September 20th, 2016, 11:46 pm #1

I am on a quest. I have decided to concentrate on finding a "Church of Christ" that does NOT use Church SINGING. I plan to travel until I find such a Church. Wish me safe travels. I will only return to this website if I find such a Church. Goodbye.

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

September 21st, 2016, 2:39 am #2

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Rocnor,

The best chances to find a congregation of the church of Christ that does not engage in "musical worship" [that we know about today] would be in the first century. Even if Amy Grant, Twila Paris, Michael Smith, et al, were living in that era.

I am on a quest also. I'm looking for more churches that engage in the study of God's truth as the Bereans did.

[10] And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. [11] These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (Acts 17, KJV)[/color]

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 21st, 2016, 10:11 pm #3

Maybe in your absence your congregation will get some rest. Here is how to find one of the MANY you never hear about.

Matt. 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

The wise or SOPHISTS are self-authoring speakers (outlawed for men and women), singers, instrument players or actors.Look for MEN who are:

Philosophos , used of all men of education and learning, joined with philoMATHES and philobLOGOS
Opposite. sophistēs,

Sophists are master of their CRAFT, adepts, DIVINERS, of poets, of "melody and playing. musicians players of the Khelun or the turtle harp of HERMES or KAIROS. Especially MELODY in a holy place. A rhetorician and APOLLONS sophists.

Remember that the only PERSONIFIED SPIRIT is Apollon and he is the leader of the Muses (locusts) whose musical performance was always considered prostitution done in the name of a god. Paul called it "corrupting the Word of God" by prostituting it.

Matt. 11:26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
Matt. 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and HE to whomsoever the Son will REVEAL him.

The singular role of an elder is to "teach that which has been taught." Neither elder nor preacher knows anything even if they "cast visions" as in witchcraft or pray for 40 years.

That means you have NOTHING to offer:

Matt. 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

A Burden in Hebrew and Greek is a repeating song: It is defined as "Spiritual anxiety through religious ritual."

Rest or PAUO has the same meaning as SABBATH: stop the speaking, stop the singing, stop the playing, stop they whatever you do to hinder the command to PREACH the WORD by READING the Word for doctrine and Comfort.

Matt. 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and LEARN OF ME

In your search you need to know whom is HE.

for I am meek and lowly in heart: [oops]
and ye shall find REST unto your souls. [oops]
Matt. 11:30 For my yoke is easy,
and my burden is light.

NUMBER SECONDLY: Jesus and everyone taught the Gospel OF the Kingdom and NOT the gospel of the gospel:

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Luke 17:22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
Luke 17:23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.

For now the Kingdom is a SCHOOL OF CHRIST through the WORD: When the King comes to GIVE UP His Crown I betcha that the Progressives will be lusting after a loud TRUMPET QUARTET.

Eph. 2:20 And are built upon [EDUCATION IN THE EKKLESIA] the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Isaiah 11 God does not judge by what He SEES nor what He HEARS. The Spirit which would rest on Messiah were SEVEN FORMS OF DIVINE KNOWLEGE.

So! just how will you be able to tell whether it is a Church OF CHRIST or a church of rarely APT elders commanded to eject the cunning craftsmen (the Beast-Serpent) or sophists: speakers, singers or instrument players?

A Church of Christ will be found SPEAKING where the Bible SPEAKS. That should be an easy test.

Disciples come ONE AT A TIME just like a Chemist. A Disciples OF Christ never judges the Teaching of The Spirit OF Christ made Perfect by Jesus and left for our "memory" by eye-- and ear-- witnesses.

How hard, Oh Lord, how hard thou art to teach something SOoooo Hardee-uh!

Matt. 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name [SINGULAR] of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matt. 28:20
<font color="#FFFFFF">....
Teaching them observe
....all things
....whatsoever I have commanded you:

But! The anti-Logos or Regulative Principle say there IS no such PATTERN.

