSE than these is perplexing. I guess that theology and soteriology works for you but it does not for me. And just because the music issue is controversial does not make it wrong. I am going to use "the Jesus approach" on you by asking questions and letting you answer and hopefully you will come to the truth by my wise approach. I have seven questions I want you to speak on and let me and everyone else reading this know what your position is concerning truth and grace and I think you will begin to see my side and we can be brothers. I have almost given up on me and Doctor Crump ever being buds. He does not like me holding him accountable and refuses to humble himself but I have not given up yet.

#1) Is a teenager (someone's grandchild) who has been baptized and is trying to live by the Bible not a Christian if they ever go to a Christian instrumental Gaither concert? (Especially if they do not think it is a sin and are wholeheartedly trying to live by the Bible and not intentionally defying something in their understanding of God and His Word.)

#2) What about an adult? (Meaning is there a difference based on age and what is that difference if there is one and why?)

#3) Is it just as wrong (or worse) to be at Winterfest or a Gaither concert as to be at a Rock Concert or at a party where people are drinking beer and getting drunk?

#4) Can a Christian (baptized believer) be forgiven for ever getting drunk or lying?

#5) Can a Christian be forgiven for worshipping God with an instrument? (Since you call it idolatry.)

#6) Can a Christian be forgiven for forsaking the assembly for one or more Sundays? (I assume you agree with Hebrews 10:25.)

#7) Is it better to be at an assembly where you disagree with part of the worship (even if it is one where all worship is without instruments but you think they should be or vice versa) or just the same to go somewhere where you might disagree with something as to not go anywhere?

D.C. please answer all 7 by identifying using our wonderful number system. If you need a few days or weeks on this there is no rush as I know I have mentioned a lot of questions for us to debate. AND if you would also like to keep this message on this forum but place at the bottom that the message is also appearing in that other forum along with you future reply as to not continue this under the venting forum as you were suggesting that is fine. But I would like for this message to STILL APPEAR HERE so readers can see my response to you now at this time.

Fred Whaley

"If you are in the parking lot and have still not quit arguing with the people on the porch, you haven't left the Church of Christ yet."
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

December 6th, 2010, 10:01 pm #24

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]While the Scripture is explicit about idolatry in the form of worship of graven images of our God or of the other gods, the Scripture also contains references, inferences or implications concerning other forms of idolatry. Scripture mentions worship of the sun, moon, and stars which, to man throughout history and civilizations, are the supposed powers of nature (God's creation); thus, nature worship among the heathens -- another form of idolatry. Fetishism, as related to the worship of trees, rivers, hills, stones, etc. (God's creation), is another form of idolatry. The love of money, the root of all evil, is another form of idolatry.

When New Testament saints are no longer satisfied with "SPEAKING to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord" (Eph. 5:19); experience the inanimate, lifeless "Musical Instrument Dependency Syndrome" (M.I.D.S.) to assist in the teaching and admonishing ONE ANOTHER in songs (Col. 3:16); put more emphasis on the concert-like, entertaining musical content rather than letting "the word of Christ dwell in you richly" (Col. 3:16) -- that certainly is another form of idolatry: musical idolatry.

What matters not is what you believe regarding musical worship. Yeah, right, it didn't matter to David, king of Israel and a skilled MUSICIAN, who (not God) invented and ordained musical instruments. King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon did the same thing and used the dulcimer and sackbut and other musical devices in worship of the golden image. But God has NEVER directed His followers to worship Him with mechanical music. You will not find such a directive in either the Old Testament or the New Testament. It certainly is a man-made (by either a "man of God" or pagan) concoction. Yes, from God's standpoint in the O.T., instruments were used in warfare, in journey, in a gathering call to worship [they didn't have the internet, etc., then].

As far as sins are concerned, I don't believe it was necessary for the Holy Scripture to list all the sins of the world. Man cannot redeem himself from sins -- let's leave the forgiveness of sins to God and the redeeming blood of our Savior. Man should not speculate as to what or when sins are forgiven.

