Park Hill Church of Christ changes name! Fort Worth, Tx.

Hazel P.
Hazel P.

April 25th, 2005, 8:07 am #51

Quoting those passages just proves my point. I suggest that you get a lamb and call it JESUS and slit its throat, skin it, gut it, smell the blood, smell the dung, smell the burning flesh and THEN you will see what you are doing with your proof texts when I AM CERTAIN that you have never read the chapters much less the context connected to the RISING UP to Play at Mount Sinai which was musical idolatry involving singing, clapping, playing instruments and PLAYING sexually. For that God abandoned the nation to worship the STARRY HOSTS which includes Saturn who is Chaldee 666. What you see in the Old Testament is a nation being led by hand-selected kings to carry out the captivity and death sentence. They will be led into captivity and ETERNAL BURNING to the beat of instrumental music.

http://www.piney.com/Isa30LXX.html

The MUSIC-sexuality-homosexuality connection is as old as the towers of Babylon. Modern science concurs: you are just inducing into yourself and others a SEXUAL feeling induced by the sounds and body worship. For about half of the audience you FLAUNT yourself before you produce endorphins (morphine overdose) which induces FIGHT or FLIGHT. When the musical idolaters PERFORMED at Mount Sinai they THOUGHT that they were worshiping. However, God said that others would see them as a LAUGHINGSTOCK.

That is why Jerusalem is called SODOM and when the Harlot Worship leader goes back into hell she will carry all of her THEATRICAL PERFORMERS.
  • <font color=blue>Rev 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; </font>
All religious singers and musicians were known as the HAREM OF THE GODS. When they PERFORMED they were involved in ritual prostitution with the gods THROUGH his "agents." Your misleaders are USING you to sell religion with sex. Hope you don't CHARGE!

Have a happy RIDE as you TRAFFICK yourself like Lucifer who is ZOE.
Ken,

If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!

If God is love and you are one with God, then where is the love, Ken?

I have never read such ugly and hateful things in all my life! And from a man who claims to be a concerned member of Christ's body? I am almost ashamed to call myself a Christian if your treatment of these folks is a reflection of Christ. I don't care if you agree or disagree with the people on this page. You should never have said some of the things I have read here today! If I were your mother, I would hold you down and wash your mouth out with soap! That is what happened to me when I said mean and hurtful things to others. You should be ashamed!

I think that should just about sum up what I have to say to you!

BE NICE!!
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Anonymous
Anonymous

April 25th, 2005, 9:01 pm #52

This is not a "be bad" ..."be nice" issue. We are talking about CONCERN for a congregation of the Lord's Church that has been overrun and taken over with the "community church" and "purpose driven" mess. There is a "narrow" gate and a "wide" gate and we have got to expose all this error happening here and elsewhere. I am calling on the troops of the Lord to visit this place and expose error and those who are promoting it! Where are you! It is time to stand up!
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

April 25th, 2005, 9:28 pm #53

Ken,

If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!
If you speak, speak as though you are speaking the very words of God!

If God is love and you are one with God, then where is the love, Ken?

I have never read such ugly and hateful things in all my life! And from a man who claims to be a concerned member of Christ's body? I am almost ashamed to call myself a Christian if your treatment of these folks is a reflection of Christ. I don't care if you agree or disagree with the people on this page. You should never have said some of the things I have read here today! If I were your mother, I would hold you down and wash your mouth out with soap! That is what happened to me when I said mean and hurtful things to others. You should be ashamed!

I think that should just about sum up what I have to say to you!

BE NICE!!
I am in the business of telling people the facts: If you want to make love then go watch the singy-clappy girls next Sunday. JUST LOVOOVEEE is just a LIEEEEE.

There is only SELF LOVE when performance preachers and THEATRICAL PERFORMERS ACT UP right there in the "Holy Place."

If you were my mother I probably would EAT her soap: made of pig lard and lie. My mother would know enough not to tolerate one of her three girls PERFORMING PUBLICALLY and pretending to lead the worshipers into the presence of God. As an organist and guitar player my mother could not abide the music AS WORSHIP in my dad's Methodist church and returned to be a Campbellite where LOVE

Musical instruments WERE idols and Homes of The Gods: Even David tried to AWAKEN his lyre so that he could awaken the dawn.
  • <font color=blue>Hab 2:19 Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it.

