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Well thank you all for not exploding on me when I asked, I've seen some heated debates in here and have read up on a lot of your opinions. Since I've done so, I can see many repetitions in the arguments presented and I can pretty much predict what will be said next, so I'll be leaving now. I really should have just read on instead of wasting space in here, and I apologize for that. I'm glad to see your congregation is so large, over 1,000! Wow, I've never been part of a congregation of more than 80. The regular church attendance in my church is about 40-50 on Sundays, and I consider that quite a bit!There is no separate entity, there is one God and he consists of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I know that the spirit isn't some sort of little guy that hops into your body. But what I was wondering was if the Holy Spirit can be received by those that are not Saved. Since then I've looked into it and here's what I've found:
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
And if the Holy Spirit is in the Saved and not those that aren't Saved, then why did Peter baptize AFTER the Holy Ghost was received?
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
I'm back! I didn't think I would be, but I have some things to lay down on the table or I'll feel like I didn't do my duty as a Christian.Jesus discounted the flesh and said MY WORDS are SPIRIT and they are LIFE. The Words of Christ the Spirit simply will not "stick" or reside in A human spirit which is not HOLY or undefiled. In the Old Testament God promised to give US a NEW, HOLY SPIRIT and the purpose was so that we would keep His commands.
The purpose for remission of sins is that God can WASH our HUMAN spirit so that it becomes A holy spirit. It is OUR spirits which hold the SINS and it is OUR spirit which needs to be purged to make IT holy:
- <font color=blue>"Again--Some will say, What does the expression Holy Spirit mean? Well, in scripture it stands first for God the Holy Spirit, and secondly for the holy mind or spirit of a believer-- for illustration, take Peter's words to Ananias, "Why has Satan tempted you to lie to the Holy Spirit; you have not lied to men, but to God," (the Holy Spirit.) And the Saviour says, How much more will your heavenly Father give A holy spirit (as it should be translated) to those that ask him. Again--Praying in A holy spirit. Again--Paul says he approved himself God's servant "by knowledge, by long sufferings, by kindness, by a holy spirit'" by a mind innocent of the love of gain, or commerce, or sensuality. Walter Scott
"But an old Hubris tends to bring forth in evil men, sooner or later, at the fated hour of birth, a young Hubris and that irresistible, unconquerable, unholy spirit, Recklessness, and for the household black Curses, which resemble their parents. - John M. Allegro, The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the GIFT of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38 </font>
The same Paul wrote:
- <font color=blue>Hagios (g40) hag'-ee-os; from hagos , (an awful thing) [comp. 53, 2282]; sacred (phys. pure, mor. blameless or religious, cer. CONSECRATED): - (most) holy (one, thing), saint
Hagnos (g53) hag-nos'; from the same as 40; prop. CLEAN, i.e. (fig.) innocent, modest, perfect: - chaste, clean, pure. </font>
The word "conscience" also means CONSIOUSNESS. Only by having OUR conscience MADE HOLY or cleared can we have A CLEAR CONSIOUSNESS of God and His Word. This word means A co-perception. You don't let God in until HE has swept out the 'demons.'
- <font color=blue>Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for A clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 1 Peter 3:21 </font>
Now, take a look at First Corinthians and grasp that the word "spirit" is never capitalized for us and SPIRIT in both Hebrew and Greek speaks of either God Who is Holy or WHOLLY Spirit without body parts.
- <font color=blue>Let us draw near with a TRUE HEART in full assurance of faith, having our HEARTS sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Heb.10:22
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are SANCTIFIED, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and BY the Spirit of our God. 1Co.6:11
Hagiazo (g37) hag-ee-ad'-zo; from 40; to make holy, i.e. (cer.) purify or consecrate; (MENTALLY) to venerate: - hallow, be holy, sanctify. </font>
That CANNOT mean that we are the SAME Spirit Being but that we have one MENTAL DISPOSITION which is what SPIRIT means unless it applies to God Who does not have a SEPARATED Spirit.
- <font color=blue>But he that is joined unto the Lord is ONE SPIRIT. 1 Cor 6:17 </font>
THE holy spirit is YOUR SPIRIT which has been MADE holy only at the time and place of baptism.
- <font color=blue> Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against HIS OWN BODY 1 Cor 6:18
What? know ye not that your body is the TEMPLE of the HOLY SPIRIT which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 1 Cor 6:19
For ye are BOUGHT with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in YOUR SPIRIT, which are Gods. 1 Cor 6:20 </font>
One of the clearest opinions in scholarly history is that Paul NEVER speaks of the Holy Spirit as a "person" separated from the one God. Spirit is the spirit OF Christ where SPIRIT in both Hebrew and Greek speaks of the spirit OF or the mental disposition OF someone:
Our spirit is our heart or OUR MIND. Spirit seaks of the MENTAL DISPOSITION of our MIND.
