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July 14th, 2012, 7:23 pm #21

What determines whether a command in the New Testament is or is not a salvation issue?

Is man free to decide for himself whether altering a particular command is a salvation issue or not? That's what man assumes when he says that adding instrumental music to the explicit command to use vocal music is not a salvation issue.

Aren't all of the explicit commands in the New Testament salvation issues?

If we deliberately break, alter, or in any way change those explicit commands to satisfy ourselves, do we not jeopardize our salvation?

Would God/Jesus issue any commands if they were not salvation issues?

Does the New Testament teach that we may do as we please with God's/Jesus' commands with impunity?

Jesus said, "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46 KJV).

Jesus did NOT say, "Ye may add to, alter, and change my explicit commands as ye will and still call me Lord, Lord."

If you expect to have the Lord hear you when you call upon Him, then you must follow His commands AS WRITTEN in the New Testament. No tweaks, enhancements, augmentations, etc.
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July 14th, 2012, 8:50 pm #22

Based on lots of explicit marks of a disciple meaning a Christian; and based on the gibbering of people who use the term, I am convinced that anyone who could whine "Is that a salvation issue?" cannot be a Christian because they don't understand that a Disciple is a student and a student of God through that which is written, is not given the right to judge except where written.

They are so far removed from connection to the HEAD that they simply cannot make a spirit to Spirit connection. They think that God is three men about 6 foot tall and a bit smarter them they. Some have even said that if Jesus or Paul had lived in OUR changed culture they would not have said what they said.

A Disciple of Christ who has been given A holy spirit or A good conscience (consiousness or a co-perception) would never have the urge to do something for which they have to make decisions for God.

A diligent seeker who loves the truth will never burn. However, since God says he hates the soothsaying instruments in the holy places; and He hates those who sow discord, their being wrong might be being "consumed with their own breath" the foyer to being cast alive into the Lake of Fire.

Concerned members just needing feeding.
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July 14th, 2012, 11:50 pm #23

Congrats to Ken for saying that God alone is the judge.

To say "it is not a salvation issue" makes Christianity entirely too individualistic. So in this way of thinking, nothing else matters but just my "individual" salvation. This is the "me" person's way of thinking. Many from both left and right, generally thinking, hesitate to say something is a "salvation issue."

With this thinking, the "church" becomes a totally insignficant organization.

And yet, the church is the organization through which evangelization and individual salvation comes. Salvation comes through the word of God and preaching. Preaching is one of the great works of the Spirit, and preaching comes by the way of the church, which when organized scripturally can be best equipped to produce good preachers.

So it is self-defeating to say that nothing else matters but "salvation issues." The church looses badly here.
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July 15th, 2012, 4:05 pm #24

Preaching would be a lot more effective and less stressing if they knew that God has done all of the work for them: now that's pure grace.

Eph. 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
for you Gentiles,
Eph. 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God
.....which is given me to youward:
Eph. 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph. 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, <b>
.....ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
</b>


The Qahal, Synagogue or Church of Christ in the wilderness continued to teach the prophets and the Law as it related to their Civil lives. The writings of the Greeks makes it clear that they were familiar with the Words of God by attending the synagogues. However, the Jews were still looking to the Law and their own works as proving that one was purified and therefore ceremonially pure. Jesus stood up in the synagogue to read from Isaiah which was already open as the resource being read, explained and commended for people's lives. The Church as Jesus reigning as both King and High priests was His blood bought instrumental means of HIM still remaining as the source for our building up or education. If something is divisive or diminishes the Word of God being taught as it has been taught or the time for teaching, they it IS a Salvation Issue because you tell Jesus: "you are not up to date with OUR culture."

Eph. 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men,
.....as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;


WHAT IS THIS GRACE?

Eph. 3:6 That the Gentiles
.....should be fellowheirs,
.....and of the same body,
.....and partakers of his promise in Christ
.....by THE gospel:
Eph. 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister,
.....according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me
.....by the effectual working of his power.


TO WHOM IS THIS SAME GRACE EXPANDED.

Eph. 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints,
.....is this grace given,
.....that I should preach among the Gentiles
.....the unsearchable riches of Christ;
Eph. 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery,
.....which from the beginning of the world
.....hath been hid in God,
.....who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Eph. 3:10 To the intent that now
.....unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places
.....might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
Eph. 3:11 According to the eternal purpose
.....which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Eph. 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access
.....with confidence by the faith OF him.


