Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 26th, 2011, 3:46 am #11

Just goes to show you....people can hear but not listen. You show them the very Word of God and they still don't believe.

Matthew 12
31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

A DEFINITE DISTINCTION between the Holy Spirit and Jesus.


Wrong again Ken....
Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently,
who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 1 Peter 1: 10

Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ
which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ,
and the glory that should follow. 1 Peter 1: 11


But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 2 Cor 3:15

Nevertheless, when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 2 Cor 3:16
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Cor 3:17

But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord,
are changed into the same image from glory to glory,
even as by the Spirit of the Lord. 2 Cor 3:18

<font color="#0000FF">And because ye are sons,
God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son
into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Gal 4:6


I'll Bet the Spirit of Jesus Christ is named Jesus Christ?

Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him.
And he said unto me, See thou do it not:
I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren
that have the testimony of Jesus:
worship God: for the testimony of Jesus IS the spirit of prophecy.


</font>
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Dave
Dave

October 26th, 2011, 4:19 am #12

The ANTI-church "Answering the Church of Christ" recommends a Roman Catholic site which. Since the Progressive Church of Christ makes the same false charges as the Catholic Church, we will look at this Catholic page.

Questions for the Church of Christ-Faith Facts

http://www.piney.com/Questions.for.the. ... Facts.html

So you admit that the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Jesus are not the same?
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

October 26th, 2011, 6:11 am #13

The ANTI-church "Answering the Church of Christ" recommends a Roman Catholic site which. Since the Progressive Church of Christ makes the same false charges as the Catholic Church, we will look at this Catholic page.

Questions for the Church of Christ-Faith Facts

http://www.piney.com/Questions.for.the. ... Facts.html

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]We have published a number of threads concerning the man- and Council- and papal-approved doctrine of the Trinity. The link to one of these threads is as follows:

Source: The Gift of A Holy Spirit means A Holy Mind [/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

October 26th, 2011, 6:30 am #14

The ANTI-church "Answering the Church of Christ" recommends a Roman Catholic site which. Since the Progressive Church of Christ makes the same false charges as the Catholic Church, we will look at this Catholic page.

Questions for the Church of Christ-Faith Facts

http://www.piney.com/Questions.for.the. ... Facts.html

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]1) Bible speaks of "the spirit" OF the Father (Matt. 10:20)
2) Bible speaks of "the spirit" OF Jesus Christ (Rom. 8:9; I Pet. 1:11; Phil. 1:19)
3) Bible does NOT speak of "the spirit OF the Holy Spirit" as a 3rd person (NoRef. 99:999)

We can create a song about "The Trinitarian Fallacy" based on the passages above:

-------- Verse 1 ---------

Bible speaks of the spirit of your Father in heaven (1st Person, you say);
Bible speaks of the spirit of Jesus Christ His Son (2nd Person, you say);
Bible speaks of the spirit of The Holy Spirit (3rd Person, you say?);
Oh, no, the Bible does not -- for it's redundant.

-------- Verse 2 ---------

Our Father in heaven has a holy spirit; a Christian should too.
The Lord Jesus Christ has a holy spirit; a Christian should too.
The Holy Spirit has a holy spirit; but again it sounds redundant.
In reality, the spirit of the Father and His Son is HOLY.

OK, that's the message in song as man has the tendency to speed-read a post without thoroughly understand.[/color]
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Fred Whaley
Fred Whaley

October 26th, 2011, 1:45 pm #15

1 Peter 1:2 "who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of GOD THE FATHER, through the sanctifying work of THE SPIRIT, for obedience to JESUS CHRIST and sprinkling by his blood." Peter does not say the spirit of the Father or the spirit of Jesus but THE SPIRIT referencing THE HOLY SPIRIT. All in Christianity do not agree on instrumental music but all in Christianity agree on the trinity including Churches of Christ except for 2 false teachers named Donnie and Ken.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 26th, 2011, 8:23 pm #16

1 Peter 1:2 "who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of GOD THE FATHER, through the sanctifying work of THE SPIRIT, for obedience to JESUS CHRIST and sprinkling by his blood." Peter does not say the spirit of the Father or the spirit of Jesus but THE SPIRIT referencing THE HOLY SPIRIT.