    Hab 2:20 But the Lord is in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him.</font>
The preachers make fun of Adab and Abihu but Paul referred to rejecting God's commandments:
  • <font color=red>Heb 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

    Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

    Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire. </font>
If there is NO EXCEPTION to the rule that singers and instrumentalists in religion were ALWAYS pretending to be THE HAREM OF THE GODS" then it is LOVE to warn the audience because the PERFORMERS have been marked based on the Book of Enoch. When you accept worship as the king/queen of Babylon who went into hell to rot on a bed of maggots and be consumed with his/her harps and harpists" then WORMS or MAGGOTS will consume you.

Ken
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

April 25th, 2005, 10:56 pm #54

Colossians 3:16-17 "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him."

James 5:13 "Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms."

Revelation 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Ephesians 5:19 "speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord;"

Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kind-ness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. (Col. 3:11-16).

And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. (Eph. 5:18-21).


What exactly are Psalms I said to myself, so I did a little research and look what I found to be the definition of psalms.

Psalm (Greek - PSALMOS) has a meaning of singing with instrumental accompaniment.

"Song, psalm: to stringed instrument" (Karl Feyerabend, Ph.D., Greek-English Dictionary, Mc Kay co., 1918).
Song accompanied by a stringed instrument, psalm" (A Glossary of Later Latin to 600 A.D., by A. Souter, Oxford, Clarendon Press). Psallo: (verb) "I play on
the harp (or other stringed instrument;" psalmos (noun), "a psalm, that is a song of praise, etc., to God, with an accompaniment on the harp," (A. Souter, A Pocket Lexicon to the Greek New Testament, Oxford, Clarendon Press).


Psalm "Sung to the accompaniment of stringed instruments" (Harper’s Bible Dictionary, p. 589).

Psalm"In Hebrew and Greek the root meaning is to play instrumental music, and then to sing to musical accompaniment" (A. Coken, Ph.D., Psalm, Soncino Press, p. 10).

"Psalm is properly a ‘song with musical accompaniment’" (Eph., Feign-Kinsman Dictionary of the Bible, p. 441).

""PSALMOS, a translation of the Hebrew specific term MIZMOR, meaning, ‘a song set to stringed instruments’" (John Franklin, A Guidebook to the Biblical Literature, Ginn & Co., N.Y., p. 433).

"PSALMOS, a translation of the Hebrew specific term MIZMOR, meaning, ‘a song set to stringed instruments’" (John Franklin, A Guidebook to the Biblical Literature, Ginn & Co., N.Y., p. 433).

Psalm "Signifies, first, the action of playing any harp-like instrument, then the music thus produced, and finally the song sung to the accompaniment of a harp-like instrument" (Ency. Dictionary of the Bible, McGraaw-Hill, N.Y., p. 1954).

The ‘psalm’ (Eph. 5:19) may be understood in general as ‘a sacred song chanted to the accompaniment of instrumental music’" (Alvah Harvey, D.D., LL.D., Ephesians, Philadelphia, 1887).

Psalm "It is used of a song as accompanied by any instrument, not merely stringed instruments" (James Stewart Perowne, Old Testament Revision Committee, Psalms).

Psalm "A jubilant song of praise to accompaniment of music...applicable to any piece designed to be sung to a musical accompaniment" (Encyclopedia Biblica, p. 3921).

Psalm "The leading idea of psalm is a musical accompaniment." (Thayer’s Addition, Grimm/Wilke’s Greek-English Lexicon, p. 637).

Psalm "to cause to vibrate by touching, to twang, to touch or strike the chord, to twang the strings of a musical instrument, to play a stringed instrument". This definition is attributed to Aristotle around 384 B.C.


psalm
noun


1. A sacred song, especially one from the Book of Psalms in the Old Testament.

Thesaurus: hymn, canticle, sacred song, paean.
Etymology: 10c: from Latin psalmus, from Greek psalmos a song sung to a harp, from psallein to play the harp.



