Prepositions (OF, IN) That Trouble Biblical Scholars and Trinitarians

Prepositions (OF, IN) That Trouble Biblical Scholars and Trinitarians

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 2nd, 2014, 9:45 am #1

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]We've been discussing the significance of the preposition "OF" in what the Scripture teaches:[/color]
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Lord (26 references in O.T.; Luke 4:18; Acts 5:9; 8:39; II Cor. 3:17,18)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF God (14 references in O.T.; 12 references in N.T.)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the living God (II Cor. 3:3)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Christ (Rom. 8:9; I Peter 1:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Jesus Christ (Phil. 1:19)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF His Son (Gal. 4:6)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the holy Spirit OF God (Eph. 4:30)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Father (Matt. 10:20)
    </li>
  • ... and many other similar passages as the ones listed above. </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Since there is only ONE Spirit (I Cor. 12:13; Eph. 2:18; Eph. 4:4), it would be erroneous for man to make God formulate or generate a separate BEING apart from "the spirit OF the Lord" that the passages present above. Man does this (generate a Spirit Being) to validate the Trinity Creed that espouses God No. 3 -- "the Holy Spirit."[/color]

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]OK, we are not discussing the troublesome preposition "OF" at this time -- it is being presented here only for your "recollection" as we are about to bring up another preposition that is also troublesome to many biblical scholars and Trinitarian followers.

And what is that other preposition? We're finding out now.

Scripture's message ("Mystery of His Will," November 29 2013, 4:06 PM) really caught my attention. It was published in the extensively-discussed, controversial thread, "Biblical Proof That Jesus Lived in Heaven Before Coming to Earth."[/color]
[color=#000000" size="4" face="times]God has chosen in these last times to unveil the mystery (secret) of His Will (Ephesians 1:7-11). Part of that mystery was the plan for God's Word to descend to become human....

This mystery include the revelation of the existence of Christ identified with Jesus, the redemption through His blood, as the Suffering Savior ... God purposed this from the beginning, and in the New Covenant He has unveiled the Christ. Christ sums up all things in the heavens and things on the earth. These events were predestined according to His purpose, who works all things according the purpose of His Will (Word). ... The revelation of Christ was the unveiling to the temple, the understanding that God was in Christ.[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]It is clear from passages above and in John 1:1,14:

-- That the holy Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ is not another being.
-- That it was "the Word" in the beginning (v. 1) that was made flesh (v.14).
-- That it was "Jesus" in the beginning that became Jesus in v. 14 is fallacious.
-- That the Catholic Trinity's perceived Person No. 3 is not Scripture-based.

Another troubling preposition is "IN" (often substituted or replaced with the verb "IS").

Hopefully, Catholic Trinity followers do not make another mistake due to misuse of prepositions, e.g.:

-- Error: That God was pre-existing Jesus who became Jesus 2000 years ago.
-- Error: That the Word in the beginning was conclusively the pre-existing Jesus.
-- Error: That the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ is "another" Spirit.
-- Error: That there is a REAL "Holy Spirit" -- the Trinity's 3rd PERSON.
-- Error: That there is no distinction between: (1) origination and (2) destination ...
-- ... meaning that when A became (transformed, changed to) B, A was B all along.[/color]

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]And now ... Scripture's remark above: "The revelation of Christ ... the understanding that God was in Christ."

I'm presenting the following passages with the preposition "IN" used in expressions involving God and Christ:[/color]
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]Again, think ye that we excuse ourselves unto you? we speak before God in Christ: but we do all things, dearly beloved, for your edifying. (II Cor. 12:19)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. (Gal. 3:17)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. (Gal. 3:26)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. (Phil. 3:3)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil. 3:14)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. (I Thess. 5:18)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. (I Thess. 4:14)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: (I Cor.1:2)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: (I Cor. 1:30)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times][14] Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. [17] For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ. (II Cor. 2)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times][17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. [19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. [20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. (II Cor. 5)[/color]</li>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]What does "God IN Christ" mean? Does "God IN Christ" mean the same as "Jesus Christ IS God"?[/color]
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Bill
Bill

January 2nd, 2014, 2:04 pm #2

It appears that prepositions, especially "OF," really have you churning. I wonder how many preachers would devote a whole sermon's worth of time just to "OF" and how many congregants would stay awake during that time. Many congregants would probably end up thinking, "Say what? This guy has finally lost it!"




