“Rubel Shelly to step down from pulpit at Woodmont Hills”

“Rubel Shelly to step down from pulpit at Woodmont Hills”

Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

April 9th, 2005, 7:28 am #1

Source: The Christian Chronicle

    • <font size=5>Rubel Shelly to step down from pulpit at Woodmont Hills </font>

      By Erik Tryggestad
      The Christian Chronicle
      February 01, 2005

      <font size=3 face=Times New Roman><font color=red>After 27 years as preaching minister, Shelly accepts teaching post in Michigan</font>


      <font color=indigo>After 27 years behind the pulpit of The Family of God at Woodmont Hills, Rubel Shelly announced that he will cease preaching on Sundays, effective July 2005.

      "The time has come for me to lay down that role in order to focus on something different," Shelly told his congregation Jan. 30, during a joint sermon with Woodmont's preaching minister, John York.

      Shelly, who began his ministry in Nashville, Tenn., in 1978, will serve as professor at Rochester College, Rochester Hills, Mich.

      "Rochester College is gaining final approval for a master's in Religious Education, on track to begin course delivery in fall 2005," said Jennifer Hamilton, academic dean of the College of Arts and Sciences at Rochester. "Dr. Shelly will teach ministry courses in the context of this program."

      Shelly has a doctorate and master's degree from Vanderbilt University, Nashville, along with degrees from Harding University, Searcy, Ark., and Harding University Graduate School of Religion, Memphis, Tenn.

      But Shelly said that he and his wife, Myra, do not intend to move away from Nashville.

      "In terms of this church, I will continue to write and teach from here — concentrating on regular Wednesday night teaching," Shelly said. "I will write 'The FAX of Life' and continue to play whatever role the shepherds wish me to fill in helping connect us to the larger community through service projects ..."

      Those projects include a health center, a program to bridge the racial divide between churches, and a project to build an orphanage and school in India for underprivileged children, including those who lost parents in the Dec. 26 tsunami.

      An earlier story posted on this Web site drew from an article that appeared in the Tennessean, Nashville's daily newspaper, Feb. 1. The story stated that Shelly was leaving the Woodmont church.

      But statements from the Jan. 30 sermon, posted a few days later on the church's Web site, contradict such notions.

      "Times like these arouse almost instant anxiety," York told the congregation Jan. 30, "and I admit that for myself and for our shepherds and for all of us as we begin to wonder what comes next.

      "But I also know that faith is always about the unseen and being people of the Kingdom of God means living with an openness to God's future, never knowing exactly what that future looks like."

      Dan Dozier also made a statement to the congregation on behalf of the elders at the Woodmont church.

      "We're happy that Rubel and Myra are not moving," he said. "We think it makes sense for them to keep Nashville as 'home plate' on their playing field. We want him to continue his teaching ministry here while he also expands his work training others for ministry at Rochester College."

      Shelly said, "Nothing would cause me to feel better about the time Myra and I have spent here than for this church to grow, prosper, and thrive as we step back a bit here. I'd like to think we have helped lay a foundation that others will build on for generations to come." </font></font>
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Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

April 9th, 2005, 8:09 am #2


Source: The Christian Chronicle

  • <font color=blue>DIALOGUE</font>

    <font size=5>A Conversation with Rubel Shelly </font>

    By Ted Parks
    For the Christian Chronicle
    May 31, 2001


    <font size=3 color=indigo face=Times New Roman>NASHVILLE, TENN. - Nobody likes surprises. Maybe the dramatic turns and sudden detours of Rubel Shelly’s personal journey and public life as preacher, author, and teacher in churches of Christ have intensified the bumps he’s experienced on the road. Or perhaps the real reason Shelly inspires both admiration and anathemas is that he mirrors a movement embarked itself on a painful but redemptive quest for identity.

    Finding in Shelly a “microcosm” of church controversies about how to hear the Restoration plea in Scripture, historian Richard Hughes traces Shelly’s metamorphosis as minister and scholar in his 1996 book, “Reviving the Ancient Faith.”

    Hughes notes Shelly co-founded The Spiritual Sword, in 1969 with Thomas B. Warren, assuming the role of “celebrated spokesperson for the conservative wing of Churches of Christ.” But by the early 1980s, Shelly had transformed into “a leader of a new generation of reformers,” Hughes says.

    Shelly continues to preach for the Family of God at Woodmont Hills, the Nashville congregation he has served more than 20 years. He is author of numerous articles and more than 25 books, from textually centered studies of Luke and Acts to theological analyses like The Second Incarnation, written with Lipscomb University professor Randy Harris.

