Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

December 12th, 2006, 5:04 am #21

<font size=3>Source: http://www.bible.ca/H-music.htm </font>

_______________________________


<font color=red size=5 face=times new roman> VARIOUS SCHOLARS</font>


<font color=black size=3 face=times new roman>ALZOG "St. Ambrose and St. Gregory rendered great service to church music by the introduction of what are known as the Ambrosian and Gregorian chants.... Ecclesiastical chant, departing in some instances from the simple majesty of its original character, became more artistic, and, on this account, less heavenly and more profane; and the Fathers of the Church were not slow to censure this corruption of the old and honored church song. Finally, the organ, which seemed an earthly echo of the angelic choirs in heaven, added its full, rich, and inspiring notes to the beautiful simplicity of the Gregorian chant" (Alzog, Catholic Scholar, Church Historian of the University of Freiburg and champion of instrumental music in worship, was faithful to his scholarship when he wrote, Universal Church History, Vol. 1, pp. 696, 697).

AMERICAN "Pope Vitalian is related to have first introduced organs into some of the churches of Western Europe about 670 but the earliest trustworthy account is that of one sent as a present by the Greek emperor Constantine Copronymus to Pepin, king of Franks in 755" (American Encyclopedia, Volume 12, p. 688).

BARCLAY "If God is spirit a man's gifts to God music gifts of the spirit. Animal sacrifices and all manmade things become inadequate. The only gifts that befit the nature of God are the gifts of the spirit - love, loyalty, obedience, devotion" (W. Barclay, The Gospel of John, Vol. 1, p. 161).

BARNES "Psallo … is used, in the New Testament, only in Rom. 15:9 and 1 Cor. 14:15, where it is translated sing; in James 5:13, where it is rendered sing psalms, and in the place before us. The idea here is that of singing in the heart, or praising God from the heart" (Albert Barnes, a Presbyterian, Notes on The Testament, comment on Eph. 5:19).

BENEDICT "In my earliest intercourse among this people, congregational singing generally prevailed among them. . . . The Introduction Of The Organ Among The Baptist. This instrument, which from time immemorial has been associated with cathedral pomp and prelatical power, and has always been the peculiar favorite of great national churches, at length found its way into Baptist sanctuaries, and the first one ever employed by the denomination in this country, and probably in any other, might have been standing in the singing gallery of the Old Baptist meeting house in Pawtucket, about forty years ago, where I then officiated as pastor (1840) ... Staunch old Baptists in former times would as soon tolerated the Pope of Rome in their pulpits as an organ in their galleries, and yet the instrument has gradually found its way among them.... How far this modern organ fever will extend among our people, and whether it will on the whole work a RE- formation or DE- formation in their singing service, time will more fully develop." (Benedict, Baptist historian, Fifty Years Among Baptist, page 204-207)

BEZA "If the apostle justly prohibits the use of unknown tongues in the church, much less would he have tolerated these artificial musical performances which are addressed to the ear alone, and seldom strike the understanding even of the performers themselves." (Theodore Beza, scholar of Geneva, Girardeau's Instrumental Music, p. 166)

BINGHAM "Music in churches is as ancient as the apostles, but instrumental music not so . . . The use of the instrumental, indeed, is much ancienter, but not in church service. . . In the Western parts, the instrument, as not so much as known till the eighth century; for the first organ that was ever seen in France was one sent as a present to King Pepin by Constantinus Copronymus, the Greek emperor. . . . But, now, it was only, used in princes courts, and not yet brought into churches; nor was it ever received into the Greek churches, there being no mention of an organ in all their liturgies ancient or modern." (Joseph Bingham, Works, London Edition. Vol. 11, p. 482-484)

BINGHAM "Music in churches is as ancient as the apostles, but instrumental music not so." (Joseph Bingham, Church of England, Works, vol. 3, page 137)

BURNEY "After the most diligent inquire concerning the time when instrumental music had admission into the ecclesiastical service, there is reason to conclude, that, before the reign of Constantine, ;is the converts to the Christian religion were subject to frequent persecution and disturbance in their devotion, the rise of instruments could hardly have been allowed: and by all that can be collected from the writings of the primitive Christians, they seem never to have been admitted." (Charles Burney, A general history of Music, 1957, p. 426)

CALVIN "Musical instruments in celebrating the praises of God would be no more suitable than the burning of incense, the lighting of lamps, and the restoration of the other shadows of the law. The Papists therefore, have foolishly borrowed, this, as well as many other things, from the Jews. Men who are fond of outward pomp may delight in that noise; but the simplicity which God recommends to us by the apostles is far more pleasing to him. Paul allows us to bless God in the public assembly of the saints, only in a known tongue (I Cor. 14:16) What shall we then say of chanting, which fills the ears with nothing but an empty sound?" (John Calvin, Commentary on Psalms 33)

CATHOLIC "Although Josephus tells of the wonderful effects produced in the Temple by the use of instruments, the first Christians were of too spiritual a fibre to substitute lifeless instruments for or to use them to accompany the human voice. Clement of Alexandria severely condemns the use of instruments even at Christian banquets. St. Chrysostum sharply contrasts the customs of the Christians when they had full freedom with those of the Jews of the Old Testament." (Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 10, pg. 648-652.)

CATHOLIC "For almost a thousand years Gregorian chant, without any instrumental or harmonic addition was the only music used in connection with the liturgy. The organ, in its primitive and rude form, was the first, and for a long time the sole, instrument used to accompany the chant…. The church has never encouraged and at most only tolerated the use of instruments. She enjoins in the 'Caeremonials Episcoporum', - that permission for their use should first be obtained from the ordinary. She holds up as her ideal the unaccompanied chant, and polyphonic, a-capella style. The Sistene Chapel has not even an organ."" (Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 10, pg. 657-688.)

CATHOLIC "We need not shrink from admitting that candles, like incense and lustral water, were commonly employed in pagan worship and the rites paid to the dead. But the Church, from a very early period, took them into her service, just as she adopted many other things indifferent in themselves, which seemed proper to enhance the splendor of religious ceremony. We must not forget that most of these adjuncts to worship, like music, lights, perfumes, ablutions, floral decorations, canopies, fans, screens, bells, vestments, etc. were not identified with any idolatrous cult in particular but they were common to almost all cults." (Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. III, pg. 246.)

CHAMBERS "The organ is said to have been first introduced into church music by Pop Vitalian in 666. In 757, a great organ was sent as a present to Pepin by the Byzantine Emperor, Constantine, and placed in the church St. Corneille as Compiegne." (Chambers Encyclopedia, Vol 7, p. 112)

CLARKE "But were it even evident, which it is not, either from this or any other place in the sacred writings, that instruments of music were prescribed by divine authority under the law, could this be adduced with any semblance of reason, that they ought to be used in Christian worship? No; the whole spirit, soul, and genius of the Christian religion are against this; and those who know the Church of God best, and what constitutes its genuine spiritual state, know that these things have been introduced as a substitute for the life and power of religion; and that where they prevail most, there is least of the power of Christianity. Away with such portentous baubles from the worship of that infinite Spirit who requires His followers to worship Him in spirit and truth, for to no such worship are these instruments friendly." (Adam Clarke (Methodist), Clarke's Commentary, Methodist, Vol. II, pp. 690-691.)