Or, BUT, that was then and this is now: we heard a "new spirit" tell us that Jesus would NEVER have said that if He had the benefit of the evolution of our eye-balls so WE and our Salary Level as Thought Leader.
BUT, Jesus says "there is no statute of limitations."

and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Last edited by Ken.Sublett on September 22nd, 2016, 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 23rd, 2016, 8:46 pm #4

I am on a quest. I have decided to concentrate on finding a "Church of Christ" that does NOT use Church SINGING. I plan to travel until I find such a Church. Wish me safe travels. I will only return to this website if I find such a Church. Goodbye.
People willing to sow discord and confiscate your property and concord claim that THEY have apostolic power. The real problems began in Nashville when men began ordaining one anothers as APOSTLES. The "Missional Ministry"--there is no such word--is built on the five-fold ministry they THINK they see in Ephesians 4. That includes prophets and apostles in YOUR church and YOU dare not question them. Quoting Scripture just proves that you are 'modern' before WE got a new hermeneutic (Hermes is the demon son of Zeus. The little known name is KAIROS." However, Scripture always draws a sharp line between the WE and the YOU.. The WE are prophets by the Spirit of Christ or inspired teachers and Apostles are eye-- and ear-- witnesses chosen by Jesus. Peter outlaws "private interpretation" or "further expounding." This would repudiate God's Spirit which spoke through Jesus who fulfilled the prophecies. The prophets define the future REST both inclusively and exclusively. REST as Sabbath or Paul silences anything but being refreshed by the WORD (only) of God (only) left for OUR memory.

Just after the BEGINNING of Ephesians 2 shows FROM WHAT we are made SAFE by Grace (which teaches us to avoid) through Faith or Pistis which DEMANDS Compliance, Paul defined the singular ONE PIECE PATTERN for and only PURPOSE and only MINISTRY and only STAFF for CHRIST'S Purpose Driven BODY or KINGDOM. He is still king over us and there is no role and you will NOT be able to use your eyes, nose or pleasure centers to DETECT that INVISIBLE Kingdom. When God looks for one of His SCHOOLS--ONLY He will not judge by His Eyes or Ears. Isaiah 11 defining the seven Spirits OF.

Try not to whine and mock Paul whom Jesus promised to guide him as HOLY SPIRIT.

<font face="arial" size="4">Some identifying marks:

Jesus said that God HIDES from the wise or sophists: speakers, singers, instrument players.
Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites: speakers, singers, instrument players.
The Spirit OF Christ commanded us not to pay for the Free Water of the Word. Isaiah 55
The Spirit OF Christ commanded usupers not to seek their own pleasure or speak their own words. Isaiah 55.
Paul said that the "lay by in store" was not a command (2 Corinthians 8; 9)
Paul understanding Isaiah commanded us not to seek our own pleasure (rhetoric, musical, scenic)
THEN the singular purpose is POSSIBLE: "Use one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written for our learning" or "Scripture for our comfort" which is how Jesus is still our singular Spirit Comforter.

When you return from your QUEST you might not bother too much about the SINGING: just look and see whether those claiming Psalms as authority sing PSALMS or anything "written for our learning..

And they sing "that which is written" by some sentimental poet.

Or if they CLAIM that Psallo COMMANDS them to impose Instrumental Praise and the owners "get over it or get out."

Then, you can understand what is "Strong Delusions."

That's going to be just as STRONG a task as the inability to comprehend:

"Speaking words such as LEXIS is the OPPOSITE of ODE which carries the enchantment or bewitching person."

Last edited by Ken.Sublett on September 23rd, 2016, 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 24th, 2016, 3:46 pm #5

Please remember that this forum is not what you may or may not do: God says that He owns all of the cattle on a thousand hills and "If I GET HUNGRY I will not tell you." That is simply to refute John Mark Hicks and others who have turned the Lord's Supper into a JUBILATING supper we set so that GOD EATS while we BURN THE FAT.

It doesn't matter how many widow's you fleece promising to build tens of thousands of IDENTICAL institutions if you say that God COMMANDED YOU to give and give and give so that I can me mediator in song or sermon.

Foy E. Wallace, Jr could not be accused of being liberal wrote:

"Concerning budgets--it is now a mark of the identity of a scriptural church to have or not to have certain benevolent programs and missionary projects in the budget; but the time was when churches had no such problems, for there were no budgets. The apportionment of the contributions into a pre-arranged budget is comparatively new, and it met with opposition for the early writers of both the Gospel Advocate and the Firm Foundation, perhaps for the foreseen reason of what is happening now--an an issue develops on what may or may not be scripturally included in the budget, and the budget becomes a sacramental thing, the depository for the 'Lord's Money.'" (Foy E. Wallace, Jr., The Gospel for Today, p 552)

There is not a single church split which is not caused by someone USURPING the Will of Christ and deciding YOUR budget should finance MY para-church institution even if is feeding the starving.

