Prominent Change (Discord) Agent: Jeff Walling—on Instrumental Music

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

July 1st, 2006, 11:12 pm #1

<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>Here’s the latest news on the ecumenical move to “unite” churches of Christ with the Christian Church. Now we know for sure where Jeff Walling of the Providence Road Church of Christ in Charlotte, N.C., really stands on instrumental music. We’ve posted articles regarding this change agent before.

Remember—history repeats itself. If this merger attempt succeeds, time will come that the church will split again just because certain church leaders are around to please others instead of God. Yeah, right, unity with the Christian Church on their terms?</font>
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    <font class="option" style="font-size: 10pt">By Bobby Ross Jr.
    The Christian Chronicle

    LOUISVILLE, KY. – In an emotional display of love and acceptance, several prominent leaders of a cappella Churches of Christ and instrumental Christian Churches exchanged personal Bibles at the North American Christian Convention on Thursday night.

    Keynote speaker Jeff Walling, pulpit minister of the Providence Road Church of Christ in Charlotte, N.C., challenged the roughly 7,000 people who packed the Kentucky International Convention Center to go home and do the same.

    “Are you willing to go home and shape the future of our brotherhood for our children by reaching out because of grace to say, ‘I love you in the name of Jesus Christ, brother?’” Walling asked the crowd. “And if somebody says, ‘Well, he’s a brother in error,’ you tell him, ‘Do we have any other kind?’

    “We are all in error,” Walling added. “That’s why we come every Sunday to say, ‘God, forgive us.”

    Almost everyone in the audience – which convention organizers said included as many as 1,000 members of a cappella congregations – stood and accepted the challenge.

    The dramatic exchange of Bibles capped the third, and final, night of the North American Christian Convention, an annual meeting of instrumental Christian Churches.

    With the theme “Together in Christ,” the convention has focused this week on fostering better relations between the instrumental and a cappella fellowships after a century of division. 2006 marks the 100th anniversary of a 1906 federal census that first reported the two Restoration Movement groups as separate bodies.

    Today, the a cappella churches report about 1.3 million baptized members in the U.S., slightly more than the instrumental churches’ 1.2 million. Both groups believe that Jesus is Lord, baptize for remission of sins and offer the Lord’s Supper each Sunday. But instrumental music remains a deeply divisive topic, as some members of Churches of Christ consider it a salvation issue.

    Thursday night’s session mixed instrumental and a cappella hymns as praise teams from the Richland Hills Church of Christ in North Richland Hills, Texas, and the Southside Christian Church in Orlando, Fla, performed together.

    Keith Lancaster from the group Acappella led a non-instrumental rendition of “Awesome God,” followed by both praise teams singing a modern-day “Rock of Ages,” accompanied by a piano, drums, electric guitars, a trombone, a trumpet and tambourines.

    In a message titled “Together in God’s Grace,” Walling said that he, too, once believed that a cappella singing was the only way to worship. But he said God helped him grow to understand that grace, not perfect doctrine, saves Christians. Members of both fellowships have suffered, he said, from “we’ve got it right” disease and “legalism deep in our veins.”

    Walling recalled that his mother always taught him to be nice to strangers. “So, for years, that’s what I’ve done with folks in the independent Christian Churches,” he joked.

    But he declared, “The time for being nice is over. It’s time to be family. … Nice is easy. Family is a mess. Family is loving and sacrificing. Family is trying to compromise without being compromised.”

    Walling presented his worn personal Bible – which his 89-year-old mother, Mildred, gave him in memory of his deceased “earthly father,” T.J. Walling – to Dave Stone, minister of the Southeast Christian Church in Louisville and Wednesday night’s keynote speaker.

    “I want to tell you tonight, you are my brother,” Walling, wiping tears from his eyes, said to Stone.

    Stone handed Walling his own Bible and told him, “The great thing about these Bibles is that they are exactly the same. They are the same translation. They are God’s word.”

    Among a cappella church members who participated in the Bible exchange were ministers Marvin Phillips and Jerry Taylor as well as Abilene Christian University President Royce Money and Rochester College President Mike Westerfield.

    Also exchanging Bibles were the praise teams from the Richland Hills Church of Christ and the Southside Christian Church.