CLARKE "I am an old man, and I here declare that I never knew them to be productive of any good in the worship of God, and have reason to believe that they are productive of much evil. Music as a science I esteem and admire, but instrumental music in the house of God I abominate and abhor. This is the abuse of music, and I here register my protest against all such corruption of the worship of the author of Christianity. The late and venerable and most eminent divine, the Rev. John Wesley, who was a lover of music, and an elegant poet, when asked his opinion of instruments of music being introduced into the chapels of the Methodists, said in his terse and powerful manner, 'I have no objections to instruments of music in our chapels, provided they are neither heard nor seen.' I say the same." (Adam Clark, Methodist)

COLEMAN "The tendency of this (instrumental music) was to secularize the music of the church, and to encourage singing by a choir. Such musical accompaniments were gradually introduced; but they can hardly be assigned to a period earlier than the fifth and sixth centuries. Organs were unknown in church until the eighth or ninth centuries. Previous to this, they had their place in the theater, rather than in the church. they were never regarded with favor in the Eastern church, and were vehemently opposed in many places in the West." (Lyman Coleman, a Presbyterian, Primitive Church, p. 376-377)

CONYBEARE "Throughout the whole passage there is a contrast implied between the Heathen and the Christian practice… When you meet, let your enjoyment consist not in fullness of wine, but fullness of the spirit; let your songs be, not the drinking songs of heathen feasts, but psalms and hymns; and their accompaniment, not the music of the lyre, but the melody of the heart; while you sing them to the praise, not of Bacchus or Venus, but of the Lord Jesus Christ" (Conybeare and Howson, Life and Times of the Apostle Paul, comment on Eph. 5:19).

DICKINSON "While the Greek and Roman songs were metrical, the Christian psalms were anitphons, prayers, responses, etc., were unmetrical; and while the pagan melodies were always sung to an instrumental accompaniment, the church chant was exclusively vocal" (Edward Dickinson, History of Music, p. 54)

DICKINSON "In view of the controversies over the use of instrumental music in worship, which have been so violent in the British and American Protestant churches, it is an interesting question whether instruments were employed by the primitive Christians. We know that instruments performed an important function in the Hebrew temple service and in the ceremonies of the Greeks. At this point, however, a break was made with all previous practice, and although the lyre and flute were sometimes employed by the Greek converts, as a general rule the use of instruments in worship was condemned." … "Many of the fathers, speaking of religious songs, made no mention of instruments; others, like Clement of Alexandria and St. Chrysostom, refer to them only to denounce them. Clement says, "Only one instrument do we use, viz. the cord of peace wherewith we honor God, no longer the old psaltery, trumpet, drum, and flute." Chrysostom exclaims: "David formerly sang in psalms, also we sing today with him; he had a lyre with lifeless strings, the church has a lyre with living strings. Our tongues are the strongs of the lyre, with a different tone, indeed, but with a more accordant piety." St. Ambrose expresses his scorn for those who would play the lyre and psaltery instead of singing hymns and psalms; and St. Augustine adjures believers not to turn their hearts to theatrical instruments. The religious guides of the early Christian felt that there would be an incongruity, and even profanity, in the use of the sensuous nerve-exciting effects of instrumental sound in their mystical, spiritual worship. Their high religious and moral enthusiasm needed no aid from external strings; the pure vocal utterance as the more proper expression of their faith." (Edward Dickinson, Music in the History of the Western Church, p. 54, 55)

FESSENDEN "This species. which is the most natural, is to be considered to have existed before any other... Instrumental music is also of very ancient date, its invention being ascribed to Tubal, the sixth descendant from Cain. The instrumental music was not practiced by the primitive Christians, but was an aid to devotion of later times, is evident from church history. (Fessenden's Encyclopedia of Art and Music, p. 852)

FINNEY "The early Christians refused to have anything to do with the instrumental music which they might have inherited from the ancient world." (Theodore Finney, A History of Music, 1947, p. 43)

FISHER "Church music, which at the outset consisted mainly of the singing of psalms, flourished especially in Syria and at Alexandria. The music was very simple in its character. There was some sort of alternate singing in the worship of Christians, as is described by Pliny. The introduction of antiphonal singing at Antioch is ascribed by tradition to Ignatius ... The primitive church music was choral and congregational." (George Park Fisher, Yale Professor, History of the Christian Church, p. 65, 121)

FULLER "The history of the church during the first three centuries affords many instances of primitive Christians engaging in singing, but no mention, (that I recollect) is made of instruments. (If my memory does not deceive me) it originated in the dark ages of popery, when almost every other superstition was introduced. At present, it is most used and where the least regard is paid to primitive simplicity." (Andrew Fuller, Baptist, Complete works of Andre Fuller, Vol 3, P. 520, 1843)

<font size=4>GARRISON "There is no command in the New Testament, Greek or English, commanding the use of the instrument. Such a command would be entirely out of harmony with the New Testament." (J.H. Garrison, Christian Church) </font>

GIRADEAU "The church, although lapsing more and more into deflection from the truth and into a corrupting of apostolic practice, had not instrumental music for 1200 years (that is, it was not in general use before this time); The Calvinistic Reform Church ejected it from its service as an element of popery, even the church of England having come very nigh its extrusion from her worship. It is heresy in the sphere of worship." (John Giradeau, Presbyterian professor in Columbia Theological Seminary, Instrumental Music, p. 179)

HASTING If instrumental music was not part of early Christian worship, when did it become acceptable? Several reference works will help us see the progression of this practice among churches: "Pope Vitalian introduced an organ in the church in the seventh century to aid the singing but it was opposed and was removed." (James Hasting, Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics.)

HUMPHREYS "One of the features which distinguishes the Christian religion from almost all others is its quietness; it aims to repress the outward signs of inward feeling. Savage instinct, and the religion of Greece also, had employed the rhythmic dance and all kinds of gesticulatory notions to express the inner feelings . . . The early Chrisitians discouraged all outward signs of excitement, and from the very beginning, in the music they used, reproduced the spirit of their religion-an inward quietude. All the music employed in their early services was vocal." (Frank Landon Humphreys, Evolution of Church Music, p. 42)

KILLEN "It is not, therefore, strange that instrumental music was not, heard in their congregational services..... In the early church the whole congregation joined in the singing, but instrumental music did not accompany the praise" (W. D. Killen, The Ancient Church, pp. 193, 423).

<font size=4>KNOX "a kist (chest) of whistles." (John Knox, Presbyterian, in reference to the organ)</font>

KURTZ "At first the church music was simple, artless, recitative. But rivalry of heretics forced the orthodox church to pay greater attention to the requirements of art. Chrysostom had to declaim against the secularization of church music. More lasting was the opposition to the introduction of instrumental music." (John Kurtz, Lutheran Scholar, Church History, Vol 1, p. 376)

LANG "All our sources deal amply with vocal music of the church, but they are chary with mention of any other manifestations of musical art . . . The development of Western music was decisively influenced by the exclusion of musical instruments from the early Christian Church." (Paul Henry Lang, Music in Western Civilization, p. 53-54)

LEICHTENTRITT "The Biblical precept to "sing" the psalms, not merely recite, them, was obeyed literally, as is testified by many statements in the writings of the saints. Pope Leo I, who lived about 450, expressly related that "the Psalms of David arc piously sung everywhere in the Church." Only singing however, and no playing of instruments, was permitted in the early Christian Church. In this respect the Jewish tradition was not continued. In the earlier Jewish temple service many instruments mentioned in-the Bible had been used. But instrumental music had been thoroughly discredited in the meantime by the lascivious Greek and Roman virtuoso music of the later ages, and it appeared unfit for the divine service. The aulos was held in especial abhorrence, whereas some indulgence was granted to the lyre and cithara, permitted by some saints at least for private worship, though not in church services. It is interesting to note that the later Jewish temple service has conformed to the early Christian practice and, contrary to Biblical tradition, has banned all instruments. Orthodox Jewish synagogues now object even to the use of the organ. (Hugo Leichtentritt, Music, History and Ideas, Howard University Press: Cambridge, 1958, p 34)

LONDON (London Encyclopedia says the organ is said to have been first introduced into church music in about 658AD.)