============================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]I changed my mind about ignoring or rejecting this post. What an antagonistic response as usual, Bill!!! This is not conducive to learning the Bible -- not at all.

From: "This guy [who] has finally lost it!"
<font>[/color]</font>
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on January 3rd, 2014, 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bill
Bill

January 2nd, 2014, 2:04 pm #3

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]We've been discussing the significance of the preposition "OF" in what the Scripture teaches:[/color]
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Lord (26 references in O.T.; Luke 4:18; Acts 5:9; 8:39; II Cor. 3:17,18)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF God (14 references in O.T.; 12 references in N.T.)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the living God (II Cor. 3:3)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Christ (Rom. 8:9; I Peter 1:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Jesus Christ (Phil. 1:19)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF His Son (Gal. 4:6)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the holy Spirit OF God (Eph. 4:30)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Father (Matt. 10:20)
    </li>
  • ... and many other similar passages as the ones listed above. </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Since there is only ONE Spirit (I Cor. 12:13; Eph. 2:18; Eph. 4:4), it would be erroneous for man to make God formulate or generate a separate BEING apart from "the spirit OF the Lord" that the passages present above. Man does this (generate a Spirit Being) to validate the Trinity Creed that espouses God No. 3 -- "the Holy Spirit."[/color]

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]OK, we are not discussing the troublesome preposition "OF" at this time -- it is being presented here only for your "recollection" as we are about to bring up another preposition that is also troublesome to many biblical scholars and Trinitarian followers.

And what is that other preposition? We're finding out now.

Scripture's message ("Mystery of His Will," November 29 2013, 4:06 PM) really caught my attention. It was published in the extensively-discussed, controversial thread, "Biblical Proof That Jesus Lived in Heaven Before Coming to Earth."[/color]
[color=#000000" size="4" face="times]God has chosen in these last times to unveil the mystery (secret) of His Will (Ephesians 1:7-11). Part of that mystery was the plan for God's Word to descend to become human....

This mystery include the revelation of the existence of Christ identified with Jesus, the redemption through His blood, as the Suffering Savior ... God purposed this from the beginning, and in the New Covenant He has unveiled the Christ. Christ sums up all things in the heavens and things on the earth. These events were predestined according to His purpose, who works all things according the purpose of His Will (Word). ... The revelation of Christ was the unveiling to the temple, the understanding that God was in Christ.[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]It is clear from passages above and in John 1:1,14:

-- That the holy Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ is not another being.
-- That it was "the Word" in the beginning (v. 1) that was made flesh (v.14).
-- That it was "Jesus" in the beginning that became Jesus in v. 14 is fallacious.
-- That the Catholic Trinity's perceived Person No. 3 is not Scripture-based.

Another troubling preposition is "IN" (often substituted or replaced with the verb "IS").

Hopefully, Catholic Trinity followers do not make another mistake due to misuse of prepositions, e.g.:

-- Error: That God was pre-existing Jesus who became Jesus 2000 years ago.
-- Error: That the Word in the beginning was conclusively the pre-existing Jesus.
-- Error: That the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ is "another" Spirit.
-- Error: That there is a REAL "Holy Spirit" -- the Trinity's 3rd PERSON.
-- Error: That there is no distinction between: (1) origination and (2) destination ...
-- ... meaning that when A became (transformed, changed to) B, A was B all along.[/color]

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]And now ... Scripture's remark above: "The revelation of Christ ... the understanding that God was in Christ."

