Some Baptism Discussion

Some Baptism Discussion

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

October 1st, 2017, 5:15 am #1

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[color=#FF0000"]Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer (Romans 12:12, KJV)[/color]
[color=#0000FF"]ConcernedMembers[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

October 2nd, 2017, 3:16 am #2

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Word from Network54 Support: "Your ticket has been escalated to the next level engineer. Will update you when we have more findings."

The technical issue is that while your posts can be read by moderators, there is an approving process malfunction. Hopefully, your posts will be published soon.[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

October 21st, 2017, 7:37 pm #3

Rancor
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68.74.186.218

October 6 2017, 10:07 PM


I have been in the "back door" all day. The problem is related to cyber security issues, most likely from the Russians. More later!
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

October 21st, 2017, 7:39 pm #4

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Word from Network54 Support: "Your ticket has been escalated to the next level engineer. Will update you when we have more findings."

The technical issue is that while your posts can be read by moderators, there is an approving process malfunction. Hopefully, your posts will be published soon.[/color]
Rancor
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October 10 2017, 10:56 AM


Ken is out of control. Do the right thing.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 10th, 2017, 4:21 am #5

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Network54.com/Forum is currently experiencing "technical difficulty." Sorry.
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[color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times]Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer (Romans 12:12, KJV)[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]ConcernedMembers[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]But you need to know. To my knowledge, whatever technical problem it might be: that it has not been resolved. I'm sharing some of the comments I've come across for your information:
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[color=#000000" size="3" face="times]the UPGRADE was announced 8/29 and its been downhill from there since..... October 19 2017 at 10:21 AM

Still not fixed (Response to Error message while approving comments and messages) October 20 2017 at 11:41 AM

No available options (Response to Error message while approving comments and messages) Not even by email will Network54 reply our concerns with all these problems. September 28 2017 at 6:13 PM

Search function has been out for days - Personal photos can not be uploaded - Can not edit posts - I know Network54 usually runs its automated life perfectly, but we need someone to CHECK IN now and again to see if things are running smoothly. They are not. I've posted on the Premiere FORUM, here, and your Support e-mail. PLEASE help fix these problems glitches! Thank you!! September 27 2017 at 11:44 AM

same problem here ... is there a solution? September 25 2017 at 7:04 PM

Sme Problem Plus SEARCH has been down all afternoon ... Yes, same problem, plus I've been trying to use SEARCH all afternoon and evening - and it keeps showing the message that it is down and "to come back later." September 23 2017 at 4:38 PM

Same problem. Help September 23 2017 at 10:55 AM[/color]
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[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Trials and tribulations in life!!! [/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 18th, 2017, 7:57 pm #6

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Network54.com/Forum is currently experiencing "technical difficulty." Sorry.
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[color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times]Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer (Romans 12:12, KJV)[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]ConcernedMembers[/color]
Re: ConcernedMembers is not the only one....
November 18 2017, 2:35 PM

Question: "Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?"

Answer: As with any single verse or passage, we discern what it teaches through careful consideration of the language and context of the verse. We also filter it through what we know the Bible teaches elsewhere on the subject. In the case of baptism and salvation, the Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works of any kind, including baptism (Ephesians 2:8-9). So, any interpretation which comes to the conclusion that baptism, or any other act, is necessary for salvation is a faulty interpretation. For more information, please visit our webpage "Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?"

Regarding Mark 16:16, it is important to remember that there are some textual problems with Mark chapter 16, verses 9-20. There is some question as to whether these verses were originally part of the Gospel of Mark or whether they were added later by a scribe. As a result, it is best not to base a key doctrine on anything from Mark 16:9-20, such as snake handling, unless it is also supported by other passages of Scripture.

Assuming that verse 16 is original to Mark, does it teach that baptism is required for salvation? The short answer is, no, it does not. In order to make it teach that baptism is required for salvation, one must go beyond what the verse actually says. What this verse does teach is that belief is necessary for salvation, which is consistent with the countless verses where only belief is mentioned (e.g., John 3:18; John 5:24; John 12:44; John 20:31; 1 John 5:13).

“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned” (Mark 16:16). This verse is composed of two basic statements. 1—He who believes and is baptized will be saved. 2—He who does not believe will be condemned.

While this verse tells us something about believers who have been baptized (they are saved), it does not say anything about believers who have not been baptized. In order for this verse to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation, a third statement would be necessary, viz., “He who believes and is not baptized will be condemned” or “He who is not baptized will be condemned.” But, of course, neither of these statements is found in the verse.