    Earlier this year, Shelly shared his perspectives on the nature of faith and the character of churches of Christ as the American Restoration Movement enters its third century.

    In your estimation, what should Christ’s body look like today?

    The larger body of Christ must be very serious about getting outside the “ghetto” that Christians have created for ourselves. Educationally, in publishing, congregational-wise, we’ve increasingly isolated ourselves. At the beginning of the new century, we have to be in the public arena.

    We have to demonstrate that Christian faith is not a private experience. Although it’s very personal to each believer, it’s not private in the sense of being okay for those who choose it but irrelevant to the larger culture. Christianity was meant to challenge the world for its allegiance at every level. It’s salt and light in all the spheres where its people go.

    I hope we create this sense of God’s sovereignty over everything for his people. My responsibility in the workplace, in the classroom, in everything I do is, to be the presence of Christ.

    Just read the books, see the movies, and listen to the talking-head TV shows, and you discover that people are aimless and adrift. But they keep using this term “spiritual”— they want spiritual direction. That’s the business of the body of Christ.

    How will our fellowship look if it conforms to this vision of Christ’s body?

    It means we begin to try to have serious engagement at least in the larger religious community. We’ve been isolationist and sectarian in our approach.

    Perhaps it’s our posture of theological isolation as a religious group that has led us to a lot of personal isolation. The Christian who is a CEO, a line-worker in a factory, or a third-grade teacher, a full-time mom, a graduate student in psychology, or a high school student trying to find her way, these people have to take the claim of Christ on their lives seriously.

    Our task is not to stand outside the culture and wave our arms and shout and point in the direction. Rather, it is to model serious discipleship in the belief that other people will see that that kind of life has focus and meaning.

    We can’t be quite so doctrinaire and start at the places we have traditionally wanted to. Selling our distinctives is not evangelism. Instead, evangelism is demonstrating the difference Christ makes in turning aimless lives into purposeful lives.

    Who are we right now as a religious movement?

    I don’t know. I see a lot of questing for identity in terms of theological distinctives that people want to keep in place.

    If our identity is found in anything other than Christ, I think we’re going to remain confused about who we are. I don’t think we will have found our way even at the end of the 21st century.

    The Restoration Movement started out with a goal of calling people back to fundamental commitment to Christ on the authority of Scripture alone. Trying to answer the question about our identity as churches of Christ is so far removed from that original goal, that they are two separate agendas. I used to be interested in the latter agenda. Now, I am interested almost exclusively in the former.

    What does our fellowship especially have to offer the unchurched in view of today’s smorgasbord of spiritual options?

    I think we have some historical and theological perspectives that are very valuable and that a number of mainline denominations can’t offer. Out of our tradition we offer people an opportunity to deal with a personal relationship with Christ that does not have to be filtered through a particular creed or set of sectarian, human understandings.

    That was part of the genius that drove the early Restoration Movement. Those people of 200 years ago got a ready hearing by offering Christ on the authority of Scripture alone and leaving lots of issues to the best personal understandings that believers could bring to them.

    But over time, we have done what every identifiable Christian group tends to do. For the most part we have not written our creed, but we have offered not simply Christ on the authority of Scripture, but a set of recognizable interpretations or what I have heard called “consensus beliefs.”

    If we could get back to that more authentic restoration posture, without having to pass the orthodoxy tests we’ve superimposed, we would become immediately healthier in the process and be seen as evangelistically viable. The more explicit and rigid your set of interpretations becomes, the harder it is to do evangelism. The searching soul is just looking for a fundamental anchor for life.

    Among the recent changes in churches of Christ, what shifts, if any, do you see in our fellowship’s concern about social issues?

    The church must be more socially sensitive and active than it has been. The reason there are such racial divides in our fellowship is that we have not taken seriously the social ethic that’s supposed to go with discipleship.

    We have not only been sectarian with our religious neighbors, but we have been racist within our own church culture.

    In the church at the start of the 21st century, we’ve not made for our time the bold declarations that the first-century church made about reconciliation of Jew and Gentile. Martin Luther King was much more prophetic than any of our preachers, college presidents or editors of papers dared to be. We had to be drawn kicking and screaming into the acknowledgment of basic civil rights.

    We have not been in the forefront of dealing with people with AIDS, the homeless, the working poor, the underemployed, the abused and battered wives and children. There are a few sterling exceptions, but they are notable only for being exceptions.