I'm presenting the following passages with the preposition "IN" used in expressions involving God and Christ:[/color]
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]Again, think ye that we excuse ourselves unto you? we speak before God in Christ: but we do all things, dearly beloved, for your edifying. (II Cor. 12:19)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. (Gal. 3:17)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. (Gal. 3:26)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. (Phil. 3:3)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil. 3:14)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. (I Thess. 5:18)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. (I Thess. 4:14)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: (I Cor.1:2)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: (I Cor. 1:30)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times][14] Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. [17] For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ. (II Cor. 2)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times][17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. [19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. [20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. (II Cor. 5)[/color]</li>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]What does "God IN Christ" mean? Does "God IN Christ" mean the same as "Jesus Christ IS God"?[/color]
It appears that prepositions, especially "OF," really have you churning. I wonder how many preachers would devote a whole sermon's worth of time just to "OF" and how many congregants would stay awake during that time. Many congregants would probably end up thinking, "Say what? This guy has finally lost it!"



==================================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]You may be one of those biblical scholars [and Trinitarians], Dr. William Crump. [/color]
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on January 3rd, 2014, 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 2nd, 2014, 4:56 pm #4

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]We've been discussing the significance of the preposition "OF" in what the Scripture teaches:[/color]
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Lord (26 references in O.T.; Luke 4:18; Acts 5:9; 8:39; II Cor. 3:17,18)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF God (14 references in O.T.; 12 references in N.T.)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the living God (II Cor. 3:3)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Christ (Rom. 8:9; I Peter 1:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Jesus Christ (Phil. 1:19)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF His Son (Gal. 4:6)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the holy Spirit OF God (Eph. 4:30)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Father (Matt. 10:20)
    </li>
  • ... and many other similar passages as the ones listed above. </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Since there is only ONE Spirit (I Cor. 12:13; Eph. 2:18; Eph. 4:4), it would be erroneous for man to make God formulate or generate a separate BEING apart from "the spirit OF the Lord" that the passages present above. Man does this (generate a Spirit Being) to validate the Trinity Creed that espouses God No. 3 -- "the Holy Spirit."[/color]

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]OK, we are not discussing the troublesome preposition "OF" at this time -- it is being presented here only for your "recollection" as we are about to bring up another preposition that is also troublesome to many biblical scholars and Trinitarian followers.

And what is that other preposition? We're finding out now.

Scripture's message ("Mystery of His Will," November 29 2013, 4:06 PM) really caught my attention. It was published in the extensively-discussed, controversial thread, "Biblical Proof That Jesus Lived in Heaven Before Coming to Earth."[/color]
[color=#000000" size="4" face="times]God has chosen in these last times to unveil the mystery (secret) of His Will (Ephesians 1:7-11). Part of that mystery was the plan for God's Word to descend to become human....

This mystery include the revelation of the existence of Christ identified with Jesus, the redemption through His blood, as the Suffering Savior ... God purposed this from the beginning, and in the New Covenant He has unveiled the Christ. Christ sums up all things in the heavens and things on the earth. These events were predestined according to His purpose, who works all things according the purpose of His Will (Word). ... The revelation of Christ was the unveiling to the temple, the understanding that God was in Christ.[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]It is clear from passages above and in John 1:1,14:

-- That the holy Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ is not another being.
-- That it was "the Word" in the beginning (v. 1) that was made flesh (v.14).
-- That it was "Jesus" in the beginning that became Jesus in v. 14 is fallacious.
-- That the Catholic Trinity's perceived Person No. 3 is not Scripture-based.

Another troubling preposition is "IN" (often substituted or replaced with the verb "IS").

Hopefully, Catholic Trinity followers do not make another mistake due to misuse of prepositions, e.g.:

-- Error: That God was pre-existing Jesus who became Jesus 2000 years ago.
-- Error: That the Word in the beginning was conclusively the pre-existing Jesus.
-- Error: That the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ is "another" Spirit.
-- Error: That there is a REAL "Holy Spirit" -- the Trinity's 3rd PERSON.
-- Error: That there is no distinction between: (1) origination and (2) destination ...
-- ... meaning that when A became (transformed, changed to) B, A was B all along.[/color]

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]And now ... Scripture's remark above: "The revelation of Christ ... the understanding that God was in Christ."