The problem with taking little liberties is, as Paul notes, there are a host or "many" who decide that their project is the Lord's Project. Paul makes a good ethical case for giving but lays down some very rigid rules for deciding WHICH hand is the LORD'S hand.

1 Corinthians 16 is NOT a command for collecting tithes and offerings. After a year's delay Paul defines HOW the money is to be collected. The command from reading 101a and historical opinions is that Jim is to lay by HIMSELF something on the first day which was the first day they might or might not receive a day's pay. The money was to be brought together BEFORE Paul arrives so that his presence might not exert and EXTORTING influence. How shall they fare when they drive people away by the constant demand for money to ENABLE the power of the gospel?

MOREOVER, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia; 2 Cor 8:1
How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality. 2 Cor 8:2

Liberality debunks the Law of Giving.

For to their power, I bear record, yea, and beyond their power they were WILLING of themselves; 2 Cor 8:3

Praying us with much entreaty that we would receive the gift, and take upon us the fellowship of the ministering to the saints. 2 Cor 8:4

So, look for a church which has spent lots of time teaching reading and writing so that they understand that Macedonia and NOT God asked Paul to send their LOGIA of free GIFT only to feed the STARVING.

And this they did, not as we hoped, but first gave their own selves to the Lord, and unto us by the will of God. 2 Cor 8:5

Now, after a year of VOLUNTEERING to send help:

Insomuch that we desired Titus, that as he had begun, so he would also finish in you the same grace also. 2 Cor 8:
Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also. 2 Cor 8:7

I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others, and to prove the sincerity of your love. 2 Cor 8:8

NOT Epitage (g2003) ep-ee-tag-ay'; from 2004; an injunction or decree; by impl. authoritativeness: - authority, commandment.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Ro.16:26

For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich. 2 Cor 8:9

And herein I give my ADVICE: for this is EXPEDIENT for you, who have begun before, not only to do, but also to be forward a year ago. 2 Cor 8:10

Gnome (g1106) gno'-may; from 1097; cognition, i.e. (subj.) opinion, or (obj.) resolve (counsel, consent, etc.): - advice, / agree, judgment, mind, purpose, will.

Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have. 2 Cor 8:11
For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not. 2 Cor 8:12
For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened: 2 Cor 8:13
But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality: 2 Cor 8:14

All apostate churches have been dominated by a man Jesus gave no ROLE and not DOLE using psychological violence to force YOU to give your food money and violate Christ's command in Isaiah 55. ALL of them include forcing people to DO things which are NOT connected to the ONE-PIECE-PATTERN as a School of Christ (God and the Campbells) where worship is "Reading and Musing the Word only."

They are so OF THE WORLD that they believe that they can CAN drive you into Legalism and being fleeced so that WE can save the world. We begin by slandering all existing and faithful Churches who are still WORD OF GOD ONLY Schools of The Word.

Test: will YOU command "laying by in store" intimately connected to the Lord's Supper which is suppose to silence LEGALISM such as rhetoric, singing, playing instruments or planning programs to keep the LAMBS harnessed and whipped all week long.

Shame, Shame, Shame!


Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 27th, 2016, 5:08 pm #6

Here is one sung by the locals which caused a few to hang their heads in distust.

Matt Brouwer – Father, I Adore You Lyrics

Father, I adore You
Lay my life before You
How I love You

Jesus, I adore You
Lay my life before You
How I love You

Spirit, I adore You
Lay my life before You
How I love You

(Repeat as many times as needed)

NEEDED FOR WHAT, DAVE? If you are teaching you can obey the ONLY pattern and SPEAK these words just once--if you do not want to expose your ANTICHRISTIANITY. The Jews considered reciting the Hallel hymns on a regular basis as IDOLATRY.

When you repeat over and over you NEED it because you intend to INDUCE some mind altering which cannot happen if you just SPEAK it once. The levites "prophesied with instruments" which word means soothsaying and/or SORCERY. Jesus as HOLY SPIRIT inspired john to say that ALL religious craftsmen: speakers, singers, instrument payers are SORCERERS because it cannot be denied that they are MAKING JESUS DUMB and silence His role as ONLY authoritative teacher instead of Russ Adcox and the other KAIROS replacements of Jesus as LOGOS.

