Psalm 74: [Fruits and Burning] A spiritual picture/type of the last days church

Joined: September 18th, 2005, 4:26 am

October 11th, 2005, 9:30 pm #1


A Maskil of Asaph.

O God, why hast Thou rejected {us} forever? Why does Thine anger smoke against the sheep of Thy pasture?
2 Remember Thy congregation, which Thou have purchased of old, Which Thou hast redeemed to be the tribe of Thy inheritance; {And} this Mount Zion, where Thou hast dwelt.
3 Turn Thy footsteps toward the perpetual ruins; The enemy has damaged everything within the sanctuary.
4 Your adversaries have roared in the midst of Thy meeting place; They have set up their own standards for signs.
5 It seems as if one had lifted up {His} axe in a forest of trees.
6 And now all its carved work They smash with hatchet and hammers.
7 They have burned Thy sanctuary to the ground; They have defiled the dwelling place of Thy name.
8 They said in their heart, "Let us completely subdue them." They have burned all the meeting places of God in the land.
9 We do not see our signs; There is no longer any prophet, Nor is there any among us who knows how long.
10 How long, O God, will the adversary revile, {And} the enemy spurn Thy name forever?
11 Why dost Thou withdraw Thy hand, even Thy right hand? From within Thy bosom, destroy {them!}

12 Yet God is my king from of old, Who works deeds of deliverance in the midst of the earth.
13 Thou divided the sea by Thy strength; Thou broke the heads of the sea monsters in the waters.
14 Thou crushed the heads of Leviathan; Thou gave him as food for the creatures of the wilderness.
15 Thou broke open springs and torrents; Thou dried up ever-flowing streams.
16 Thine is the day, Thine also is the night; Thou have prepared the light and the sun.
17 Thou hast established all the boundaries of the earth; Thou hast made summer and winter.

18 Remember this, O LORD, that the enemy has reviled, And a foolish people has spurned Your name.
19 Do not deliver the soul of Thy turtledove to the wild beast; Do not forget the life of Thine afflicted forever.
20 Consider the covenant; For the dark places of the land are full of the habitations of violence.
21 Let not the oppressed return dishonored; Let the afflicted and needy praise Thy name.

22 Arise, O God, {and} plead Thine own cause; Remember how the foolish man reproaches Thee all day long.
23 Do not forget the voice of Thine adversaries, The uproar of those who rise against Thee which ascends continually.
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on February 26th, 2017, 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

October 15th, 2005, 7:23 pm #2

<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>J.C.:

We would like to hear your expository remarks about why Psalm 74 is/may be considered a spiritual picture of the last days’ church.

Do you define “church” here in general terms as a unit that encompasses all of the “Christian” religions (regardless of denominational heritage or background), an embodiment of Christianity and the Christendom, versus other religious ideologies, such as Islam, Buddhism, Shinto-ism, Scientism, Hinduism, etc.?

Or, are you referring to “the church in the last days” specifically as the church that Christ spoke of in Matthew 16:18ff and that was established in Jerusalem at Pentecost (Acts 1; 2ff).

Does the mention of “congregations” in v. 4 [KJV, etc.] and “synagogues of God” in v. 8 [KJV, etc.] have anything to do with equating the scenario with the “last days’ church” per your definition?

Please provide certain passages in the New Testament that convey a parallel message to what Psalm 74 portrays.

Thank you for your response,


Joined: September 18th, 2005, 4:26 am

October 16th, 2005, 2:27 am #3

Hello Donnie:

I hope all is well with you and yours and everyone here.

Let's take a look at Mark 4:

"And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?" (Mark 4:13).

When studying God's Word, believers must be extremely careful how they handle it (2 Timothy 2:5). Even when reading or studying the Old Testament we must ask ourselves how does this apply to us today? (2 Timothy 3:15-17); but also, and on the other hand we must be careful not to read something into a parable or verse that isn't there.

There are three main principles involved in comparing scripture:

a.) We must look to see if what we are studying points to any aspect or teaching concerning God's plan of salvation.
b.) We must let the Bible be its own interpreter
c.) Every conclusion we arrive at must agree with the rest of the Bible

Looking at the first principle we must remember to notice if God is teaching some truth about salvation. This may not always be apparent at first glance. For example, the three days Jonah spent in the belly of the fish are a spiritual portrait of the three days Jesus was in the "heart of the earth" between Gethsemene and the resurrection. There are many other examples.