    For the most part, we let the government or some private agency step up to those needs, while we hold church. The church is supposed to be on the frontlines of those issues. We don’t have the credibility to speak for Christ until the larger community has seen us acting like Christ.

    How do you explain this lack of involvement?

    It’s easier to debate the nuances of the scriptural statement than it is to take the obvious statements at face value about going out here to the poor, and the people in prison and the people without clothes.

    I think we enjoy the comfort of being middle class. And in the places where churches have followed the primary flow of the culture, they have adopted its values of letting the marginalized stay on the margins. We make some grocery donations at Christmas, and we offer them the used coats we’ve discarded.

    We do church and let these people fall through the cracks.

    Historically people who are theologically conservative have essentially embraced the doctrine of salvation by good works, where the good work was theological hairsplitting until you got all the details just right. Again, that’s a fascinating distraction from salvation as I read about it in the New Testament, that immediately sets you down in community and makes you sensitive to the hurts of people around you.

    Biblical theology sends you on a mission of relating to people in the way Jesus related to them. It is not an end in itself. </font>
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chuck sonn
chuck sonn

April 9th, 2005, 2:02 pm #3

Donnie,

Thank you for your diligent research to bring back much of the path that Rubel, Woodmont Hills(formerly Ashwood) and churches of Christ in general have been on.

I think back to when I attended Ashwood back in 1981-87. I remember accepting Jesus in Dec. 1981. I remember not understanding why they had strange understanding of some of the bible and rejection of other parts. I remember how doctrinally rigid Rubel's teaching was. At the same time I didn't see much concern for the immediate changing community. Everyone just wanted to be a scholar in the Word, but there was only token fruit in the lives of the congregation. As the years have gone by and God has continued to refine me in the crucible of life, I see the same transformation in Rubel and many others. I see many that are still on the same rigid doctrinal path of performance. What a blessing it is to be compelled to care for the destitute by an internal Spirit that I can't even explain. It's like the wind...I can't see it...but I can see where it has been.

blessings to all...Donnie, hope to see you in the balcony tomorrow! stop and say hi before you go...I'll meet you half way.

your brother in Christ...
chuck
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Jimmy Wren
Jimmy Wren

April 9th, 2005, 6:02 pm #4

Reactions to Shelly Dialogue

July 17, 2001



Letters to The Christian Chronicle - Your feature on Rubel Shelly (Christian Chronicle, June, 2001) is interesting, especially in light of the Chronicle’s deafening silence as regards his role and that of his Woodmont Hills Church in coordinating and promoting the recent Billy Graham Crusade in Nashville. While Shelly is to be commended for his work in Christian apologetics and his stands on social justice and morality issues, he is a classic illustration of the truth that extremism breeds opposite extremism. Also he and Woodmont Hills are increasingly forcing the brotherhood of churches of Christ (and specifically Christian universities) to raise the question, At what point does a church of Christ cease being a church of Christ?
JIM HOWARD
Memphis, Tennessee
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Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

April 9th, 2005, 6:41 pm #5

Donnie,

Thank you for your diligent research to bring back much of the path that Rubel, Woodmont Hills(formerly Ashwood) and churches of Christ in general have been on.

I think back to when I attended Ashwood back in 1981-87. I remember accepting Jesus in Dec. 1981. I remember not understanding why they had strange understanding of some of the bible and rejection of other parts. I remember how doctrinally rigid Rubel's teaching was. At the same time I didn't see much concern for the immediate changing community. Everyone just wanted to be a scholar in the Word, but there was only token fruit in the lives of the congregation. As the years have gone by and God has continued to refine me in the crucible of life, I see the same transformation in Rubel and many others. I see many that are still on the same rigid doctrinal path of performance. What a blessing it is to be compelled to care for the destitute by an internal Spirit that I can't even explain. It's like the wind...I can't see it...but I can see where it has been.

blessings to all...Donnie, hope to see you in the balcony tomorrow! stop and say hi before you go...I'll meet you half way.

your brother in Christ...
chuck
<font size=3 color=indigo face=Times New Roman>Chuck,

I’m sorry that you continue to be in a state of delusion. Please don’t include “churches of Christ in general” in or associate them with Rubel and his “Purpose-Driven Left” Movement. That certainly is untrue. To the majority of the churches of Christ, both Rub and Max have apostatized from and left the New Testament church—several years ago. These congregations do not share both men’s “strange” doctrines, as Jimmy Wren has ably put it.

My objective in starting this thread is to EXPOSE apostates, such as Rubel Shelly, and their “strange” teachings—NOT PROMOTE. Please don’t misunderstand me or deviate from the concerns and issues that this board brings up and discusses.

