Bill
Bill

January 3rd, 2014, 10:47 pm #11

We don't get a multiple choice in reading 101a.

Pneuma literally means WIND. If we say the wind OF Christ the definition can only means BREATH or FLATULENCE OF Christ.

In literate Greek or Hebrew 101a, wind was also used FIGURATIVELY of the BREATH. The word can never be the name of a human or divine person. God IS or consists only of WIND. However, in literate society, the word can mean the MIND of a person: that is because the MIND as "father" expresses its mental disposition by BREATHING. The Sword of The Spirit is the LIPS as "double-edged" swords. Sword is used because we CUT or manipulate things by speaking something.

The Word or LOGOS is the regulative principle. Therefore, God regulates or governs by SPEAKING: His MIND (father) breathes (spirit) and ARTICULATES His Word. This is the way God has revealed in language we can comprehend. Word or LOGOS is not something comprehended only as what we can hear: the WORD or LOGOS is how God as Wholly Spirit empowers energy to carry out His will: better leave that one to understand better by and by. If God creates and develops spiritual life by WORDS then we know that they contain power which the Ph.ds will never grasp as they tamper with it.

In 2 Corinthians 3 Paul

Says that the Holy Spirit
<font color="#FFFFFF">....
Is to GOD
What our spirit (mind, heart)
....is to US,
For US (the Apostles) the Holy Breath of God is the MIND of Christ.


Jesus said that MY Words ARE Spirit and Life.

Life is recognized as having BREATH or spirit in it.

The Father is MIND (to we mortals)
The Spirit it BREATH
The Son is the WORD

The single word FIRE! can make a living person into a dead person. The word GUILTY! can put a free person into prison for life plus a hundred years. How silly to think that you MUST have a clergy person to explain what Jesus came to explain.

John 3:33 He that hath received his TESTIMONY hath set to his seal that God is true.

The SPIRIT gave the Prophets and Jesus the TESTIMONY as BREATH

Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the TESTIMONY of Jesus IS the SPIRIT of prophecy.

John 6:63 It is the SPIRIT that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the WORDS that I SPEAK unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are life.


Filled with the SPIRIT (Ephesians 5) is the same as Filled with the WORDS of Christ (Colossians 3) and the command is to SPEAK the Word to minister SPIRIT.

Jesus SPAKE or ARTICULATED what the MIND (father) BREATHED into Him. When God BREATHES into a person they SPEAK: they do not sing, clap and play instruments: that is the spiritus of Abaddon or Apollyon.

John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent SPEAKETH the WORDS of God: for God giveth not the SPIRIT by measure [meter] unto him.

All of the first users of TRIAS defined the SINGULAR ALMIGHTY in the same way: so did the Campbells.

Father is MIND
Spirit is BREATH
Son is WORD. They go on to say that "the SON of God is the WORD of God" meaning that which the Almighty articulates through people. WE are the sons of God by FAITH: that means that when we live by that which is HEARD then we are Sons.

The Spirit OF God is the MIND of God or His "Mental disposition" expressed by BREATHING and ARTICULATING.

If you deny the ONE GOD (Theos)
and the One LORD (kurios) made so by God
Where God is CAPABLE of speaking to His LORD (Moses, Jesus etc).
John said that you are ANTI-Christ because you deny that God can enable People to speak for Him without needing another FAMILY MEMBER as a crutch for His disability!

The ONE MEDIATOR is the MAN Jesus Christ:

</font>
Remember, the preposition "OF" in "the Spirit OF God/Christ/the Lord" can be interpreted a number of different ways. The beautiful fact about that is that all those interpretations work well. It's still a matter of personal choice.
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Bill
Bill

January 3rd, 2014, 11:19 pm #12

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China?

Perhaps I should have said: "Prepositions ... that trouble biblical scholars, Trinitarians, and preachers who would rather look for a new job than seriously study prepositions that would debunk their man-made beliefs."[/color]
Donnie, I'd say that you, too, have never heard any preacher deliver a sermon about the preposition "OF." If you had, you would have said so.

I mentioned sermons about "OF," because apparently liberal and conservative preachers alike don't consider that to be an important and useful topic. It's neither important nor useful, because discussing "OF" in religious circles is nitpicking to the nth degree. It's purely academic minutia.