1Pet. 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Faer
through sanctification of the spirit,
unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:


"The Holy Spirit" OF Christ does not sanctify us: that denies that God sanctifies us; OUR spirit is an UNholy spirit and because of the sacrifice OF JESUS OF NAZARETH -- whom God the Father made to be both Lord and Christ -- it is OUR spirit which needs to be made pure or holy.

Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.God the One Father planned that we be elected:

Kletos (g2822) klay-tos; from the same as 2821; invited, i.e. appointed, or (spec.) a saint: - called.
Klesis (g2821) klay'-sis; from a shorter form of 2564; an invitation (fig.): - calling.
Kaleo (g2564) kal-eh'-o; akin to the base of 2753; to "call" (prop. aloud, but used in a variety of applications, dir. or otherwise): - bid, call (forth), (whose, whose sur-) name (was [called).


He sanctifies OUR spirit into the "obedience and shedding of the blood of Jesus Christ.
When we obey that FORM or pattern OUR spiriits become a sanctification OF our spirit.

A sanctified spirit is:

Hagiasmos (g38) hag-ee-as-mos'; from 37; prop. purification, i.e. (the state) purity; concr. (by Hebr.) a purifier: - holiness, sanctification.

Paul defined it this way: A true heart is

Katharos (g2513) kath-ar-os'; of uncert. affin.; clean (lit. or fig.): - clean, clear, pure.

Let us draw near with a true HEART in full assurance of faith
having our HEART sprinkled from an evil conscience, [spirit]
and our bodies washed with pure water. Heb.10:22


The same Peter called it A good or clear conscience.

And corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-- not the removal of dirt from the flesh,
but an appeal to God for A good conscience-- through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 1 Peter 3:21


NOTICE THAT IT IS:

through sanctification OF the spirit, [OURS]

AND NOT "sanctification BY the Spirit."

NO ONE IN HISTORY BELIEVED THAT THE SPIRIT OF GOD OR THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST OR THE SPIRIT OF ME WAS ANOTHER "PEOPLE."

THE LU SECT of the Chuurch of Christ and the GA invented the THREE PEOPLE family first articulated in 1938 at FHC.

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 26th, 2011, 8:59 pm #17

All in Christianity do not agree on instrumental music but all in Christianity agree on the trinity including Churches of Christ except for 2 false teachers named Donnie and Ken.

MOST blogs are ANTI-church of Christ and have no trouble just repeating "scholars" but who often just deliberately misrepresent. John Mark Hicks must have broken his spirit trying to force Alexander Campbell into believing in the LU dogma that God is THREE persons each with their own centers of consciousness and each with their own special talent."

The Spirit of Christ WHICH sanctifies is HIS WORD: you have to be blind to miss that.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
....the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

In the NOT musical passages: Romans 15 spells out "that which is written"; Ephesians 5 defines using SPIRIT and in Colossians 3 Paul defined SPIRIT as the Word of Christ.

2Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Thessalonians 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because
....God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation
.... through sanctification of the spirit and belief of the truth:
2Thessalonians 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel,
....to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

At baptism God gives US A holy spirit or A good conscience. That also means A good consciousness or A Co-Perception of the Word of God. Paul told the Corinthians that they could not READ or HEAR the Word of God (the PATTERN ordained by Christ in Spirit in the wilderness)

http://www.piney.com/Alexander.Campbell ... pirit.html

Alexander Campbell and others understand that A holy spirit is OUR unholy spirit which has been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ and not His "spirit."

This is...understood by every attentive reader. The original phrase is hagiasmos pneumatos, and is found only in II. Thess. ii. 13; I. Pet. i. 2. In both places it appears to refer to the sanctification of the spirit OF believers. It is literally rendered "sanctification [or holiness] OF spirit." There is no article in the original and no epithet that suggests the Holy Spirit in either passage.

God has chosen men to salvation through (or by) holiness OF spirit;
<font color="#FFFFFF">....
not through the holiness of his Spirit,
....but through the holiness of their spirit.

When Jesus prayed (John xvii.) for the sanctification or holiness of his disciples,
....it was through the truth: "Sanctify them through the truth;
....thy word is truth."
The belief of the truth is, therefore, by Paul associated with this holiness or sanctification of spirit.

The Spirit of God is frequently denominated in these days, "the Sanctifier." Let it be granted that it is the Spirit that sanctifies or sets apart men to God, still it must be argued from the Record that he sanctifies them only through the truth or gospel believed.