LORENZ "Yet there was little temptation to undue elaboration of hymnody or music. The very spirituality of the new faith made ritual or liturgy superfluous and music almost unnecessary. Singing (there was no instrumental accompaniment) was little more than a means of expressing in a practicable, social way, the common faith and experience. . . . The music was purely vocal. There was no instrumental accompaniment of any kind. . . . It fell under the ban of the Christian church, as did all other instruments, because of its pagan association" (E. S. Lorenz, Church Music, pp. 217, 250, 404)

LUTHER "The organ in the worship Is the insignia of Baal… The Roman Catholic borrowed it from the Jews." (Martin Luther, Mcclintock & Strong's Encyclopedia Volume VI, page 762)

MCCLINTOCK "The general introduction of instrumental music can certainly not be assigned to a date earlier than the 5th and 6th centuries; yea, even Gregory the Great, who towards the end of the 6th century added greatly to the existing church music, absolutely prohibited the use of instruments. Several centuries later the introduction of the organ in sacred service gave the place to instruments as accompaniments for Christian song, and from that time to this they have been freely used with few exceptions. The first organ is believed to have been used in the Church service in the 13th century. Organs were however, in use before this in the theater. They were never regarded with favor in the Eastern Church, and were vehemently opposed in some of the Western churches." (McClintock and Strong, Cyclopaedia of Biblical Literature, Vol 6, p. 759)

MCCLINTOCK Sir John Hawkins, following the Romanish writers in his erudite work on the history of music, made Pope Vitalian, in A.D. 660, the first who introduced organs into the churches. But students of ecclesiastical archaeology are generally agreed that instrumental music was not used in churches till a much later date; for Thomas Aquinas [Catholic Scholar in 1250 A.D.] has these remarkable words, 'Our church does not use musical instruments, as harps and psalteries, to praise God withal, that she may seem not to Judaize.'" (McClintock and Strong, Encyclopedia of Biblical Literature, Vol. 6, Harper and Brothers, New York, 1894, pg. 762.)

MCCLINTOCK "The Greek word 'psallo' is applied among the Greeks of modern times exclusively to sacred music, which in the Eastern Church has never been any other than vocal, instrumental music being unknown in that church, as it was in the primitive church." (McClintock & Strong, Vol. 8, p. 739).

NAUMAN "There can be no doubt that originally the music of the divine service was every where entirely of a vocal nature." (Emil Nauman, The History of Music. Vol. I, p. 177)

NEITHENINGTON (Exclusion of instrumental music from the church of England passed by only one vote in 1562, according to Neithenington's: History Of The Westminster Assembly Of Divines, p. 20)

NEWMAN "In 1699 the Baptists received an invitation from Thomas Clayton, rector of Christ Church, to unite with the Church of England. They replied in a dignified manner, declining to do so unless he could prove, "that the Church of Christ under the New Testament may consist or . . . a mixed multitude and their seed, even all the members of a nation, . . . whether they are godly or ungodly," that "lords, archbishops, etc., . . . are of divine institution and appointment," and that their vestments, liturgical services, use of mechanical instruments, infant baptism, sprinkling, "signing with the cross in baptism," etc., are warranted by Scripture." … "It may be interesting to note that this church (First Baptist Church of Newport, organized in 1644 cf. p. 88) was one of the first to introduce instrumental music. The instrument was a bass viol and caused considerable commotion. This occurred early in the nineteenth century.(Albert Henry Newman, A History of the Baptist Churches in the United States, American Baptist Publication Society 1915, p. 207, 255)

NICETA "It is time to turn to the New Testament to confirm what is said in the Old, and, particularly, to point out that the office of psalmody is not to be considered abolished merely because many other observances of the Old Law have fallen into disuse. Only the corporal institutions have been rejected, like circumcision, the Sabbath, sacrifices, discrimination of foods. So, too, the trumpets, harps, cymbals, and timbrels. For the sound of these we now have a better substitute in the music from the mouths of men. The daily ablutions, the new-moon observances, the careful inspection of leprosy are completely past and gone, along with whatever else was necessary only for a time - as it were, for children." (Niceta, a bishop of Remesian or Yugoslavia)

PAHLEN "These chants - and the word chant (and not music) is used advisedly, for many centuries were to pass before instruments accompanied the sung melodies." (Kurt Pahlen, Music of the World, p. 27)

PAPADOPOULOS "The execution of Byzantine church music by instruments, or even the accompaniment of sacred chanting by instruments, was ruled out by the Eastern Fathers as being incompatible with the pure, solemn, spiritual character of the religion of Christ. The Fathers of the church, in accordance with the example of psalmodizing of our Savior and the ho ly Apostles, established that only vocal music be used in the churches and severely forbade instrumental music as being secular and hedonic, and in general as evoking pleasure without spiritual value" (G. I. Papadopoulos, A Historical Survey of Byzantine Ecclesiastical Music (in Greek), Athens, 1904, pp. 10, II).

POSEY "For years the Baptists fought the introduction of instrumental music into the churches...Installation of the organ brought serious difficulties in many churches" (Wm. B. Posey, Baptist, The Baptist Church In The Lower Mississippi Valley).

PRESBYTERIAN "Question 6. Is there any authority for instrumental music in the worship of God under the present dispensation? Answer. Not the least, only the singing of psalms and hymns and spiritual songs was appointed by the apostles; not a syllable is said in the New Testament in favor of instrumental music nor was it ever introduced into the Church until after the eighth century, after the Catholics had corrupted the simplicity of the gospel by their carnal inventions. It was not allowed in the Synagogues, the parish churches of the Jews, but was confined to the Temple service and was abolished with the rites of that dispensation." (Questions on the Confession of Faith and Form of Government of The Presbyterian Church in the United States of America, published by the Presbyterian Board of Publications, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 1842, pg. 55.)

PRATT "The, First Christian Songs. - Singing in public and private worship was a matter of course for the early Christians. For Jewish converts this was a continuance of synagogue customs, but since the Church grew mostly among non-Jews, the technical forms employed were more Greek than Hebrew. The use of instruments was long resisted, because of their association with pagan sensuality." (Waldo Selden Pratt, The History of Music, 1935, p. 64)

RIDDLE "In the first ages of the Christian church the psalms of David were always chanted or sung. In the Apostolic Constitutions (Book II, P. 57), we find it laid down an a rule that one of those officiating ministers should chant or sing psalms or David, and that the people should join by repeating the ends of the verses. The instruments of music were introduced into the Christians church in the ninth century. There were unknown alike to the early church and to all ancients. The large wind organ was known, however, long before it was introduced into the churches of the west. The first organ used in worship was one which was received by Charlemagne in France as a present from the Emperor Constantine.' (J.E. Riddle, Christian Antiquities, p. 384)

RITTER "We have no real knowledge of the exact character of the music which formed a part of the religious devotion of the first Christian congregations. It was, however purely vocal." (Frederic Louis Ritter, History of Music from the Christian Era to the Present Time, p. 28)

ROBERTSON "The word (psalleto) originally meant to play on a stringed instrument (Sir. 9:4), but it comes to be used also for singing with the voice and heart (Eph. 5:19; 1 Cor. 14:15), making melody with the heart also to the Lord" (A. T. Robertson, Baptist Greek scholar, Baptist Studies in the Nestle James, comment on James 5:13)

SCHAFF "The use of organs in churches is ascribed to Pope Vitalian (657-672). Constantine Copronymos sent an organ with other presents to King Pepin of France in 767. Charlemagne received one as a present from the Caliph Haroun al Rashid, and had it put up in the cathedral of Aixia-Chapelle... The attitude of the churches toward the organ varies. It shared, to some extent, the fate of images, except that it never was an object of worship... The Greek church disapproved the use of organs. The Latin church introduced it pretty generally, but not without the protest of eminent men, so that even in the Council of Trent a motion was made, though not carried, to prohibit the organ at least in the mass." (Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Vol. 4, pg. 439.)