Now concerning parables in the Old Testament, for instance: the rock Moses struck was symbolic of the eternal church. Moses was a "type" of Christ and Aaron, wearing the mitre on his forehead as he went about his priestly duties was a picture of our LORD Jesus Christ being set apart to be our sin bearer:

"And it shall be upon Aaron's forehead, that Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things, which the children of Israel shall hallow in all their holy gifts; and it shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before the LORD." (Exodus 28:38).

Elijah was a "type" or portrait of John the Baptist (Malachi 4:3); Joshua, Job and David also were spiritual pictures pointing to Christ in many ways. When we look at and study the fig tree we see it is used spiritually to describe the nation of Israel. So when we study a passage we must not only look to its literal meaning, but also see if it somehow points to some aspect of God's salvation.

The Bible is its own divine commentary. Should someone not understand the meaning of a certain word, it is often very helpful to look and see where in the Bible that same word in used elsewhere using a concordance. For example, if someone had trouble understanding a verse where the word "elect" is used, they could go to a concordance and see that it is used 20 times in the King James Bible and the look at the other verses to see how it is used elsewhere and possibly get a better understanding of the word. Because any conclusion we come to must agree with the rest of the Bible. For example, the often quoted verse of John 3:16 tells us that whosoever believes in the LORD Jesus Christ will have eternal life. But look at James 2:19 which says that even evil spirits believe and tremble. How do we reconcile the fact that these demons believe? We must look at the entire Bible. We also know the demons will not be saved from Matthew 25:41 and 2 Peter 2:4; so therefore James, Peter and Matthew are also in harmony!

Now getting back to Psalm 74, you had asked about the definition of "church". I believe the Bible speaks of the "church" in two different ways:

(1) There is the universal church, consisting of every true child of God, as in Matthew 16:18; Ephesians 1:22 and Colossians 1:18.
(2) Most of the time however, EKKLESIA is used of local congregations which are usually a mixture of true believers and hypocrites (wheat and tares) For example, the plural usage as in Galatians 1:2 points to all the congregations or assemblies throughout the providence of Galatia.

As time permits, please look at Psalm 79 and perhaps you will agree that like Psalm 74, in many ways it is speaking very much to this very day and what we see before our own eyes as with agonize watching church after church fall away.

joy in Christ

Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

October 16th, 2005, 7:06 pm #4

J.C. often opens up a LINK into the SPIRIT of the text and old Piney has to go digging. So, I will post my findings on Psalm 74 but for now, here is a FRAME upon which to hang what J.C. has opened for us. Feel free to hang any thoughts: this is THE meaning of SYNAGOGUING.

Psa 74:OGod, why hast thou cast us off for ever?
.....why doth thine anger smoke against the sheep of thy pasture?

Psa 74:2 Remember thy congregation,
.....which thou hast purchased of old;
.....the rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed;
.....this mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt.

After Israel turned to Musical Idolatry God TURNED THEM OVER to worship the starry host (Stephen, Acts 7, etc.,, etc.) When the elders FIRED God He finally abandoned them to what was clearly the worship of the ASTRIAL deities rather than God in the Temple.

God ordained the ASSEMBLY or QAHAL or synagogue or "church in the wilderness" for READING or REHEARSING the Word of God. They were not to CALL or ASSEMBLE with the rowdy use of INSTRUMENTS and MAKING A JOYFUL NOISE BEFORE THE LORD: This was the Warrior's Panic Song and thus ONLY Levites could sing or blow the trumpets. The "assembly" under perhaps a dozen names was the DIRECT COMMAND for all "civilian" Israelites as the TEMPLE-STATE and the SACRIFICIAL SYSTEM was a NATIONAL or MILITARY institution: the temple was the King's Shrine as in ALL NATIONS. Nevertheless, even in the VILEST pagan temple the singers and musicians could NOT enter into the Holy Place (type of church) even to clean out garbage without getting executed.

The SYNAGOGUE therefore existed even in the wilderness althogh it was not institutonalized until the RETURN where the TEMPLE disappears from the Jew's use shortly thereafter:

Jos.8:35 There was not a word of all that Moses commanded, which Joshua READ NOT before all the congregation of Israel, with the women, and the little ones, and the strangers that were conversant among them.

Ne.13:1 ON that day they READ in the book of Moses in the audience of the people; and therein was found written, that the Ammonite and the Moabite should not come into the congregation of God for ever;

Ac.15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that PREACH him, being READ in the synagogues every sabbath day.

[That is why even Gentiles were not ignorant of the Law]. Long after Pentecost the MEANING of Ekklesia or church was to READ the word as Paul commanded Timothy.

