Questions for the Church of Christ.

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 24th, 2011, 11:31 pm #1

The ANTI-church "Answering the Church of Christ" recommends a Roman Catholic site which. Since the Progressive Church of Christ makes the same false charges as the Catholic Church, we will look at this Catholic page.

Questions for the Church of Christ-Faith Facts

http://www.piney.com/Questions.for.the. ... Facts.html

Last edited by Ken.Sublett on October 25th, 2011, 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 25th, 2011, 4:10 pm #2

Augustine on the Trinity: A Summary

http://www.piney.com/Trinity.Augustine.html
Faith Facts: The Holy Spirit

Faith Facts: 1. Hughes in his book says that many young people within the church of Christ think their traditional view of the Holy Spirit is "Lashing the Spirit of God to an objective book of paper and inkor, indeed, circumscribing the Spirit with any kind of rational constraintsultimately impoverished the soul and drained life of its meaning." Does this charge concern you?


Consistently with the definition of "spirit," the clear statements by Jesus Christ and classical trinitarians churches of Christ students do not believe that the spirit OF John Doe is another person (people). The "personal' Holy Spirit is Jesus of Nazareth in His post-resurrected and post--glorified state. He said that His words were spirit. That is not another person but the Mind of Christ. Disciples understand that the Mind of Christ is revealed in the Bible: you cannot be a Bible-based disciple and feel the need to go beyond "that which is written for our learning." Those who claim to read "beyond the sacred pages" prove that they cannot read what is within the sacred pages.

Jesus said that "doctors of the law take away the key to knowledge." He named thes Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites. In the Ezekiel 33 model Christ in Spirit named preachers, singers and instrument players. THE primary meaning of a hypocrite is a rhetorician. That especially applies when the preacher goes beyond "that which is written for our learning."

That is a fact because Hughes etal SAY (and say and say and say) that's what we USED to beleive "but now we are educated." The Church of Christ has the same view of the spirit OF Christ as all of the Bible and historic Church Fathers. Anyone who went through preopsitional phrases 101a understands that the spirit OF a person is the person's own spirit or mind or mental disposition. When the foolish people thought that Jesus was speaking of eating His fleshand Drinking His blood he was just fooling the foolish where the Khana-Baal or the Priests of Baal in all paganism were cannibals:

.....It is the SPIRIT that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
the WORDS that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63


Christ the Spirit put the same message into Isaiah to draw a parallelism between God's Word and God''s Spirit--again God's Spirit is God's Mind and not another god person inside of Him:

Isaiah 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD;
.....My spirit that is upon thee,
.....and my words which I have put in thy mouth,
..........shall not depart out of thy mouth,
..........nor out of the mouth of thy seed,
..........nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seed, saith the LORD,
..........from henceforth and for ever.


Having read all of the Bible and especially 1 Corinthians 2 those weaned on the Bible in Churches of Christ understand that Paul -- as he often does--draws a parallel:

The Holy Spirit OF God
.....Is to God
What our spirit
.....Is to us.
Then "but WE have the mind of Christ."

None of the classical trinitarians failed to understand that

There is only ONE GOD the Father of the Universe.
There is only ONE Son, Jesus of Nazareth, whom the Father "made to be both Lord and Christ."
The creeds then add as an afterthought "and we believe in the Holy Spirit" but they did not make IT a part of the ONE God in heaven and ONE man on earth to be His Mediator: Moses said 'another prophet like me.'

John who said that the "another Comforter" was Jesus Christ the Righteous also said that if you don't believe in the

One God in Heaven
One Son on Earth

Spirit ONLY means "wind." It is used in a figurative sense of the "breath" of the One Father revealing His Mind to the One Son. In Matthew 23 Jesus said that parables were to fool the foolish Scribes and Pharisees. He called them hypocrites and Christ in Ezekiel called them Rhetoricians (sellers of wined water), singers and instrument players.

Then you are ANTI-Christ and a Blasphemer because you CLAIM something Jesus Christ The Holy Spirit did not reveal to you.

http://www.piney.com/Blasphemy.Against. ... pirit.html


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Dave
Dave

October 25th, 2011, 9:02 pm #3

The ANTI-church "Answering the Church of Christ" recommends a Roman Catholic site which. Since the Progressive Church of Christ makes the same false charges as the Catholic Church, we will look at this Catholic page.

Questions for the Church of Christ-Faith Facts

http://www.piney.com/Questions.for.the. ... Facts.html

Ken Sublett said "John who said that the "another Comforter" was Jesus Christ the Righteous also said that if you don't believe in the

John said NO such a thing. Jesus said it! Do I need to send you a red letter edition? Also, John nor Jesus said that the "another Comforter" was Jesus Christ. ANOTHER means additional and/or different.

(KJV) John 146And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Ken, why would Jesus tell us that He will send the Holy Ghost in HIS NAME (Jesus) if it were actually Jesus Himself? Why would Jesus refer to the Holy Spirit as being "He?" If it were Himself He would not have said "He."

John 16
13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Notice vs 14.....HE shall glorify ME. Two different spirits being spoke of here Ken.