I'm presenting the following passages with the preposition "IN" used in expressions involving God and Christ:[/color]
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]Again, think ye that we excuse ourselves unto you? we speak before God in Christ: but we do all things, dearly beloved, for your edifying. (II Cor. 12:19)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. (Gal. 3:17)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. (Gal. 3:26)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. (Phil. 3:3)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil. 3:14)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. (I Thess. 5:18)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. (I Thess. 4:14)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: (I Cor.1:2)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: (I Cor. 1:30)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times][14] Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. [17] For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ. (II Cor. 2)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times][17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. [19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. [20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. (II Cor. 5)[/color]</li>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]What does "God IN Christ" mean? Does "God IN Christ" mean the same as "Jesus Christ IS God"?[/color]
By definition the neo-trinitarians are also the strongly deluded imposing "musical" performance as the definition of lying wonders. There is no reason that they should be permitted to grasp Prepositions 101a which is why they don't bother to PREACH the word by READING the Word for Comfort and doctrine as Christ commanded beginning in the wilderness.

If the translators had translated LITERALLY they would have said 'The BREATH of God." Jesus returned as Holy Spirit in the upper room and the WIND is BREATH. Jesus Breathed on the Apostles (only) and as Holy Spirit guided them into all truth which included the "memory" left for OUR learning.

I have heard or read all of the posts and sermons and I don't know of a single Ph.d who is ALLOWED to use PREPOSITIONS. For instance,

Paul said SPEAK one to another (external)
ODE and PSALLO (both negative words) IN the heart. Wouldn't you know it apparently there is little to no scholarship which does not say SING and make Melody WITH the heart or WITH a harp (Psallo does not allow wind or percussion instruments or guitar picks).

SPIRIT only remotely applies to demons or angels because the word GHOST did the "talking." In the text, God BREATHES and someone SPEAKS. If they say that "a" spirit told them that God commanded instrumental noise then we have recorded evidence to prove that it was Abaddon or Apollyon or the spirit OF Abaddon inspiring or LEADING the MUSES or his musical worship team: they were the LOCUSTS unleashed from hell to attack churches of Christ almost to the day of the END of the 6th day since Genesis defines the Creation of Light in battle with the DARKNESS of Babylonianism which has again been unleashed with "lusted after fruits" speaking, singing and playing instruments. John calls them SORCERERS who HAD once deceived the whole world. He said that they will/are Cast Alive into the Lake of Hell as the typical way to battle LOCUSTS or PARASITES.

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Bill
Bill

January 3rd, 2014, 4:31 pm #5

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]We've been discussing the significance of the preposition "OF" in what the Scripture teaches:[/color]
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Lord (26 references in O.T.; Luke 4:18; Acts 5:9; 8:39; II Cor. 3:17,18)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF God (14 references in O.T.; 12 references in N.T.)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the living God (II Cor. 3:3)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Christ (Rom. 8:9; I Peter 1:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Jesus Christ (Phil. 1:19)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF His Son (Gal. 4:6)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the holy Spirit OF God (Eph. 4:30)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Father (Matt. 10:20)
    </li>
  • ... and many other similar passages as the ones listed above. </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Since there is only ONE Spirit (I Cor. 12:13; Eph. 2:18; Eph. 4:4), it would be erroneous for man to make God formulate or generate a separate BEING apart from "the spirit OF the Lord" that the passages present above. Man does this (generate a Spirit Being) to validate the Trinity Creed that espouses God No. 3 -- "the Holy Spirit."[/color]

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]OK, we are not discussing the troublesome preposition "OF" at this time -- it is being presented here only for your "recollection" as we are about to bring up another preposition that is also troublesome to many biblical scholars and Trinitarian followers.

And what is that other preposition? We're finding out now.

Scripture's message ("Mystery of His Will," November 29 2013, 4:06 PM) really caught my attention. It was published in the extensively-discussed, controversial thread, "Biblical Proof That Jesus Lived in Heaven Before Coming to Earth."[/color]
[color=#000000" size="4" face="times]God has chosen in these last times to unveil the mystery (secret) of His Will (Ephesians 1:7-11). Part of that mystery was the plan for God's Word to descend to become human....

