Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 15th, 2016, 3:12 am #11

Job speaks of the Creation and calls it a parable. Job also records maybe the oldest example of music as a FERTILITY RITE. When the praise singer as the world's oldest profession performed they believed and sold their services as mediators knowing how to handle the gods and get you a good deal--for a price.

Mark me, and be astonished, and lay your hand upon your mouth Job 21:5 .

Even when I remember I am afraid, and trembling taketh hold on my flesh. Job 21:6

Wherefore do the wicked live, become old, yea, are mighty in power? Job 21:7
Their seed is established in their sight with them,
and their offspring before their eyes. Job 21:8
Their houses are safe from fear, neither is the rod of God upon them. Job 21:9
Their bull gendereth, and faileth not; their cow calveth, and casteth not her calf. Job 21:10
They send forth their little ones like a flock, and their children dance. Job 21:11
They take the timbrel and harp, and rejoice at the sound of the organ. Job 21:12
They spend their days in wealth, and in a moment go down to the grave. Job 21:13

Therefore they say unto God,
Depart from us;
for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways. Job 21:14

What is the Almighty, that we should serve him?
and what profit should we have,
if we pray unto him? Job 21:15

Lo, their good is not in their hand:
the counsel of the wicked is far from me. Job 21:16
How oft is the candle of the wicked put out
and how oft cometh their destruction upon them!
God distributeth sorrows in his anger. Job 21:17
They are as stubble before the wind, </b>
and as <b>chaff
that the storm carrieth away. Job 21:18

Of the pipe which Jubal handles meaning without authority:

"It (the pipe meaning to love passionately) was apparently a secular instrument and is never listed in the temple orchestra; only in Ps. 150:4 it is mentioned in a religious (but not ritual) function. Its ethos was not blameless at all, as we see from Genesis Rabbah 50:

"The angels said to Lot: There are players of the pipe (organ) in the country, hence it ought to be destroyed. Its rabbinical identification with the aboda, the flute of the notorious Syrian bayaderes, emphasizes the erotic element which already the Hebrew name suggests. (Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, p. 460, Abingdon).

Organum -Of musical instruments, a pipe, Vulg. Gen. 4, 21; an organ, water-organ: organa hydraulica, -Of a church-organ

Organon, to, ( ) a Musical instrument: a machine for doing hard work in making war and creating the "arousal" in pagan ceremonial legalism

Polemeios: warlike, aoida war-note, of the trumpet, B.17.4
aoid-ê 5. = eppsdê, spell, incantation

Orgi-a rites of the Cabeiri and Demeter. most freq. of the rites of Dionysus, orgia Mousôn Ar.Ra.356

All musical terms and names of instruments speak of casting a spell: John called the speakers, singers and instrument players in Revelation 18 SORCERERS. They worked UNDER the Mother of Harlots (Rev 17)

Music is the MARK god reserved only for those making war on His people as they try to "wear out the saints" to worship THEM.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 16th, 2016, 4:00 am #12

CHORUS OF ACHARNIAN ELDERS

SCENE: The Athenian Ecclesia on the Pnyx; afterwards Dicaeopolis' house in the country.

DICAEOPOLIS[1] (alone)

What cares have not gnawed at my heart and how few have been the pleasures in my life! Four, to be exact, while my troubles have been as countless as the grains of sand on the shore! Let me see! of what value to me have been these few pleasures? Ah! I remember that I was delighted in soul when Cleon had to disgorge those five talents;[2] I was in ecstasy and I love the Knights for this deed; 'it is an honour to Greece.'[3] But the day when I was impatiently awaiting a piece by Aeschylus,[4] what tragic despair it caused me when the herald called, "Theognis,[5] introduce your Chorus!" Just imagine how this blow struck straight at my heart!

On the other hand, what joy Dexitheus caused me at the musical competition, when he played a Boeotian melody on the lyre! But this year by contrast! Oh! what deadly torture to hear Chaeris[6] perform the prelude in the Orthian mode![7] --Never, however, since I began to bathe, has the dust hurt my eyes as it does to-day.

Still it is the day of assembly; all should be here at daybreak, and yet the Pnyx[8] is still deserted. They are gossiping in the marketplace, slipping hither and thither to avoid the vermilioned rope.