    Dave Faust, president of the North American Christian Convention, said he hopes the gesture will be repeated by members of both fellowships across the nation.

    “This is a gesture of friendship and kinship, a way of saying, ‘I’m trying the best I can to teach God’s word with all my heart and I know that’s what you’re trying to do, too,’” Faust told The Christian Chronicle. “I just think it’ll be something that could be replicated in local communities one on one – no coercion, nobody merging things or trying to force anything on anyone.”

    COMING IN THE AUGUST PRINT ISSUE OF THE CHRISTIAN CHRONICLE: Complete coverage of the North American Christian Convention and a Dialogue interview with Alan Highers on the instrumental music issue.

    </font>
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<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>John Waddey says: “It says in words that cannot be gainsaid what we have been speaking of for the last 5 years [ed: on the change movement]. Read it and weep.

“Now you know what Jeff Walling really believes. Now you know where Royce Money of Abilene Christian University is trying to lead us. Now you know the inclination of the staff of the Christian Chronicle which is owned and operated by Oklahoma Christian University. Is this what you wish for the church of Christ, of which you are a member? Will you sit silent while this apostasy sweeps over our brotherhood or will you stand up for Jesus and his church?”</font>
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

July 2nd, 2006, 3:17 am #2

"Religion Today"
  • <font color=red>by Murray Evans (AP, March 30, 2006)

    New York, USA - The turning point for Jeff Walling came two decades ago at a church youth conference. Sitting with arms folded, he listened to 3,000 teenagers singing and praising God with a guitar accompaniment - and felt ashamed.</font>
It is a fact well known by the "serpent" or NACHASH in the garden of Eden that music ENCHANTS or is SORCERY. The Nachash means a Musical Enchanter. He/she is identified as the king/queen of Trye who is said to have been in EDEN and is called the "singing and harp playing prostitute." PRAISE singing is the world's oldest, most ignorant and superstitious legalism: they BELIEVE that they can influence the gods because they perform something magical like sorcery on humans willing to pay them so they don't have to work.

Lucifer came into the garden with wind, string and percussion instruments.

Therefore, the truth is OUTED: they instrumentalis did a NUMBER on Jeff Walling who as a "theatrical type" was more susceptible. Jesus called all of the religious performers HYPOCRITES and so the Greek language demands.

Speaking directly to the "mantic" behaviour of music and speaking in tongues in Corinth, it is noted from the Classical writers that:
  • <font color=blue>"The spirits were thought to speak in murmurings or piping sounds (Isa 8:19), which could be imitated by the medium (witch or ventriloquist)...Most spiritual and popular was the interpretation of dreams.

    It also was the case that mediums intentionally would convert themselves into a semi-waking trance. In this way the suitable mediums attained to a certain kind of clarvoyance, found among various peoples.

    This approaches the condition of an ecstatically aroused pseudo-prophet.. In Greece, too, oracles were pronounced by the Phythian prophetess who by vapors and the like was aroused to a practice of the mantic art. (Int Std Bible Ency, p. 2466)

    Plato Symposium 215c

    "For I say that he is likest to the Silenus-figures that sit in the statuaries' shops; those, I mean, which our craftsmen make with pipes or flutes in their hands: when their two halves are pulled open, they are found to contain images of GODS.

    And I further suggest that he resembles the SATYR Marsyas.

    "Now, as to your likeness, Socrates, to these in figure, I do not suppose even you yourself will dispute it; but I have next to tell you that you are like them in every other respect.

    "You are a fleering fellow, eh? If you will not confess it, I have witnesses at hand. Are you not a PIPER?

    Why, yes, and a far more marvellous one than the satyr. His lips indeed had power to ENTRANCE mankind by means of instruments; a thing still possible today for anyone who can PIPE his tunes: or the music of Olympus' flute belonged, I may tell you, to Marsyas his teacher.

    "So that if anyone, whether a fine flute-player or paltry flute-girl, can but flute his tunes, they have no equal for exciting a RAVISHMENT, and will indicate (prophesy) by the divinity that is in them who are apt recipients of the deities and their sanctifications.

    You differ from him in one point only--that you produce the same effect with simple prose unaided by instruments. </font>
The story of The Book of Enoch is that when you are SEDUCED into connecting MUSIC with God you have fallen and you will never get up. That is Satan's business and like Crack Cocain, he can HOOK you with one sting.