- <font color=blue>And be renewed in the spirit OF your mind; Ep.4:23 </font>
ALL speaking in tongues was to VALIDATE the Apostles and not to SAVE an individual. "These signs SHALL FOLLOW THEM." Therefore, we never hear a MALE speaking in tongues outside of the presence of an apostle: Cornelius had been LIFTED UP by Peter. There is no example of any FEMALE speaking in tongues other than in Corinth and this was speaking DIALECTS or languages and Paul told them to stop it.
- <font color=blue> Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in ONE spirit, with ONE MIND striving together for the faith of the gospel; Ph.1:27
For God hath not given us the spirit OF fear; but of power, and of love, and of a SOUND MIND. 2Ti.1:7 </font>
If one claims that THE HOLY SPIRIT literally lives in their carnal body then they claim that God would live in a polluted TEMPLE. It would also claim to be EQUAL to the Incarnation in Jesus Christ. And so many do.
<font size=3>EXPLAIN GENERIC AND SPECIFIC AUTHORITY</font>NEW posts will be on the last page, page 4 for now.
Source: Bible Infonet/Firm Foundation
Q&A: Who is dividing the church, and why do some leave the faith?Joseph D. Meador
The church is deluged with denominational attitudes. Sectarian teaching has found its way into many pulpits and into the classrooms in many of our schools and universities.
John gives us an apostolic view of the causes of such apostasy. "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us" (1 John 2:19). Guy N. Woods has aptly portrayed:
They became apostates from the fold by going out. They were not 'of' the disciples, i.e., they did not possess the same spirit of obedience characteristic of the disciples, for if 'they had they would have continued with' the disciples. In apostatizing from the faith, they were 'made manifest' (shown to be not of the disciples).
Others, like those of this text, adopt false and heretical doctrines, forsake the church, and make shipwreck concerning the faith (1 Tim. 1:19).
The Bible presents varied reasons for the infection and spread of the disease of apostasy. Why do some leave the faith?
Deception is one reason for division. Paul noted that false teachers of Corinth posed as pious and informed brethren, yet because of their lack of true Bible knowledge, were void of spirituality (1 Tim. 1:19-20; 6:4; 2 Cor. 11:14-15).
He further says that such impostors feigned Christian maturity:
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore, it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works (2 Cor. 11:14-15).
The Bible points out that many will be deceived into believing doctrinal error because they choose to follow personalities rather than the teaching of Christ (2 Tim. 4:1 ff; Matt.7:21-23).). During the premillennial heresy of the '20s end '30s, many were deceived by "that sweet- spirited preacher," R.H. Boll. In the mid-'30s, K.C. Moser advocated "unmerited grace" which placed more emphasis upon the "personal" Jesus than upon his doctrine. Obedience was minimized. Many followed Moser because he showed an irenic spirit, however contrived that spirit might have been. Some remember the "kind and meek" attitude which was displayed by the leader of the modern "Unity in Diversity" movement, W. Carl Ketcherside, though at times he exhibited a vicious spirit.
There are convincing personalities in this generation who are using the same strategy to draw away many disciples into accepting their favorite theories of grace only, and change of the unchangeable, and mutating the immutable. (The essential elements of the church, which is the body of Jesus, cannot be altered without destroying it. Instead of being the bride of Christ it becomes a harlot.)
The desire for pre-eminence is a driving force among some "professing" Christians who are bent on a course of control. Some have ventured so far in their quest for power that they encourage congregational rebellion in an attempt to "change" and "reform."
The apostle John recounted to Gaius the sad state to which Diotrephes had fallen in loving preeminence (3 John 9). Diotrephes wanted to be the petted and pampered. He refused to receive the apostle John as a brother in Christ. No doubt, Diotrephes thought he had risen to new heights of spirituality.
When the goal is control, the end always justifies the means. Such a perverted spirit would rather rip apart the body of Christ rather than mend; divide rather than graft; and, split apart rather than seam.
Some in the church despise doctrine and seek to amend the will of God to make it mold and conform to their notion of "progressive" Christianity. The Bible says we should attend to sound doctrine, continue in it, and hold steadfastly to it (1 Tim. 4:6; 1 Tim. 4:16; 2 Cor. 2:17; Titus 2:7, 12; 2 Tim. 1:13; Titus 1:9; 2:1).
