Rochester Church of Christ announces satellite church

Rochester Church of Christ announces satellite church

Joined: February 4th, 2008, 5:49 pm

February 4th, 2008, 5:56 pm #1

The Rochester Church of Christ has announced the foundation of a "satellite" church, overseen by the leadership of the Rochester Church of Christ. This new "church" is called the Christ Church: Macomb and will feature, according to the website http://www.christchurchmacomb.blogspot.com/ , "a blend of instrumental and acappella music" and "A DVD captured from services at Rochester Church of Christ."

How long will it be before the Rochester Church of Christ is fully "changed" and renamed to Christ Church: Rochester??
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Stan Cook
Stan Cook

February 24th, 2008, 11:16 am #2

So what, if they want to be called "Christ Church"? That's just as scriptural as "Church of Christ". It just goes to show that Churches of Christ are not autonomous when people make an issue over something of that nature. It also proves that "Church of Christ" is an official title or a brand name. The title "Church of Christ" has become denominationalized. Do you really think that the Christians in the first century had signs outside the places where they met with "Church of Christ" on them?
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

February 25th, 2008, 5:17 pm #3

The Rochester Church of Christ has announced the foundation of a "satellite" church, overseen by the leadership of the Rochester Church of Christ. This new "church" is called the Christ Church: Macomb and will feature, according to the website http://www.christchurchmacomb.blogspot.com/ , "a blend of instrumental and acappella music" and "A DVD captured from services at Rochester Church of Christ."

How long will it be before the Rochester Church of Christ is fully "changed" and renamed to Christ Church: Rochester??
The satellite church is from following behind Max Lucado too closely: it is a way to build new "chicks" for what Max calls the MOTHER CHURCH. They intend to use the people's money to establish INSTRUMENTAL churches although they throw the a capellas a few gnawed bones. That is fitting because the Mother of Harlots (Rev 17) uses the "lusted after fruits (Amos etal) as slick speakers, singers and instrument players. John in Revelation 18 called them sorcerers who HAD deceived the whole world. That points back to Lucifer (Zoe mother of the gods) who is called the "singing and harp playing prostitute." There is no recorded history which does not mark this as a hostile takeover of gender-bleeds if you read.

Patrick Mead at Rochester Church of Christ in his first sermon on God and Instrumental Music sifts through the Old Testament for passages that use an instrument of any kind. This tends to flood the mind with the notion that the Bible is filled with direct commands to use instrumental music to worship God. Here is my first review of Patrick Meads DITTO HEAD of the NACC handouts.

http://www.piney.com/Patrick.Mead.html

Patrick's sermon # 2 has been reviewed in part by clicking here.

http://www.piney.com/Rochester.2.html

This intentionally just picks up on the obvious uses of instruments (machines for deceiving or controlling) none of which are used in the spiritual worship of the "citizens" of Israel. All of the "proof texts" lifted from the NACC's lexicon prove that the preacher has NEVER read either the context or story line.

On the contrary, these are all marks of Satan (Lucifer, Zoe), making war, sending signals, exorcism, prostitutes and Sodomites. The proof-texts--intentionally ignoring the context and story line--are MARKS of a national, Civil-Priestly state to which God abandoned Israel because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. [Acts 7 and many clear statements)

On the other hand, the Bible is flooded with LOUD warnings beginning with Genesis where the "serpent" is defined as a musical enchanter(ess) who is bisexual and able to wholly seduce Eve in a sexual way says Paul and able for Adam to "eat of the tallest tree in Eden" whom the prophets identify as the Assyrians. The FRUITS are not apples.

Lucifer the singing and harp playing prostitute in Eden: Ezekiel 28
Assyrians in Eden: Ezekiel 31

In the middle of the Bible and throughout, Amos lumps the female-controlled players of musical instrumets with the "basket of summer FRUITS." These are defined as the DOGS or CATAMITES Paul warned about in our worship. They caused the people to hunger and thirst for the Word of God until they died or went into captivity with the females led away with fishhooks in their nose.

The Bible ends with the Mother of harlots (Revelation 17) using the "lusted after FRUITS" as speakers, singers and instrumentalists identified by John as sorcerers (Revelation 18) who HAD deceived the whole world.
Why is this important in reviewing the RESOURCES hand fed by the NACC to a few preachers and THEIR repeating the material almost word-for-word?