9 Several means were used to force citizens to attend the assemblies; the shops were closed; circulation was only permitted in those streets which led to the Pnyx; finally, a rope covered with vermilion was drawn round those who dallied in the Agora (the market-place), and the late-comers, ear- marked by the imprint of the rope, were fined.


The best you can get out of the Psallo Cult is that it also means plucking a chalk line: we know the definition of snapping a chalk line and it is not in psallo.

The voting citizens of Athens and other places were to attend the EKKLESIA or Civil church. Many men hung around the speakers, singers, instrument players and prostitutes (where Jesus consigned the Pipers) and were tardy in getting to the assembly. The leader sent out men with a rope covered with lots of stuff and dragged them to ekklesia: that is one meaning of psallo. When they got to "church" they were not permitted to participate so we have the PSALLO people excluded along with any musicians except when it was taken over by show time.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

October 16th, 2016, 6:46 pm #13

Does anyone remember an older rock and roll song with the following lyrics...Wild thing, you make my heart sing? This is one of the examples I used to try to explain "singing" in the heart. Doesn't always have to be an outward expression, but inwardness as when we understand Christ's teaching. It certainly made my heart sing when I learned I could have my sins remitted when I was baptized.

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]I agree with Dianna about "singing" in the heart.

First of all, in regard to "music" which is generally defined as singing and/or instrumental, we learn from the New Testament (KJV) that music is mentioned only once. But guess what? It was a "music and dancing" party when the "prodigal son" came home.

The word "sing" as a verb occurs a few times in the N.T., none of which indicates that it is a command or mandatory, but rather as "personal":

------ I will sing unto thy name (Rom. 15:9).
------ I will sing with the spirit (1 Cor. 14:15).
------ I will sing with the understanding (1 Cor. 14:15).
------ I will sing praise unto thee (Heb. 2:12).
------ Let him sing psalms (Jas. 5:13).


Dianna, I also have a sample of "singing in the heart." When I personally sing (literally uttering the words or not) "I need Thee ev'ry hour," it is a prayer to me -- far from bragging to God with "I love you."[/color]
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Dave
Dave

October 17th, 2016, 6:09 pm #14

Hebrews 2
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

Two Things here.

1-Is this a personal SING, or a CHURCH SING?

2-Wonder why in Ephesians 5 it is translated as SPEAK, but in Hebrews 2 it is translated as SING? I really really don't wonder. I know the differenece between speak and sing, everyone else does too, so it comes down to accepting it or not.




Actually, even in this Scripture HERE, we see the author diferentiating between SPEAKING/ DECLARING and SING. Two different words. So we can DECLARE/SPEAK to God while we SING.

LIFE IS GOOD!
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Dave
Dave

October 17th, 2016, 6:33 pm #15

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]I agree with Dianna about "singing" in the heart.

First of all, in regard to "music" which is generally defined as singing and/or instrumental, we learn from the New Testament (KJV) that music is mentioned only once. But guess what? It was a "music and dancing" party when the "prodigal son" came home.

The word "sing" as a verb occurs a few times in the N.T., none of which indicates that it is a command or mandatory, but rather as "personal":

------ I will sing unto thy name (Rom. 15:9).
------ I will sing with the spirit (1 Cor. 14:15).
------ I will sing with the understanding (1 Cor. 14:15).
------ I will sing praise unto thee (Heb. 2:12).
------ Let him sing psalms (Jas. 5:13).


Dianna, I also have a sample of "singing in the heart." When I personally sing (literally uttering the words or not) "I need Thee ev'ry hour," it is a prayer to me -- far from bragging to God with "I love you."[/color]
"...,we learn from the New Testament (KJV) that music is mentioned only once. But guess what? It was a "music and dancing" party when the "prodigal son" came home."


AND???


Wa this music and dancing wrong? AND, you also ASSUMED and WRONGFULLY added that it was a party. It was a celebration. You twisted it to mean something negative. That is Donnie being Donnie.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 17th, 2016, 7:21 pm #16

Zephaniah 3
17 The Lord thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing.


When God is pleased, what does He do?


SING SING SING



That is KJV, not to be confused with the KDV (Ken Donnie Version)

‘Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things,
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
In bringing many sons unto glory,
.....Ito make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one:
.....Ior which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Notice the UNIVERSAL message: Jesus DECLARES as an evangelist God UNTO THE BRETHREN.