Remember that the MUSES in the book of Revelation are the LOCUSTS: they lull you to sleep and have SCORPION'S STINGERS in their tail and they can STING YOU TO DEATH in one shot. Jeff has fallen and cannot get up.
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Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

July 2nd, 2006, 4:20 am #3

<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>Here’s the latest news on the ecumenical move to “unite” churches of Christ with the Christian Church. Now we know for sure where Jeff Walling of the Providence Road Church of Christ in Charlotte, N.C., really stands on instrumental music. We’ve posted articles regarding this change agent before.

Remember—history repeats itself. If this merger attempt succeeds, time will come that the church will split again just because certain church leaders are around to please others instead of God. Yeah, right, unity with the Christian Church on their terms?</font>
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    <font class="option" style="font-size: 15pt">News - Instrumental, a cappella church leaders exchange Bibles in show of acceptance</font></td></tr>
    <tr><td colspan="2" bgcolor="#ffffff">
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    <font class="option" style="font-size: 10pt">By Bobby Ross Jr.
    The Christian Chronicle

    LOUISVILLE, KY. – In an emotional display of love and acceptance, several prominent leaders of a cappella Churches of Christ and instrumental Christian Churches exchanged personal Bibles at the North American Christian Convention on Thursday night.

    Keynote speaker Jeff Walling, pulpit minister of the Providence Road Church of Christ in Charlotte, N.C., challenged the roughly 7,000 people who packed the Kentucky International Convention Center to go home and do the same.

    “Are you willing to go home and shape the future of our brotherhood for our children by reaching out because of grace to say, ‘I love you in the name of Jesus Christ, brother?’” Walling asked the crowd. “And if somebody says, ‘Well, he’s a brother in error,’ you tell him, ‘Do we have any other kind?’

    “We are all in error,” Walling added. “That’s why we come every Sunday to say, ‘God, forgive us.”

    Almost everyone in the audience – which convention organizers said included as many as 1,000 members of a cappella congregations – stood and accepted the challenge.

    The dramatic exchange of Bibles capped the third, and final, night of the North American Christian Convention, an annual meeting of instrumental Christian Churches.

    With the theme “Together in Christ,” the convention has focused this week on fostering better relations between the instrumental and a cappella fellowships after a century of division. 2006 marks the 100th anniversary of a 1906 federal census that first reported the two Restoration Movement groups as separate bodies.

    Today, the a cappella churches report about 1.3 million baptized members in the U.S., slightly more than the instrumental churches’ 1.2 million. Both groups believe that Jesus is Lord, baptize for remission of sins and offer the Lord’s Supper each Sunday. But instrumental music remains a deeply divisive topic, as some members of Churches of Christ consider it a salvation issue.

    Thursday night’s session mixed instrumental and a cappella hymns as praise teams from the Richland Hills Church of Christ in North Richland Hills, Texas, and the Southside Christian Church in Orlando, Fla, performed together.

    Keith Lancaster from the group Acappella led a non-instrumental rendition of “Awesome God,” followed by both praise teams singing a modern-day “Rock of Ages,” accompanied by a piano, drums, electric guitars, a trombone, a trumpet and tambourines.

    In a message titled “Together in God’s Grace,” Walling said that he, too, once believed that a cappella singing was the only way to worship. But he said God helped him grow to understand that grace, not perfect doctrine, saves Christians. Members of both fellowships have suffered, he said, from “we’ve got it right” disease and “legalism deep in our veins.”

    Walling recalled that his mother always taught him to be nice to strangers. “So, for years, that’s what I’ve done with folks in the independent Christian Churches,” he joked.

    But he declared, “The time for being nice is over. It’s time to be family. … Nice is easy. Family is a mess. Family is loving and sacrificing. Family is trying to compromise without being compromised.”

    Walling presented his worn personal Bible – which his 89-year-old mother, Mildred, gave him in memory of his deceased “earthly father,” T.J. Walling – to Dave Stone, minister of the Southeast Christian Church in Louisville and Wednesday night’s keynote speaker.

    “I want to tell you tonight, you are my brother,” Walling, wiping tears from his eyes, said to Stone.