That's one good reason to preach and teach the Word (in context) and tell the story God intended: it is pretty difficult to impose something by claiming that it IS discording but it is NOT a salvation issue. Paul excluded those private opinions in Romans 14 so that the assembly (Romans 15) would be dedicated to "that which is written for our learning." That was the only CHURCH the Campbell's intended to restore.
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July 15th, 2012, 4:53 pm #25

Papers out of ACU on preaching makes it clear that they have not read or do not care how God defines SALVATION ISSUES which would clearly MARK FOR AVOIDANCE such people:

2Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ,
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
to them that have obtained like precious faith with us
.....Ghrough the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2Peter 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you
.....through the knowledge of God,
.....and of Jesus our Lord,
2Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness,
.....through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises:
.....that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature,
..... having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

2Peter 1:15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease
.....to have these things always in remembrance.
2Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables,
.....when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,
.....but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2Peter 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory,
.....when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory,
.....This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
2Peter 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard,
.....when we were with him in the holy mount.
2Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy;
.....whereunto ye do well that ye take heed,
.....as unto a light that shineth in a dark place,
..........until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
2Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.


Sorcery or witchcraft was adding rhetoric or music as a means of making people follow your own will.

Epi-lusis A. release from, e. phobôn [fear] didou A.Th.134 (lyr.): abs., exemption from banishment
2. solution, sophismatôn explanation, 2 Ep.Pet.1.20, 2 Pet 3
4. spell, Magic: g4486 rhegnum to sunder by separation of the parts, a shattering to minute fragments; but not a reduction to the constituent particles, or disrupt, lacerate; by implication to convulse (with spasms); figuratively to give vent to joyful emotions:

Sophisma A.acquired skill, method, stage-trick, claptrap, rhetorikos 2. of persons, skilled in speaking, fit to be an orator Pi.O.13.17 2. in less good sense, sly trick, artifice, dikên dounai s. kakôn E.Ba.489 , cf. Hec.258; eph' hêmas tauta paronta s. Th.6.77, cf. D.35.2; stage-trick, claptrap

Pi.O.13.17 Pindar Ode 0.13 [17] the Seasons rich in flowers have cast ancient inventiveness. But the fame for every work is due to its inventor. Whence did the graces of Dionysus first come to light, with the ox-driving dithyramb? [20] Who invented the bridle for the harness of horses, or placed the double king of birds on top of the temples of gods? And in Corinth the sweet-breathing Muse blossoms, and also Ares, with the deadly spears of young men.


There is a good reason--A SALVATION ISSUE--for not IGNORING the prophets as the voice of Christ or using Private Interpretation which means adding personal opinions or ENHANCING the Word of Christ in the PROPHETS (not the kings or priests or Levites) with something RISKY but not a SALVATION ISSUE.

2Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:
.....but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

This was the Spirit OF Christ: the same Spirit Agent Who ordained the Qahal, synagogue or Church of Christ in the wilderness.

1Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently,
.....who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify,
.....when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners
.....spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, [His personified Word]
.....whom he hath appointed heir of all things,
.....by whom also he made the worlds;
Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory,
.....and the express image of his person,
.....and upholding all things by the word of his power,
.....when he had by himself purged our sins,
.....sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;


ALL of the "further expounding" which violates a Direct Commandment and violates common honesty, REPUDIATE the fact that God spoke through the PROPHETS to the spiritual people and DID NOT speak through the Civil-Military-Priestly complex IMPOSED because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai.</font>
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July 15th, 2012, 11:56 pm #26

So, if I understand you correctly, Ken, the Civil-Military-Priestly caste in the Old Testament could not be depended on for the truth of God, but had compromised themselves irretrievably.

So God turned to the prophets, who through the Spirit of God, brought His truth to those in the Old Testament who were ready to accept His truth. Those who accepted His truth were the Spiritual.

This would mean that the Spiritual class today should be wary of the Civil-Military-Priestly class. This would include in a general kind of government, military, and prominent religious leaders. Military mindlessly follow the government or the seculary Commander-in-Chief, while religious leaders are often "sold out."

