Sonny's historical perspective

Sonny's historical perspective

AM
AM

November 10th, 2010, 4:14 pm #1

After reading the last post I cannot help but notice one major item missing from the comparison of the reform movement and the change agents. Money!
Rubel Shelly and the others have found ways to promote church and build a business. Unlike the reformation movement that were just faithful men looking for the paths of truth, the new group are nice men with the contribution in mind. I cannot help when I listen to Lucado and think he is not trying to sell books, or Atchley or any of the other men when they ask to pass the plate for the lord when really it is a method to increase payroll or bankroll a building project. Are we just immune to why Jesus Cleansed the temple?

Also I had a chance to Google Rubel Shelly , since he was first on the list. His latest sermon is the Evils of science. Does he not know science "is an enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions of this world (definition from dictionary) or in other words reality? Would that not best define what Christianity and the Bible are all about that is reality? Sure, as with any topic including science, the message can be abused. Could he not have done a lesson on the Evils of paid church employees (preachers or even the staff at churches)? I believe there have been several references to infidelity of ministers on this site which he could research,and note that they are the paid men of God. He could probably be more knowledgeable and is closer to that subject matter. I am not accusing him of infidelity and I will not suggest that about him.

I guess the list of change agents just pointed out strongly to me that these guys are all on a payroll that comes from a collection plate. And they all are trying to market to a group that wants to indulge their preference for worship,and in some cases, not worship the way Jesus did. Can we not discuss the real problem with churches, that we are being directed NOT by the spirit filled but being directed the career climbers? Which does not compare to the men of the reformation movement.
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Donnie
Donnie

November 10th, 2010, 5:22 pm #2

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Sonny gets credit for bringing up a "historical perspective" [his own] of the church as this will certainly lead us to further review, investigate and discuss the various movements affecting the church that Jesus Christ established in the first century: Charismatic Movement, Contemporary Christian Music Movement, Community Church Movement, Change Movement (in the church of Christ), etc.

Regrettably, however, in that "historical perspective," the reader would be misled by the list of "Central Figures in the Reform ... Movement." The reference to "reformation" in that era was inaccurate. The "central figures" mentioned weren't even born during the Reformation Movement (of the Roman Catholic Church) of the 1500s.

Sonny's altered information concerning the movement was not [about] the Reformation Movement. Rather, it was the Restoration Movement in America. (Notice that the men listed were already in the denominational churches that resulted from the Reformation Movement.) The restoration principle was not to restore Roman Catholicism, but rather to restore the church of the first century, the New Testament church, and New Testament Christianity.

So, we should look at it, as AM suggests, from the perspective of what the "change agents" of the last few decades have been doing and whose activities have damaged the church.[/color]
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Scotyy
Scotyy

November 11th, 2010, 3:27 am #3

After reading the last post I cannot help but notice one major item missing from the comparison of the reform movement and the change agents. Money!
Rubel Shelly and the others have found ways to promote church and build a business. Unlike the reformation movement that were just faithful men looking for the paths of truth, the new group are nice men with the contribution in mind. I cannot help when I listen to Lucado and think he is not trying to sell books, or Atchley or any of the other men when they ask to pass the plate for the lord when really it is a method to increase payroll or bankroll a building project. Are we just immune to why Jesus Cleansed the temple?

Also I had a chance to Google Rubel Shelly , since he was first on the list. His latest sermon is the Evils of science. Does he not know science "is an enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions of this world (definition from dictionary) or in other words reality? Would that not best define what Christianity and the Bible are all about that is reality? Sure, as with any topic including science, the message can be abused. Could he not have done a lesson on the Evils of paid church employees (preachers or even the staff at churches)? I believe there have been several references to infidelity of ministers on this site which he could research,and note that they are the paid men of God. He could probably be more knowledgeable and is closer to that subject matter. I am not accusing him of infidelity and I will not suggest that about him.

I guess the list of change agents just pointed out strongly to me that these guys are all on a payroll that comes from a collection plate. And they all are trying to market to a group that wants to indulge their preference for worship,and in some cases, not worship the way Jesus did. Can we not discuss the real problem with churches, that we are being directed NOT by the spirit filled but being directed the career climbers? Which does not compare to the men of the reformation movement.
Recently the moderator stated that slander would not be allowed. It seems that what was meant is that slander is allowed for those the moderator disagrees with and forbidden when about preachers he does agree with.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 11th, 2010, 3:50 am #4

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Where's the slander? What was forbidden or not allowed?[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 11th, 2010, 4:12 am #5

The most common RACA word is "thats just your tradition" or "that's our heritage."

Blackest of black lies.

Why do they tell those lies.

Well, Paul said in effect "Fools love to be fooled."

I have done a little housekeeping on My History of Instruments page.

If you can find ANYONE in church history who did not know that God condemned instruments as the MARK of those telling God to "shut your face."

http://www.piney.com/MuHistor.html

This is a rebuild of lists which have been collected: I have links to the actual scholars in many cases.

That's about as nitwitty as saying that "not doing naked dancing in worship" is just your tradition or heritage. What these evil end-time predicted people mean is that NOT bowing to Ball when the agents pipe is "a vile disease, more deadly than HIV that you caught from your godly parents."

Strong delusions means that they CANNOT read black text on white paper and the MARK is Lying Wonders which parses to Singing, clapping, pickin and grinnin CLAIMING to be doing it for God.
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Dave
Dave

November 11th, 2010, 2:15 pm #6

Recently the moderator stated that slander would not be allowed. It seems that what was meant is that slander is allowed for those the moderator disagrees with and forbidden when about preachers he does agree with.
Donnie, You asked Scotyy....."Where's the slander? What was forbidden or not allowed?"

You have GOT to be kidding, right???
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 11th, 2010, 6:09 pm #7

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]No, Dave, I was not kidding. Speak for yourself -- I await Scotty's response.[/color]
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

November 11th, 2010, 6:25 pm #8

All Scotty has to do is read several of Dave's posts to see quite a variety of slander, insults, smear tactics, and character assassinations. Mote and beam, Dave, mote and beam.
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Dave
Dave

November 11th, 2010, 6:49 pm #9

Just remember boys.....you can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all ofthe people all of the time.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 11th, 2010, 7:19 pm #10

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

The way you address posters in a condescending manner is a reflection of your "behavior gone wild." Would you like to be addressed as our "mother"?[/color]
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