    Stone handed Walling his own Bible and told him, “The great thing about these Bibles is that they are exactly the same. They are the same translation. They are God’s word.”

    Among a cappella church members who participated in the Bible exchange were ministers Marvin Phillips and Jerry Taylor as well as Abilene Christian University President Royce Money and Rochester College President Mike Westerfield.

    Also exchanging Bibles were the praise teams from the Richland Hills Church of Christ and the Southside Christian Church.

    Dave Faust, president of the North American Christian Convention, said he hopes the gesture will be repeated by members of both fellowships across the nation.

    “This is a gesture of friendship and kinship, a way of saying, ‘I’m trying the best I can to teach God’s word with all my heart and I know that’s what you’re trying to do, too,’” Faust told The Christian Chronicle. “I just think it’ll be something that could be replicated in local communities one on one – no coercion, nobody merging things or trying to force anything on anyone.”

    COMING IN THE AUGUST PRINT ISSUE OF THE CHRISTIAN CHRONICLE: Complete coverage of the North American Christian Convention and a Dialogue interview with Alan Highers on the instrumental music issue.

    </font>
    </td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table>
<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>John Waddey says: “It says in words that cannot be gainsaid what we have been speaking of for the last 5 years [ed: on the change movement]. Read it and weep.

“Now you know what Jeff Walling really believes. Now you know where Royce Money of Abilene Christian University is trying to lead us. Now you know the inclination of the staff of the Christian Chronicle which is owned and operated by Oklahoma Christian University. Is this what you wish for the church of Christ, of which you are a member? Will you sit silent while this apostasy sweeps over our brotherhood or will you stand up for Jesus and his church?”</font>
<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>Please note some of the apostates and apostasies in operation in the brotherhood—whether the congregations they “pastor” have implemented the “participation” of inanimate objects in their “musical worship.”

There must be other speakers, but Jeff Walling is mentioned in the article as keynote speaker. Oh—1,000 members of “a cappella congregations” [which is ___ percentage of the 7,000 in the audience] were some of “almost everyone in the audience” who “stood and accepted the challenge”? We’ll see about that effect of the challenge in the future. It is evident that this was a Christian Church convention.

“But instrumental music remains a deeply divisive topic, as some members of Churches of Christ consider it a salvation issue.” That’s a significant statement; and while it is true, the reality is not that it is or isn’t “a salvation issue. Rather, that it is a very severely DIVISIVE issue—it will not serve to unite … it will only further divide the body of Christ and is not worth the challenge that it is OK to implement its use.

The Richland Hills [Instrumental] Church of Christ! “Don’t drink and drive—the two don’t mix.” But “Thursday night’s session mixed instrumental and a cappella hymns as praise teams from the Richland Hills Church of Christ in North Richland Hills, Texas, and the Southside Christian Church in Orlando, Fla, performed together.” Uh-oh! PERFORMANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And “both praise teams singing a modern-day “Rock of Ages,” accompanied by a piano, drums, electric guitars, a trombone, a trumpet and tambourines.” Wow! The modern-day “Rock of Ages” must have been a “Hot Christian Rock” version—it followed after Keith Lancaster of Madison led “Awesome God.” I envision that the modern-day “Rock of Ages” was performed by the “Praise Teams” in the same manner that Keith Lancaster leads the very hot-rocky modern-day version of “It’s All Right—Just Have a Little Talk with Jesus” [clap-clap-clap, dance and swing the body to the music beat].

Another keynote speaker—Dave Stone, minister of the Southeast Christian Church in Louisville and Wednesday night’s keynote speaker; ministers Marvin Phillips and Jerry Taylor as well as Abilene Christian University President Royce Money and Rochester College President Mike Westerfield [don’t forget Rubel Shelly’s new place]; Dave Faust, president of the North American Christian Convention.

Some of the threads and a forum you should be aware of for your information:
“. . . no coercion, nobody merging things or trying to force anything on anyone….”

Really?

Donnie</font>
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Joined: June 10th, 2006, 3:36 am

July 2nd, 2006, 5:02 am #4

Forgive my ignorance, but other than instrumental music, what differences do we have with the mainstream Christian Church? If I understand correctly, they still immerse for the forgiveness of sins, each congregation is pretty much autonomys. They still have Pastors and Deacons. What are our issues with them?