You limit using "OF" to indicate possession only (which is your personal choice), when I've shown that, as far as the Holy Spirit is concerned, "OF" can be used and interpreted several different ways. Those different interpretations in no way reduce the importance of the Holy Spirit.

It doesn't matter the price of tea in China how we perceive the Holy Spirit: either as an intimate part of God or as a distinct, heavenly entity (or even a "person") that submits to the will of God. Whatever our perception, the Holy Spirit still functions according to God's plan.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 3rd, 2014, 11:26 pm #13

Remember, the preposition "OF" in "the Spirit OF God/Christ/the Lord" can be interpreted a number of different ways. The beautiful fact about that is that all those interpretations work well. It's still a matter of personal choice.
In Romans 14 Paul said that WE don't get personal opinions and the expression of them if we be a Disciple (only) of Christ.

Neo-trinitarians say that the Holy Spirit person is ANOTHER intercessor-mediator.

Paul was inspired to say that:

1Timothy 2:5 For there is ONE GOD
and one mediator between God and men,
the MAN Christ Jesus;

Those who say that the Spirit OF God or Christ is a DIVINE mediator, that denies that the MAN Christ Jesus is the ONE Mediator.

That says that the Spirit OF Christ who informed Paul was a LIAR. That's why the command is to PREACH the Word (only) for Comfort and Doctrine. No one gets the right to speak lies: those who "speak on their own" says Jesus "are sons of the Devil."

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

If you believe and teach something that is not revealed.
Then you claim that your OPINION is equivalent to FAITH.
And FAITH comes only by hearing the WORD of God.
If it is NOT of FAITH it is SIN.

If you say that everyone can have their own opinion.
And Christ in Isaiah says there was NO MAN to speak for God. So God sent His ARM or RIGHT HAND.

Then you say that God who breathed into the Prophets was simply mistaken.

Once you start pumping nails into your spiritual coffin God sends strong delusions so that you cannot stop.

A Disciple of Christ does not WANT any preachable (for pay) personal opinions when we are Washed with water INTO the Word or into the school of Christ. A person with A holy spirit or A good conscience cannot grasp with hands that are supposed to be DEAD to self.

God does not PRAY for those OF the World and those not OF the World follow Jesus who spoke ONLY what He heard from the Father. Jesus said He did not have any personal opinions or words other than that which He heard from the Father.

Too bad, too sad!
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Bill
Bill

January 3rd, 2014, 11:50 pm #14

I must not be a neo-Trinitarian, for I do not think the Holy Spirit is "another mediator." Only Christ is our mediator. The Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit, whether a part of God or a separate entity. Both perceptions work well.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

January 4th, 2014, 8:29 pm #15

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]We've been discussing the significance of the preposition "OF" in what the Scripture teaches:[/color]
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Lord (26 references in O.T.; Luke 4:18; Acts 5:9; 8:39; II Cor. 3:17,18)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF God (14 references in O.T.; 12 references in N.T.)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the living God (II Cor. 3:3)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Christ (Rom. 8:9; I Peter 1:11)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Jesus Christ (Phil. 1:19)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF His Son (Gal. 4:6)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the holy Spirit OF God (Eph. 4:30)
    </li>
  • That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Father (Matt. 10:20)
    </li>
  • ... and many other similar passages as the ones listed above. </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Since there is only ONE Spirit (I Cor. 12:13; Eph. 2:18; Eph. 4:4), it would be erroneous for man to make God formulate or generate a separate BEING apart from "the spirit OF the Lord" that the passages present above. Man does this (generate a Spirit Being) to validate the Trinity Creed that espouses God No. 3 -- "the Holy Spirit."[/color]

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]OK, we are not discussing the troublesome preposition "OF" at this time -- it is being presented here only for your "recollection" as we are about to bring up another preposition that is also troublesome to many biblical scholars and Trinitarian followers.

And what is that other preposition? We're finding out now.

Scripture's message ("Mystery of His Will," November 29 2013, 4:06 PM) really caught my attention. It was published in the extensively-discussed, controversial thread, "Biblical Proof That Jesus Lived in Heaven Before Coming to Earth."[/color]
[color=#000000" size="4" face="times]God has chosen in these last times to unveil the mystery (secret) of His Will (Ephesians 1:7-11). Part of that mystery was the plan for God's Word to descend to become human....