This today would throw all truth-seekers back into an individual study of the Scriptures, where we would have to dig out the truth for ourselves. And we could look at some of those persecuted for their beliefs today, and there would be truth to be found somewhere, there-about.

Instrumental music, in this way, is like a mind-altering drug, which takes down the mind, and leads it away from logic and the rational, into an outward expression of feeling, far from objective reality. Those deceived by music are the deluded, while those maintaining a logical and rational system are truly the Spiritual.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

July 16th, 2012, 12:03 am #27

Lynn Anderson was one of the first to gain fame and fortune and decided to mount an attack against churches of Christ. He has been instrumental in a Shepherding Movement which collects simple preachers and teaches them how to disband the male leadership and impose musical: lets' begin with a new style of "racing" singing then performance teams.

Lynn has collected the proof passages from NACC sources and the preachers and elders are not disciples and do not know that they lie about each and every mention of an instrument.

http://www.piney.com/Lynn.Anderson.Oak. ... hurch.html

As usual, this begins with an gradually rising promise not to do anything bad.

Phil Barnes affirms the elders authority to DECIDE on using or not using instruments. He says that they have wasted too much time allowing Satan who has WEAPONS keeping them from their task. We will show that all evidence points to Satan as the source and promoter of instruments which, then and now, are held to give off sacred sounds because they have the ability to stimulate all of the LADED BURDEN effects Jesus died to remove.

http://www.piney.com/Phil.Barnes.Madiso ... ments.html

http://www.piney.com/Buck.Dozier.Instru ... hrist.html

I will look first at Wayne Huddleston "proof passage" as one of several reviews of ALL of their scripture passages. No doubt, Buck Dozier is doing all of the thinking as he has from the first massive sowing of discord by adding the "Worship Teams" assuredly one of the vilest ideas since Jesus said that our WORSHIP is IN the place of our perfected spirit as OPPOSED to houses built by human hands.

I will add the JESUS VISION as time permits.
More proof that Instrumental Idolatry carried a Penalty without redemption. We have shown that it was because of Musical Idolatry that God turned Israel over to Worship the Starry host. Because that became God's determined will, THOSE are the gods worshipped during the nont-commanded king, kingdom, temple, animal sacrifices, burnt offerings and the Jacob-cursed Levites performing as exorcists or soothsayers with instruments. No credible student who has read the Bible has missed that fact. NEVERTHELESS, all of the instrumental troublers in Zion INSIST that "a" spirit told them that THIS is what God commanded them to do. And I have absolutely no doubt that a spirit repudiated them by making them into a laughingstock--but not among the scholars.

"The triumphal hymn of Moses had unquestionably a religious character about it; but the employment of music in religious services, though idolatrous, is more distinctly marked in the festivities which attended the erection of the golden calf." (Smith's Bible Dictionary, Music, p. 589).

"In Egypt an ox is honored in place of the god. He is called Apis and he lives in isolation. If he ever goes among the people he stalks along while the lictors make way for him and throngs of boys accompany him, singing songs in his honor. He appears to understand what is happening and seems to wish to be adored. The throngs [of boys] sudddenly become inspired and prophesy the future. (Pliny, Natural History)

Consequently Apollo (Abaddon, Apollyon) was god of prophets and musicians and Pan was god of medicine, music and divination

AMOS CHAPTER 5 JAMESON, FAUCETT, BROWN

http://www.studylight.org/com/jfb/view. ... hapter=005

<font color="#0000FF">21. I hate, I despise--The two verbs joined without a conjunction express God's strong abhorrence.
your feast days--yours; not Mine; I do not acknowledge them: unlike those in Judah, yours are of human, not divine institution.


The Spirit OF Christ in Isaiah 1 and Jeremiah 7 insists that God DID NOT command sacrifices or burnt offerings when He rescued them by grace from Egypt. If sacrifices were ordained in any sense it was as part of God's TURNING THEM OVER TO WORSHIP THE STARRY HOST.

I will not smell--that is, I will take no delight in the sacrifices offered (Ge 8:21; Le 26:31).
in your solemn assemblies--literally, "days of restraint." Isa 1:10-15 is parallel. Isaiah is fuller; Amos, more condensed. Amos condemns Israel not only on the ground of their thinking to satisfy God by sacrifices without obedience (the charge brought by Isaiah against the Jews), but also because even their external ritual was a mere corruption, and unsanctioned by God.