It is because Jesus told the Apostles why He would not even preach the clear gospel to the clergy of Scribes and Pharisees whom He called hypocrites. Jesus pointed to Isaiah and Ezekiel who identify the HYPOCRITES as speakers, singers and instrument players along with anyone who would go out and listen to them to be entertained.

Jesus said that truth had been hidden in parables from the foundation of the World FROM those He also called Doctors of the Law who "Take away the KEY to knowledge." They, being blind, will lead the blind and charge you an unlawful wage for doing it.

Why do people hide the dozens of bright lights warning about instruments as a MARK of rejecting God under a bushel of isolated verses none of which defines collective worship?

We have responded to Stan Cook who seems to be an AGENT of some kind on the Quail Springs Thread:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/187120/

They PLANNED to "burn down" churches and rebuild on the ashes if necessary in order to steal the church house of widows. Because they have Judas Goated only a few churches of those ORIGINAL PLANNERS ONLY out of about 13,500 they are feeling really nasty and blaming those who were shot in the heart for getting healed.
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Stan Cook
Stan Cook

February 26th, 2008, 10:18 am #4

Here you go again bringing sexuality into people's worship. You didn't respond to my comment about a group having to wear the "title" "Church of Christ", because you can't. You just ramble on with your babbling about stuff that makes absolutely no sense. Others have pointed this out over and over again. By the way, our family worships with a very conservative congregation whose elders would not ever consider bringing in instrumental music. But that's what's so wonderful about autonomy. Elders of congregations can lead churches to the best of their abilty and, right or wrong, they will answer to God for their decisions. Most elders know the Word, and even when they make decisions that other congregations don't agree on, that's between them and God.
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Joined: February 4th, 2008, 5:49 pm

February 26th, 2008, 5:05 pm #5

So what, if they want to be called "Christ Church"? That's just as scriptural as "Church of Christ". It just goes to show that Churches of Christ are not autonomous when people make an issue over something of that nature. It also proves that "Church of Christ" is an official title or a brand name. The title "Church of Christ" has become denominationalized. Do you really think that the Christians in the first century had signs outside the places where they met with "Church of Christ" on them?
Stan,

There is more at stake here than just a name change. There is the issue of the elders being over 2 different churches and obviously the issue of instrumental music. These two issues, as well as the name change, are a large step toward denominationalism.

The name, indicating the ownership of the church is VERY important. You also seem to have a misunderstanding of the use of the term "church of Christ". This is not a name given to a building, this is a name given to the disciples of Christ that have been added to His body. Just as the word Christian does not apply to catholics or lutherans, the church of Christ is reserved only for those who are part of His body and remain faithful to the New Testament. You cannot "join" the church of Christ, you are added to the "body" by baptism.

The church of Christ is THE church established by Christ. It is NOT a denomination. It is also the ONLY church founded by Christ and the only church or body that is referred to in the New Testament. If you are not a part of the body (the church of Christ) you are part of a man-made denomination.

When the name "church of Christ" is on a building, you can be fairly confident that the members (congregation) that meets there is a PART of the body of Christ. Although each denomination of the church of Christ is autonomous, they are all members of the ONE body, ONE church established by Christ.

Do not confuse the man-made names of churches (denominations) with the ONE church established by Christ.

The name IS important. The church of Christ is THE body of Christ, made up of members who have been added to the church. You will NOT read about the Catholic church in the Bible, you will NOT read about the Lutheran church in the Bible and you will not read about the denomination called Christ Church in the Bible either.

If the name were not important, then we would not have found it mentioned in the scriptures.

"Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you." Romans 16:16
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Jimmy Joe
Jimmy Joe

February 27th, 2008, 6:15 am #6

Here you go again bringing sexuality into people's worship. You didn't respond to my comment about a group having to wear the "title" "Church of Christ", because you can't. You just ramble on with your babbling about stuff that makes absolutely no sense. Others have pointed this out over and over again. By the way, our family worships with a very conservative congregation whose elders would not ever consider bringing in instrumental music. But that's what's so wonderful about autonomy. Elders of congregations can lead churches to the best of their abilty and, right or wrong, they will answer to God for their decisions. Most elders know the Word, and even when they make decisions that other congregations don't agree on, that's between them and God.
Congratulations Mr. Cook as you have deciphered Mr. Sublett as have most readers to this site. By reading Mr. Sublett's post you have been introduced to a new division of sexuality. We've all heard of heterosexual, homosexual, a-sexual, bi-sexual and now the newest division the music-sexual. If you live to be a hundred there is always something new to learn.
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Me
Me