This mystery include the revelation of the existence of Christ identified with Jesus, the redemption through His blood, as the Suffering Savior ... God purposed this from the beginning, and in the New Covenant He has unveiled the Christ. Christ sums up all things in the heavens and things on the earth. These events were predestined according to His purpose, who works all things according the purpose of His Will (Word). ... The revelation of Christ was the unveiling to the temple, the understanding that God was in Christ.[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]It is clear from passages above and in John 1:1,14:

-- That the holy Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ is not another being.
-- That it was "the Word" in the beginning (v. 1) that was made flesh (v.14).
-- That it was "Jesus" in the beginning that became Jesus in v. 14 is fallacious.
-- That the Catholic Trinity's perceived Person No. 3 is not Scripture-based.

Another troubling preposition is "IN" (often substituted or replaced with the verb "IS").

Hopefully, Catholic Trinity followers do not make another mistake due to misuse of prepositions, e.g.:

-- Error: That God was pre-existing Jesus who became Jesus 2000 years ago.
-- Error: That the Word in the beginning was conclusively the pre-existing Jesus.
-- Error: That the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ is "another" Spirit.
-- Error: That there is a REAL "Holy Spirit" -- the Trinity's 3rd PERSON.
-- Error: That there is no distinction between: (1) origination and (2) destination ...
-- ... meaning that when A became (transformed, changed to) B, A was B all along.[/color]

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]And now ... Scripture's remark above: "The revelation of Christ ... the understanding that God was in Christ."

I'm presenting the following passages with the preposition "IN" used in expressions involving God and Christ:[/color]
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]Again, think ye that we excuse ourselves unto you? we speak before God in Christ: but we do all things, dearly beloved, for your edifying. (II Cor. 12:19)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. (Gal. 3:17)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. (Gal. 3:26)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. (Phil. 3:3)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil. 3:14)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. (I Thess. 5:18)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. (I Thess. 4:14)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: (I Cor.1:2)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times]But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: (I Cor. 1:30)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times][14] Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. [17] For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ. (II Cor. 2)

    [/color]</li>
  • [color=#FF0000" size="4" face="times][17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. [19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. [20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. (II Cor. 5)[/color]</li>
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]What does "God IN Christ" mean? Does "God IN Christ" mean the same as "Jesus Christ IS God"?[/color]
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Bill
Bill

January 4th, 2014, 11:36 pm #16

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China?

Perhaps I should have said: "Prepositions ... that trouble biblical scholars, Trinitarians, and preachers who would rather look for a new job than seriously study prepositions that would debunk their man-made beliefs."[/color]
If the preposition "OF" is all that important, if our eternal destiny depends on it, one would think that preachers would devote much sermon time to it and that Bible colleges would build courses around it. But that hasn't happened. As I said eariler, I've never heard anyone preach a sermon about "OF." Furthermore, when I was a student at David Lipscomb College, none of the many Bible courses I took ever devoted a moment to the preposition "OF," nor was it ever mentioned in the daily chapel services that I attended.

The only people troubled by the preposition "OF" are those who cannot accept the fact that "OF" can be interpreted several different ways, that there is no one-and-only interpretation in that regard.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 5th, 2014, 8:48 am #17

Donnie, I'd say that you, too, have never heard any preacher deliver a sermon about the preposition "OF." If you had, you would have said so.

I mentioned sermons about "OF," because apparently liberal and conservative preachers alike don't consider that to be an important and useful topic. It's neither important nor useful, because discussing "OF" in religious circles is nitpicking to the nth degree. It's purely academic minutia.

You limit using "OF" to indicate possession only (which is your personal choice), when I've shown that, as far as the Holy Spirit is concerned, "OF" can be used and interpreted several different ways. Those different interpretations in no way reduce the importance of the Holy Spirit.

It doesn't matter the price of tea in China how we perceive the Holy Spirit: either as an intimate part of God or as a distinct, heavenly entity (or even a "person") that submits to the will of God. Whatever our perception, the Holy Spirit still functions according to God's plan.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China?

Bill, my intent in stating the common saying ABOVE was to stop this nonsensical assertion of yours (or anyone's) regarding this topic as being neither useful nor important to preachers. This site does not rely on what any preacher from whatever religious persuasion thinks or believes regarding this particular study.