A psalm (Hebrew and Greek words) was a poem of set structure to be sung to the accompaniment of stringed instruments" (Catholic Ency., p. 534).
B) Hymn (Greek - HUMNOS) means singing a praise to God.
C) Song (Greek - ODE) means a general word for a song, whether accompanied or unaccompanied, whether of praise or on any subject



It seems to me that if God had indeed changed his mind about the use of instruments in worship He would have been a little more direct in telling us so. He gave us many words in the old testament on the use of instruments why then were we never commanded not to. The use of the word Psalms or Psalmos obviously did not need any further description of the use of instruments because it was already covered in the Old Testament. You give many examples of the Harlet and the Harp and many other less honorable people that were associated with certain instruments, but I ask you. who did Jesus associate himself with. Mary Magdeline was no angel. I believe she to was a Harlet. So what are you really saying sir.

Now i take this a step further and find these references in Revelation. I am sure there are more but these are 2 I will share.

Revelation 14:2-3 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Revelation 15:2-3 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

Now you may argue but that occurs in heaven. And I would say and your point being?

Our father who art in Heaven, hollowed be thy name. Thy Kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. For thine is the Kingdom and the power and the glory for ever and ever.
Amen

I also wonder where in the scriptures exactly it says that song books, tuning forks, individual communion cups, wafers, um what else dos the Church of Christ use in worship that may not be specifically mentioned in the Bible. I think you are the one that has fallen into the legalism of a denomination that has instilled upon you rules of man.


I read your words and feel like the same could be said back to you. I hope that you are not a true reflection of your denomination. It frightens me to think that there are people like you who call themselfs Christian yet have so much hate and anger in them. I believe you are making a mockery of C of C and which I do not believe to right. I have no problem with open honest dialogu but ahlf of the garbage you write does not even make sence.

God be with your soul and I believe he will use this page to glorify Him and not for whatever your purpose is. It obviously is not to share Gods love with anyone.

Annonymous I am glad you came back to visit. I am sorry I did not get an opportunity to visit with you. I am by no means a bible scolar and do not profess to be one. I am a child of God honestly seeking out His will for me. I hope you will come back and stay for service and get to know us a bit better. We are ultimately seeking the same thing, to serve and love God with all our hearts and bring others to know of His love and Grace.
God didn't NEED to change His Mind because YOU cannot find ONE EXAMPLE in the Bible involving "congregational singing with instrumental accompaniment." I told you that Jesus CAST OUT the musical minstrels from His healing presence as one CASTS OUT DUNG because the musicians such as flute-girls were under the control of the person who regulated PRACTICES and PRICES, the cemetary and the DUNG HEAP.

Sorry, Kim but you are pulling verses out of context: you need to read the whole story. But singing, clapping and playing instruments along with performance preaching INTENDS to silence the WORD of God: that is the meaning of many instrumental passages.

Psallo means to PLUCK with the fingers and NOT WITH A PLECTRUM. It applies only to PLUCKED bow strings or lyre strings: both done by our Abaddon or Apollyon who was, like Lucifer, always equipped with both war and music devices.

ONE writer first used PSALLO to mean pluck the harp string meaning to YANK. Therefore, there is NO dictionary for PSALLO: you have to go to the original literature. Your writers HAVE NOT investigated the literature I HAVE and I have posted the important stuff. You cannot use PSALLO to play a guitar with a pick, blow a flute (to pollute or prostitute), beat a drum or cymbal. The word LITERALLY OUTLAWS and is a DIRECT COMMAND against MAKING MUSIC.

NO Hebrew or Greek word means to PLAY A MUSICAL INSTRUMENT. If you are singing then ALL Bible passages identify three things:

1. The word sing often means that it CAN be played. By definition a SONG is metrical and can be played.

2. You need the word PLUCK or PLAY: this COULD mean pluck a bow string, pluck a harp string, pluck a hair off the head, pluck a chalk line or pluck a hair which was REQUIRED by the male instrumentalists as PRETEND females.

3. Finally, you need to define THE TYPE OF INSTRUMENT if you are going to pluck a harp string which made more noise than music. Melody would be about three or four notes in a sequence and PROHIBITS harmony. EXAMPLE of melody. Note that verse 16 DEFINES singing AS A PROSTITUTE:
  • <font color=blue>And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre [Lucifer=Zoe] shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot. Isa 23:15

    WHICH GOES: Take an 1. harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; 2. make sweet MELODY, 3. SING many songs, that thou mayest be remembered. Isa 23:16 </font>
There is NO example in the published Greek Literature which uses PSALLO to mean PLUCK as in plucking harp strings which does not DIRECTLY connect it to a homosexual grooming a young boy. Philip chided Alexander the Great saying that no respectable man should be able to PSALLO the harp so well. That is because it was reserved for prostitutes or sodomites in religious festivals.