2Co.3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is READ, the vail is upon their heart.

They were blinded AT MOUNT SINAI and would not SEE or DISCERN the Black Text on white paper until they TURNED to the Lord.

Psa 74:3 Lift up thy feet unto the perpetual desolations;
.....even all that the enemy hath done wickedly in the sanctuary.

Psa 74:4 Thine enemies roar the midst of thy congregations;
.....they set up their ensigns for signs.

Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the Lord, neither consider the operation of his hands.

Isa 5:13 Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge: and their honourable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst.

Isa 5:14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

Isa 5:15 And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled:

Isa 5:29 Their roaring shall be like a lion, they shall roar like young lions; yea, they shall roar, and lay hold of the prey, and shall carry it away safe, and none shall deliver it.

Isa 5:30 And in that day they shall roar against them like the roaring of the sea: and if one look unto the land, behold darkness and sorrow, and the light is darkened in the heavens thereof.

Isa 6:1 IN the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
Zec.11:3 There is a voice of the howling of the shepherds; for their glory is spoiled: a voice of the roaring of young lions; for the pride of Jordan is spoiled.

Psa 74:5 A man was famous according he had lifted up axes upon the thick trees.

Psa 74:6 But now they break down
.....the carved work thereof at once with axes and hammers.

Psa 74:7 They have cast fire into thy sanctuary, t
.....hey have defiled by casting down
.....the dwelling place of thy name to the ground.

Chalal (h2490) khaw-lal'; a prim. root [comp. 2470]; prop. to bore, i. e. (by impl.) to wound, to dissolve; fig. to profane (a person, place or thing), to break (one's word), to begin (as if by an "opening wedge"); denom. (from 2485) to play (the flute): - begin (* men began), defile, * break, defile, * eat (as common things), * first, * gather the grape thereof, * take inheritance, pipe, player on instruments, pollute, (cast as) profane (self), prostitute, slay (slain), sorrow, stain, wound.

Psa 74:8 They said in their hearts,
.....Let us destroy them together:
.....they have burned up all the synagogues of God in the land.

Rubel Shelly makes a HA HA about the AZTEC Jubilee patternism where they BURNED DOWN the "churches" ever so often and RELIT the fires.

Psa 74:9 We see not our signs:
.....there is no more any prophet:
.....neither is there among us any that knoweth how long.

Psa 74:10 O God, how long shall the adversary reproach?
.....shall the enemy blaspheme thy name for ever?

Psa 74:11 Why withdrawest thou thy hand, even thy right hand? pluck it out of thy bosom.

Psa 74:12 For God is my King of old,
.....working salvation in the midst of the earth.

Psa 74:13 Thou didst divide the sea by thy strength:
.....thou brakest the heads of the dragons in the waters.

Psa 74:14 Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces,
.....and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.

Psa 74:15 Thou didst cleave the fountain and the flood:
.....thou driedst up mighty rivers.

Psa 74:16 The day is thine, the night also is thine:
.....thou hast prepared the light and the sun.

Psa 74:17 Thou hast set all the borders of the earth:
.....thou hast made summer and winter.

Psa 74:18 Remember this, that the enemy hath reproached, O Lord,
.....and that the foolish people have blasphemed thy name.

Psa 74:19 O deliver not the soul
.....of thy turtledove unto the multitude of the wicked:
.....forget not the congregation of thy poor for ever.

Psa 74:20 Have respect
.....unto the covenant: for the dark places of the earth
.....are full of the habitations of cruelty.

Psa 74:21 O let not the oppressed return ashamed:
.....let the poor and needy praise thy name.

The POOR or DEPRESSED derives from a word meaning RESPONSIVE SINGING which was almost always MOCKING to BROWBEAT people. 6030 means to sing, speak, shout or testify to AFFLICT. The RICH AND FAMOUS are SUCKED IN by pagan churches but it is the POOR Jesus died for.

NO DUMBO, this is NOT a ritualistic PRAISE service. The word really means to ABASE yourself.

Psa 74:22 Arise, O God, plead thine own cause:
.....remember how the foolish man reproacheth thee daily.

Cherphah (h2781) kher-paw'; from 2778; contumely, disgrace, the pudenda: - rebuke, reproach (-fully), shame.

Prophesying of the MOCKING with Jesus which was by the Warrior Musicians, caused Jesus to be stripped bare. However, He would win in th end:

Ps.22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

Paul OUTLAWED pleasuring for the SYNAGOGUE as the solution to the DIVERSE opinions of men. This word means to AROUSE or LIFT up with excitement by the use of AROUSAL singing. The words are linked to HERESY where the DEMAGOGUES used music to USE the people for his own profit.