Those who try to use Mark 16:16 to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation commit a common but serious mistake that is sometimes called the Negative Inference Fallacy. This is the rule to follow: “If a statement is true, we cannot assume that all negations (or opposites) of that statement are also true." For example, the statement “a dog with brown spots is an animal” is true; however, the negative, “if a dog does not have brown spots, it is not an animal” is false. In the same way, “he who believes and is baptized will be saved” is true; however, the statement “he who believes but is not baptized will not be saved” is an unwarranted assumption. Yet this is exactly the assumption made by those who support baptismal regeneration.

Consider this example: "Whoever believes and lives in Kansas will be saved, but those that do not believe are condemned." This statement is strictly true; Kansans who believe in Jesus will be saved. However, to say that only those believers who live in Kansas are saved is an illogical and false assumption. The statement does not say a believer must live in Kansas in order to go to heaven. Similarly, Mark 16:16 does not say a believer must be baptized. The verse states a fact about baptized believers (they will be saved), but it says exactly nothing about believers who have not been baptized. There may be believers who do not dwell in Kansas, yet they are still saved; and there may be believers who have not been baptized, yet they, too, are still saved.

The one specific condition required for salvation is stated in the second part of Mark 16:16: “Whoever does not believe will be condemned.” In essence, Jesus has given both the positive condition of belief (whoever believes will be saved) and the negative condition of unbelief (whoever does not believe will be condemned). Therefore, we can say with absolute certainty that belief is the requirement for salvation. More importantly, we see this condition restated positively and negatively throughout Scripture (John 3:16; John 3:18; John 3:36; John 5:24; John 6:53-54; John 8:24; Acts 16:31).

Jesus mentions a condition related to salvation (baptism) in Mark 16:16. But a related condition should not be confused with a requirement. For example, having a fever is related to being ill, but a fever is not required for illness to be present. Nowhere in the Bible do we find a statement such as “whoever is not baptized will be condemned.” Therefore, we cannot say that baptism is necessary for salvation based on Mark 16:16 or any other verse.

Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation? No, it does not. It clearly establishes that belief is required for salvation, but it does not prove or disprove the idea of baptism being a requirement. How can we know, then, if one must be baptized in order to be saved? We must look to the full counsel of God’s Word. Here is a summary of the evidence:

1—The Bible is clear that we are saved by faith alone. Abraham was saved by faith, and we are saved by faith (Romans 4:1-25; Galatians 3:6-22).

2—Throughout the Bible, in every dispensation, people have been saved without being baptized. Every believer in the Old Testament (e.g., Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon) was saved but not baptized. The thief on the cross was saved but not baptized. Cornelius was saved before he was baptized (Acts 10:44-46).

3—Baptism is a testimony of our faith and a public declaration that we believe in Jesus Christ. The Scriptures tell us that we have eternal life the moment we believe (John 5:24), and belief always comes before being baptized. Baptism does not save us any more than walking an aisle or saying a prayer saves us. We are saved when we believe.

4—The Bible never says that if one is not baptized then he is not saved.

5—If baptism were required for salvation, then no one could be saved without another party being present. Someone must be there to baptize a person before he can be saved. This effectively limits who can be saved and when he can be saved. The consequences of this doctrine, when carried to a logical conclusion, are devastating. For example, a soldier who believes on the battlefield but is killed before he can be baptized would go to hell.

6—Throughout the Bible we see that at the point of faith a believer possesses all the promises and blessings of salvation (John 1:12; 3:16; 5:24; 6:47; 20:31; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31). When one believes, he has eternal life, does not come under judgment, and has passed from death into life (John 5:24)—all before he or she is baptized.

If you believe in baptismal regeneration, you would do well to prayerfully consider whom or what you are really putting your trust in. Is your faith in a physical act (being baptized) or in the finished work of Christ on the cross? Whom or what are you trusting for salvation? Is it the shadow (baptism) or the substance (Jesus Christ)? Our faith must rest in Christ alone. “We have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace” (Ephesians 1:7).

Recommended Resource: Believer's Baptism: Sign of the New Covenant in Christ by Schriener and Wright
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

November 30th, 2017, 4:06 am #7

Rancor
(no login) 68.74.186.218
Message Title: SINGING
November 29 2017, 6:19 PM

====================================

Question: "What does it mean that God will rejoice over us with singing (Zephaniah 3:17)?"

Answer: Zephaniah 3:17 includes an interesting description of God singing over people: “The LORD your God is with you, he is mighty to save. He will take great delight in you, he will quiet you with his love, he will rejoice over you with singing.”

Two important observations regarding this passage: first, singing represents God’s joy. The Hebrew phrase translated “he will rejoice over you with singing” can also be translated literally as “he rejoices over you with a shout of joy.”

Second, God’s singing parallels the singing of His people in Jerusalem. “Sing aloud, O daughter of Zion!” (verse 14). This unit of poetry begins with the people of Jerusalem singing praise to God and ends with God singing over His people. God rejoices with His people, and He expresses joy when His people praise Him.

