Prepositions (OF, IN) That Trouble Biblical Scholars and Trinitarians

Bill
Bill

January 5th, 2014, 5:53 pm #21

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill, you're the only one mentioning: (a) "eternal destiny," or (b) what other "preachers" think, or (c) accepting whatever "can be interpreted several different ways." In addition [speaking of Lipscomb's (d) religion courses], there is a "Worship Leader" course that you might be MORE interested in taking.

Expressing those thoughts (above) does not make you a linguist nor impress serious students of the Bible.

As I've said, let us know: to which specific interpretation concerning the preposition "OF" in those passages do you actually adhere?

Bill, present to us specifically YOUR belief. For example, let us know if the use of the preposition "of" in the expression "the [holy] Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ" is more meaningful and relevant in:

(a) "the box OF candy"
-------- than in ------------
(b) "the mind OF Christ"

. . . your response will be published, and we will spend the time to review and discuss it. (Otherwise, please do not waste your time by repeating those irrelevant statements.)[/color]
I've noticed that whenever I mention consequences of beliefs and our eternal destiny, you [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times<b][ . . . ]

[ . . . ]

[ . . . ]

[ . . . ][/color]

You wanted to know my specific interpretation about "OF." OK, here it is. I believe that interpreting "OF" is a matter of choice; there are several ways to do it, as I've mentioned earlier. Specifically, I believe that the Holy Spirit is an independent, heavenly being who belongs to God and submits to God's will; thus, God's Holy Spirit, or the Holy Spirit OF God. It's the same wording as "the Son OF God," only the Holy Spirit is not begotten of God as Jesus is. Jesus, being a separate, heavenly being, belongs to God, just as the Holy Spirit, being a separate, heavenly being, belongs to God.

I have no problem with people who [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times<b] [ . . . ][/color]


===========================

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill, only the portion [about 25%] of your above post in response to my specific request is being published. Know that I have read and saved your post in its entirety for reference (since you spent quite a bit of time composing it). [/color]
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on January 6th, 2014, 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 5th, 2014, 9:20 pm #22

Used for belonging to, relating to, or connected with:

The secret OF this game is that you cant ever win.
The highlight OF the show is at the end.
The first page OF the book describes the authors profile.
Dont touch it. Thats the bag OF my friends sister.
I always dreamed OF being rich and famous.

Spirit literally means ONLY a WIND. A wind which results from a MIND is called A BREATH.

SPIRIT can never be A person but the mental disposition OF that person which may be expressed as the WILL of the MIND which thought.

In the text, the Spirit OF Christ is the Spirit OF God or the MIND of God.

If the Spirit OF God is another "god" then the Almighty is OUT OF HIS MIND: that's why trinitarians are ANTI-Christs but everyone gets the right to be an ANTICHRIST but NO ONE gets to decide the consequences.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 6th, 2014, 8:22 am #23

I've noticed that whenever I mention consequences of beliefs and our eternal destiny, you [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times<b][ . . . ]

[ . . . ]

[ . . . ]

[ . . . ][/color]

You wanted to know my specific interpretation about "OF." OK, here it is. I believe that interpreting "OF" is a matter of choice; there are several ways to do it, as I've mentioned earlier. Specifically, I believe that the Holy Spirit is an independent, heavenly being who belongs to God and submits to God's will; thus, God's Holy Spirit, or the Holy Spirit OF God. It's the same wording as "the Son OF God," only the Holy Spirit is not begotten of God as Jesus is. Jesus, being a separate, heavenly being, belongs to God, just as the Holy Spirit, being a separate, heavenly being, belongs to God.

I have no problem with people who [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times<b] [ . . . ][/color]


===========================

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill, only the portion [about 25%] of your above post in response to my specific request is being published. Know that I have read and saved your post in its entirety for reference (since you spent quite a bit of time composing it). [/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill,

Thanks for responding to my specific question earlier.

Please further clarify your position regarding "the Holy Spirit." I'll briefly explain below why I'm asking.

Here it is: I've learned from some of your previous posts that you believe there are two (2) spirits involved in dealing with the subject of "the Holy Spirit":

(1) One is "the holy Spirit OF God [/the Lord Jesus Christ/the Father]
----------------------- and -----------------------
(2) The other being the 3rd Person of "The Trinity" -- THE HOLY SPIRIT.