Lets try this one Ken....
31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

You can speak a word against Jesus, but not the Holy Ghost. Still say that they are the same???


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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 26th, 2011, 12:10 am #4

Note the condition:

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father,
....and he shall give you another Comforter,
....that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth;
....whom the WORLD cannot receive,
....because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him:
....but ye know him;
....for he dwelleth with you,
....and shall be in you.
John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

The Apostles "saw" the Spirit of Truth
The Apostles "knew" the Spirit of Truth
The Apostles "dwelled with" the Spirit of truth.

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself:
handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

A "spirit" to the disciples was a ghost or "spook."

Jesus was not A spirit in that sense:

He was a Holy Spirit
He was a visible Spirit OF Truth.
The glorified Jesus of Nazareth let Paul SEE Him and HEAR His voice.
He promised to APPEAR to Paul to guide him into all truth.

The "spirit" of the hireling-preacherlings who just read other people's blogs is probably a "Lying Spirit."

Which Spirit OF would you like: none of these are PEOPLE. Spirit literally means ONLY Wind.



If Jesus Christ the Righteous--the promised Comforter--wants to say something to any of those people who intimidate and fleece you by claiming that their KoolAid works magic MUST be able to swear that they have SEEN the risen Holy Spirit Jesus or He SPOKE to them.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 26th, 2011, 12:20 am #5

Theophilus of Antioch: Doctrine of the Trinity

http://www.piney.com/HsTheopTrinity.html

Theophilus was the first person to use the word "trias." This was in the year 181 and the Anathasian Creed was not formulated until the fifth century.



You will say, then, to me, "Is God angry? "Yes; He is angry with those who act wickedly, but He is good, and kind, and merciful, to those who love and fear Him; for He is a chastener [not punisher] of the godly, and father of the righteous; but he is a judge and punisher of the impious.

Chapter IV.-Attributes of God. Theophilus of Antioch, Theophilus of Antioch,

And He is without beginning, because He is unbegotten; and He is unchangeable, because He is immortal.

And he is called God on account of His having placed all things on security afforded by Himself; and on account of any of any foreign means (of) running, and moving, and being active, and nourishing, and foreseeing, and governing, and making all things alive.

But he is Lord, because He rules over the universe;
Father, because he is before all things;
Fashioner and Maker, because He is creator and maker of the universe;
the Highest, because of His being above all;
and Almighty, because He Himself rules and embraces all.

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Racnor
Racnor

October 26th, 2011, 12:38 am #6

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
*********************************************

Ken,

Three, yet one. Not "A" but "the". BTW the New Testament pre dates "Theophilus".
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 26th, 2011, 1:24 am #7

The Bible predates the "trias" words. The NT predates the LU tritheism by 1938 years. H. Leo Boles, Church of Christ East wing. No one baptized in the NAMES of Father, Son and Spirit until trinitarian baptism during which they were BOUND to baptize THREE TIMES. Father, Son and Spirit are NOT Names. Throughout the Bible EVERYTHING including baptism was done in the NAME of Jesus Christ--there IS no other name.



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Racnor
Racnor

October 26th, 2011, 1:58 am #8

Ken, sorry, you can't blow this off. Jesus, not Paul, commanded us to be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

I was baptized one time after this verse was read. I don't have a problem with one being baptized in the name of Jesus. It's all the same. However I do have a problem with you blowing off this verse.
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Dave
Dave

October 26th, 2011, 2:41 am #9

The ANTI-church "Answering the Church of Christ" recommends a Roman Catholic site which. Since the Progressive Church of Christ makes the same false charges as the Catholic Church, we will look at this Catholic page.

Questions for the Church of Christ-Faith Facts

http://www.piney.com/Questions.for.the. ... Facts.html

Just goes to show you....people can hear but not listen. You show them the very Word of God and they still don't believe.

Matthew 12
31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

A DEFINITE DISTINCTION between the Holy Spirit and Jesus.


Wrong again Ken....
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 26th, 2011, 3:44 am #10

Ken, sorry, you can't blow this off. Jesus, not Paul, commanded us to be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

I was baptized one time after this verse was read. I don't have a problem with one being baptized in the name of Jesus. It's all the same. However I do have a problem with you blowing off this verse.
Peter was an eye- and ear- witness.
Peter commanded to be baptized in the NAME of Jesus Christ.

Since the pagan understanding that the gods came in families, Jesus affirms that God is not a family: God the ONE God in heaven gave ALL authority that whatever we do we MUST do it in the name of the Lord.

If you don't grasp that

THESIS: the pagan gods came as father, mother, child. Thomas wanted to SEE the Father whom he would understand as Zeus in the temple

ANTITHESIS: If you have seen the son you have seen the father. Catholics understand that the real trinity is father, mother and son: that is because the spirit was considered as a female: Sophia in Proverbs.

The "formula" does not make any difference if you were not washed with water INTO the Word or school of Christ and not to get you a p;unched ticket on the joy bus to heaven.

Like it or not, most of use experienced "infant" baptism and were confirmed much later as DISCIPLES. Students do not attend worship observations: Jesus said the Kingdom will not be with religious observations.
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