A sanctified unbeliever is inconceivable;
....and, as "without holiness [or sanctification of spirit] no man can see the Lord;
....so, without faith, there can be no holiness, and no action acceptable to God.


First John defines this unique:
One God the Father (of all monotheists)
One Son Jesus Christ.

The "spirit" is the breath which flows between the ONE GOD ACTOR and the ONE human acted upon.

John says that if you DENY that then you are ANTI-Christ: this IS a salvation issue.

ALL evil in high places flows from preachers who THINK that their imagination is the Holy Spirit living inside making THEM a second incarnation.
</font>

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 26th, 2011, 11:37 pm #18

The ANTI-church "Answering the Church of Christ" recommends a Roman Catholic site which. Since the Progressive Church of Christ makes the same false charges as the Catholic Church, we will look at this Catholic page.

Questions for the Church of Christ-Faith Facts

http://www.piney.com/Questions.for.the. ... Facts.html

I was going to make fun of the The--0--Lites who cannot or will not understand prepositions. For instance the sanctification OF the spirit CANNOT--but--is translated as sanctification BY the Holy Spirit.

Donnie brought everyone up to date on prepositions and I was going to ask about adjectives. Holy Spirit cannot be A NAME or define A "person with their own center of consciousness" but it IS frequently.

Donnie put this into a table: if you are not convinced then don't worry about it because MANY (most) are called but FEW (a puny number) are chosen: chosen or tested by fire.

[color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times]"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."[/color] (Acts 2:38)

[color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times]"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord."[/color] (Acts 3:19)


<table bgcolor="#ff9900" border="1"><tr><td>
PARALLEL PASSAGES:
</td><td>
ACTS 2:38
</td><td>
ACTS 3:19
</td></tr><tr><td></td><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td></td><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td>
REQUIREMENT:
</td><td>
Repent
</td><td>
Repent
</td></tr><tr><td>
(Conjunction)
</td><td>
and
</td><td>
and
</td></tr><tr><td>
REQUIREMENT:
</td><td>
Be baptized...
</td><td>
Be converted
</td></tr><tr><td>
RESULT:
</td><td>
For [so that, toward, UNTO] the remission of sins
</td><td>
That your sins may be blotted out
</td></tr><tr><td>
RESULT:
</td><td>
And ye shall receive the gift of a holy spirit
</td><td>
When the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord
</td></tr><tr><td></td><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td>
NOTICE:
</td><td>When sins are remitted, one receives that gift of purity, that spirit of holiness, of being cleansed. [Note: this is a translation issue -- the expression being used to justify reference to the "Holy Spirit" as another "person" in the Godhead.] The word "holy" is an ADJECTIVE that describes the kind of spirit one has when the new birth is experienced. It is one's spirit that is MADE HOLY. Therefore, the gift referred to here is a spirit that is HOLY.</td><td>When sins are blotted out, the conscience is clear; all guilt is removed. It is "when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord." It is the new birth.</td></tr><tr><td>
NOT TO BE MISTAKEN:
</td><td>
  • It is NOT the "baptism of the Holy Ghost."
    </li>
  • It does not make one a Pentecostal.
    </li>
  • It does not make one charismatic.
    </li>
  • It does not give one power to heal.
    </li>
  • It does not give one the gift of gab (speaking in tongues).
    </li>
  • It does not give one the power to lay hands on others.</li>
</td><td>
  • It is NOT the "baptism of the Holy Ghost."
    </li>
  • It does not make one a Pentecostal.
    </li>
  • It does not make one charismatic.
    </li>
  • It does not give one power to heal.
    </li>
  • It does not give one the gift of gab (speaking in tongues).
    </li>
  • It does not give one the power to lay hands on others.</li>
</td></tr></table>
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

October 27th, 2011, 7:35 am #19

The ANTI-church "Answering the Church of Christ" recommends a Roman Catholic site which. Since the Progressive Church of Christ makes the same false charges as the Catholic Church, we will look at this Catholic page.