This mystery include the revelation of the existence of Christ identified with Jesus, the redemption through His blood, as the Suffering Savior ... God purposed this from the beginning, and in the New Covenant He has unveiled the Christ. Christ sums up all things in the heavens and things on the earth. These events were predestined according to His purpose, who works all things according the purpose of His Will (Word). ... The revelation of Christ was the unveiling to the temple, the understanding that God was in Christ.[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]It is clear from passages above and in John 1:1,14:

-- That the holy Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ is not another being.
-- That it was "the Word" in the beginning (v. 1) that was made flesh (v.14).
-- That it was "Jesus" in the beginning that became Jesus in v. 14 is fallacious.
-- That the Catholic Trinity's perceived Person No. 3 is not Scripture-based.

Another troubling preposition is "IN" (often substituted or replaced with the verb "IS").

Hopefully, Catholic Trinity followers do not make another mistake due to misuse of prepositions, e.g.:

-- Error: That God was pre-existing Jesus who became Jesus 2000 years ago.
-- Error: That the Word in the beginning was conclusively the pre-existing Jesus.
-- Error: That the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ is "another" Spirit.
-- Error: That there is a REAL "Holy Spirit" -- the Trinity's 3rd PERSON.
-- Error: That there is no distinction between: (1) origination and (2) destination ...
-- ... meaning that when A became (transformed, changed to) B, A was B all along.[/color]

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]And now ... Scripture's remark above: "The revelation of Christ ... the understanding that God was in Christ."

I'm presenting the following passages with the preposition "IN" used in expressions involving God and Christ:[/color]
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]Again, think ye that we excuse ourselves unto you? we speak before God in Christ: but we do all things, dearly beloved, for your edifying. (II Cor. 12:19)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. (Gal. 3:17)

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  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. (Gal. 3:26)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. (Phil. 3:3)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil. 3:14)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. (I Thess. 5:18)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. (I Thess. 4:14)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: (I Cor.1:2)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: (I Cor. 1:30)

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  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times][14] Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. [17] For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ. (II Cor. 2)

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  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times][17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. [19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. [20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. (II Cor. 5)[/color]</li>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]What does "God IN Christ" mean? Does "God IN Christ" mean the same as "Jesus Christ IS God"?[/color]
So far, this unbelievable thread implies that the Holy Spirit OF God is an intimate part of God and can never exist as a separate entity while still belonging to God. That idea limits the use of the preposition "OF."

The preposition "OF"can be used to show ownership: the car OF the man; the book OF the student. Yet in both cases, although the car belongs to the man and the book belongs to the student, the car, man, book, and student are all completely independent, separate entities. They are not intimately fixed to or a part of each other.

The preposition "OF" can also be used to show that which is attached or fixed to something: the tail OF the dog; the lips OF the woman. There, the tail and lips are respectively attached to and are an intimate part of the dog and woman.

The preposition "OF" can also be used to describe: a box OF tissues; a plate OF spaghetti. The tissues are within the box and the spaghetti is on the plate, yet the box, tissues, spaghetti, and plate are still completely independent, separate entities.

Depending on one's perspective, "the Holy Spirit OF God" can imply ownership, attachment, AND description. Some people see the Holy Spirit as intimately attached to and belonging to God; hence, it cannot be a separate entity. Other people see the Holy Spirit as an entity that belongs to God but that, as a separate entity, obeys God and submits to His will.

Since the New Testament simply says "the Holy Spirit OF God," then our perspective of the Holy Spirit depends on our perspective of the preposition "OF." We may either see the Holy Spirit as intimately attached to God OR as an independent entity that still belongs to and submits to God. The New Testament DOES NOT tell us how to perceive the Holy Spirit; therefore, our perspective using "OF" is a matter of choice.
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Bill
Bill

January 3rd, 2014, 9:56 pm #6

It appears that prepositions, especially "OF," really have you churning. I wonder how many preachers would devote a whole sermon's worth of time just to "OF" and how many congregants would stay awake during that time. Many congregants would probably end up thinking, "Say what? This guy has finally lost it!"