August 11th, 2008, 7:34 am #7

The satellite church is from following behind Max Lucado too closely: it is a way to build new "chicks" for what Max calls the MOTHER CHURCH. They intend to use the people's money to establish INSTRUMENTAL churches although they throw the a capellas a few gnawed bones. That is fitting because the Mother of Harlots (Rev 17) uses the "lusted after fruits (Amos etal) as slick speakers, singers and instrument players. John in Revelation 18 called them sorcerers who HAD deceived the whole world. That points back to Lucifer (Zoe mother of the gods) who is called the "singing and harp playing prostitute." There is no recorded history which does not mark this as a hostile takeover of gender-bleeds if you read.

Patrick Mead at Rochester Church of Christ in his first sermon on God and Instrumental Music sifts through the Old Testament for passages that use an instrument of any kind. This tends to flood the mind with the notion that the Bible is filled with direct commands to use instrumental music to worship God. Here is my first review of Patrick Meads DITTO HEAD of the NACC handouts.

http://www.piney.com/Patrick.Mead.html

Patrick's sermon # 2 has been reviewed in part by clicking here.

http://www.piney.com/Rochester.2.html

This intentionally just picks up on the obvious uses of instruments (machines for deceiving or controlling) none of which are used in the spiritual worship of the "citizens" of Israel. All of the "proof texts" lifted from the NACC's lexicon prove that the preacher has NEVER read either the context or story line.

On the contrary, these are all marks of Satan (Lucifer, Zoe), making war, sending signals, exorcism, prostitutes and Sodomites. The proof-texts--intentionally ignoring the context and story line--are MARKS of a national, Civil-Priestly state to which God abandoned Israel because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. [Acts 7 and many clear statements)

On the other hand, the Bible is flooded with LOUD warnings beginning with Genesis where the "serpent" is defined as a musical enchanter(ess) who is bisexual and able to wholly seduce Eve in a sexual way says Paul and able for Adam to "eat of the tallest tree in Eden" whom the prophets identify as the Assyrians. The FRUITS are not apples.

Lucifer the singing and harp playing prostitute in Eden: Ezekiel 28
Assyrians in Eden: Ezekiel 31

In the middle of the Bible and throughout, Amos lumps the female-controlled players of musical instrumets with the "basket of summer FRUITS." These are defined as the DOGS or CATAMITES Paul warned about in our worship. They caused the people to hunger and thirst for the Word of God until they died or went into captivity with the females led away with fishhooks in their nose.

The Bible ends with the Mother of harlots (Revelation 17) using the "lusted after FRUITS" as speakers, singers and instrumentalists identified by John as sorcerers (Revelation 18) who HAD deceived the whole world.
Why is this important in reviewing the RESOURCES hand fed by the NACC to a few preachers and THEIR repeating the material almost word-for-word?

It is because Jesus told the Apostles why He would not even preach the clear gospel to the clergy of Scribes and Pharisees whom He called hypocrites. Jesus pointed to Isaiah and Ezekiel who identify the HYPOCRITES as speakers, singers and instrument players along with anyone who would go out and listen to them to be entertained.

Jesus said that truth had been hidden in parables from the foundation of the World FROM those He also called Doctors of the Law who "Take away the KEY to knowledge." They, being blind, will lead the blind and charge you an unlawful wage for doing it.

Why do people hide the dozens of bright lights warning about instruments as a MARK of rejecting God under a bushel of isolated verses none of which defines collective worship?