I agree: let's use "the Jesus approach" to settling YOUR issue with "what the Scripture does NOT say 'NOT TO" and, therefore, it is authorized." I do not have an issue with what Jesus said about worshiping the Father in spirit and in truth -- it is that simple. But you do have an issue when you begin to speculate, opine, and make an executive decision with regard to using musical objects and devices in the assembly. How much else did Jesus have to say regarding worship?


ANSWERS to your QUESTIONS:

#1). A teenager who has put on Christ in baptism has received forgiveness of his past sins in the blood of Christ became a Christian and a member of the body of Christ. He remains a Christian so long as he remains faithful. It is not Fred Whaley, but the Scripture warns: "lean not unto thine own understanding." Going to a "Christian instrumental Gaither concert" is one thing [as in going to watch a religious movie]; but going to "concert" to "worship" is another. Fred, do you wish you were a teenager so you could go to a concert at the Gaither Worship Center?

#2). Oops, cf. answer #1.

#3). Winterfest or a Gaither concert or a Rock concert -- they're all essentially similar. Religious or not, it's about entertainment and having fun. I would have no problem with Winterfest when a specific period is devoted to worship without the musical idolatry, when there is teaching of the unadulterated gospel of Christ. (Go to Jeff Walling's congregation's website concerning instrumental music, even in gatherings where Walling is the leader -- he is in opposition to the website's statement regarding this matter. His "indoctrination" is something to watch and guard against.)

#4). Yes, if he repents and confesses.

#5). Yes, if he repents and confesses. The mis-LEADER ought to do the same.

#6). Yes, if he repents and confesses.

#7). Worship is an individual matter whether privately or in an assembly. Also, part of my response is a question for you: (a) Is it better to incorporate instrumental music where there isn't in an assembly, or (b) Is it better to confiscate all the musical instruments already being used in the assembly to make it non-instrumental?[/color]
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Sonny
Sonny

December 6th, 2010, 11:54 pm #25

I applaud you Brother Fred for your effort to dialogue and have iron sharpen iron.

Brother Cruz,

1. Would you say that missing all Sunday evening services is a sin? (If so, approximately 50% of all (inc. most conservative churches) in C of C are outside of God's grace right there because they only go on Sunday morning's and Wednesday's.)

2. Do you believe if one commits sexual immorality that their confession and repentance should be public? (I have heard different perspectives on this one.)

-Sonny
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

December 8th, 2010, 6:28 am #26

1. So specific about "missing all Sunday evening services," huh? Well, when I was a "legalist" [ -- just kidding].... No, it is not a sin, especially if the designated hour for gathering is to sing rah-rah-rah "praise music." Many folks, especially the youth, are deluded by the notion that there is no praise without singing and rhythmic handclapping. The Christian ought to do more praising in private prayer than in a gathering. (I'd be interested in knowing about the origin of "Sunday evening services.") Fellowship with other followers of Christ is a good practice; they all can agree on a convenient time and location. God's family is the church or school of the Bible.

2. Scripture does not isolate sexual immorality from other types of sins. There are chapters that list sins. "Confession" is not that frequently mentioned in Scripture, but note the following:
"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." (James 5:16)

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (I John 1:9)
If a sin is public knowledge, then, confession and repentance should be public. Both passages are in that context (be public) as in the case of the sin of envying, strife, defiling tongue, adultery, etc., we find the following expressions: "brethren ... my brethren ... ye [plural] ... yourselves ... one against another ... one for another."
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 4th, 2011, 9:14 am #27

http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/5-13.htm

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.



=====================================

UPDATE: 11/13/2010

This is truly an excellent title that speaks volumes about a group of agents in the church -- how to deal with a JOKER: change agent at your local church. It is certainly an attention-getter.

There has been a bit of confusion as to who the change agents really are; how to identify these individuals and associate them with their destructive and damaging activities in the church. Some of their ardent supporters and disciples even go so far in asserting that Jesus Christ himself was the greatest change agent of all or that the great men of the Restoration Movement were change agents during their time and, therefore, can be equated to the "change agents" of the last few decades.

We need to rectify that misconception.