The resulting SOUND is a TWANGING or sound which with the BOW intended to GRIND YOU INTO BITS: that is the BASE meaning of Psallo. It has the same BASE meaning of the SOP Jesus hand ground for Judas and SIGNALED that Satan would come into him. It WAS prophesied that Judas would try to silence Jesus with MUSIC!

SEE WHY PAUL COMMANDED THAT THE MELODY BE IN THE HEART. If he had wanted to included a harp he would have used the word PSALMODIA which I can assure you no college professor writing "dictionaries" would know about.

Aristotle noted that when people run out of productive work, pride often causes them to turn to music.
  • <font color=blue>Moreover the flute is not a moralizing but rather an exciting influence, so that it ought to be used for occasions of the kind at which attendance has the effect of purification [charismatic madness by Apollo or Abaddon] rather than INSTRUCTIONS
    • Chalal (h2490) to break (one's word), to begin (as if by an "opening wedge"); denom. (from 2485) to play (the flute): defile, * break, defile, take inheritance, pipe, player on instruments, pollute, (cast as) profane (self), prostitute,slay (slain), sorrow, stain, wound.
    </font>
David's PRAISE word gave rise to the word LUCIFER who was CAST AS PROFANE out of heaven and wholly seduced Eve in the garden of Eden with HER pipes and tabrets.
  • <font color=blue>And let us add that the flute happens to possess the additional property telling against its use in education that playing it prevents the employment of speech. Hence former ages rightly rejected its use by the young and the free, although at first they had employed it.

    For as they came to have more leisure because of their wealth and grew more high-spirited and valorous, both at a still earlier date and because after the Persian Wars they were filled with pride as a result of their achievements

    A wealthy citizen (choregus) who undertook the duty of equipping and training a chorus for a religious celebration (especially the production of a drama at Athens)

    usually had an assistant of LOWER station to supply the instrumental music. [Note: When the Jews in 1815 added the first instruments to compete with the Christians, they quite naturally hired Gentile musicians] </font>
Women who were public singers and players were universally prostitutes. It is well document that MALES who did so were DRUNK or EFFEMINATE. That has always been the PERSONA and reputation of public musicians.

GREGORY OF NYSSA (died c394)
  • <font color=blue>8 . Now since man is a rational [spiritual] animal,

    the instrument of his body must be made suitable for the use of REASON;
    • as you may see musicians producing their music according to the form of their instruments,
      and not piping with harps nor harping upon flutes,
    so it must needs be that the organization of these instruments of OURS should be adapted for reason,
    • that when struck by the VOCAL ORGANS it might be able to sound properly for the use of WORDS. [Paul commanded SPEAK]
    2. And as some skilled musician, who may have been deprived by some affection of his own voice, and yet wish to make his skill known,
    • might MAKE MELODY with VOICES of others,
      and publish his art by the aid of flutes or of the lyre,
    so also the HUMAN MIND [spirit] being a discoverer of all sorts of conceptions, seeing that it is unable, by the mere soul, to reveal to those who hear by bodily senses the motions of its understanding, touches, [plucks] like some skillful composer,
    • these animated instruments, and makes known its hidden thoughts by means of the sound produced upon them.
    </font>
If you will remember Psalm 150: the INSTRUMENTS were only those which HAD BREATH.
God gave us the HARPS OF GOD so that we can OFFER the sacrifice of the fruit of the LIPS. This writer and PAUL defines the PSALLOING or MAKING MELODY with the voice and in the HEART.

You are seeking justification for what you are doing 'SPITE OF HELL but you repudiate the Bible and ALL of church history. The early introduction of instruments DID NOT accompany instrumental music because EVERYONE knew better.
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Anonymous
Anonymous

April 26th, 2005, 5:10 pm #55

I am in the business of telling people the facts: If you want to make love then go watch the singy-clappy girls next Sunday. JUST LOVOOVEEE is just a LIEEEEE.