Is this still your position?[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 6th, 2014, 8:43 am #24

I've noticed that whenever I mention consequences of beliefs and our eternal destiny, you [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times<b][ . . . ]

[ . . . ]

[ . . . ]

[ . . . ][/color]

You wanted to know my specific interpretation about "OF." OK, here it is. I believe that interpreting "OF" is a matter of choice; there are several ways to do it, as I've mentioned earlier. Specifically, I believe that the Holy Spirit is an independent, heavenly being who belongs to God and submits to God's will; thus, God's Holy Spirit, or the Holy Spirit OF God. It's the same wording as "the Son OF God," only the Holy Spirit is not begotten of God as Jesus is. Jesus, being a separate, heavenly being, belongs to God, just as the Holy Spirit, being a separate, heavenly being, belongs to God.

I have no problem with people who [color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times<b] [ . . . ][/color]


===========================

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill, only the portion [about 25%] of your above post in response to my specific request is being published. Know that I have read and saved your post in its entirety for reference (since you spent quite a bit of time composing it). [/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill,

Here's a separate question (different from the question about the "two" spirits).

Speaking of "the [holy] Spirit OF ___________" ... I would like to refer to the previous "for example" I presented above, about which you made NO COMMENT whatsoever.

So, let me ask you this: In the use of the preposition "of" in the expression "the [holy] Spirit <b>OF the Lord Jesus Christ,"</b> which of the following usages is more meaningful and relevant:

(a) "the box OF candy" ["candy" is not the "owner"]
-------- or ------------
(b) "the mind/spirit OF Christ" ["the mind/spirit" belongs to "Christ"]? [/color]
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Bill
Bill

January 6th, 2014, 2:28 pm #25

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill,

Thanks for responding to my specific question earlier.

Please further clarify your position regarding "the Holy Spirit." I'll briefly explain below why I'm asking.

Here it is: I've learned from some of your previous posts that you believe there are two (2) spirits involved in dealing with the subject of "the Holy Spirit":

(1) One is "the holy Spirit OF God [/the Lord Jesus Christ/the Father]
----------------------- and -----------------------
(2) The other being the 3rd Person of "The Trinity" -- THE HOLY SPIRIT.


Is this still your position?[/color]
There is only one God, there is only one Christ, and there is only one Holy Spirit. The three exist separately yet are united as one ("I and my Father are one"--John 10:30 KJV). Just as God sent His Son Jesus into the world, so God sends His Holy Spirit into the world.

"Box OF candy"--this describes the box that contains candy. There is no possession or ownership. Box and candy exist as separate items. This is one way to use "OF."

"Holy Spirit OF God"--the Holy Spirit belongs to God, yet they also exist as separate beings. This is another way to use "OF."

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Bill
Bill

January 6th, 2014, 3:27 pm #26

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill,

Thanks for responding to my specific question earlier.

Please further clarify your position regarding "the Holy Spirit." I'll briefly explain below why I'm asking.

Here it is: I've learned from some of your previous posts that you believe there are two (2) spirits involved in dealing with the subject of "the Holy Spirit":

(1) One is "the holy Spirit OF God [/the Lord Jesus Christ/the Father]
----------------------- and -----------------------
(2) The other being the 3rd Person of "The Trinity" -- THE HOLY SPIRIT.


Is this still your position?[/color]
One other matter: I believe that the Holy Spirit is the third member of the Trinity but is not a physical "person." So that makes me a non-Catholic Trinitarian, to be distinguished from a Catholic Trinitarian, who believes that the Trinity is comprised of three separate (physical?) "persons."
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 6th, 2014, 5:07 pm #27

There is only one God, there is only one Christ, and there is only one Holy Spirit. The three exist separately yet are united as one ("I and my Father are one"--John 10:30 KJV). Just as God sent His Son Jesus into the world, so God sends His Holy Spirit into the world.

"Box OF candy"--this describes the box that contains candy. There is no possession or ownership. Box and candy exist as separate items. This is one way to use "OF."

"Holy Spirit OF God"--the Holy Spirit belongs to God, yet they also exist as separate beings. This is another way to use "OF."
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]I asked the question concerning the "box of candy" separately (see below) because I wanted that discussed separately. (Let's discuss that one later.)

For now I'd like to draw your attention back to the other question I posed: Do you still hold the position:

(1) That "the Spirit of God" [of the Father/of Christ] expressed in some 70+ passages in the Bible

------------- is different from ------------------

(2) That "the Holy Spirit" is the 3rd Person God as espoused in the Trinity Creed?

