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Hello Donnie. I agree with your point - it is funny looking back 30 years later how important everyone thought those debates were. In hindsight, they don't matter at all.<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>So, Robert, what is the name of the 4000-people Community Church that seceded from the church of Christ at _________? When you said grew out of, did you mean replaced or taken over so that the original church does not exist anymore? Or, is the original church still there but hasnt grown, and can you give us reasons why not?
You have a point about those silly discussions and debates. Help me understand if those silly debates exist only in churches of Christ? Better yet, could you provide some stats as follows:
In other words, I think I have proven how silly your list of non-essentials really is.
- # of members of the type of church that does not allow a kitchen sink or a restroom;
- # of members of the church that uses several pitch pipes to start a song;
- # of members of the church whose men wear skirts and whose women wear pants;
- # of members of the church that considers vinegar as a cholesterol-lowering substance;
- # of [well, this list can be really extensive you know].
We know about those Community Churches that use band-aids really well. Whats the matter?</font>
There is an article along the same lines as the Christian Chronicle article in the Louisville Courier Journal.<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>Heres the latest news on the ecumenical move to unite churches of Christ with the Christian Church. Now we know for sure where Jeff Walling of the Providence Road Church of Christ in Charlotte, N.C., really stands on instrumental music. Weve posted articles regarding this change agent before.
Rememberhistory repeats itself. If this merger attempt succeeds, time will come that the church will split again just because certain church leaders are around to please others instead of God. Yeah, right, unity with the Christian Church on their terms?</font>
<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>John Waddey says: It says in words that cannot be gainsaid what we have been speaking of for the last 5 years [ed: on the change movement]. Read it and weep.
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<font class="option" style="font-size: 10pt">By Bobby Ross Jr.
The Christian Chronicle
LOUISVILLE, KY. In an emotional display of love and acceptance, several prominent leaders of a cappella Churches of Christ and instrumental Christian Churches exchanged personal Bibles at the North American Christian Convention on Thursday night.
Keynote speaker Jeff Walling, pulpit minister of the Providence Road Church of Christ in Charlotte, N.C., challenged the roughly 7,000 people who packed the Kentucky International Convention Center to go home and do the same.
Are you willing to go home and shape the future of our brotherhood for our children by reaching out because of grace to say, I love you in the name of Jesus Christ, brother? Walling asked the crowd. And if somebody says, Well, hes a brother in error, you tell him, Do we have any other kind?
We are all in error, Walling added. Thats why we come every Sunday to say, God, forgive us.
Almost everyone in the audience which convention organizers said included as many as 1,000 members of a cappella congregations stood and accepted the challenge.
The dramatic exchange of Bibles capped the third, and final, night of the North American Christian Convention, an annual meeting of instrumental Christian Churches.
With the theme Together in Christ, the convention has focused this week on fostering better relations between the instrumental and a cappella fellowships after a century of division. 2006 marks the 100th anniversary of a 1906 federal census that first reported the two Restoration Movement groups as separate bodies.
Today, the a cappella churches report about 1.3 million baptized members in the U.S., slightly more than the instrumental churches 1.2 million. Both groups believe that Jesus is Lord, baptize for remission of sins and offer the Lords Supper each Sunday. But instrumental music remains a deeply divisive topic, as some members of Churches of Christ consider it a salvation issue.
Thursday nights session mixed instrumental and a cappella hymns as praise teams from the Richland Hills Church of Christ in North Richland Hills, Texas, and the Southside Christian Church in Orlando, Fla, performed together.
Keith Lancaster from the group Acappella led a non-instrumental rendition of Awesome God, followed by both praise teams singing a modern-day Rock of Ages, accompanied by a piano, drums, electric guitars, a trombone, a trumpet and tambourines.
In a message titled Together in Gods Grace, Walling said that he, too, once believed that a cappella singing was the only way to worship. But he said God helped him grow to understand that grace, not perfect doctrine, saves Christians. Members of both fellowships have suffered, he said, from weve got it right disease and legalism deep in our veins.
Walling recalled that his mother always taught him to be nice to strangers. So, for years, thats what Ive done with folks in the independent Christian Churches, he joked.
But he declared, The time for being nice is over. Its time to be family. Nice is easy. Family is a mess. Family is loving and sacrificing. Family is trying to compromise without being compromised.
Walling presented his worn personal Bible which his 89-year-old mother, Mildred, gave him in memory of his deceased earthly father, T.J. Walling to Dave Stone, minister of the Southeast Christian Church in Louisville and Wednesday nights keynote speaker.
I want to tell you tonight, you are my brother, Walling, wiping tears from his eyes, said to Stone.
Stone handed Walling his own Bible and told him, The great thing about these Bibles is that they are exactly the same. They are the same translation. They are Gods word.
Among a cappella church members who participated in the Bible exchange were ministers Marvin Phillips and Jerry Taylor as well as Abilene Christian University President Royce Money and Rochester College President Mike Westerfield.
Also exchanging Bibles were the praise teams from the Richland Hills Church of Christ and the Southside Christian Church.
Dave Faust, president of the North American Christian Convention, said he hopes the gesture will be repeated by members of both fellowships across the nation.
This is a gesture of friendship and kinship, a way of saying, Im trying the best I can to teach Gods word with all my heart and I know thats what youre trying to do, too, Faust told The Christian Chronicle. I just think itll be something that could be replicated in local communities one on one no coercion, nobody merging things or trying to force anything on anyone.