Questions for the Church of Christ-Faith Facts

http://www.piney.com/Questions.for.the. ... Facts.html

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]In response to my earlier post regarding "the spirit OF the Father" (Matt. 10:20) and "the spirit OF Jesus Christ" (Rom. 8:9; I Pet. 1:11; Phil. 1:19), Fred Whaley was so shocked at the supporting passages that he decided to reject the truth. Fred did not like at all the 2 verses of a song I wrote in a few minutes.[/color]

Fred's response was:
1 Peter 1:2 "who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of GOD THE FATHER, through the sanctifying work of THE SPIRIT, for obedience to JESUS CHRIST and sprinkling by his blood." Peter does not say the spirit of the Father or the spirit of Jesus but THE SPIRIT referencing THE HOLY SPIRIT. All in Christianity do not agree on instrumental music but all in Christianity agree on the trinity including Churches of Christ except for 2 false teachers named Donnie and Ken.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Well, Fred, thanks for participating in the discussion of an important topic, instead of Jeff Walling's Gatlinburg Winterfest for the bored young people needing to be entertained by "Christian Rock" bands.

But let's learn together what the Scripture really says about "the spirit." There's so much to cover when we discuss this subject. Sometimes it's difficult to determine where to begin.

OK, let's start with your premise. You are stating that because the passage you quoted mentions "THE SPIRIT," it is your evidence that the such entity is the 3rd person in the man-made doctrine of THE TRINITY.

Just so I do not repeat myself needlessly, I would list the following numbered (for reference purposes) but not ordered items:[/color]
<ol>[*]Proper nouns that are names of persons are not preceded by an article ("a" or "the").
</li>[*]Would you like to be addressed as Fred Whaley or "the Whaley"? Your choice.
</li>[*]"The Spirit" (capitalized for you, since you're accustomed to seeing it that way) as an entity is not a proper noun or a proper name.
</li>[*]"The Holy Spirit" (capitalized just for you) as an entity is not a name, either.
</li>[*]The word "spirit" is a noun, singular neuter.
</li>[*]The word "spirit" [in scriptural references] can mean "ghost, wind, life, mind."
</li>[*]The word "holy" is an adjective, a description of God's spirit or mind.
</li>[*]Let's look at it in human terms, using "A Beautiful Mind" as an example. Wasn't that a movie some years ago? Maybe, we should use the word "brilliant" instead of the word "beautiful." Here we go:
-- The mind of Fred (Fred is the person, the "mind" is an entity in Fred's composition).
-- The brilliant mind of Fred [that's only an assumption, alright?].
-- The word "brilliant" is an adjective that identifies the kind of mind Fred has.
-- The "mind" of Fred is not Fred himself, is it?
-- The "brilliant mind" of Fred is not Fred himself, is it?
</li>[*]You see, Fred, the spirit is frequently referred to in Scriptures in different ways [ignore the caps/no caps for now--that is a translation issue--just as much as an "it" or a "He" in reference to God's spirit]:
-- "The Spirit OF God" (Genesis 1:2; Matthew 3:16)
-- "The Spirit OF the Lord" (Isaiah 11:2; Acts 8:39)
-- "Thy good spirit" (Nehemiah 9:20)
-- "The Spirit OF the Lord God" (Isaiah 61:1)
-- "His Holy Spirit" (Isaiah 63:10-11)
-- "The Spirit OF your Father" (Matthew 10:20)
-- "The Spirit" (John 1:32)
-- "The holy Spirit OF God" (Ephesians 4:30)
</li>[*]You are correct, Fred, in that "The Spirit" is listed -- and they all refer to the same entity known as God's spirit.
</li>[*]Still, the spirit of the Lord is not a proper noun or name.
</li>[*]Question: Who has or OWNS "the spirit" in "His holy spirit"?
</li>[/list][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]I thought the list might turn out to be in any order. The list can be extended some more, but perhaps next time. I just want to summarize that in this example: "the nose of John" or "the big nose of John" is not John himself. Get it?[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

October 27th, 2011, 6:23 pm #20

The ANTI-church "Answering the Church of Christ" recommends a Roman Catholic site which. Since the Progressive Church of Christ makes the same false charges as the Catholic Church, we will look at this Catholic page.

Questions for the Church of Christ-Faith Facts

http://www.piney.com/Questions.for.the. ... Facts.html

I am ready to pronounce a LAW: Those who oppose the historic view of The Church of Christ in its essentials CAN NEVER grasp that:

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him:
for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,
and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

A Disciple is a Christian: A Disciple is one devoted to seeking knowledge about the MIND of Christ or the SPIRIT of Christ. A Disciple will never fall for the folly that a preacher is ordained to FORMULATE a Scenic and Musical Presentation which they call a worship service.

God always MARKS those who CANNOT read beyond their sought for proof texts. Continuing with the table:



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