The question then is, why is God so joyful? This passage of Zephaniah speaks of a future time when God has ended His judgment upon Israel. All of their enemies have been destroyed, and Israel is entering a time of safety and blessing (verses 8, 15, 19). Zephaniah is speaking of the future millennial kingdom when the Messiah (Jesus) will reign with His people in Jerusalem (Isaiah 9:7; Revelation 20:1–6).

The word picture in Zephaniah 3:17 is full of emotion. God the Father is the One who holds His daughter Jerusalem and sings joyfully in her presence. Just as a loving parent cradles a child and sings out of love, so God’s song over His people is born of His great love. After a time of hardship, our loving Lord dries His people’s tears, comforts their hearts, and welcomes them to a new world.

Finally, Jesus also taught in the New Testament that “there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents” (Luke 15:10). Whether or not God Himself sings in this passage is not made clear, but it is clear there is rejoicing in God’s presence when those who are lost repent and are made right with God (Ephesians 2:8–9; John 3:16).

Recommended Resource: Nahum, Habakkuk, & Zephaniah, New International Commentary on the Old Testament by O. Palmer Robertson
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 30th, 2017, 5:05 pm #8

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Network54.com/Forum is currently experiencing "technical difficulty." Sorry.
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[color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times]Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer (Romans 12:12, KJV)[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]ConcernedMembers[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 30th, 2017, 9:51 pm #9

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Network54.com/Forum is currently experiencing "technical difficulty." Sorry.
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[color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times]Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer (Romans 12:12, KJV)[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]ConcernedMembers[/color]
Silas And Paul Sang
November 30 2017, 4:19 PM

Question: "What can we learn from the life of Silas?"

Answer: Silas was a leader in the early church, a fellow missionary with Paul, and a “faithful brother” (1 Peter 5:12). He was a Hellenistic Jew who, it seems, was also a Roman citizen (Acts 16:37). He is also referred to as “Silvanus” in Paul’s Epistles (e.g., 1 Thessalonians 1:1).

When we first meet Silas in Scripture, he is a leader and teacher in the Jerusalem church (Acts 15:22, 32). After the Jerusalem Council, Silas was chosen to help communicate the council’s decision to Antioch, along with the apostle Paul. Soon afterwards, Paul set out on his second missionary journey, and he chose Silas to accompany him (Acts 15:40-41).

On this journey, Paul and Silas traveled to Greece. In Philippi, the missionaries were arrested, beaten, and imprisoned. But “about midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them” (Acts 16:25). God then miraculously released them, and the jailer, having witnessed their faith, asked them, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” Paul and Silas answered, “Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved” (verses 30-31). The jailer was saved that night, and he and his family were all baptized. The next day, the city officials learned that Paul and Silas were Roman citizens, and they were immediately fearful; their mistreatment of Paul and Silas the day before had violated Roman law. The city leaders immediately released Paul and Silas from custody. The missionaries left town, but they left behind a body of believers—the first church in Europe.

The start of the Philippian church is a great reminder that, even in extremely difficult times, God can bring about great things. God will glorify His name, even through our trials and tribulations. Paul and Silas had this perspective, and that’s why they were able to sing at midnight.

The fact that the prisoners were “listening” to Paul and Silas singing hymns is not a detail to be skipped over lightly. As followers of Jesus Christ, we, too, have people watching how we react to life’s circumstances. If Paul and Silas had been griping or protesting or whining about the injustice of their situation, the jailer would have never been drawn to believe in the Lord Jesus. But they responded to their situation gracefully and with joy—their actions were completely foreign to how others expected them to react. Because they were “salt” and “light” (Matthew 5:13-14), others had their hearts opened to the gospel.

Later, Silas and Timothy ministered in Berea (Acts 17:14), and Silas spent extra time in Corinth, ministering after Paul left that city. Silas served with Peter as well; in fact, he is thought to have delivered the epistle of 1 Peter to its recipients (1 Peter 5:12).

Silas is a great example of someone who used his gifts to serve the Lord and others with all his heart. The apostles called him “faithful,” and he was known as one to “encourage and strengthen the brothers” (Acts 15:32). Multitudes in the early church were blessed by Silas, and Paul and Peter were heartened by his faithful companionship. Silas was “a brother . . . born for adversity” (Proverbs 17:17).

Recommended Resource: The Great Lives from God's Word Series by Chuck Swindoll
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

November 30th, 2017, 10:00 pm #10

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Network54.com/Forum is currently experiencing "technical difficulty." Sorry.
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[color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times]Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer (Romans 12:12, KJV)[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]ConcernedMembers[/color]
And so Paul PREACHED so that he had something to believe



<font face="arial" size="5">No one is called a BELIEVER who has not OBEYED what they have been taught.

Rom. 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

</font>
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