There is only SELF LOVE when performance preachers and THEATRICAL PERFORMERS ACT UP right there in the "Holy Place."

If you were my mother I probably would EAT her soap: made of pig lard and lie. My mother would know enough not to tolerate one of her three girls PERFORMING PUBLICALLY and pretending to lead the worshipers into the presence of God. As an organist and guitar player my mother could not abide the music AS WORSHIP in my dad's Methodist church and returned to be a Campbellite where LOVE

Musical instruments WERE idols and Homes of The Gods: Even David tried to AWAKEN his lyre so that he could awaken the dawn.
  • <font color=blue>Hab 2:19 Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it.

    Hab 2:20 But the Lord is in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him.</font>
The preachers make fun of Adab and Abihu but Paul referred to rejecting God's commandments:
  • <font color=red>Heb 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

    Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

    Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire. </font>
If there is NO EXCEPTION to the rule that singers and instrumentalists in religion were ALWAYS pretending to be THE HAREM OF THE GODS" then it is LOVE to warn the audience because the PERFORMERS have been marked based on the Book of Enoch. When you accept worship as the king/queen of Babylon who went into hell to rot on a bed of maggots and be consumed with his/her harps and harpists" then WORMS or MAGGOTS will consume you.

Ken
What gutter is your mind in that you can manage to twist a person's worship into something sexual? Am I understanding what you are trying to imply correctly?....Are you calling me a prostitute if I choose to clap along with a song?
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

April 27th, 2005, 2:27 am #56

None of Biblical hand clapping has to do with "worship in praise to God."

<font color=red>Caphaq (h5606) saw-fak'; or saphaq (1 Kings 20:10; Job 27:23; Isa. 2:6), saw-fak'; a prim. root; to clap the hands (in token of compact, derision, grief, indignation or punishment); by impl. of satisfaction, to be enough; by impl. of excess, to vomit: - clap, smite, strike, suffice, wallow </font>
  • <font color=blue>And Balaks anger was kindled against Balaam, and he smote his hands together: and Balak said unto Balaam, I called thee to curse mine enemies, and, behold, thou hast altogether blessed them these three times. Nu.24:10

    Men shall clap their hands at him, and shall hiss him out of his place. Jb.27:23
    • For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God. Jb.34:37
    Therefore thou hast forsaken thy people the house of Jacob, because they be replenished from the east, and are soothsayers like the Philistines, and they please themselves in the children of strangers. Is.2:6
    • Make ye him drunken; for he magnified himself against the Lord: Moab also shall wallow in his vomit, and he also shall be in derision. Je.48:26
    All that pass by clap their hands at thee; they hiss and wag their head at the daughter of Jerusalem, saying, Is this the city that men call The perfection of beauty, The joy of the whole earth? Lam.2:15
    • And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Re.11:8
    </font>
Connected to Rising Up To Play in Musical Idolatry:
  • <font color=blue>And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play. Ex.32:6
    • Cachaq (h6711) tsaw-khak'; a prim. root; to laugh outright (in merriment or scorn); by impl. to sport: - laugh, mock, play, make sport.
    And it came to pass, when their hearts were merry, that they said, Call for Samson, that he may make us sport (h7832) . And they called for Samson out of the prison house; and he made them sport (h6711) : and they set him between the pillars. Jud.16:25
    • Sachaq (h7832) saw-khak'; a prim. root; to laugh (in pleasure or detraction); by impl. to play: - deride, have in derision, laugh, make merry, mock (-er), play, rejoice, (laugh to) scorn, be in (make) sport.
    And David and all the house of Israel played (h7832) before the Lord on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals. 2S.6:5
    • Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 1 Co.10:7
    </font>
This is certainly not talking about praise or worship nor in the context of music. You will notice that David stripped off with the following girls and claimed that he was honored in their eyes and he would make himself even more vile. His praise meant to make a fool of himself with the girls.

100% Image: judge yourself.
Jesus CAST OUT the musical minstrels (always men or perverted males) as one FLINGS OUT DUNG. Just as Lucifer (Zoe) was CAST AS PROFANE OUT OF HEAVEN with a word meaning to "play the flute, steal other's inheritance, pollute or prostitute."