22. meat offerings--flour, &c. Unbloody offerings.
peace offerings--offerings for obtaining from God peace and prosperity. Hebrew, "thank offerings."

23. Take . . . away from me--literally, "Take away, from upon Me";
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
the idea being that of a burden pressing upon the bearer.
.....So Isa 1:14, "They are a trouble unto Me (literally, 'a burden upon Me'): I am weary to bear them."
the noise of thy songs--The hymns and instrumental music on sacred occasions are to Me nothing but a disagreeable noise.
I will not hear--Isaiah substitutes "prayers" (Isa 1:15) for the "songs" and "melody" here; but, like Amos, closes with "I will not hear."

Hence the Phnicians offered human sacrifices to him, children especially; so idolatrous Israel also. Rimmon was the Syrian name (2Ki 5:18); pronounced as Remvan, or "Remphan," just as Chiun was also Chevan. Molech had the form of a king; Chevan, or Chiun, of a star [GROTIUS]. Remphan was the Egyptian name for Saturn: hence the Septuagint translator of Amos gave the Egyptian name for the Hebrew, being an Egyptian. [HODIUS II, De Bibliorum Textibus Originalibus. 4.115]. The same as the Nile, of which the Egyptians made the star Saturn the representative [HARENBERG]. BENGEL considers Remphan or Rephan akin to Teraphim and Remphis, the name of a king of Egypt. The Hebrews became infected with Sabeanism, the oldest form of idolatry, the worship of the Saba or starry hosts, in their stay in the Arabian desert, where Job notices its prevalence (Job 31:26); in opposition, in Am 5:27, Jehovah declares Himself "the God of hosts."
the star of your god--R. ISAAC CARO says all the astrologers represented Saturn as the star of Israel. Probably there was a figure of a star on the head of the image of the idol, to represent the planet Saturn; hence "images" correspond to "star" in the parallel clause. A star in hieroglyphics represents God (Nu 24:17). "Images" are either a Hebraism for "image," or refer to the many images made to represent Chiun.

27. beyond Damascus--In Ac 7:43 it is "beyond Babylon," which includes beyond Damascus. In Amos' time, Damascus was the object of Israel's fear because of the Syrian wars. Babylon was not yet named as the place of their captivity. Stephen supplies this name. Their place of exile was in fact, as he states, "beyond Babylon," in Halah and Habor by the river Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes (2Ki 17:6; compare here Am 1:5; 4:3; 6:14).

The road to Assyria lay through "Damascus." It is therefore specified,
.....that not merely shall they be carried captives to Damascus,
.....as they had been by Syrian kings (2Ki 10:32, 33; 13:7),
..... but, beyond that, to a region whence a return was not so possible as from Damascus.
.....They were led captive by Satan into idolatry,
.....therefore God caused them to go captive among idolaters.
.....Compare 2Ki 15:29; 16:9; Isa 8:4, whence it appears Tiglath-pileser
.....attacked Israel and Damascus at the same time at Ahaz' request (Am 3:11).
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July 16th, 2012, 1:00 am #28

So, if I understand you correctly, Ken, the Civil-Military-Priestly caste in the Old Testament could not be depended on for the truth of God, but had compromised themselves irretrievably.

True: If you read Acts 7 about God turning Israel over to worship the starry host instead of the CREATOR of the hosts of heaven, a spiritual (rational) person would jump on that with both feet. In Genesis 49 Jacob warned us not to make a covenant or attend an assembly (ekklesia-synagogue) with them. For those not part of the Levites, God provided that teachers be assigned down to as few as 10 (probably heads of household). The Jews must have grasped that and allowed ten mature males to set up a synagogue because they COULD NOT travel to the Temple during the national sacrifices which God imposed but did not command.

So God turned to the prophets, who through the Spirit of God, brought His truth to those in the Old Testament who were ready to accept His truth. Those who accepted His truth were the Spiritual.

In Matthew 13 Jesus refused to speak to those who CHANGED the word so they could teach their own dogma. This class He calls hypocrites--speakers, singers and instrument players in Ezekiel 33--would not be able to comprehend the "parables" which were hidden in plain site in the text. Paul said that you have to be converted and receive A holy spirit or A good conscience before you can read BLACK text on BROWN paper.