SHAFF "The first organ certainly known to exist and be used in a church was put in the cathedral at Aix-la-chapel by the German emperor, Charlemange, who came to the throne in 768AD. It met with great opposition among the Romanists, especially among the monks, and that it made its was but slowly into common use. So great was the opposition even as late as the 16th century that it would have been abolished by the council of Trent but for the influence of the Emperor Ferdinand…. In the Greek church the organ never came into use... The Reform church discarded it; and though the church of Basel very early introduced it, it was in other places admitted only sparingly and after long hesitation." (Shaff-Herzog Encyclopedia, Vol 2, p. 1702)

SCHAFF "It is questionable whether, as used in the New Testament, 'psallo' means more than to sing . . . The absence of instrumental music from the church for some centuries after the apostles and the sentiment regarding it which pervades the writing, the fathers are unaccountable, if in the apostolic church such music was used" (Schaff-Herzog, Vol. 3, p. 961).

SCHAFF "In the Greek church the organ never came into use. But after the 8th century it became more and more common in the Latin church; not without opposition from the side of the monks." (Schaff-Herzogg Encyclopedia, Vol 10, p. 657-658)

SHAFF (new) "The custom of organ accompaniment did not become general among Protestants until the eighteenth century." (The New Shaff-Herzogg Encyclopedia, 1953, Vol 10, p. 257)

SPURGEON "Praise the Lord with the harp. Israel was at school, and used childish things to help her to learn; but in these days when Jesus gives us spiritual food, one can make melody without strings and pipes. We do not need them. They would hinder rather than help our praise. Sing unto him. This is the sweetest and best music. No instrument like the human voice." (Commentary on Psalms 42:4) "David appears to have had a peculiarly tender remembrance of the singing of the pilgrims, and assuredly it is the most delightful part of worship and that which comes nearest to the adoration of heaven. What a degradation to supplant the intelligent song of the whole congregation by the theatrical prettiness of a quartet, bellows, and pipes! We might as well pray by machinery as praise by it." (Spurgeon preached to 20,000 people every Sunday for 20 years in the Metropolitan Baptist Tabernacle and never were mechanical instruments of music used in his services. When asked why, he quoted 1st Corinthians 14:15. "I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the understanding also; I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also." He then declared: "I would as soon pray to God with machinery as to sing to God with machinery." (Charles H. Spurgeon, Baptist)

SPURGEON "David appears to have had a peculiarly tender remembrance of the singing of the pilgrims, and assuredly it is the most delightful part of worship and that which comes nearest to the adoration of heaven. What a degradation to supplant the intelligent song of the whole congregation by the theatrical prettiness of a quartet, bellows, and pipes. We might as well pray by machinery as praise by it...
'Praise the Lord with harp.' Israel was at school, and used childish things to help her to learn; but in these days when Jesus gives us spiritual food, one can make melody without strings and pipes... We do not need them. That would hinder rather than help our praise. Sing unto him. This is the sweetest and best music. No instrument is like the human voice." (Charles Spurgeon (Baptist), Commentary on Psalm 42.)

TAPPER "Both sexes joined in singing, but instruments of every kind were prohibited for along time" (Thomas Tapper, Essentials of Music History, p. 34)

THEODORET "107. Question: If songs were invented by unbelievers to seduce men, but were allowed to those under the law on account of their childish state, why do those who have received the perfect teaching of grace in their churches still use songs, just like the children under the law? Answer: It is not simple singing that belongs to the childish state, but singing with lifeless instruments, with dancing, and with clappers. Hence the use of such instruments and the others that belong to the childish state is excluded from the singing in the churches, and simple singing is left." (Theodoret, a bishop of Cyrhus in Syria, Questions and Answers for the Orthodox)

WELIESZ "So far as we can tell the music of the early Church was almost entirely vocal, Christian usage following in this particular the practice of the Synagogue, in part for the same reasons." (New Oxford History of Music, Vol 1, Egon Weliesz, 1957, p. 30)

WESLEY 'I have no objection to instruments of music in our worship, provided they are neither seen nor heard." (John Wesley, founder of Methodism, quoted in Adam Clarke's Commentary, Vol. 4, p. 685)</font>

___________________________

[To be continued…]
Quote
Share

Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

December 12th, 2006, 5:26 am #22


<font size=3>Source: http://www.bible.ca/H-music.htm </font>

_______________________________


<font color=red size=5 face=times new roman> RESTORATION LEADERS:</font>


<font color=black size=4 face=times new roman>CAMPBELL "[Instrumental music in worship] was well adapted to churches founded on the Jewish pattern of things and practicing infant sprinkling. That all persons singing who have no spiritual discernment, taste or relish for spiritual meditation, consolations and sympathies of renewed hearts should call for such an aid is but natural. So to those who have no real devotion and spirituality in them, and whose animal nature flags under the opposition or the oppression of church service I think that instrumental music would... be an essential prerequisite to fire up their souls to even animal devotion. But I presume, that to all spiritually-minded Christians, such aid would be as a cow bell in a concert." (Alexander Campbell, recorded in Robert Richardson's biography, Memoirs of Alexander Campbell, Vol. 2., p366)</font>

<font color=black size=3 face=times new roman>FRANKLIN "If any one had told us, 40 years ago, that we would live to see the day where those professing to be Christians who claim the Holy Scriptures as their only rule of faith and practice, those under the command, and who profess to appreciate the meaning of the command to 'observe whatsoever I have commanded you' would bring instruments of music into a worshipping assembly and use it there in worship, we should have repelled the idea as an idle dream. But this only shows how little we knew of what men would do; or how little we saw of the power of the adversary to subvert the purest principles, to deceive the hearts of the simple, to undermine the very foundation of all piety, and turn the very worship of God itself into an attraction for the people of the world and entertainment, or amusement." (Benjamin Franklin, Gospel Preacher, Vol 2, p. 411, 419-429)

FRANKLIN "Instrumental music is permissible for a church under the following conditions: 1. When a church never had or has lost the Spirit of Christ. 2. If a church has a preacher who never had or has lost the Spirit of Christ, who has become a dry, prosing and lifeless preacher. 3. If a church only intends being a fashionable society, a mere place of amusements and secular entertainment and abandoning the idea of religion and worship. 4. If a church has within it a large number of dishonest and corrupt men. 5. If a church has given up all idea of trying to convert the world." (Ben Franklin, editor of American Christian Review, 1860.)