We have responded to Stan Cook who seems to be an AGENT of some kind on the Quail Springs Thread:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/187120/

They PLANNED to "burn down" churches and rebuild on the ashes if necessary in order to steal the church house of widows. Because they have Judas Goated only a few churches of those ORIGINAL PLANNERS ONLY out of about 13,500 they are feeling really nasty and blaming those who were shot in the heart for getting healed.
Borrrrrrrrrrrring, this sycophant loves to spew nonsense about how if you like instrumental music you must be gay. His laughable treatment of text and history continues to make me laugh to the point of tears. Perhaps one day people like Ken Sublet will receive an epiphany, one that will cure his ignorance towards anything factual. People such as this Ken Sublet are the reason Christianity is dying throughout the world, because those who have risen above the ignorance that so heavily plagued this world now point to them as proof that Christianity is nothing but an excuse for the dumb to run to for protection. So, Ken, Thank you for again embarrassing my religion, and thank you again for providing an argument for billions as to why Christianity is falling to the wayside, especially the Church of Christ. When will we learn that the real issue is not who is gay because they like to worship with a guitar, or how wrong others are because they were not born into a tradition that we somewhere along the line decided was the end all be all, but concern ourselves with the true message of Jesus. Caring for the poor, the sick, the hungry, the widows, and the fringe people. I am not a fan of Rochester CofC, not in the slightest, but at least some of them are attempting to do just that. Ken, as I have said before; Grow up, we no longer live in a society where the protestant white male is king, its time for us to use our brains when it comes to Jesus, I know that this may be a new concept
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

November 10th, 2008, 12:36 am #8

The Rochester Church of Christ has announced the foundation of a "satellite" church, overseen by the leadership of the Rochester Church of Christ. This new "church" is called the Christ Church: Macomb and will feature, according to the website http://www.christchurchmacomb.blogspot.com/ , "a blend of instrumental and acappella music" and "A DVD captured from services at Rochester Church of Christ."

How long will it be before the Rochester Church of Christ is fully "changed" and renamed to Christ Church: Rochester??
John Mark Hicks gathers with an ecumenical group at Rochester University under the present oversight of Rubel Shelly. Having come close to failure by not attracting faithful students, this effort seems to have spread into the "broader evangelical" world to find students. To that end, John Mark Hicks repeats his raw assertions about Alexander Campbell's Christian System and other Restoration documents. One supposes that if a few Churches of Christ can fall into the trap of a FAMILY OF GODS none of whom has full Deity, that too will help. We will quote a Mormon blog to say that the WWCOG has dropped their opposition to trinitarianism in order to be accepted by the Evangelical movement.

I have done a quick review and where Hicks makes raw assertions I have tracked down most of his quotes. It is very clear that while Alexander Campbell and all of His religious heritage rejected the Catholic Trinity, Hicks excerpts "scholarly" to make Campbell a TRUE TRINITARIAN.

Our task will be to quote TRUE HISTORY and prove that the postmodern view among the scholars gives itself the LIBERTY to take the old fragments of Scripture and History and REWRITE it into an emerging dogma.

Trinity as âNecessaryâ Fact in Alexander Campbellâs âChristian System of Facts"

http://www.piney.com/Trinity.Hicks.Rochester.html

If you read those false assertions marked John Mark Hicks you can just skip the quotations from the Bible and the REAL Alexander Campbell if it is too long. this will link you to many other Restoration Movement papers to show that those universities once faithful to their founders have fallen into a totally corrupt form of ancient Babylonianism.
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Ray
Ray

November 15th, 2008, 3:21 am #9

Ken will have to answer to God one day on why he slandered faithful brothers of the Lord's Church, and as to why he attacked the body of Christ.

======================

Ray,

There is a colossal difference between attacking the body of Christ and repudiating the teachings of change agents operating in the body of Christ. The latter Ken does; the former he does not.

I would not consider John Mark Hicks and Rubel Shelly faithful brothers of the Lord's church until they return to the basics and fundamentals of Christ's teachings concerning His church or kingdom -- as they once did -- prior to becoming disciples of church transformation or restructuring. The church that belongs to Christ deserves and needs neither.

Hicks and Shelly "will have to answer to God one day ... 'for slandering [His church].'"
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on November 16th, 2008, 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ray
Ray

November 16th, 2008, 8:50 pm #10

No, Donnie. Ken has done nothing good for the Kingdom of God, nor anything to give glory to our Lord. His "ministry" is solely to tear down what Jesus gave his life to build up. Ken is free to diagreewith anyone he wishes, but such freedom does not give him the right to tear down the bride of Christ nor to slander his fellow believers.

Dr. Shelly and Dr. Hicks have done much to give glory to God and to build up his church.

The very fact that you must edit my post with your comments indicates the fear of a post that exposes Ken for what he really is.

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