Matthew 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,
.....I will open my mouth in parables;
.....I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.
Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father,
.....inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Luke 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets,
.....which was shed from the foundation of the world,
.....may be required of this generation

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets,
.....Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Built upon, edification or education is ONLY through the Prophets (by Christ) and the Apostles (Christ made the PROPHETS more certain. The Scholars are sorely plagued by Messianic Jews trying to restore the Law.

This would mean that the Spiritual class today should be wary of the Civil-Military-Priestly class. This would include in a general kind of government, military, and prominent religious leaders. Military mindlessly follow the government or the seculary Commander-in-Chief, while religious leaders are often "sold out."

It should be obvious that those turning their school of the Word into a "theater for holy entertainment" are in fact THE legalists believing that they can do a musical performance and appease God:

"That the spiritualistic and the legalistic are not polar opposites but in fact correlatives has been one of the discoveries of this study... If the Spirit does not come to us freely in Christ then we must go to him through some kind of spiritual achievement and this means, ultimately, via law." "
One of the most striking aspects of the Scrolls is the coincidence in them of a 'legalistic' and a 'charismatic' piety." (Bruner, A Theology of the Holy Spirit, p. 229)


The "elders" demanded that God Set A King Over us. This is fulfilled by a violent attack upon the leadership of Elders and Deacons: Deacons are being delisted and replaced by "Ministers of Bad Breath." The Preacher wants to be THE Pastor and in fact those imposing "worship teams" and Instruments have found some way to coerce the elders into agreeing or resigning. The Shepherding Movement promoted by Lynn Anderson has penetrated into many of these changed churches: this involves everyone telling the "prayer circle's" leader all of you secrets. It is a fact that these groups feed back the confessions and they are put on file. If you dare cross them, says Erasmus, they will use the "confession" to EXCISE you and they say: "Get over it or get out." This is not just "diversity" but an outbreak of demonism as we watch. Donnie's "elders" insisted that NO ONE bother the leaders unless it was a "salvation issue."

You cannot defend the ABANDONED Civil-Military-Clergy complex and prove that you have ever read the Bible beyond "passing that test." For instance, when the elders hired a Senior Preaching Pastor as a king set over us, this was the SIGN that God "gave them kings in His anger" to carry out the captivity and death sentence imposed at Mount Sinai.

http://www.piney.com/First-Samuel-Eight.html

This today would throw all truth-seekers back into an individual study of the Scriptures, where we would have to dig out the truth for ourselves. And we could look at some of those persecuted for their beliefs today, and there would be truth to be found somewhere, there-about.

Jesus sent out to seek and make disciples: there is little early effort that the poor priests who called themselves The Church of Christ ever concentrated on the massses but set up schools. Disciples come one at a time and the modern church seeks--and some boast--about destroying "individuation" (Shelly) and developing a GROUP MENTALITY where individuals give up their right to read, interpret or speak the word not approved by the Community (commune). Thise who will be saved must "believe and diligently seek him." No "commune" can do that for you. The assembly as A Schoolf of Christ (Campbells) is still desirable.

Certainly not the people but the NACC has never cease but intensified the persecution of those they label ANTI-instrumentalists. That means that people who will NOT conform or confirm instruments are FAIR GAIN for attacks. Considering the numbers involved, I don't think that there has been a more hostile against those who "speaking where the Bible speaks" (meaning speak that which is written for our learning" (Rom 15). If they boast about taking "your" children to retreats and intentionally subjecting them to lots of instrumental music to "teach them to leave our movement" I have no doubt that they would break your legs if they could get by with it.

Instrumental music, in this way, is like a mind-altering drug, which takes down the mind, and leads it away from logic and the rational, into an outward expression of feeling, far from objective reality. Those deceived by music are the deluded, while those maintaining a logical and rational system are truly the Spiritual.

The accounts of Genun (composite of Jubal, Jabal, Tubal-Cain and Naamah) on Babylonian accounts prove that "fathering" the use of musical instruments--without authority says Genesis--was to collect all of the God-given animals, put them in pens and then sell them back to you.

The accounts of Nimrod say that he led about a team of female musicians claiming to "regenerate morals through external means." Modern science knows that the louder and more complex the harmony the more destructive it is to the body and spirit God wants to be meek and gentle.