====================================



The specific question requires a "yes" or "no" answer, whether or not you'd like to qualify the yes/no answer. If I have misunderstood you all along, please let me know.

In regard to your first paragraph, that is simply a restatement of the Trinity Creed, and you actually meant (I think): "one Father, one Son, one Holy Spirit." I see a number of issues in your assertion in that paragraph:

[/color]<ol>[*]The Trinity's "Holy Spirit" as a "PERSON," the "3rd Person," is yet to be proven.
</li>[*]The Bible tells me that Jesus Christ is the only "person" as God's Son.
</li>[*]In John 10:30 (along with numerous passages), it's only about "I and my Father."
</li>[*]In John 10:30, the Trinity's version of "the Holy Spirit" PERSON is missing.
</li>[*]When did God send His Son Jesus into the world?
</li>[*]When did/DOES[?] God send "His Holy Spirit into the world"?
</li>[*]So, God sent two "beings" or "persons" into this world?
</li>[*]As a PERSON or BEING, what is the name of the Trinity's "Holy Spirit"?
</li>[*]Does "His Holy Spirit" imply "begotten" and, therefore, a separate "being"?
</li>[*]Or, does "His Holy Spirit" imply "the Spirit" which is HOLY BELONGING TO GOD?</li>[/list]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 6th, 2014, 5:26 pm #28

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill,

Thanks for responding to my specific question earlier.

Please further clarify your position regarding "the Holy Spirit." I'll briefly explain below why I'm asking.

Here it is: I've learned from some of your previous posts that you believe there are two (2) spirits involved in dealing with the subject of "the Holy Spirit":

(1) One is "the holy Spirit OF God [/the Lord Jesus Christ/the Father]
----------------------- and -----------------------
(2) The other being the 3rd Person of "The Trinity" -- THE HOLY SPIRIT.


Is this still your position?[/color]
Pneuma and Ruwah mean WIND or BREATH. God is bright enough that HE could have said "the Spirit AND Christ." Apparently even His helper, a spirit PEOPLE wasn't smart enough to use the AND word.

If we say that Billy Bob in the pew behind us has the Breath of stale cigarets. We really means that both Billy Bob and a people named "BREATH" are behind us.

NOW, I get it.

"I hear you breathing IN the telephone." No, silly, it is not ME breathing into the telephone but my side-kick BREATH.

So, I retract my "antichrist" charge and appeal to the Davidsanity plea: He thought that if he praised God with HALAL or made himself look vile and insane he was safe because God doesn't punish the mad. When he tried it on a philistine door, the king said 'we have enough MAD MEN already.'

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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 6th, 2014, 5:31 pm #29

One other matter: I believe that the Holy Spirit is the third member of the Trinity but is not a physical "person." So that makes me a non-Catholic Trinitarian, to be distinguished from a Catholic Trinitarian, who believes that the Trinity is comprised of three separate (physical?) "persons."
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]The "Catholic Trinity" teaches that there are THREE separate PERSONS, and it should be apparent that only Jesus Christ is the "physical" person.

It appears that the expression "Catholic Trinity" is troubling you.

What you believe is already known, Bill, that "the Holy Spirit is the third member of the [Catholic] Trinity" and is not a "physical" person -- that is OBVIOUS. Along with that, without your denial, you also agree with the Catholic Trinity's designation or numbering system:

(1) the Father is the FIRST PERSON;
(2) the Son is the SECOND PERSON; and
(3) "the Holy Spirit" is the THIRD PERSON.

How did the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Council(s) come up with that numbering system? I wonder why the Protestant propagators have not bothered to question the Creed and its ranking system among the-three-Gods-in-one!!![/color]

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Bill
Bill

January 6th, 2014, 6:21 pm #30

Jesus is no longer a physical person, even though the Catholics perceive Him to be a physical "person" as part of their Catholic Trinity concept. Jesus is now back with God in heaven as one member of the biblical three-part grouping, AKA Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Matt. 28:19). No member of this biblical grouping is presently a physical "person."

We should make two distinctions regarding concepts about the Trinity:

(1) Catholic Trinity--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate, physical "persons."

(2) Non-Catholic Trinity--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate, heavenly beings who are NOT physical "persons."
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