LIPSCOMB "Neither he [Paul] nor any other apostle, nor the Lord Jesus, nor any of the disciples for five hundred years, used instruments. This too, in the face of the fact that the Jews had used instruments in the days of their prosperity and that the Greeks and heathen nations all used them in their worship. They were dropped out with such emphasis that they were not taken up till the middle of the Dark Ages, and came in as part of the order of the Roman Catholic Church. It seems there cannot be doubt but that the use of instrumental music in connection with the worship of God, whether used as a part of the worship or as an attraction accompaniment, is unauthorized by God and violates the oft-repeated prohibition to add nothing to, take nothing from, the commandments of the Lord. It destroys the difference between the clean and the unclean, the holy and unholy, counts the blood of the Son of God unclean, and tramples under foot the authority of the Son of God. They have not been authorized by God or sanctified with the blood of his Son." (David Lipscomb, Queries and Answers by David Lipscomb p. 226-227, and Gospel Advocate, 1899, p. 376-377)

MCGARVEY "And if any man who is a preacher believes that the apostle teaches the use of instrumental music in the church by enjoining the singing of psalms, he is one of those smatters in Greek who can believe anything that he wishes to believe. When the wish is father to the thought, correct exegesis is like water on a duck's back" (J. W. McGarvey, Biblical Criticism, p. 116).

MCGARVEY "We cannot, therefore, by any possibility, know that a certain element of worship is acceptable to God in the Christian dispensation, when the Scriptures which speak of that dispensation are silent in reference to it. To introduce any such element is unscriptural and presumptuous. It is will worship, if any such thing as will worship can exist. On this ground we condemn the burning of incense, the lighting of candles, the wearing of priestly robes, and the reading of printed prayers. On the same ground we condemn instrumental music." (J.W. McGarvey, The Millennial Harbinger, 1864, pp. 511-513.)

MCGARVEY "It is manifest that we cannot adopt the practice with out abandoning the obvious and only ground On Which a restoration of Primitive Christianity can be accomplished, or on which the plea for it can be maintained. Such is my profound conviction, and consequently, the question with me is not one concerning the choice or rejection of an expedient, but the maintenance or abandonment of a fundamental and necessary principle." (J. W. McGarvey, Apostolic Timer 1881, and What Shall We Do About the Organ? p. 4, 10)

MILLIGAN "The tendency of instrumental music is, t in , to divert the minds of many from the sentiment of the song to the mere sound of the organ, and in this way it often serves to promote formalism in Churches" (Robert Milligan, Scheme of Redemption, p. 386).

PINKERTON "So far as known to me, or I presume to you, I am the only 'preacher' in Kentucky of our brotherhood who has publicly advocated the propriety of employing instrumental music in some churches, and that the church of God in Midway is the only church that has yet made a decided effort to introduce it" (L. L. Pinkerton, American Christian Review, 1860, as quoted by Cecil Willis in W. W. Otey: Contender for the Faith).

STONE "We have just received an extraordinary account of about 30,000 Methodists in England, withdrawing from that church and connexion, because the Conference disapproved of the introduction of instrumental music to the churches. The full account shall appear in our next. To us, backwoods Americans, this conduct of those seceders appears be the extreme of folly, and it argues that they have a greater taste for music, than they have for religion. Editor." (Barton Stone, Christian Messenger, vol. 3, No. 2, Dec. 1828, p. 48 in bound volume)

WEST "Apostasy in music among 19th century churches that had endeavored to restore New Testament authority in worship and work began, in the main, following the Civil War' In 1868, Ben Franklin guessed that there were ten thousand congregations an not over fifty had used an instrument in worship." (Earl West, Search for the Ancient Order, Vol. 2, pp. 80, 81) </font>

_______________________________
Quote
Share

Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

December 12th, 2006, 1:41 pm #23

Bill:
Funny part about all of this...you guys have one Ken Sublett who posts quite regular and who does NOT even believe that "SING" means to make music.
You do know that, right Bill?
You and others here Bill prefer acapella music. You consider Ken as a legitimate authority on music history. HOWEVER, you ignore him when he says that you and the crew here are WRONG even to make music by singing.
You do realize how ridiculous that looks, right?
Servant demanded that we prove that early Christians did NOT use musical instruments in their worship. Between Donnie and me, we cited numerous references from early church fathers, church historians, and church scholars, all of whom attest that the early Christians did NOT use IM in their worship. Yet as I could have predicted, Servant still denies this fact and further decides to bash Ken Sublett. Servant knows that he has no legitimate argument upon which to stand, so he uses a diversionary tactic of switching the subject.

As I recall, Servant accused me of using this tactic when he initially issued his challenge: "This should be good....maybe like sidestepping the truth or using a tangent to go off on another subject."

Quote
Share

Chris
Chris

December 14th, 2006, 6:01 pm #24

<font size=3>Source: http://www.bible.ca/H-music.htm </font>

_______________________________


<font color=red size=5 face=times new roman> RESTORATION LEADERS:</font>


<font color=black size=4 face=times new roman>CAMPBELL "[Instrumental music in worship] was well adapted to churches founded on the Jewish pattern of things and practicing infant sprinkling. That all persons singing who have no spiritual discernment, taste or relish for spiritual meditation, consolations and sympathies of renewed hearts should call for such an aid is but natural. So to those who have no real devotion and spirituality in them, and whose animal nature flags under the opposition or the oppression of church service I think that instrumental music would... be an essential prerequisite to fire up their souls to even animal devotion. But I presume, that to all spiritually-minded Christians, such aid would be as a cow bell in a concert." (Alexander Campbell, recorded in Robert Richardson's biography, Memoirs of Alexander Campbell, Vol. 2., p366)</font>

<font color=black size=3 face=times new roman>FRANKLIN "If any one had told us, 40 years ago, that we would live to see the day where those professing to be Christians who claim the Holy Scriptures as their only rule of faith and practice, those under the command, and who profess to appreciate the meaning of the command to 'observe whatsoever I have commanded you' would bring instruments of music into a worshipping assembly and use it there in worship, we should have repelled the idea as an idle dream. But this only shows how little we knew of what men would do; or how little we saw of the power of the adversary to subvert the purest principles, to deceive the hearts of the simple, to undermine the very foundation of all piety, and turn the very worship of God itself into an attraction for the people of the world and entertainment, or amusement." (Benjamin Franklin, Gospel Preacher, Vol 2, p. 411, 419-429)

FRANKLIN "Instrumental music is permissible for a church under the following conditions: 1. When a church never had or has lost the Spirit of Christ. 2. If a church has a preacher who never had or has lost the Spirit of Christ, who has become a dry, prosing and lifeless preacher. 3. If a church only intends being a fashionable society, a mere place of amusements and secular entertainment and abandoning the idea of religion and worship. 4. If a church has within it a large number of dishonest and corrupt men. 5. If a church has given up all idea of trying to convert the world." (Ben Franklin, editor of American Christian Review, 1860.)

LIPSCOMB "Neither he [Paul] nor any other apostle, nor the Lord Jesus, nor any of the disciples for five hundred years, used instruments. This too, in the face of the fact that the Jews had used instruments in the days of their prosperity and that the Greeks and heathen nations all used them in their worship. They were dropped out with such emphasis that they were not taken up till the middle of the Dark Ages, and came in as part of the order of the Roman Catholic Church. It seems there cannot be doubt but that the use of instrumental music in connection with the worship of God, whether used as a part of the worship or as an attraction accompaniment, is unauthorized by God and violates the oft-repeated prohibition to add nothing to, take nothing from, the commandments of the Lord. It destroys the difference between the clean and the unclean, the holy and unholy, counts the blood of the Son of God unclean, and tramples under foot the authority of the Son of God. They have not been authorized by God or sanctified with the blood of his Son." (David Lipscomb, Queries and Answers by David Lipscomb p. 226-227, and Gospel Advocate, 1899, p. 376-377)

MCGARVEY "And if any man who is a preacher believes that the apostle teaches the use of instrumental music in the church by enjoining the singing of psalms, he is one of those smatters in Greek who can believe anything that he wishes to believe. When the wish is father to the thought, correct exegesis is like water on a duck's back" (J. W. McGarvey, Biblical Criticism, p. 116).