COMING IN THE AUGUST PRINT ISSUE OF THE CHRISTIAN CHRONICLE: Complete coverage of the North American Christian Convention and a Dialogue interview with Alan Highers on the instrumental music issue.
Now you know what Jeff Walling really believes. Now you know where Royce Money of Abilene Christian University is trying to lead us. Now you know the inclination of the staff of the Christian Chronicle which is owned and operated by Oklahoma Christian University. Is this what you wish for the church of Christ, of which you are a member? Will you sit silent while this apostasy sweeps over our brotherhood or will you stand up for Jesus and his church?</font>
<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>Robert,Hello Donnie. I agree with your point - it is funny looking back 30 years later how important everyone thought those debates were. In hindsight, they don't matter at all.
As far as the question, the church we attend is the Cross Timbers Commmunity Church. Several families left a church of Christ in the area six years ago to form this church. It did not "take over" the existing church. As far as the church of Christ is concerned, I don't know where it stands as we have never attended there.
To answer your last comment ("We know about those Community Churches that use band-aids really well. Whats the matter?"), I don't know what you mean. We have a band (actually several), and I love it. I don't know what your "what's the matter" comment refers to, as there is nothing the matter. If you clarify, I will give you an answer.
Grace and peace to you, and may God bless His body of believers.
Before accepting Ketcherside, you should understand that SIMILAR is not necessarily RIGHT.Mark F.,
I think that we will see a lot more of
the combined fellowships between Christian
churches and c of c. I can remember reading
Carl Ketcherside's books on how the two groups
have so many similarities. I, for one, believe
that the talks and discussions are healthy and
a lot of good will come from them.
I also wouldn't mind seeing bridges built with
all the other evangelical groups and the c of c.
The problem with the gatherings is that ALL of those represented "churches of Christ" either use or APPROVE of the use of instrumental music. The "Musical Worship Team" is a legalistic end run by using an ORGANI "pipe organ" using the syle of ORGANUM developed after about 1200.There is an article along the same lines as the Christian Chronicle article in the Louisville Courier Journal.
"Reconciling Christians mix their music"
To view this article on The Courier-Journal Web site, go to:
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbc ... 6606300388
Hello Donnie. Thanks for the clarification and reply. Also, you are correct, my wording was bad. The folks did not "leave the church" (as in the body of Christ). I believe that both churches (the church of Christ and the Community Church) are both part of the body of Christ. By the way, the Cross Timbers we attend is in Argyle, Texas.<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>Robert,
I guess I could search online, is Cross Timbers in Texas or Tenn.?
Pardon me its just a personal preference [and it is also scriptural] that I would not agree to expressing something as in having left a church of Christ. The NT clearly teaches that the church is the body of Christ. In essence, it would be similar to saying, I left a body of Christand what does that mean? [But I think I know what youre saying. ]
By the use of band-aids, I was referring to a medical supply called Band-Aids. It has a medical purpose, and you know what its for, right? And no one would use Band-Aids or other corrective measures without a reason. Should I explain further?
OK. I mentioned Band-Aids in response to your statement: The worship is wonderful (yes, we have a band) . Do you really think God cares for a musical band [thus, Band-Aids] in worship as if it had an illness? Maybe, worship is ill to begin with? As Mark wonders, dunno! And since you have actually several bands, Band-Aids in that sense then is used as a terminology appropriately.
O.K., once again, barring Ken and his vitriolic overgeneralized anwsers that always end in music is evil, I can't get a real answer about the differences between the mainstream churches of Christ and the mainstream Christian Church (not the Disciples of Christ).<font color=indigo size=3 face=times new roman>Hello, Harry Smith,
You may have missed what I mentioned to Robert that his list of non-essentials that are peculiar to a certain congregation [but not to the entire body of Christ] or discussions between two argumentative individuals or groups is silly big time (and Im referring to the list that explains mans evil tendenciesnot Christs church).
Your example of a rural congregation in Kentucky involved in such a silly argument is silly, too. By that example, you are making the implication or giving the impression that theres something wrong with the church that Christ establishedwhen there is not. That individuals arguing about non-essential matters and that church leaders making wrong or bad decisions are mans issues that do not make the Lords church that you and others continue to bash and bring down and criticize not any less worth of being Christs bride purchased with His own blood.
Please stay within the subject of the thread. Mark did pose a good question. If theres anything that you have personal knowledge of or researched in this regarddifferences in the teachings and practices between the Christian Church and churches of Christplease feel free to contribute ideas.
Bashing the church you left for whatever reason is not conducive to learning the truth about the church that Christ founded. It also implies that we have yet to hear from you anything negative about your new church affiliationis it faultless? Isnt it comprised of some people who argue and discuss as well?
Jesus is son of God Jesus is son of GodO.K., once again, barring Ken and his vitriolic overgeneralized anwsers that always end in music is evil, I can't get a real answer about the differences between the mainstream churches of Christ and the mainstream Christian Church (not the Disciples of Christ).
Here's what I do understand
church of Chirst Christian Church
Jesus is son of God Jesus is son of God
Lived in the flesh Lived in the flesh
Was without sin Was without sin
Died for our sins Died for our sins
Was raised from the dead Was raised from the dead
Ascended to heaven Ascended to heaven
Sin separates us from God Sin seperates us from God
We're baptized for the remision of sins We're baptized for the remision of sins
Based on this, in the matter of the Gospel, both are preaching the Good News. In the matter of salvation, both are leading people to Christ.
So, our differences must about things beyond salvation. Thanks for any insight.