You know, I was speaking with a friend today and he pointed out that there are more "differences" between various flavors of the church of Christ than there are with the mainstream CoC and the Christian Church. Dunno, I was hoping someone here could list all of the differnces (outside of public worship) that we have with them.

On another note, there are two congregations in the DFW metroplex (Dallas/Ft.Worth for y'all yankees) that have led to some of the divisions that we now face. You already mentioned Richland Hills, and while I have not come to a conclusion on everything that they do, I do know that they have pushed the boundries despite the misgivings of other christians in the area. On the otherhand, there is another church in the area that prides itself in shunning as many other churches as they can. They have let thier pride in "having it right" (although I doubt they do) push the love for fellow christians struggling to mature in Christ out the door and turned into hate mongering as seen on some of the posts on this site.

You see, the pendulum swings both ways, and on both sides (legalistic versus liberal for lack of a better word) there is error. I belive that the legalisic drives the liberal to be more liberal and vise versa. We are so afraid of "looking" like the other that we throw the baby out with the bathwater.


In Christ,

Mark F.
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Robert
Robert

July 3rd, 2006, 3:38 am #5

I agree. Having grown up CofC there are more differences between flavors of churches of Christ than there are between the churches of Christ and the Christian Church (or some Community Churches).

The funny thing is that the things that divide the churches of Christ, the great "debates of faith" that I grew up with all seem so silly now. Here are some of the things that we debated (and divided the church) when I was young:

- whether it was biblical to use a pitch-pipe to start a song.

- the age women had to stop teaching boys (the "age of accountability")

- whether women could wear pants to church (usually it was determined to be okay on Sunday night....)

- whether or not the building could have a kitchen in the fellowship area.

- whether or not a filmstrip projector was okay (it was, as this was determined to be an "expediency"....)

- whether Christ came back before or after the rapture, of if there was a rapture.

- whether you went to hell if you had a glass of wine (yes, I think; somehow the wine in the Bible was always determined to be "non-alchoholic" even though folks in the Bible got drunk off of it - ha!).

- etc, etc, etc.

As I said, this all seems so silly now. We got tired of these debates and the modern day version of them (the dreaded instrumental music issue), and have been at a Community Church for the past year. The Community Church we attend grew out of a church of Christ six years ago, and is now 4,000 people. The worship is wonderful (yes, we have a band), the teaching is great, folks are being saved, we are absolutely Bible based, and the spirit is moving.

I think the unity movement is great, and this is a sign that Christ is moving a great awakening among His people.

May He who we all serve be praised, and may those in Him be added to daily!

- Robert.

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Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

July 3rd, 2006, 5:09 am #6

<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>So, Robert, what is the name of the 4000-people Community Church that “seceded” from the church of Christ at _________? When you said “grew out of,” did you mean “replaced” or “taken over” so that the original church does not exist anymore? Or, is the original church still there but hasn’t grown, and can you give us reasons why not?

You have a point about those silly discussions and debates. Help me understand if those silly debates exist only in churches of Christ? Better yet, could you provide some stats as follows:
  • # of members of the type of church that does not allow a kitchen sink or a restroom;
  • # of members of the church that uses several pitch pipes to start a song;
  • # of members of the church whose men wear skirts and whose women wear pants;
  • # of members of the church that considers vinegar as a cholesterol-lowering substance;
  • # of … [well, this list can be really extensive … you know].
In other words, I think I have proven how silly your list of non-essentials really is.

We know about those Community Churches that use band-aids really well. What’s the matter?</font>
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Joined: February 27th, 2006, 10:01 pm

July 4th, 2006, 12:20 am #7

Forgive my ignorance, but other than instrumental music, what differences do we have with the mainstream Christian Church? If I understand correctly, they still immerse for the forgiveness of sins, each congregation is pretty much autonomys. They still have Pastors and Deacons. What are our issues with them?

You know, I was speaking with a friend today and he pointed out that there are more "differences" between various flavors of the church of Christ than there are with the mainstream CoC and the Christian Church. Dunno, I was hoping someone here could list all of the differnces (outside of public worship) that we have with them.