SAYING, I will DECLARE thy name unto my brethren,
in the midst of the church will I sing praise (hymn) unto thee. Heb 2:12


When you speak to the BRETHREN you ALWAYS Declare or Speak:

DECLARE in Greek is:

Apagello (g518) ap-ang-el'-lo; from 575 and the base of 32; to announce: - bring word (again), declare, report, shew (again), tell.
Aggelos (g32) ang'-el-os; from aggello, [prob. der. from 71; comp. 34] (to bring tidings); a messenger; esp. an "angel"; by impl. a pastor: - angel, messenger


That LIMITS only the Gospel which is the good news or Gospel of the KINGDOM. That is the WORD and excludes any silly self-authored sermons or songs.

However, Jesus said that "I" will do the singing

“Humn-eo descant tell over and over again, harp upon, repeat, recite, ton nomon humnein RECITE the form of the LAW,

This does not mean to entertain but to do the work of an EVANGELIST: Speak or Preach.

Jesus does not command YOU to sing anything: He as Holy Spirit is present in the Ekklesia in Heaven and Earth.
If you CLAIM that Jesus SINGS in your congregation why are you so Purpose Driven that you make yourown musicintended to "Make the Lambs Dumb before the Slaughter?" Don't you INTEND to SHUT HIS MOUTH.

Heb. 2:13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath GIVEN me.

Jesus doesn't even PRAY for those OF the World, Kosmos or the Ecumenical as the kingdom of the Devil. God hides from them. His "children" are lost spirits who are ON the earth but not OF the earth. If you want to singing anything BUT the Scriptures and cannot understand that SPEAK is for the congregation; Singing is IN the heart and to God. Furthermore, Hymn has no relationship to modern tuneful ditties. We sing, God sings, Jesus sings when WE honor Him by DELARING His evangelistic invitation.</font>
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 17th, 2016, 7:26 pm #17

Zephaniah 3
17 The Lord thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing.


When God is pleased, what does He do?


SING SING SING



That is KJV, not to be confused with the KDV (Ken Donnie Version)
I don't know why Dave wants to use people in JAIL or a Prodigal Son hanging out with pigs as his pattern. Symphony means to sound together and does not necessarly include MUSIC.

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Dave
Dave

October 18th, 2016, 2:00 am #18

Ken,
Why would you want to do what is right and go to heaven? Mirth, merry, and music is going to follow this life for those who wish to be up there. Definitely not your cup of tea.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 18th, 2016, 2:25 am #19

Zephaniah 3
17 The Lord thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing.


When God is pleased, what does He do?


SING SING SING



That is KJV, not to be confused with the KDV (Ken Donnie Version)
The SOUNDS were up in the AIR over ZION: when you hear these PANIC sounds in the spiritual Zion it is a WARNING of Judgment soon. IF you are still LIVING the direct command is to GO, quickly and Preach the Gospel.

I heard the TRUMPET sounds being sounded throughout the world even among the historic Church of Christ who obeyed the law AGAINST "vocal or instrumental rejoicing" in the Church of Christ (the Rock) in the wilderness. So, saying that you are part of THE CHURCH OF CHRIST which is a School only for DISCIPLES or STUDENTS doesn't not save you.

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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

October 18th, 2016, 5:22 am #20

Hebrews 2
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

Two Things here.

1-Is this a personal SING, or a CHURCH SING?

2-Wonder why in Ephesians 5 it is translated as SPEAK, but in Hebrews 2 it is translated as SING? I really really don't wonder. I know the differenece between speak and sing, everyone else does too, so it comes down to accepting it or not.




Actually, even in this Scripture HERE, we see the author diferentiating between SPEAKING/ DECLARING and SING. Two different words. So we can DECLARE/SPEAK to God while we SING.

LIFE IS GOOD!
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]1. It is personal: "I will sing...." Even in the assembly, it is still "I will sing." No one should do that for you -- not even the "Praise Team."

Actually, there are numerous versions (translations) that do not mention the word "sing." Instead: "I will praise thee" or "I will glorify thee."

2. Ephesians 5 is translated correctly: "SPEAKING to one another in psalms, hymns and spiritual songs."

Can you imagine if it were translated: "SINGING TO ONE ANOTHER IN psalms, hymns and spiritual songs"? That would be chaotic! Dave singing to Donnie. Bill singing to Dave. Ken singing to Bill and Dave....[/color]
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