Modern science knows that loud music can boil an egg and creates endorphins and other thingies which induce the impulse to Fight, Flight or Sexuality. I have no doubt that it is intentional because the SEEKER impulse is defined perfectly in Mein Kampf and Machiavelli who is quoted to encourage people because change may be slow.

While the instruments have been imposed in few congregations, I believe that "worship" as the only purpose has infected lots by Agents trained and sent out---as boasted--by ACU professors. With no remembered exception conservative preachers wax hostile when you tell them: NO, God did not command "instrumental worship" under the Monarchy.
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on July 16th, 2012, 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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July 16th, 2012, 1:35 am #29

So, if I understand you correctly, Ken, the Civil-Military-Priestly caste in the Old Testament could not be depended on for the truth of God, but had compromised themselves irretrievably.

So God turned to the prophets, who through the Spirit of God, brought His truth to those in the Old Testament who were ready to accept His truth. Those who accepted His truth were the Spiritual.

This would mean that the Spiritual class today should be wary of the Civil-Military-Priestly class. This would include in a general kind of government, military, and prominent religious leaders. Military mindlessly follow the government or the seculary Commander-in-Chief, while religious leaders are often "sold out."

This today would throw all truth-seekers back into an individual study of the Scriptures, where we would have to dig out the truth for ourselves. And we could look at some of those persecuted for their beliefs today, and there would be truth to be found somewhere, there-about.

Instrumental music, in this way, is like a mind-altering drug, which takes down the mind, and leads it away from logic and the rational, into an outward expression of feeling, far from objective reality. Those deceived by music are the deluded, while those maintaining a logical and rational system are truly the Spiritual.
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Great point, Scripture!

Instrumental music is a form of a mind-altering drug that leads one away from the pure, unadulterated truth into a "religious experience." The so-called "truth-seekers" already IN the church are actually "compromise-seekers" with the other "nations" already known for their "religious experiences."

Can you imagine the apostles, elders and other disciples in the early church indulging in this mind-altering drug? They had with them the spiritual sword, God's truth -- not the flute, the harp, the sackbut, the trumpet, the musical band with the "HOLY ENTERTAINMENT" bit.[/color]
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July 18th, 2012, 6:09 pm #30

Lynn Anderson was one of the first to gain fame and fortune and decided to mount an attack against churches of Christ. He has been instrumental in a Shepherding Movement which collects simple preachers and teaches them how to disband the male leadership and impose musical: lets' begin with a new style of "racing" singing then performance teams.

Lynn has collected the proof passages from NACC sources and the preachers and elders are not disciples and do not know that they lie about each and every mention of an instrument.

http://www.piney.com/Lynn.Anderson.Oak. ... hurch.html

As usual, this begins with an gradually rising promise not to do anything bad.

Phil Barnes affirms the elders authority to DECIDE on using or not using instruments. He says that they have wasted too much time allowing Satan who has WEAPONS keeping them from their task. We will show that all evidence points to Satan as the source and promoter of instruments which, then and now, are held to give off sacred sounds because they have the ability to stimulate all of the LADED BURDEN effects Jesus died to remove.

http://www.piney.com/Phil.Barnes.Madiso ... ments.html

http://www.piney.com/Buck.Dozier.Instru ... hrist.html

I will look first at Wayne Huddleston "proof passage" as one of several reviews of ALL of their scripture passages. No doubt, Buck Dozier is doing all of the thinking as he has from the first massive sowing of discord by adding the "Worship Teams" assuredly one of the vilest ideas since Jesus said that our WORSHIP is IN the place of our perfected spirit as OPPOSED to houses built by human hands.

I will add the JESUS VISION as time permits.
Ken, this is why I asked you to affirm what you have stated (see below). I am not trying to trap you but just trying to understand your posts. YOU judged me in your very next post. Let's keep it civil.


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Lynn Anderson Oak Hills Church


Instrumental Music is a Salvation Issue: Proof is that nothing has occupied more unauthorized preacher than trying to force churches to add instrumental music in what they call "worship." Christ in the prophets knew that the serpent in the garden of Eden was a musical enchanter (ess) which he called "a singing and harp playing prostitute." In Matthew He warned that truth had been hidden from the Scribes and Pharisees, or hypocrites which are named as performance speakers, singers and instrument players in Ezekiel 33.


http://www.piney.com/Lynn.Anderson.Oak. ... hurch.html

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