On another note, there are two congregations in the DFW metroplex (Dallas/Ft.Worth for y'all yankees) that have led to some of the divisions that we now face. You already mentioned Richland Hills, and while I have not come to a conclusion on everything that they do, I do know that they have pushed the boundries despite the misgivings of other christians in the area. On the otherhand, there is another church in the area that prides itself in shunning as many other churches as they can. They have let thier pride in "having it right" (although I doubt they do) push the love for fellow christians struggling to mature in Christ out the door and turned into hate mongering as seen on some of the posts on this site.

You see, the pendulum swings both ways, and on both sides (legalistic versus liberal for lack of a better word) there is error. I belive that the legalisic drives the liberal to be more liberal and vise versa. We are so afraid of "looking" like the other that we throw the baby out with the bathwater.


In Christ,

Mark F.
Mark F.,

I think that we will see a lot more of
the combined fellowships between Christian
churches and c of c. I can remember reading
Carl Ketcherside's books on how the two groups
have so many similarities. I, for one, believe
that the talks and discussions are healthy and
a lot of good will come from them.

I also wouldn't mind seeing bridges built with
all the other evangelical groups and the c of c.

Wordkeeper
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

July 4th, 2006, 12:21 am #8

<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>So, Robert, what is the name of the 4000-people Community Church that “seceded” from the church of Christ at _________? When you said “grew out of,” did you mean “replaced” or “taken over” so that the original church does not exist anymore? Or, is the original church still there but hasn’t grown, and can you give us reasons why not?

You have a point about those silly discussions and debates. Help me understand if those silly debates exist only in churches of Christ? Better yet, could you provide some stats as follows:
  • # of members of the type of church that does not allow a kitchen sink or a restroom;
  • # of members of the church that uses several pitch pipes to start a song;
  • # of members of the church whose men wear skirts and whose women wear pants;
  • # of members of the church that considers vinegar as a cholesterol-lowering substance;
  • # of … [well, this list can be really extensive … you know].
In other words, I think I have proven how silly your list of non-essentials really is.

We know about those Community Churches that use band-aids really well. What’s the matter?</font>
It is not possible to generalize, but in general, here are some hints.

The Disciples or Christian churches had almost nothing in common with churches of Christ in the beginning: Ordained clergy, rejecting weekly communion, rejecting baptism, te adoption of the SHOUTING METHODISTS as an act of worship.

Thy mounted a carpetbagging effort after the civii war to force everyone into the society and children to become "life menbers," use the organ, buy song books and Sunday school material from Standard. As part of the Sunday School movement the effort was to make BIBLE CLASSES controlled by someone other than the elders. Those who rejected divided classes were trying to presever local autonomy.

When they tried to count churches of Christ (some called christian churches) in the 1906 census the authorities knew that churches of Christ were NEVER part of their movement and a separate count was taken. However, the Society was already for an ORGANIZED denomination with a huge budget before the separate count: I have pictures of their proposed denomination.

A few decades later the group became more radical and the more conservatives became independant. There was another major RESTRUCTURE in the 60 which further fractured the group.

The Christian church appropriated "churches of Christ" to denote those groups called The Church of Christ instrumental. That has added great confusion and they are now trying to insinuate a UNITY movement by using a few DUPES who have already made their groups into defacto "christian churches."

The group which emerged out of the major split ADOPTED many of the views held by the church of Christ including the view of baptism and many others. They held on to instrumental music, the use of WOMEN, an organizational structure where you JOIN and subscribe to the bylaws to be a voting member and many more subtle differences.

The major difference which is still labeled by the major misteachers on instrumental music is the VIEW OF SCRIPTURE. Probably the most conservative Christian churches subscribe to a LOOSE CONSTRUCTION of the Bible. They speak of the LIVING CHURCH which has the authority to make changes to fit the culture. Music and women were major CULTURAL shifts and they made no attempt to justify the massive discord by recourse to the Bible. They INVENTED for the first time in recorded history in 1878 the idea that PSALLO means to sing AND play an instrument.

Of course that is utter nonsense: in all of Paul's "singing" instructionss he BEGINS by repudiating the CHILDREN'S PLAY or the use of INSTRUMENTS and arousal singing by BOTH of the Sects in Romans 14.