============================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]I changed my mind about ignoring or rejecting this post. What an antagonistic response as usual, Bill!!! This is not conducive to learning the Bible -- not at all.

From: "This guy [who] has finally lost it!"
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Do you know of any preachers who would devote an entire sermon to discussing the preposition "OF"? I don't, and in all my years I've never heard any preacher deliver such a sermon. If a preacher did that, he'd be looking for a new job.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 3rd, 2014, 10:22 pm #7

So far, this unbelievable thread implies that the Holy Spirit OF God is an intimate part of God and can never exist as a separate entity while still belonging to God. That idea limits the use of the preposition "OF."

The preposition "OF"can be used to show ownership: the car OF the man; the book OF the student. Yet in both cases, although the car belongs to the man and the book belongs to the student, the car, man, book, and student are all completely independent, separate entities. They are not intimately fixed to or a part of each other.

The preposition "OF" can also be used to show that which is attached or fixed to something: the tail OF the dog; the lips OF the woman. There, the tail and lips are respectively attached to and are an intimate part of the dog and woman.

The preposition "OF" can also be used to describe: a box OF tissues; a plate OF spaghetti. The tissues are within the box and the spaghetti is on the plate, yet the box, tissues, spaghetti, and plate are still completely independent, separate entities.

Depending on one's perspective, "the Holy Spirit OF God" can imply ownership, attachment, AND description. Some people see the Holy Spirit as intimately attached to and belonging to God; hence, it cannot be a separate entity. Other people see the Holy Spirit as an entity that belongs to God but that, as a separate entity, obeys God and submits to His will.

Since the New Testament simply says "the Holy Spirit OF God," then our perspective of the Holy Spirit depends on our perspective of the preposition "OF." We may either see the Holy Spirit as intimately attached to God OR as an independent entity that still belongs to and submits to God. The New Testament DOES NOT tell us how to perceive the Holy Spirit; therefore, our perspective using "OF" is a matter of choice.
We don't get a multiple choice in reading 101a.

Pneuma literally means WIND. If we say the wind OF Christ the definition can only means BREATH or FLATULENCE OF Christ.

In literate Greek or Hebrew 101a, wind was also used FIGURATIVELY of the BREATH. The word can never be the name of a human or divine person. God IS or consists only of WIND. However, in literate society, the word can mean the MIND of a person: that is because the MIND as "father" expresses its mental disposition by BREATHING. The Sword of The Spirit is the LIPS as "double-edged" swords. Sword is used because we CUT or manipulate things by speaking something.

The Word or LOGOS is the regulative principle. Therefore, God regulates or governs by SPEAKING: His MIND (father) breathes (spirit) and ARTICULATES His Word. This is the way God has revealed in language we can comprehend. Word or LOGOS is not something comprehended only as what we can hear: the WORD or LOGOS is how God as Wholly Spirit empowers energy to carry out His will: better leave that one to understand better by and by. If God creates and develops spiritual life by WORDS then we know that they contain power which the Ph.ds will never grasp as they tamper with it.

In 2 Corinthians 3 Paul

Says that the Holy Spirit
<font color="#FFFFFF">....
Is to GOD
What our spirit (mind, heart)
....is to US,
For US (the Apostles) the Holy Breath of God is the MIND of Christ.


Jesus said that MY Words ARE Spirit and Life.

Life is recognized as having BREATH or spirit in it.

The Father is MIND (to we mortals)
The Spirit it BREATH
The Son is the WORD

The single word FIRE! can make a living person into a dead person. The word GUILTY! can put a free person into prison for life plus a hundred years. How silly to think that you MUST have a clergy person to explain what Jesus came to explain.

John 3:33 He that hath received his TESTIMONY hath set to his seal that God is true.

The SPIRIT gave the Prophets and Jesus the TESTIMONY as BREATH

Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the TESTIMONY of Jesus IS the SPIRIT of prophecy.

John 6:63 It is the SPIRIT that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the WORDS that I SPEAK unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are life.


Filled with the SPIRIT (Ephesians 5) is the same as Filled with the WORDS of Christ (Colossians 3) and the command is to SPEAK the Word to minister SPIRIT.