Neither is this particular discussion dependent upon YOUR conclusion that the preposition "OF" used in many, many passages dealing with "the holy Spirit OF" the living God or the Lord Jesus Christ "can be used and interpreted several different ways [your words]." That "it does not matter what" rule concerning doctrine leaves YOU open to accepting ANY INTERPRETATION of any doctrinal matter, including many of the Roman Catholic Church's man-made dogmas.

Now, Bill, I do not intend to make and post any more comments about what preachers think; neither should you. Let's just get to the point. Please be prepared to present what you honestly believe the preposition "of" means in each of the expressions in the 70+ passages found in the entire Bible.

Please do not deviate from the specific topic. Your specific interpretation of the preposition "of" in the expression "the [holy] spirit OF ..." is very important in our STUDY concerning this particular Bible topic. Then, defend it with scriptural references. It will certainly be published.[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 5th, 2014, 9:30 am #18

If the preposition "OF" is all that important, if our eternal destiny depends on it, one would think that preachers would devote much sermon time to it and that Bible colleges would build courses around it. But that hasn't happened. As I said eariler, I've never heard anyone preach a sermon about "OF." Furthermore, when I was a student at David Lipscomb College, none of the many Bible courses I took ever devoted a moment to the preposition "OF," nor was it ever mentioned in the daily chapel services that I attended.

The only people troubled by the preposition "OF" are those who cannot accept the fact that "OF" can be interpreted several different ways, that there is no one-and-only interpretation in that regard.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill, you're the only one mentioning: (a) "eternal destiny," or (b) what other "preachers" think, or (c) accepting whatever "can be interpreted several different ways." In addition [speaking of Lipscomb's (d) religion courses], there is a "Worship Leader" course that you might be MORE interested in taking.

Expressing those thoughts (above) does not make you a linguist nor impress serious students of the Bible.

As I've said, let us know: to which specific interpretation concerning the preposition "OF" in those passages do you actually adhere?

Bill, present to us specifically YOUR belief. For example, let us know if the use of the preposition "of" in the expression "the [holy] Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ" is more meaningful and relevant in:

(a) "the box OF candy"
-------- than in ------------
(b) "the mind OF Christ"

. . . your response will be published, and we will spend the time to review and discuss it. (Otherwise, please do not waste your time by repeating those irrelevant statements.)[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

January 5th, 2014, 9:52 am #19

Frankly, there is nothing wrong or sinful about being a biblical scholar and/or a Trinitarian. If using "Trinity" to describe Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is a sin because "Trinity" is not found in the canonical text, then using "Holy Bible" to describe the written Word of God is also a sin, because "Holy Bible" is also not found in the canonical text.

If people feel comfortable perceiving the Holy Spirit as an intimate part of God that cannot exist as a separate entity, that's perfectly fine. People are free to perceive the Holy Spirit that way. The Bible issues no condemnation for our individual perceptions of the Holy Spirit.

If people feel comfortable perceiving the Holy Spirit as a distinct and separate entity or even as a "person," that's also perfectly fine. People are free to perceive the Holy Spirit that way. The Bible issues no condemnation for our individual perceptions of the Holy Spirit.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Bill,

We're not discussing "nothing wrong or sinful."

We're not discussing "Trinity" as a word not found in the Bible.

We're not discussing "Holy Bible" not being in the canonical text.

We're not discussing how comfortable people feel about perceptions.

We're very interested in your presenting to us what you believe the Bible teaches regarding "the holy Spirit OF God" (Ephesians 4:30). There are scores of passages that use the same [or similar] expression in the entire Bible. To have THAT MANY (70+) PASSAGES using the preposition "OF" relative to "the Spirit OF the living God" must be very significant.

We will publish without any hesitation YOUR belief [or "YOUR preference" if that makes it easier for you to express your view] and your defense of such a belief.[/color]
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Bill
Bill

January 5th, 2014, 3:02 pm #20

Donnie, we most certainly are talking about the Trinity and the Holy Spirit. Your lead post in this thread begins by listing at least eight examples using the preposition "OF" with the Holy Spirit. One principal (and maybe the underlying) purpose of this thread is to debunk any beliefs that the Holy Spirit is part of the Trinity, because, in your mind, "the Spirit of God/Christ/Lord" (etc.) ONLY means possession and nothing else.

I'm here to tell readers that "OF" can have other interpretations. You have your own personal interpretation; let other people have theirs. There is nothing wrong with ANY of those interpretations.
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