He then specificially COMMANDS the "synagogue" which had no praise service and was a SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE. Thomas Campbell defined CHURCH as "a school of Christ" and WORSHIP as "reading and musing the inspired text." That is what Jesus exampled, Paul commanded and churches practiced for hundreds of years. It is a historical fact that SINGING as an ACT of the assembly was not added until the year 373. Even then, there would have been almost nothing we would define as MUSICAL or the forms which were INVENTED around the year 1200 to add the pauses, umms and aahes and other FILL IN words which are NECESSARY to turn the Biblical text into a SINGING activity.

Repeat: the fundamental difference is the FUNDAMENTAL meaning of Christianity which MARKS false teachers who cease to "teach that which has been taught."

The Christian church calls themselves a CHURCH because they go with the flow and grow.

They define churches of Christ as a SECT (cult) for using the ORIGINAL Scripture for faith and practice.

You can say and I will: a RARE church of Christ is a school of the Bible. Any form of MUSICAL performance practices RELIGION which as THRESKIA was invented by "that Thracian" and the Lesbian women who perverted Homer by adding a tune and musical instruments.
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Joined: February 27th, 2006, 10:01 pm

July 4th, 2006, 12:24 am #9

I agree. Having grown up CofC there are more differences between flavors of churches of Christ than there are between the churches of Christ and the Christian Church (or some Community Churches).

The funny thing is that the things that divide the churches of Christ, the great "debates of faith" that I grew up with all seem so silly now. Here are some of the things that we debated (and divided the church) when I was young:

- whether it was biblical to use a pitch-pipe to start a song.

- the age women had to stop teaching boys (the "age of accountability")

- whether women could wear pants to church (usually it was determined to be okay on Sunday night....)

- whether or not the building could have a kitchen in the fellowship area.

- whether or not a filmstrip projector was okay (it was, as this was determined to be an "expediency"....)

- whether Christ came back before or after the rapture, of if there was a rapture.

- whether you went to hell if you had a glass of wine (yes, I think; somehow the wine in the Bible was always determined to be "non-alchoholic" even though folks in the Bible got drunk off of it - ha!).

- etc, etc, etc.

As I said, this all seems so silly now. We got tired of these debates and the modern day version of them (the dreaded instrumental music issue), and have been at a Community Church for the past year. The Community Church we attend grew out of a church of Christ six years ago, and is now 4,000 people. The worship is wonderful (yes, we have a band), the teaching is great, folks are being saved, we are absolutely Bible based, and the spirit is moving.

I think the unity movement is great, and this is a sign that Christ is moving a great awakening among His people.

May He who we all serve be praised, and may those in Him be added to daily!

- Robert.
Let me add one more to the list. I remember
in the early 1980s a church of Christ in rural
Kentucky received a large sum of money from an
Atlantian insurance executive after he passed away.
Believe it or not the elders decided against
putting indoor plumbing in because first century
christians didn't have indoor plumbing . I still
had to use the "outhouse" between sunday school
and Sunday service.

Wordkeeper

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Donnie Cruz
Donnie Cruz

July 4th, 2006, 2:47 am #10

<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>Hello, Harry Smith,

You may have missed what I mentioned to Robert that his list of non-essentials that are peculiar to a certain congregation [but not to the entire body of Christ] … or discussions between two argumentative individuals or groups … is silly … big time (and I’m referring to the list that explains man’s evil tendencies—not Christ’s church).

Your example of a rural congregation in Kentucky involved in such a silly argument is silly, too. By that example, you are making the implication or giving the impression that there’s something wrong with the church that Christ established—when there is not. That individuals arguing about non-essential matters and that church leaders making wrong or bad decisions are man’s issues that do not make the Lord’s church that you and others continue to bash and bring down and criticize not any less worth of being Christ’s bride purchased with His own blood.

Please stay within the subject of the thread. Mark did pose a good question. If there’s anything that you have personal knowledge of or researched in this regard—differences in the teachings and practices between the Christian Church and churches of Christ—please feel free to contribute ideas.

Bashing the church you left for whatever reason is not conducive to learning the truth about the church that Christ founded. It also implies that we have yet to hear from you anything negative about your new church affiliation—is it faultless? Isn’t it comprised of some people who argue and discuss as well?

Donnie</font>
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