Chuck, you may recall that “Woodmont Hills” was discussed on this [your favorite] “I believe” website several weeks ago. Note the following “speculation” or “curiosity”:
  • ___________________________________________

    By Whiplash (Re: Woodmont Hills, Posted on 2/2 2:03 PM)

    Is this latest move by Mr. Shelly a concession that the Postmodern ideas championed in The Jesus Proposal etc have failed to produce any tangible effect in Nashville-at-large (let alone the region or nation or world) 5 to 7+ years after implementation?

    Let's face it -- when someone is 60 years old, there's no time to wait around for a seed to sprout. So this could well be seen as time to test northern soil that may be more fertile than that of the heavily-churched Bible Belt. Or perhaps he's beginning to feel the part of "a prophet in his home town", so to speak.

    I suppose that I am not alone in being curious to see a post-Shelly Woodmont Hills.
    While this event does not usher in life-without-Shelly at Woodmont Hills, it certainly heightens the speculation.
    ___________________________________________

    By TKS (Re: Woodmont Hills, Posted on 2/2 2:32 PM)

    I believe Rubel will just be teaching at Rochchester. He will be training young preacher in "Urban Ministry" in a new graduate program. It could be an exciting time at Woodmont. I don't believe they will regress in their desire to move the church in the direction they have been going. It could actually accelerate.
    ___________________________________________
Be informed that the pseudo-Baptist Rub and Max are not accepted in Baptist circles, either, although they are happy to see them leave the New Testament church.

Donnie </font>
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Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

April 10th, 2005, 7:08 am #6

<font size=3 color=indigo face=Times New Roman>Here’s a good answer to that question from one of the respondents on Shelly’s “iBelieve” website:
  • __________________________________________

    By AmandaD (“Re: Woodmont Hills,” Posted on 2/2 10:19 AM)

    why doesn't RS teach at Lipscomb again?

    Because LU doesn't want to lose any more money from the conservative supporters they have left.
    __________________________________________
Ah, “money from the conservative supporters….”

What a coincidence that while Ruby will be teaching at Rochester College (formerly Michigan Christian College), Steve Flatt is leaving Lipscomb University for an executive postion at a healthcare company. (cf. thread: “Steve Flatt Leaving Lipscomb”)

Donnie</font>
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chuck sonn
chuck sonn

April 10th, 2005, 11:18 am #7

<font size=3 color=indigo face=Times New Roman>Chuck,

I’m sorry that you continue to be in a state of delusion. Please don’t include “churches of Christ in general” in or associate them with Rubel and his “Purpose-Driven Left” Movement. That certainly is untrue. To the majority of the churches of Christ, both Rub and Max have apostatized from and left the New Testament church—several years ago. These congregations do not share both men’s “strange” doctrines, as Jimmy Wren has ably put it.

My objective in starting this thread is to EXPOSE apostates, such as Rubel Shelly, and their “strange” teachings—NOT PROMOTE. Please don’t misunderstand me or deviate from the concerns and issues that this board brings up and discusses.

Chuck, you may recall that “Woodmont Hills” was discussed on this [your favorite] “I believe” website several weeks ago. Note the following “speculation” or “curiosity”:
  • ___________________________________________

    By Whiplash (Re: Woodmont Hills, Posted on 2/2 2:03 PM)

    Is this latest move by Mr. Shelly a concession that the Postmodern ideas championed in The Jesus Proposal etc have failed to produce any tangible effect in Nashville-at-large (let alone the region or nation or world) 5 to 7+ years after implementation?

    Let's face it -- when someone is 60 years old, there's no time to wait around for a seed to sprout. So this could well be seen as time to test northern soil that may be more fertile than that of the heavily-churched Bible Belt. Or perhaps he's beginning to feel the part of "a prophet in his home town", so to speak.

    I suppose that I am not alone in being curious to see a post-Shelly Woodmont Hills.
    While this event does not usher in life-without-Shelly at Woodmont Hills, it certainly heightens the speculation.
    ___________________________________________

    By TKS (Re: Woodmont Hills, Posted on 2/2 2:32 PM)

    I believe Rubel will just be teaching at Rochchester. He will be training young preacher in "Urban Ministry" in a new graduate program. It could be an exciting time at Woodmont. I don't believe they will regress in their desire to move the church in the direction they have been going. It could actually accelerate.
    ___________________________________________
Be informed that the pseudo-Baptist Rub and Max are not accepted in Baptist circles, either, although they are happy to see them leave the New Testament church.