Jesus SPAKE or ARTICULATED what the MIND (father) BREATHED into Him. When God BREATHES into a person they SPEAK: they do not sing, clap and play instruments: that is the spiritus of Abaddon or Apollyon.

John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent SPEAKETH the WORDS of God: for God giveth not the SPIRIT by measure [meter] unto him.

All of the first users of TRIAS defined the SINGULAR ALMIGHTY in the same way: so did the Campbells.

Father is MIND
Spirit is BREATH
Son is WORD. They go on to say that "the SON of God is the WORD of God" meaning that which the Almighty articulates through people. WE are the sons of God by FAITH: that means that when we live by that which is HEARD then we are Sons.

The Spirit OF God is the MIND of God or His "Mental disposition" expressed by BREATHING and ARTICULATING.

If you deny the ONE GOD (Theos)
and the One LORD (kurios) made so by God
Where God is CAPABLE of speaking to His LORD (Moses, Jesus etc).
John said that you are ANTI-Christ because you deny that God can enable People to speak for Him without needing another FAMILY MEMBER as a crutch for His disability!

The ONE MEDIATOR is the MAN Jesus Christ:

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Bill
Bill

January 3rd, 2014, 10:24 pm #8

It appears that prepositions, especially "OF," really have you churning. I wonder how many preachers would devote a whole sermon's worth of time just to "OF" and how many congregants would stay awake during that time. Many congregants would probably end up thinking, "Say what? This guy has finally lost it!"



==================================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]You may be one of those biblical scholars [and Trinitarians], Dr. William Crump. [/color]
Frankly, there is nothing wrong or sinful about being a biblical scholar and/or a Trinitarian. If using "Trinity" to describe Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is a sin because "Trinity" is not found in the canonical text, then using "Holy Bible" to describe the written Word of God is also a sin, because "Holy Bible" is also not found in the canonical text.

If people feel comfortable perceiving the Holy Spirit as an intimate part of God that cannot exist as a separate entity, that's perfectly fine. People are free to perceive the Holy Spirit that way. The Bible issues no condemnation for our individual perceptions of the Holy Spirit.

If people feel comfortable perceiving the Holy Spirit as a distinct and separate entity or even as a "person," that's also perfectly fine. People are free to perceive the Holy Spirit that way. The Bible issues no condemnation for our individual perceptions of the Holy Spirit.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 3rd, 2014, 10:38 pm #9

It appears that prepositions, especially "OF," really have you churning. I wonder how many preachers would devote a whole sermon's worth of time just to "OF" and how many congregants would stay awake during that time. Many congregants would probably end up thinking, "Say what? This guy has finally lost it!"



==================================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]You may be one of those biblical scholars [and Trinitarians], Dr. William Crump. [/color]
I am waiting and searching for a modern, University-manufactured preacher who does not get puffed up when you say that:

The Spirit OF Christ is not another "people" required to make the inept Father-Son complex work.

Or:

ODING and PSALLOING is IN the heart or mind or "be silent" as you listen to the WORD SPOKEN.

I do not know of anyone--and the masses of professional religionism thinks that:

SPEAK that which is written for our LEARNING,
is NOW satisfied by SINGING that which is NOT for our learning but FOR performing an ACT.

Jesus said that the Doctors of the Law take away the key to knowledge. Scribes and Pharisees as doctors and hypocrites can be MARKED by anyone speaking out of their own head, singing or playing instruments. By definition by Christ in Ezekiel33 the EAGER AUDIENCE are also defined as hypocrites because the "singing and playing and self-speaking" is the MARK of those who have no intention of obeying.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.


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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 3rd, 2014, 10:41 pm #10

Do you know of any preachers who would devote an entire sermon to discussing the preposition "OF"? I don't, and in all my years I've never heard any preacher deliver such a sermon. If a preacher did that, he'd be looking for a new job.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China?

Perhaps I should have said: "Prepositions ... that trouble biblical scholars, Trinitarians, and preachers who would rather look for a new job than seriously study prepositions that would debunk their man-made beliefs."[/color]

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