Worship means to GIVE HEED TO. All theatrical performers say WATCH ME and if female you are violating Paul's direct command against exercising AUTHORITY which is AUTHENTIA which is erotic and murderous. SILENT in church also means SEDENTARY or you INTEND to display yourself. It is self-evident.

That is why you DRIVE OUT the spiritually mature INTENTIONALLY.
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Scott
Scott

April 27th, 2005, 11:51 am #57

From your message I cannot tell whether you are for Parkhill or against it? Have you even been there? This is a church that has freed itself from the baggage of "man-made" legalism and had chosen to focus on the fact that each of us can be saved by Grace. I get so frustrated by those of you that can't seem to grasp the concept that YOU have nothing to do with your salvation. You didn't earn it - You can't buy it - and you certainly can't get it by listening only to acappella music, taking communion every sunday, and making sure the top of the head actually got submerged. I invite you to come visit.
Go ahead and depart from the Bible ways. Just do whatever you want to do.
It doesn't bother me to be called a "legalist." I would much rather be accused of following God's Word on judgement day than to have the Rubel Shelly mindset that the Bible just needs to be skimmed over for the main ideas and the rest is up to you. I believe it is written in detail for a reason -- God intended us to follow it just like a recipe. If you want to make dressing on Thanksgiving, go ahead and add a can of turnip greens to the recipe and triple the amount of sage. Serve it to a Medieval King and see if your head doesn't go to the chopping block!!!!
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B
B

April 28th, 2005, 5:50 am #58

None of Biblical hand clapping has to do with "worship in praise to God."

<font color=red>Caphaq (h5606) saw-fak'; or saphaq (1 Kings 20:10; Job 27:23; Isa. 2:6), saw-fak'; a prim. root; to clap the hands (in token of compact, derision, grief, indignation or punishment); by impl. of satisfaction, to be enough; by impl. of excess, to vomit: - clap, smite, strike, suffice, wallow </font>
  • <font color=blue>And Balaks anger was kindled against Balaam, and he smote his hands together: and Balak said unto Balaam, I called thee to curse mine enemies, and, behold, thou hast altogether blessed them these three times. Nu.24:10

    Men shall clap their hands at him, and shall hiss him out of his place. Jb.27:23
    • For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God. Jb.34:37
    Therefore thou hast forsaken thy people the house of Jacob, because they be replenished from the east, and are soothsayers like the Philistines, and they please themselves in the children of strangers. Is.2:6
    • Make ye him drunken; for he magnified himself against the Lord: Moab also shall wallow in his vomit, and he also shall be in derision. Je.48:26
    All that pass by clap their hands at thee; they hiss and wag their head at the daughter of Jerusalem, saying, Is this the city that men call The perfection of beauty, The joy of the whole earth? Lam.2:15
    • And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Re.11:8
    </font>
Connected to Rising Up To Play in Musical Idolatry:
  • <font color=blue>And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play. Ex.32:6
    • Cachaq (h6711) tsaw-khak'; a prim. root; to laugh outright (in merriment or scorn); by impl. to sport: - laugh, mock, play, make sport.
    And it came to pass, when their hearts were merry, that they said, Call for Samson, that he may make us sport (h7832) . And they called for Samson out of the prison house; and he made them sport (h6711) : and they set him between the pillars. Jud.16:25
    • Sachaq (h7832) saw-khak'; a prim. root; to laugh (in pleasure or detraction); by impl. to play: - deride, have in derision, laugh, make merry, mock (-er), play, rejoice, (laugh to) scorn, be in (make) sport.
    And David and all the house of Israel played (h7832) before the Lord on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals. 2S.6:5
    • Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 1 Co.10:7
    </font>
This is certainly not talking about praise or worship nor in the context of music. You will notice that David stripped off with the following girls and claimed that he was honored in their eyes and he would make himself even more vile. His praise meant to make a fool of himself with the girls.

100% Image: judge yourself.
Jesus CAST OUT the musical minstrels (always men or perverted males) as one FLINGS OUT DUNG. Just as Lucifer (Zoe) was CAST AS PROFANE OUT OF HEAVEN with a word meaning to "play the flute, steal other's inheritance, pollute or prostitute."