Donnie </font>
Donnie,

I didn't mean to upset you by my testimony. It is scriptural you know. I've been in the middle of this for 20+ years now. Remember, I didn't grow up in the cofC, as I believe you didn't also. Am I correct that you come out of the RCC? Would you share a little with your brethren here how that came to pass? I believe we would be interested, I know I would.

"I’m sorry that you continue to be in a state of delusion. Please don’t include “churches of Christ in general” in or associate them with Rubel and his “Purpose-Driven Left” Movement.

I'm not deluded! You may not like it, but the sign is still out there. My bible is definitely revealing a purpose for my life, and it's not trying to figure out what God has said and how He wants things done. It's child's play for sure...love Him with all you have by caring for the destitute...physically, financially, emotionally and spiritually. My book tells me to be active in that pursuit.(ro 2:13, ja 1:22)

"Please don’t misunderstand me or deviate from the concerns and issues that this board brings up and discusses."

Donnie, my message never changes, I pray. My concern is for the destitute, and the church that Christ died for to be concerned for them also. Look around you, you walk theough a harvest field all day, every day. Like our resident eschatologist, Joe, would tell us...the end is near. Be about His work. If you feel that your primary call is to whip the saints in perfect order, so be it. The church has been polluted for 2,000 years. The NT is full of it.

"Chuck, you may recall that “Woodmont Hills” was discussed on this [your favorite] “I believe” website several weeks ago. Note the following “speculation” or “curiosity”:"

I'm not interested in speculation...I'm interested in fruit for His Kingdom.

"Be informed that the pseudo-Baptist Rub and Max are not accepted in Baptist circles, either, although they are happy to see them leave the New Testament church."

I meet with the Baptist Association in Wilson County each Monday. They have 42 congregations there. The same problem/opportunity exists there also. They are more concerned/comfortable going to church than being the church 168 hours per week.

It takes time, Donnie, but we are truly restoring the church we see in Acts 2-4, before the pollution is recorded. The walls between denominations will not come down, but saints are climing over the walls and joining in serving the least of these. What a blessing it is to watch lives transformed, the only purpose that God inspired all of His writers. (Ro 12:2)

See you in the balcony, brother...

blessings
chuck

ps...i have some seder tickets that will be going on sale today for the celebration on April 23. i'd like for you to come and join us if you would.









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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

April 10th, 2005, 4:09 pm #8

<font size=3 color=indigo face=Times New Roman>Here’s a good answer to that question from one of the respondents on Shelly’s “iBelieve” website:
  • __________________________________________

    By AmandaD (“Re: Woodmont Hills,” Posted on 2/2 10:19 AM)

    why doesn't RS teach at Lipscomb again?

    Because LU doesn't want to lose any more money from the conservative supporters they have left.
    __________________________________________
Ah, “money from the conservative supporters….”

What a coincidence that while Ruby will be teaching at Rochester College (formerly Michigan Christian College), Steve Flatt is leaving Lipscomb University for an executive postion at a healthcare company. (cf. thread: “Steve Flatt Leaving Lipscomb”)

Donnie</font>
Steve had been looking before the recent school job. He claims that the health care job is just another one of his 'ministries.' Well, I know the people at the health care organization and it is NOT a ministry. As I remember it is primary housing for people who can still do some things on their own. It is for the well do do and that is ok because they can afford it. I have wondered if this is not a charity job created by something we don't yet know about.

I THINK that there cannot be too many conservatives (the good, bad and ugly) who would send a PREACHING student there even though it may still be acceptable for people getting their MRS degree. My middle daughter attended there, got a good education but would not classify the place as "Christian."

It is a fact that the NEW STYLE PAGAN WORSHIP and infidelity which probably defines the majority of the scholarly "foundation" produces people who WILL NOT pay their way. Being around some of the meetings and publishers in Nashville, I am quite certain that the "religious institution" there hitched their wagon to the SHELLY-JUBILEE trinity which included Steve Flat and a V.P.

However, it a fact that the 'ole conservatives' are the only ones who have founded such schools, orphanages and "human services" groups other than token "ministries" which demands a PROFESSIONAL DEACON to administer.

Too bad, too sad but PENDULUMS do swing. Unfortunately the swiftly fading ANTI-Bible and church people have MASS PRODUCED a more reactionary group which will walk all over them. If I taught ignorant heresy at LU I would prowl around Vanderbilt or some Charismatic college. Health Care or used computers might be open.