Ro.15:3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

Heb.10:33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.

This means in a THEATRICAL ritual.

Psa 74:23 Forget not the voice of thine enemies:
.....the tumult of those that rise up against thee increaseth continually.
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on February 20th, 2017, 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Joined: February 11th, 2016, 11:16 pm

December 3rd, 2016, 11:56 pm #5

It is expedient that we learn how to discern the words that the mind of Christ gave us. I read a instruction "manual" on how to read the bible, and the first thing it said was to pray that The Lord guide you as you study His word. Very wise instructions, so I wanted to pass it on to others.


February 10th, 2017, 12:43 am #6

I have found that words are best understood in their setting and Biblical context. Context is chiefly related to the paragraph and then to the particular book. Only then should we go to other books to find further meaning.


February 13th, 2017, 5:08 pm #7

If you believe that "everything happens for a reason" then we can apply that to recent changes to those who post on Concerned Members.

I believe that this will cut out a lot of "noise." Perhaps we can center our minds on building knowledge of the Written Word without as much distraction.

Those who wish to express views elsewhere may find great comfort in doing that.

House of Gold
House of Gold

February 20th, 2017, 3:45 pm #8

Marvelous find from Hank Williams, Willie Nelson, and Dierks Bintley

People steal, they cheat and lie
For wealth and what it will buy
Don't they know on the judgment day
That their gold and silver will melt away

I'd rather be in a deep, dark grave
And know that my poor soul was saved
Than to live in this world in a house of gold
And deny my God and doom my soul

Jesus said ,come on to me
I'll break sin's chains and set you free
I'll carry you to a home on high
Where you'll never, never die

What good is gold and silver, too
When your heart's not good and true
Sinner hear me when I say
Fall down on your knees and pray

Jesus died there on the cross
So this world would not be lost
Sinner hear now what I say
For someday you ll have to pay

What good is gold and silver too
If your heart's not good and true
Sinner, hear me when I say
Fall down on your knees and pray

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

February 20th, 2017, 5:44 pm #9

Throughout history song writers, poets and artists had no trouble understanding the Word.

Psa. 84:1 How amiable are thy tabernacles, O LORD of hosts!
Psa. 84:2 My soul longeth, yea, even fainteth for the courts of the LORD:
my heart and my flesh crieth out for the living God.

Psa. 84:3 Yea, the sparrow hath found an house, and the swallow a nest for herself,
where she may lay her young, even thine altars, O LORD of hosts, my King, and my God.
Psa. 84:4 Blessed are they that dwell in thy house: [family]
they will be still praising thee. Selah.

Psa. 84:5 Blessed is the man whose strength is in thee; in whose heart are the ways of them.
Psa. 84:6 Who passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools.
Psa. 84:7 They go from strength to strength, every one of them in Zion appeareth before God.

Psa. 84:8 O LORD God of hosts, hear my prayer: give ear, O God of Jacob. Selah.
Psa. 84:9 Behold, O God our shield, and look upon the face of thine anointed.
Psa. 84:10 For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand.
I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God,
than to dwell in the tents of wickedness.

Psa. 84:11 For the LORD God is a sun and shield:
the LORD will give grace and glory:
no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.

Psa. 84:12 O LORD of hosts, blessed is the man that trusteth in thee.


February 20th, 2017, 11:56 pm #10

The "House of Gold" song appears on the Internet with NO VIDEO--just the sound or audio, which one can listen to and get the entire striking message. This requires no video to get the powerful message.

This message is not expressible in pictures, but it is expressed in words.

When I go to worship, and I see three crosses on the screen during the Lord's Supper, I would have no idea what they mean or the significance of them without the Word explaining the power of the cross. According to 1 Corinthians 1 this is a result of the power of preaching that cross. The crosses appear when I am trying to "examine myself" but this pictures interfere with my self-examination.

The power is not in the picture of the crosses. In fact, I sometimes feel like a hostage or what they call a "captive audience" when I see such visuals.

When I see the picture of the three crosses, this is sometimes in a church building that has no cross on the wall facing the audience. But it is possible to present it on the screen. The previous preacher was fired [likely] at the same time he pressed for a "praise team" [fancy Church of Christ expression for "choral group" or "choir"] but not until after he had placed a cross on the sign outside the church building. He is gone, the cross on the outside side remains.

So many preachers come and go, but their debris is often left behind. . . .