Matt. 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain [A Hills Church], and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
Matt. 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Matt. 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve



September 27th, 2016, 5:35 pm #7

I led that one about a month ago. Thanks for posting the lyrics and giving credit to the author. Sooooooooooo sweet a tune. It goes in a round with a female response. Even for those congregations that have to work to emit harmony, this song prompts harmony and you don't even know it.

Thanks Ken. Oh, and by the way, it is NEEDED for nothing, but HELPS for PRAISING GOD!


Have at it ole boy!

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 27th, 2016, 7:46 pm #8

I told you that you can lose the reading ability of a fourth grader: Koma induced by musical instruments.

The MANY (mega) sing but the Christian Little Flock (mikros] Antithesis is to SPEAK and this is probably the most God-Induced judgment on the World, Kosmos, Ecumenical or the kingdom of the Devil. John heard heavenly things:

Rev. 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, SAYING, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
Rev. 19:3 And again they SAID, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
Rev. 19:6 And I heard <font color="#FF0000">AS IT WERE
the voice of a great multitude,
and AS THE voice of many waters,
and AS THE voice of mighty thunderings,
SAYING, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth

We won't NEED Senior Pulpit Preacher Person to reign over us will we?

David your founder SANG the Halals but Jesus OUR founder ONLY speaks or says and therefore His DISCIPLES only Speak or Read. That is the only way to separate by the MARKS.

g3004. lego, leg´-o; a primary verb; properly, to “lay” forth, i.e. (figuratively) relate (in words (usually of systematic or set discourse; whereas 2036 and 5346 generally refer to an individual expression or speech respectively; while 4483 is properly to break silence merely,

Excludes and 2980 means an extended or random harangue)); by implication, to mean: — ask, bid, BOAST [Halal],

legō to say something, i. e. to speak to the point or purpose, to explain more fully
to RECITE what is written, labe to biblion kai lege

g5346. phemi, fay-mee´; properly, the same as the base of 5457 and 5316; to show or make known one’s thoughts, i.e. speak or say: — affirm, say. Compare 3004.

Jesus said that the WORDS which He SPOKE were SPIRIT and LIFE. Life is never attributed to songs or LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS.

God didn't PROVIDE you with any tuneful songs because God is a Father and not a mother. God is WORD meaning W.O.R.D.S as what one SPEAKS and that attribute of God OUTLAWS rhetoric, singing, playing instruments, clapping, shouting, acting, hugging or kissing. That makes it EASY to distinguish the MARKS: the BEAST or SERPENT is A new style of music or Satyric (Pan, cappella) drama. We don't have to JUDGE but only baptized disciples have A holy spirit and can READ the Word.</font>


September 28th, 2016, 3:51 am #9

Matthew 26
30 And when they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.


So no matter how Ken tries and distorts or tears down the Word.....JESUS SANG. Doesn't matter what He SANG or how He SANG it, I know it was from the heart and He worshiped His Father, my God, by doing so.

You told another fib when you assumed that I had in any way been influenced by musical instruments. We do vocal only.

What did you think you were proving when you decided to get baptized again?


Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 28th, 2016, 8:57 pm #10

They HYMNED or DICTO A hymn (in the Bible) and WENT OUT. They would meet again same time NEXT year. I like your pattern. Where do I join?

Holy Spirit, light divine,
Shine upon this heart of mine,
Chase the shades of night away,
Turn my darkness into day.

John 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

Holy Spirit, power divine,
Cleanse this guilty heart of mine;
Long has sin, without control,
Held dominion o'er my soul.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized,
and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Holy Ghost, with joy divine,
Cheer this saddened heart of mine,
Bid my many woes depart,
Heal my wounded, bleeding heart.

Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
Rom. 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
1Th. 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

Holy Spirit, all divine,
Dwell within this heart of mine,
Cast down every idol throne,
Reign supreme, and reign alone.

Eph. 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

2Cor. 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
2Cor. 10:4 (For the weapons [lifeless instruments] of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
2Cor. 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2Cor. 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
2Cor. 10:7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ’s, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ’s, even so are we Christ’s.
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on September 28th, 2016, 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.