MCGARVEY "We cannot, therefore, by any possibility, know that a certain element of worship is acceptable to God in the Christian dispensation, when the Scriptures which speak of that dispensation are silent in reference to it. To introduce any such element is unscriptural and presumptuous. It is will worship, if any such thing as will worship can exist. On this ground we condemn the burning of incense, the lighting of candles, the wearing of priestly robes, and the reading of printed prayers. On the same ground we condemn instrumental music." (J.W. McGarvey, The Millennial Harbinger, 1864, pp. 511-513.)

MCGARVEY "It is manifest that we cannot adopt the practice with out abandoning the obvious and only ground On Which a restoration of Primitive Christianity can be accomplished, or on which the plea for it can be maintained. Such is my profound conviction, and consequently, the question with me is not one concerning the choice or rejection of an expedient, but the maintenance or abandonment of a fundamental and necessary principle." (J. W. McGarvey, Apostolic Timer 1881, and What Shall We Do About the Organ? p. 4, 10)

MILLIGAN "The tendency of instrumental music is, t in , to divert the minds of many from the sentiment of the song to the mere sound of the organ, and in this way it often serves to promote formalism in Churches" (Robert Milligan, Scheme of Redemption, p. 386).

PINKERTON "So far as known to me, or I presume to you, I am the only 'preacher' in Kentucky of our brotherhood who has publicly advocated the propriety of employing instrumental music in some churches, and that the church of God in Midway is the only church that has yet made a decided effort to introduce it" (L. L. Pinkerton, American Christian Review, 1860, as quoted by Cecil Willis in W. W. Otey: Contender for the Faith).

STONE "We have just received an extraordinary account of about 30,000 Methodists in England, withdrawing from that church and connexion, because the Conference disapproved of the introduction of instrumental music to the churches. The full account shall appear in our next. To us, backwoods Americans, this conduct of those seceders appears be the extreme of folly, and it argues that they have a greater taste for music, than they have for religion. Editor." (Barton Stone, Christian Messenger, vol. 3, No. 2, Dec. 1828, p. 48 in bound volume)

WEST "Apostasy in music among 19th century churches that had endeavored to restore New Testament authority in worship and work began, in the main, following the Civil War' In 1868, Ben Franklin guessed that there were ten thousand congregations an not over fifty had used an instrument in worship." (Earl West, Search for the Ancient Order, Vol. 2, pp. 80, 81) </font>

_______________________________
Donnie, Bill Crump and others...

Let me preface my comments with the following: I am, and have always been, one who believes in acappela worship... I have believed such based on the following arguments: [1] silence of scripture, and [2] historical evidence... However, I am ashamed to say that I have never researched the historical evidence on my own, I have simply relied on the "thus sayeth the scholars" comments that I have always heard... For one, I appreciate your posting all the above quotes for our consideration... However, I do have a question, and would appreciate some clarification regarding something I noticed in those comments...

First, according to the following quotes, it appears that the early church did not use instruments in worship to God because they didn't want to resemble the Jewish or heathen people around them, not because of apostolic command or example from Christ... Would you agree with that assessment????

AQUINAS "Our church does not use musical instruments, as harps and psalteries, to praise God withal, that she may not seem to Judaize." (Thomas Aquinas, Bingham's Antiquities, Vol. 3, page 137)

AUGUSTINE "musical instruments were not used. The pipe, tabret, and harp here associate so intimately with the sensual heathen cults, as well as with the wild revelries and shameless performances of the degenerate theater and circus, it is easy to understand the prejudices against their use in the worship." (Augustine 354 A.D., describing the singing at Alexandria under Athanasius)

Second, if that is the case, would that mean that instruments of music should be considered a matter of opinion or preference???

Please understand, I don't like the use of such in worship... I do not advocate it, but I want to be honest in my understand and application of scripture... I look forward to your replies...
Quote
Share

Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

December 15th, 2006, 4:38 am #25

They would APPEAR just like the pagans. Pretty good reason?

They would APPEAR just like the theater. Good?

They Woudl appear like the Jews. Didn't Paul warn about that.

The Catholics said that they ADDED music because it was COMMON TO ALL PAGAN CULTS. However, the Catholics neverr SANG with INSTRUMENTAL accompaniment.

However, none of these quoted men just WOKE UP and deciaded "We will not use instrumetns to keep from looking like a theater or pagans." It simply would never occur to anyone who understood the meaning of ekklesia or synagogue or school of the Bible to, in their wildest, think of BEGINNING to paganize or Judaize.

Alexander Campbell wrote little about Instrumental music because the unthinkable happened and no one was prepared for it. I haven't diatribed about belly dancing on the communion table because only NOW do I wake up and say that it COULD happen.

We were and children ARE abused children and even adults by men trained as New Testament Preachers which meant that they had a stack of sermon outlines and never understood the universal association of MUSIC and telling God to SHUT YOUR MOUTH. Sure,, there are direct commands NOT to blow instruments and "make a joyful noise before the Lord" when the qahal, synagogue or church in the wilderness was commanded to hold Holy Convocations to REST (Sabbath does not mean Saturday), READ and Rehears. That is what Simeon told the collected body to explain to the Gentiles that they should observe proper morality: they were familira with the standards of the Law because:

Moses was PREACHED every sabbath
Being READ in the synangogues.

That was the EXAMPLE of Jesus, the direct command of Paul, his own practice when he SYNAGOGUED out on mission, his direct command to Timothy and the universal practice of the historic church. You don't need room for opinions when the ONLY PURPOSE of church is A SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE or the Campbells restored THE SCHOOL OF CHRIST. There is nothing youu can do to ENHANCE that which is written and Paul and Peter marks false teachers as those elders who do NOT "teach that which has been taught."

You only need NEW OPINIONS when those Paul called ROBBERS take over the body and make it SOMETHING OTHER than commanded, exampled and inferenced.

The Richland Hills man SHOUTS violently AGAINST anti-instrumentalists and lies about EVERY passage in the Bible because he has NO CLUE to the history of the Old Testament or the CONTEXT of the events out of which he is PLUCKING his "paraphrased statements' when the CONTEXTS all prove that Music was violently opposed by all of the PROPHETS while the PRIESTS were operatives of the Civil- GENTIL-LIKE Monarchy to which god ABANDONED them because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai.
Quote
Share

Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

December 15th, 2006, 4:54 pm #26

Donnie, Bill Crump and others...

Let me preface my comments with the following: I am, and have always been, one who believes in acappela worship... I have believed such based on the following arguments: [1] silence of scripture, and [2] historical evidence... However, I am ashamed to say that I have never researched the historical evidence on my own, I have simply relied on the "thus sayeth the scholars" comments that I have always heard... For one, I appreciate your posting all the above quotes for our consideration... However, I do have a question, and would appreciate some clarification regarding something I noticed in those comments...

First, according to the following quotes, it appears that the early church did not use instruments in worship to God because they didn't want to resemble the Jewish or heathen people around them, not because of apostolic command or example from Christ... Would you agree with that assessment????