We'll be constantly updating and adding messages to this thread -- which will be ongoing for a while -- so as to continually provide information regarding the change agents operating in the brotherhood. We will be discussing the following from:

  • Simplified Process of Transitioning an Established Church
    </li>
  • Another Method: How to Transition an Established Church
    </li>
  • Prominent Change Agents in the Church of Christ -- Their Unique Behavior Pattern
    </li>
  • What Are Change Agents?
    </li>
  • Who Are Change Agents?
    </li>
  • What Are Some Characteristics of "Change Agents" (As They Attempt to Present Themselves As Theologians Who Have Discovered New Truths)?
    </li>
  • Change Agents Operate on Faulty Assumptions: John Waddey Avers
    </li>
  • Change Agents Are Committed to Change the Church of Christ
    </li>
  • Evaluation of the Change Package Implemented in the Transitioning Church of Christ
    </li>
  • Agents Advocating Change: Their Objectives and Activities
    </li>
  • Criticism for Efforts of the Past: Exaggerated and Encouraged
    </li>
  • Community Church: Model for Church of Christ in Transition
    </li>
  • Modernize the Church: The Secular- or Culture-Driven Approach
    </li>
  • Bible Translation & Other Sources: New Testament Principles Devalued
    </li>
  • Church Leadership, Organization, Government: Experimentation
    </li>
  • Worship: The Trending "Musical" Worship Content and Casualness
    </li>
  • The Lord's Supper and Social Fellowship -- More Than Just a Memorial
    </li>
  • Doctrines Derived from Denominations: Biblical Truth Being Perverted
    </li>
  • Holy Spirit and Spiritual Gifts: Teachings Imitated by the Change Agents</li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Below is a compilation of information taken from various sources, including articles and books written by gospel preachers and teachers in mainline/mainstream churches of Christ: Alan E. Highers, Wayne Jackson, John Waddey, Gary McDade, Jimmy Ferguson, Mike Hixson, Winford Claiborne, William Woodson, David Sain, Dan Winkler, David R. Pharr, et al.

The compiled information will reveal characteristics and activities of change agents infiltrating, subverting the truth, fostering schism and potentially acquiring your congregation. The purpose here is to have a means by which a congregation being subjected to a well-planned "transition" or "transformation" program of/by these agents may be evaluated.

Of course, the overall effect of the Community Church scheme for church growth varies among its victims. For example, an "infected" church may adopt only a small segment from the lists. But that segment may pinpoint or isolate the factors that have caused that particular church to grow or dwindle.

So, if your congregation has been subjected to the change agents' scheme, would you be able to identify or determine from the lists where your congregation stands on particular conflicts and issues?

The following topics are for your consideration (with a list of items under each topic):[/color]

A. AGENTS ADVOCATING CHANGE: THEIR OBJECTIVES AND ACTIVITIES
B. CRITICISM FOR EFFORTS OF THE PAST: EXAGGERATED AND ENCOURAGED
C. COMMUNITY CHURCH: MODEL FOR CHURCH OF CHRIST IN TRANSITION
D. MODERNIZING THE CHURCH: THE SECULAR- OR CULTURE-DRIVEN APPROACH
E. BIBLE TRANSLATION & OTHER SOURCES: NEW TESTAMENT PRINCIPLES DEVALUED
F. CHURCH LEADERSHIP, ORGANIZATION, GOVERNMENT: EXPERIMENTATION
G. WORSHIP: THE TRENDING "MUSICAL" WORSHIP CONTENT AND CASUALNESS
H. THE LORD'S SUPPER AND SOCIAL FELLOWSHIP -- MORE THAN JUST A MEMORIAL
I. DOCTRINES DERIVED FROM DENOMINATIONS: BIBLICAL TRUTH BEING PERVERTED