Worship means to GIVE HEED TO. All theatrical performers say WATCH ME and if female you are violating Paul's direct command against exercising AUTHORITY which is AUTHENTIA which is erotic and murderous. SILENT in church also means SEDENTARY or you INTEND to display yourself. It is self-evident.

That is why you DRIVE OUT the spiritually mature INTENTIONALLY.
You can't deny the OT passages when it comes to instrumental music but use them for your hand-clapping arguments.

I'm a firm believer in a capella singing, but I think your connection of everything to Lucifer, Zoe and something sexual is nonsensical.
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

April 28th, 2005, 4:20 pm #59

There is just one way: the same OLD TESTAMENT use of music is condemned for the same reason that HAND CLAPPING was condemned: both are MARKS of people who HISS and BOO God's word off the state.

There is NO connection between MUSIC and WORSHIP which has ALWAYS been in the human mind or spirit. Literally it means to fall on your face. The people's congregation was PUT OUT of the precincts which were SACRED to the temple state when the LOUD music was to SIGNAL them to fall on their face even outside the gates. The music was also called SERVICE which means HARD BONDAGE. They served the PRIESTS and not God. They made a great crashing noise--not music--to help the priests survive the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent LAMBS which were substitutes for GOD.

The church in the wilderness or Qahal or synagogue was the ONLY assembly of the people. The purpose was for INSTRUCTION. Therefore, God OUTLAWED the triumph over which was playing intruments and making a joyful noise before the Lord. This was NOT worship but the warrior's BATTLE CRY as seen in ALL of the instrumental psalms.

Hand clapping was a sign of DERISION because it MOCKED the looser rather than applauded the winner. That message continued into the Greek language. That has NEVER changed and neither has the MEANING of music as a MARK of a polluted religionism repudiating worship in the NEW PLACE of the human spirit.

I can use the Old Testament to INFORM me as to why Jesus "cast out the musical minstrels" more or less violently as one EJECTS DUNG. I can use ANIMAL SACRIFICES to prove just why Jesus ejected the musical minstrels. I can use the king/queen of Tyre as a model of LUCIFER the "singing and harp playing prostitute" who wholly seduced Eve. I can hear Paul call that a SEXUAL seduction and she did not EAT an apple from the MIDST of the Assyrian as the TALLEST TREE in Eden. I can read that CAIN means a MUSICAL NOTE and hear the New Testament say that "Cain was OF that evil one."

Get the point: the Old Testament is CHAPTER ONE which defines the FAILURE always MARKED by musical seduction as FOR MY LEARNING so that I don't RISE UP TO PLAY (1 Cor 10) where Paul points to MUSICAL IDOLATRY at Mount Sinai.

I can read Psalm 41 and hear God prophesy that JUDAS would try to DEFEAT Jesus with the same ALARM or TRIUMPH OVER which God OUTLAWED for the synagogue. This was so profound an instruction that the synagogue existed from the wilderness onward and NEVER sunk to singing or playing instruments when they were LISTENING to the words of a Holy God. That changed in 1815 by a liberal German Rabbi who sowed discord BEFORE it happened by the SECTARIAN and LEGALISTIC Stoneites.

Being marginally as smart as an earthworm, these EXAMPLES help me not make the SAME mistake. Applause STILL brings shame on all of those in second and third place. Even those who cannot peddle songs or sermons are APPLAUDED in heaven when we are baptized INTO Christ.

Ken
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Anonymous
Anonymous

April 30th, 2005, 1:05 am #60

I am so confused as to how you know when to refer to what is written in the old testament and when it is not applicable. It is to confusing and I do not believe that God is a God of confusion. The Devil is the master behind confusion. I throw my hands up as I am not a Bible scholar and most Christians I know are not bible scholars. I Believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and that there is a higher power who ultimately is the final judge and knows where my heart is, also the forgivenses of my sins thru the blood of Christ and knowing that God loves me and meets me where I am about sums it up for me. You are taking way to much out of context and adding your own interpritation where it suits your cause. Unless you have sat face to face whith God and He has told you all of this I think you are a fraud and giving christianity a bad wrap. But you will in the end meet your maker and have to explain your design. I am so glad I m not in your shoes.
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