AQUINAS "Our church does not use musical instruments, as harps and psalteries, to praise God withal, that she may not seem to Judaize." (Thomas Aquinas, Bingham's Antiquities, Vol. 3, page 137)

AUGUSTINE "musical instruments were not used. The pipe, tabret, and harp here associate so intimately with the sensual heathen cults, as well as with the wild revelries and shameless performances of the degenerate theater and circus, it is easy to understand the prejudices against their use in the worship." (Augustine 354 A.D., describing the singing at Alexandria under Athanasius)

Second, if that is the case, would that mean that instruments of music should be considered a matter of opinion or preference???

Please understand, I don't like the use of such in worship... I do not advocate it, but I want to be honest in my understand and application of scripture... I look forward to your replies...
For whatever additional reasons the early Christians may have had for not using IM in worship, such as to avoid appearing like the Jews, pagans, and the theater, let’s give them some credit for first following apostolic example by not going beyond the things that were written in the New Covenant, as Paul warned in 1 Corinthians 4:6. Since the New Covenant or Testament specified only vocal music in Eph. 5:19 and Col. 3:16, there was no need to address IM. The early Christians knew not to add IM, because to do so would have been to go beyond what was written. On the other hand, had the NT only said to “make music in worship,” then we would have been free to use IM, because of the lack of specificity. Detractors of churches of Christ perpetually accuse us of rejecting IM simply out of preference. Those detractors make such accusations because they reject obedience to New Testament directives and because they are ignorant of Church history. The latter has shown that it was the scripturally obtuse who supplanted and polluted the New Testament Scriptures with their man-contrived doctrines, who ultimately stepped in and added their preferences for IM and other scripturally unauthorized practices.

Quote
Share

Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

December 16th, 2006, 3:29 pm #27

Servant writes: "God commands us to sing. Does He tell us how to sing? NO!"

Jimmy replies: Servant this is one reason that I hope you did not succeed in you run for elder at your church. Not only does God tell us how to sing in the New Testament but God also tells us what to sing!

Read the Scriptures again. Paul writes: "...I will sing with the Spirit and I will sing with the understanding." (1 Cor. 14:15) Paul writes of our singing as being "teaching and admonishing" to one another. Paul said that the lyrics we speak are to be from God, Himself, when he writes that psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs are to be our only teaching and admonishing tools durning this time of praise.

There is no entertaintment mentioned; There are no chosen voices; all are to speak/sing/teach/admonish one another with the Word of God.

Of all the Churches of Christ mentioned in the Bible, none are mentioned in regard to having "great singing." Churches are mentioned for their elders, their deacons, their works, their members but not for their great singing. Great singing, as used by some modern churches, is of recent orgin, i.e. within the last several hundred years.

The Scripture that makes mentions of Paul and Silas sanging praises at midnight and the prisoners heard them has great meaning to it. The meaning being that the prisoners were taught of God! The prisoners were admonished of God! In fact when the gates were opened the prisoners did not even try to leave the unattended prison! Why do you suppose that none of the prisoners left? "All of the doors were opened! Everyone's bands was loosed!"(Acts 16:26) Yet no one left! No, not one! This may be attributed to the teachings of Paul and Silas in the songs they sang. The Bible says that every one heard Paul and Silas.

Servant, if you would do a study of "singing schools" in American towns, you will find they originated in dance halls and beer joints, not in churches. Yet it is churches that promote them today!

In Christ,
Jimmy
Anything that YOU can do to another to CAUSE mental arousal, which is ANXIETY, is defined as ENCHANTMENT (Lucifer the singing and harp-playing prostitute, or the serpent meaning Musical Enchanter) or SORCERY by John in Revelaation 18 by the speakers, singers and musicians ruled by the Mother of Harlots. Jesus points to the mouth religionists specificially speakers, singers and musicians as EXAMPLES of Hypocrites. The Greek word HYPOCRITE firstly identifies RHETORICIANS who wreck the most spirits and anyone who PERFORMS in singing, acting, instruments or dancing: The Greek word MUSIC almost demands DANCING.

The GOSPEL is "come to me all ye that labor and are heave laden and I will give you REST." The laded burden is "spiritual anxiety created by religious rituals." Paul outlawed the SELF-PLEASING in Romans 15 which is defined as "creation of mental excitement." The WEAPONS of all of those practicing SORCERY were MUSICAL. That is why one hebrew word defines WEAPON and also PSALTERY. In Greek one concept defnes Carnal Weapons and Lifeless Instruments. Music ALWAYS intends to work some UNDUE influence on the emotion and spirit of another and USUALLY for money: that is why MUSICIAN parses to PROSTITUTE in all ages.

The KEY is Simple Simon Sez: You CANNOT give heed (Paul's only worship concept) to Jesus and HIS word while you are getting arroused by a HYPOCRITE inducing spiritual anxiety so that you are FORCED to give heed to HIS / HERS / ITS words and BODY WORSHIP. That feeling is an UNholy spirit.

<font color=purple>WHAT IS THE CLEAR STATEMENT OF SCRIPTURE AGREEING WITH ALL KNOWN EVIDENCE?</font>

The Bible identifies MUSIC as the WEAPON of Lucifer--the singing and harp playing prostitute--to keep people FROM giving HEED (Paul's only worship word) to the Word of God WITHOUT human mediators.

The Bible and the literature identifies music as the art of the SORCERER/S. "Don't get drunk on wine" is always seen in the Greek resources as "getting FLUTED" or "PIPED down with wine." Music was always co PARTNER with wine drinking. Therefore, Paul OUTLAWED it in using the word SPEAK or PREACH or TEACH and not MAKE MUSIC.

Church scholars had not THOUGHT of using music in the Ekklesia or church because they knew that its EFFECTS--whatever its motives--was SORCERY or witchcraft. The Familiar Spirit of the Witch of Endor was an echoing Empty Wineskin.
  • <font color=blue>Rev 18:14 And the fruits (fruits is fruits, says Amos about music) that thy soul LUSTED after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

    Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
    Rev 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying,
    Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.</font>
Cast or thrown down is the word which defines Jesus casting out the MUSICAL MINSTRELS using a word meaning LIKE DUNG. It is the same as the Hebrew which defines "Lucifer CAST AS PROFANE out of heaven." It can mean "play the flute, pollute or prostitute." It iis never used meaning WORSHIP.
  • <font color=blue>Rev 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians [Apollyon's muses or locusts] and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, [theater builders and stage managers] of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone [called a pipe, made a wistling sound to attract] shall be heard no more at all in thee;

    Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.</font>
No one in church history could misunderstand that fact.

Because the church fathers--the Sectarians repudiate with all history--could read Revelation 18, the rest of the Bible and the universal understanding that MUSIC was a way to fondly people's private parts and cause them to react in a certain way, we hear one testimony which--with all of the rest--proves that the church did not reject instruments because they were "ignorant, southern red-necks" as the false teachers love to claim:

Aphrahat 4th century

http://www.piney.com/FathAphrahatDemon.html#Now
  • <font color=blue>19. Now thus is faith; when a man believes in God the Lord of all, Who made the heavens and the earth and the seas and all that is in them; and He made Adam in His image; and He gave the Law to Moses; He sent of His Spirit upon the prophets; He sent moreover His Christ into the world.

    Furthermore that a man should believe in the resurrection of the dead; and should furthermore also believe in the sacrament of baptism.
    This is the faith of the Church of God. And (it is necessary) that a man should separate himself
    from the observance of hours and Sabbaths and moons and seasons,
    and divinations and SORCERIES and Chaldaean arts and magic, </font>

    Musica and Magica and Exegetice are related words: that is why Peter outlawed private interpretation or further expounding which is the MARK of a false teacher. That seem to fit?