Truth does not divide. It is incapable of division. When the hammer of error falls on the wedge of discord, it recoils against the seasoned stone of faith, but fragments the unstable sandstone of human ambition. Error and weakness are the cause of division.
We cannot walk in fellowship with those who have gone out from us, even though they were once of us (1 John 1:7; 2:19).
(Joseph D. Meador is the director of the Southwest School of Bible Studies, an excellent institution for the training of men who aspire to preach the Word. He may be contacted by calling  282-2438.)
True, we do not receive the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit today.<font size=4>CAN WE RECEIVE MIRACULOUS GIFTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT TODAY? </font>
<font color=indigo>Dear Allen:
The twelve apostles of Christ were baptized in the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost following the ascension of Christ. That brought to their remembrance the message of Christ (John 14:26) and it enabled them to speak that message in languages they had not previously known (Acts 2:4-11). Additionally it gave them the power to perform certain miraculous signs that confirmed their message as being from God (Mk. 16:20). Although everyone who confessed Christ, repented and was baptized received the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38) that did not provide them those miraculous powers that the apostles enjoyed.
The people of Samaria heard and accepted the preaching of Philip. They were baptized (Acts 8:12), but it was necessary for an apostle to come and lay hands on them before they could receive the supernatural powers (Acts 8:15-17). That they did not lay hands on every one is seen in the case of Simon the Sorcerer who, although baptized, did not receive the laying on of hands (Acts 8:18-19). The apostles had laid their hands on Philip along with the other deacons at the time of their appointment (Acts 6:1-6). That enabled Philip to preach with the knowledge the Spirit provided and to confirm his message with signs, but he cold not pass this gift along to those whom he converted. That is why Peter and John, apostles, had to journey to Samaria to lay their hands on newly baptized converts to give them the miraculous gifts of the Spirit.
As to the cessation of the supernatural gifts: The apostles received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which empowered them with the ability to do miraculous deeds. They laid their hands on selected disciples to empower them. The second generation, those upon whom hands were laid, could not pass the gift along; they had to call upon an apostle to do that. Thus when the last of the twelve apostles died, there was no one left who could lay hands on another to impart the Spirit's gifts.
When the last disciples died, upon whom the hands of an apostle had been laid, the supernatural gifts ceased to be exhibited among Christians.</font>
John Waddey, Editor
Christianity: Then and Now
<font size=3><font size=3>EXPLAIN GENERIC AND SPECIFIC AUTHORITY</font>
<font color=blue>Bro. Waddey:
Could you please enlighten me on the term "generic Bible authority?" I have heard that term used before and I am not sure that I have a full understanding of what it means! Martin</font>
<font color=blue>Dear Bro. Martin: </font>
The word generic derives from our word general. It is the opposite of specific. Thus, generic authority is general authority without specific details being given.
For example: Christ said, "Go preach the gospel" (Mk. 16:15). No instructions are given about how we are to go. So we conclude we are authorized to go by car or bus, plane or train, by foot or bicycle ... on the basis of this generic authority. But when Christ said preach "the gospel," that specifies what we are to preach. I have specific authority to preach the gospel of Christ and that excludes the doctrines and commandments of men, human philosophy, psychology, etc.
A specific command excludes all others. For example, Christ said "Go make disciples...baptizing them" (Matt. 28:19). The word baptize is a verb with specific meaning. It means to immerse. Thus this specific command necessarily excludes sprinkling, pouring, or any other type of actions.
The command to "work that which is good to all men" (Gal. 6:10) is generic or general. It sets forth an obligation without specifying any particular means for fulfilling it. Thus we are free to use many methods in ministering to our neighbors and yet do so by the generic authority Christ has given us.
These concepts are especially important when we come to the question of praising God. The Scripture says "speaking to one another in psalms, hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord" (Eph. 5:19). Since there are three possible ways to make music: vocal music, instrumental music and a combination of the two kinds, when God specified one of them, it excludes the others. To sing is very specific, thus we are limited to that way of expressing our praise.
These points will be useful to you a thousand times as you study and seek a correct application of the words of the Savior. I hope this brief study has been helpful.
John Waddey, Editor
Christianity: Then and Now
<font size=3 color=indigo face=Times New Roman>David,When God specifically tells us what he wants us to do, all other alternatives are thereby prohibited.
There is no more specific commandments than those that lay out the worship at the temple. It is spelled out in great detail. Who, How, When, Where and more.
Jesus lived under the Old Testament law. Nothing else was authorized. If When God specifically tells us what he wants us to do, all other alternatives are thereby prohibited. Then did Jesus sin by taking part in the Synagogue worship?
Luke 4:20-22 (King James Version)
15And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
22And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?