A. AGENTS ADVOCATING CHANGE: THEIR OBJECTIVES AND ACTIVITIES

<ol>[*]Agents of change are busy rewriting our church history to: . . .
  • Paint a different picture of the goals and intentions of our forefathers and
    </li>
  • Wish to cast their efforts as a "unity movement" and
    </li>
  • Depict them as seeking fellowship with and not rejecting denominationalism
    </li>
</li>[*]Prominent change agents are invited by churches and schools as guest speakers: Rubel Shelly, Max Lucado, Lynn Anderson, Jeff Walling, Joe Beam, et al.
</li>[*]Interlopers must be resolved not to leave; others against change must leave
</li>[*]Interlopers are not obligated to start their own from scratch
</li>[*]Young people are the future of the church; their needs must be met with urgency
</li>[*]Homebuilders (parents in their 30's & 40's) are the key to a successful program
</li>[*]Transition is a long-range mission accomplished after passing of older generation
</li>[*]Their goal is conquest and dominance of the entire brotherhood
</li>[*]Their scheme is to first transform large congregations
</li>[*]They (change agents) insure that buildings, facilities and property are not acquired until fully paid
</li>[*]They insure that the subverted will not overthrow their schemes and plans
</li>[*]They are never to admit being false teachers so as not to be rejected
</li>[*]They resort to warning the non-accepting brethren to "get over it"
</li>[*]They claim to be helping the church to disguise their fomented chaos and strife
</li>[*]They rush forward to offer a fix to disguise problems they have created
</li>[*]They send a team to resolve conflicts caused by their changes
</li>[*]They advocate that leading and guidance emanate from the Holy Spirit
</li>[*]They label the unwilling to submit as narrow, bigoted, legalistic and Pharisaical
</li>[*]They label the unwilling to submit as "traditionalists" and them as "progressives"
</li>[*]They accuse the unwilling to submit as claiming to be the perfect church
</li>[*]They claim to have found the true nature of the church
</li>[*]They abandon the concept of restoring the original New Testament church
</li>[*]They preach that the absence of a "thou shalt not" means a practice is condoned
</li>[*]They sever ties with our predecessors as much as possible; discredit their efforts
</li>[*]They label the unwilling to submit as the ones inconsiderate and without love
</li>[*]They emphasize "fellowshipping" [among the sects]; "brotherhood" is exclusive
</li>[*]They share fellowship with denominational preachers, churches and events
</li>[*]They do not refer to "the Lord's church"--that is being exclusive of others
</li>[*]They do not refer to the church as the kingdom and also to the reign of Christ
</li>[*]They refer to the church only as "our faith tradition" just as others have theirs
</li>[*]They define "freedom" as a way to ignore Bible teachings on worship restrictions
</li>[*]They feel extended "brotherhood" should encompass the Christian Churches
</li>[*]They implement a market-driven program to provide what people want or seek
</li>[*]They divide an existing congregation so as to implement the "community" model
</li>[*]They have less contact and fellowship with mainline churches of Christ</li>[/list]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 5th, 2011, 9:01 am #28

http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/5-13.htm

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.



=====================================

UPDATE: 11/13/2010

This is truly an excellent title that speaks volumes about a group of agents in the church -- how to deal with a JOKER: change agent at your local church. It is certainly an attention-getter.

There has been a bit of confusion as to who the change agents really are; how to identify these individuals and associate them with their destructive and damaging activities in the church. Some of their ardent supporters and disciples even go so far in asserting that Jesus Christ himself was the greatest change agent of all or that the great men of the Restoration Movement were change agents during their time and, therefore, can be equated to the "change agents" of the last few decades.

We need to rectify that misconception.

We'll be constantly updating and adding messages to this thread -- which will be ongoing for a while -- so as to continually provide information regarding the change agents operating in the brotherhood. We will be discussing the following from:

  • Simplified Process of Transitioning an Established Church
    </li>
  • Another Method: How to Transition an Established Church
    </li>
  • Prominent Change Agents in the Church of Christ -- Their Unique Behavior Pattern
    </li>
  • What Are Change Agents?
    </li>
  • Who Are Change Agents?
    </li>
  • What Are Some Characteristics of "Change Agents" (As They Attempt to Present Themselves As Theologians Who Have Discovered New Truths)?
    </li>
  • Change Agents Operate on Faulty Assumptions: John Waddey Avers
    </li>
  • Change Agents Are Committed to Change the Church of Christ
    </li>
  • Evaluation of the Change Package Implemented in the Transitioning Church of Christ
    </li>
  • Agents Advocating Change: Their Objectives and Activities
    </li>
  • Criticism for Efforts of the Past: Exaggerated and Encouraged
    </li>
  • Community Church: Model for Church of Christ in Transition
    </li>
  • Modernize the Church: The Secular- or Culture-Driven Approach
    </li>
  • Bible Translation & Other Sources: New Testament Principles Devalued
    </li>
  • Church Leadership, Organization, Government: Experimentation
    </li>
  • Worship: The Trending "Musical" Worship Content and Casualness
    </li>
  • The Lord's Supper and Social Fellowship -- More Than Just a Memorial
    </li>
  • Doctrines Derived from Denominations: Biblical Truth Being Perverted
    </li>
  • Holy Spirit and Spiritual Gifts: Teachings Imitated by the Change Agents</li>
B. CRITICISM FOR EFFORTS OF THE PAST: EXAGGERATED AND ENCOURAGED

<ol>[*]A superior way of "doing church" has been discovered
</li>[*]Those over 50 are stubborn, close-minded and impervious to change
</li>[*]The church of Christ of the Restoration Movement is just another denomination
</li>[*]Alexander Campbell and Barton Stone founded the "Church of Christ"
</li>[*]The church of Christ is a real, bona fide, but pitiful denomination
</li>[*]The church of Christ is the poorest of the evangelical denominations
</li>[*]Ties with those noble saints who went before us are severed
</li>[*]The faith and preaching of predecessors are incompatible with those of change
</li>[*]Men of Restoration were imperfect men and often taught erroneously

</li>[/list]C. COMMUNITY CHURCH: MODEL FOR CHURCH OF CHRIST IN TRANSITION

<ol>[*]Dismiss or discredit the biblical name "church of Christ"
</li>[*]Despise and ridicule Christ's church and make it irrelevant
</li>[*]De-emphasize the glory and honor to Christ, the head and founder
</li>[*]The name "church of Christ" is offensive to denominational groups
</li>[*]Crave acceptance with neighbors of the evangelical churches
</li>[*]Do not want to bear the stigma of being exclusive from the denominations
</li>[*]Mask from the community any affiliation with other churches of Christ
</li>[*]Choose the model of being a "non-denominational" community church
</li>[*]Prefer to identify with other groups rather than with your own brethren
</li>[*]One motive is to place little or no emphasis on doctrinal loyalty
</li>[*]Open to exchange, substitute or employ ministers from other denominations
</li>[*]Allow acceptance of denominational churches as in good standing with God
</li>[*]Encourage fellowship with denominational bodies
</li>[*]The trend or direction is away from New Testament Christianity
</li>[*]Transform congregations into charismatic, denominational churches
</li>[*]Accept the new status of the church of Christ as a denomination

</li>[/list]D. MODERNIZING THE CHURCH: THE SECULAR- OR CULTURE-DRIVEN APPROACH

<ol>[*]Celebrate Jesus' birthday, like it or not; observe the Christmas pagan holiday
</li>[*]Celebrate the "special" annual resurrection of Christ on Easter Sunday
</li>[*]Make Valentine's Day a church event--apart from but similar to a social event</li>[/list]
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Fred Whaley
Fred Whaley

January 5th, 2011, 2:30 pm #29

Uh oh...........my church has a Sweethearts Banquet every February for Valentine's Day. We might as well quit on this Christian thing because of all the hoops the Bible makes us jump through (according to the (mis)interpretations at this site).

Fred Whaley

"If you are in the parking lot and have still not quit arguing with the people on the porch, you haven't left the Church of Christ yet."
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

January 5th, 2011, 9:26 pm #30

Fred wrote: "Uh oh...[three dots are sufficient] my church has a Sweethearts Banquet every February for Valentine's Day."

As I recall, Valentine's Day is not a "holy day" mentioned in the New Testament. Therefore, churches that "celebrate" it are among those "modern" churches that prefer the secular-driven or culture-driven approach about which Donnie wrote.
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