    <font color=blue>from fornication and from festive music, from vain doctrines,
    which are instruments of the Evil One,

    from the blandishment of honeyed words, from blasphemy and from adultery.

    And that a man should not bear false witness, and that a man should not speak with double tongue. These then are the works of the faith which is based on the true Stone which is Christ, on Whom the whole building is reared up.</font>
You will notice that he understood what EVERYONE understood: arousal music is associated with blasphemy and fornication. In the same way, Paul associated "URGED" giving--even for the destitute--with fornication.
Aphrahat arees with the Bible and will also tell you that religious music comes from Satan. Of course, most music is used to seduce people out of theri money with no lasting benefit. That is why musicians were called parasites.

<font color=red>Tom Burgess and ALL of the musicators appeal to Plutarch on Pericles for authority.</font>

<font color=blue>Plutarch, Lives Pericles

IV. His teacher in music, most writers state, was Damon (whose name, they say, should be pronounced with the first syllable short); but Aristotle says he had a thorough MUSICAL training at the hands of Pythocleides.

Now Damon seems to have been a consummate SOPHIST,

DAMON
"Rise, Lucifer, and, heralding the light,
bring in the genial day, while I make moan
fooled by vain passion for a faithless bride,
for Nysa, and with this my dying breath
call on the gods, though little it bestead--
the gods who heard her vows and heeded not.
'Begin, my flute, with me Maenalian lays.'</font>
  • <font color=purple>Lucifer or Phosphorus "the bringer of light"). The name of the planet Venus, when seen in the morning before sunrise. The same planet was called Hesperus, Vesperugo, Vesper, Noctifer, or Nocturnus, when it appeared in the heavens after sunset. Lucifer as a personification is called a son of Astraeus and Aurora or Eos, of Cephalus and Eos, or of Atlas By Philonis he is said to have been the father of Ceyx. He is also called the father of Daedalion and of the Hesperides. Lucifer is also a surname of several goddesses of light, as Artemis, Aurora, and Hecaté. [Also ZOE]</font>
<font color=blue>but to have taken REFUGE behind the name of MUSIC
in order to CONCEAL from the multitude his REAL power,
and he associated with Pericles, that political athlete,
as it were, in the capacity of RUBBER and TRAINER.
[2] However, Damon was not left unmolested in this use of his LYRE as a SCREEN,
but was ostracized for being a great SCHEMER and a friend of TYRANNY,
and became a BUTT of the comic poets.</font>

Damon taught and Plato recorded: "When the MUSIC CHANGES it is a sign that the LAWS ARE CHANGING. At FIRST music must be introduced as ENTERTAINMENT" because everyone KNOWS that if you tried to SUBVERT the church without using Musical Worship Concepts they would get fired.
Why would those using RACA words against those who repudiate EFFEMINATE so-called worship CHOOSE all of those "fellas" and their ACTIVITY to prove THEIR authority to USE music and musicians? Are they hiding?
Quote
Share

Jimmy Wren
Jimmy Wren

December 20th, 2006, 6:20 pm #28

This has been a very enlighting thread. With all of the wonderful references posted by Donnie and Dr. Crump; the good lessons by piney.

I would like for Servant to challenge some of the references cited on this thread. I find it odd for a person to just "brush" these references under the rug and not respond to them.

As to piney not believing in singing, servant is just not reading piney's post! Piney has written it often, just as it is stated in the Word of God, "Speaking to yourselves...." The melody and the music is to be in the "speaker's" heart.

The Scripture's say, "Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;" Ephesians 5:19. One part of this verse belongs to the congregation and the other part belongs to God. The "speaking" of the hymns, psalms, and spiritual songs is for the congregation but that which is in the heart is for God. The "speaking" is heard by those around you but that which is in the heart, i.e., the singing and making melody, is the praise offered to God. No one else can "speak" for you and no one else can "praise" God for you. All of the "praise teams" and "praise ministers" in this world cannot praise God for you!!!!

There are some folks today, such as Servant, who had just as soon forget the "speaking" and the "heart - where the music and melody" is to be made. They want the "music and melody" to be made through the microphones! In fact, more money and time is spent on the "music and Melody," in churches that have a praise minister and praise teams then is spent on local evanglism.

Just check your church's budget. At this time of year most all of the churches are presenting the budget for 2007. Notice how much money goes to the praise minister, the praise teams, supplies and literature for praise, recording equipment, blank CD's, computers and internet ISP's, trips to perform at locations other then the church. All of this money taken from the church's treasury and given to the newly created church robber's who have labeled themselves as the "Praise Institute for the brotherhood of believer's." All an institute does is steal the money from the destitute, i.e., institutes with anything to do with religion.

This is the church that servant has helped to create and promote.

Servant on another thread you wrote that Donnie, Dr. Crump, and Jimmy don't like you. This is not true. I don't see you as an unlikeable person. I don't consider you to not be a Christian. I do consider you to be in error on some of your teachings, thus the reason I am glad that you are not an elder. Music is one of those teachings. I have not and will not challenge you as a brother but I do and will challenge your teachings.

Servant, I hope you will now address some of the references posted by Donnie and Dr. Crump.

In Christ,
Jimmy

Quote
Share

Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

December 21st, 2006, 6:56 am #29

Jimmy,

Earlier, I had challenged Servant to produce historical evidence that the early Christians DID use IM in their worship, as Servant seemed to believe. His response implied that he could not produce such evidence, but then he proceeded to deny the evidence we had presented that early Christians did NOT use IM in their worship. So what does that tell you?
Quote
Share

Servant
Servant

December 22nd, 2006, 5:44 pm #30

Yet, there are some who reject both the seventh and tenth century dates and place the introduction of the instrument as far back as the third, fourth, or fifth century. Though this would be too early a date for the organ, it is argued that the lute and/or lyre were used in the worship.

To support this claim an appeal is made to Clement of Alexander. He wrote around 200 A.D. He said, "And even if you wish to sing and play to the harp or lyre, there is no blame."


When Was The Instrument Of Music First Introduced Into Christian Worship?

Brooks Cochran
Memphis, Tennessee

you know the crazy thing about it is....there are those who want to say, to this day, that Clemente wasn't speaking of the worship service, but probably a feast or festival.

NO BLAME gents....NONE
straight from the mouth of Clemente himself.
This is a repost....since Donnie and others love to use Clement, and SINCE you didn't give a response to this. I didn't think you would, because it negates MOST of your unhistorical claims that instruments were not used in the first century church. I see many many claims from those that did not PREFER it, but not one shred of evidence that instrumental music did/did not exist.

Thank you guys, and I mean it...from the bottom of my heart.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yet, there are some who reject both the seventh and tenth century dates and place the introduction of the instrument as far back as the third, fourth, or fifth century. Though this would be too early a date for the organ, it is argued that the lute and/or lyre were used in the worship.

To support this claim an appeal is made to Clement of Alexander. He wrote around 200 A.D. He said, "And even if you wish to sing and play to the harp or lyre, there is no blame."


When Was The Instrument Of Music First Introduced Into Christian Worship?

Brooks Cochran
Memphis, Tennessee

you know the crazy thing about it is....there are those who want to say, to this day, that Clemente wasn't speaking of the worship service, but probably a feast or festival.

NO BLAME gents....NONE
straight from the mouth of Clemente himself.
Quote
Share