But, oops! it is a fact that the denominations DID NOT fall at Shelly-Flatt's Jubilee's feet and I am quite certain that no large church of Christ college would have his name in their catalog and no denominational college would think of hiring any of a group which betrayed the hand that fed them.

Pray that Lipscomb's COMPLIANT board can grasp which side their foundations are buttered on and look for a loyal Bible believer.

Ken
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Eric
Eric

April 11th, 2005, 8:02 pm #9

Donnie,

I didn't mean to upset you by my testimony. It is scriptural you know. I've been in the middle of this for 20+ years now. Remember, I didn't grow up in the cofC, as I believe you didn't also. Am I correct that you come out of the RCC? Would you share a little with your brethren here how that came to pass? I believe we would be interested, I know I would.

"I’m sorry that you continue to be in a state of delusion. Please don’t include “churches of Christ in general” in or associate them with Rubel and his “Purpose-Driven Left” Movement.

I'm not deluded! You may not like it, but the sign is still out there. My bible is definitely revealing a purpose for my life, and it's not trying to figure out what God has said and how He wants things done. It's child's play for sure...love Him with all you have by caring for the destitute...physically, financially, emotionally and spiritually. My book tells me to be active in that pursuit.(ro 2:13, ja 1:22)

"Please don’t misunderstand me or deviate from the concerns and issues that this board brings up and discusses."

Donnie, my message never changes, I pray. My concern is for the destitute, and the church that Christ died for to be concerned for them also. Look around you, you walk theough a harvest field all day, every day. Like our resident eschatologist, Joe, would tell us...the end is near. Be about His work. If you feel that your primary call is to whip the saints in perfect order, so be it. The church has been polluted for 2,000 years. The NT is full of it.

"Chuck, you may recall that “Woodmont Hills” was discussed on this [your favorite] “I believe” website several weeks ago. Note the following “speculation” or “curiosity”:"

I'm not interested in speculation...I'm interested in fruit for His Kingdom.

"Be informed that the pseudo-Baptist Rub and Max are not accepted in Baptist circles, either, although they are happy to see them leave the New Testament church."

I meet with the Baptist Association in Wilson County each Monday. They have 42 congregations there. The same problem/opportunity exists there also. They are more concerned/comfortable going to church than being the church 168 hours per week.

It takes time, Donnie, but we are truly restoring the church we see in Acts 2-4, before the pollution is recorded. The walls between denominations will not come down, but saints are climing over the walls and joining in serving the least of these. What a blessing it is to watch lives transformed, the only purpose that God inspired all of His writers. (Ro 12:2)

See you in the balcony, brother...

blessings
chuck

ps...i have some seder tickets that will be going on sale today for the celebration on April 23. i'd like for you to come and join us if you would.








Why on God's great earth would you chose to be so gleeful that a brother who preaches God's Great gospel is leaving a congragation? why are you so concerned about liberal and conservative? If those young men and women are in a masters of divinity program do you not think they are going to have their own opinions regardless of what Rubell preaches...I've seen Rubell preach many times, why i dont nesecarily agree with every word that man says i understand that he is a man who is trying to preach the gospel according to what he believes is truth, what will bring people to Christ. And i know your going to argue the point that is not what " he thinks is truth, its what Christ said, God wrote" whatever...the bible is SO unbelievably black and white that its ridiculous to think its one hundred percent translatable! one thing matters....Did Christ Die for my sins...yes. rubel shelly believes that , you believe that...shut up about everything else.
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Jimmy Wren
Jimmy Wren

April 11th, 2005, 11:04 pm #10

Eric asked and answers his own question, "Did Christ Die for my sins...yes. rubel shelly believes that , you believe that...shut up about everything else."

Jimmy questions: How do you know that Christ died for your sins Eric?

There is only one way that you could know that and that is because "the Bible tells you so".

It is not what Rubel tells you about Christ, it is what the bible tells you about Christ that has meaning.

Eric, never put your faith in the 'messanger', put your faith in Christ. Where did people learn of Christ before Rubel Shelly? From the Bible.

Eric says, "Did Christ Die for my sins...yes. rubel shelly believes that , you believe that...shut up about everything else."

"...shut up about everyting else." Christ died for his sins and nothing else matters.

So we leave Eric with a "dead" Christ. We will not discuss the resurrection, we will leave Christ in the grave. We will not discuss the church, we will leave Christ in the grave. We will not discuss the written Word of God.

we will leave Eric with a "dead" Christ and just shut up about everything else.

In Christian Love,

Jimmy
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