Simon
Simon

January 5th, 2004, 5:43 pm #31

Dear HELP,

I am sorry that you are having trouble GIVING HEED to the words. However, this is a symptom. From the garden of Eden to the end-time Babylonian worship, SELF-DIRECTING is the result of hungering and thirsting for the WORD and not able to find it (Amos 5, 6, 8; Isaiah 5) because the "Shepherds" refuse to FEED you.

This is not about YOU in the least. Let me tell you as a long time student with a problem I have found some answers. My problem was trying to reconciling my honest research of the Bible which has NOTHING good to say about "music" even if lost souls did. And, indeed, all of the musical terms and names of instruments in a "religious sense" began with Lucifer (Zoe) the superior to Jesus the Word who caused the fall of the angels. He/She appeared in the garden of Eden with wind, string and percussion instruments to WHOLLY SEDUCE Eve and ends with Revelation 18 warning about the end-time APOSTATE CHURCH which depends on "rhetoricians, sOPHISst (serpents), singers and musicians. All identified as part of the HYPOCRITE sect, all called SORCERERS and all PARASITES.

On the other hand, false teachers quite naturally see God 110% commanding music and instruments and identify those who OPPOSE them as SATANIC. This naturally produces a CONFLICT or as you might say DISCORD and we wonder how the "church" can exist as "christian" and still tell God that HE is a Liar. Well, in fact it cannot. The REMNANT is always tiny and will have to COME OUT of most end-time churches who actually HIRE PROFESSIONAL MUSICIANS to attract the WORLD'S MAJORITY who have sold themselves to Satan or Lucifer called the "singing and harp-playing prostitute" in the Garden of Eden.

To make the SOWING OF DISCORD impossible, Jesus built a SYNAGOGUE which is a school of the Bible. Thereafter, anything which SOWS DISCORD and does not contribute to the EDIFICATION or EDUCATION of the Disciples or Students is to MARK those who are Anti-Biblical and therefore Anti-Christian because the Lucifer Principle is to claim the godhead (as did Zoe) and her countertypes in Babylon and in later Gnosticism.

Now the Holy Spirit is the Mind of Christ (1 Cor 2). Jesus, in turn said MY WORDS are SPIRIT and LIFE. As the Spirit OF Truth, the Word is the only resource for the SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE. In the meantime, the Spirit of Christ was careful to call the Old Testament effort at self-redemption NOISE or SOUND. It does not teach.

Rather than being the SAFE HARBOR for professional SOWING OF DISCORD, the SYNAGOGUE solves the diversity which existed in Rome among once MUSICL WORSHIPERS associated with EATING MEAT or NOT eating meat.

For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink;
but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. Rom 14:17

For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men. Rom 14:18

Let us therefore follow after the things which make for PEACE, and things wherewith one may EDIFY ANOTHER. Rom 14:19

In the assembly or SYNAGOGUE Paul showed how DIVERSE backgrounds can ASSEMBLE as STUDENTS or DISCIPLES where they could NEVER agree on a RELIGIOUS RITUAL or PAGAN system.

Then try to see in Romans 15 that GOD IN CHRIST did not PLEASE Himself. That means to EXCITE THE SENSES. We are commanded to not PLEASE ourself in the sensuous way but please everyone with JUST WHAT EDIFIES and no more.

Paul said that the METHOD is to use ONE MIND and one MOUTH. The goal was to GLORIFY God and not the "Theatrical Performers" who have a bad name in the Bible and in ALL of history. The RESOURCE was to be "That which is written." That, of course meant "Psalms, Hymns and Spiritual songs" which are ALL the inspired Biblical text.

When you make the HARD WIRED CONNECT in children's minds between "the works of human hands" or "the idolatry of talent" and the SPIRIT worship of a Holy or WHOLLY Spirit God, you have done something SPIRITUALLY DESTRUCTIVE to them. If the authorities had SPIRITUAL INSIGHT they would lock you up.

If I let you DIVERT me from what the BIBLE says in contrast to what the PROFESSIONAL THEATER people say then we would not be able to be DISIPLES and SYNAGOGUE with God in the human SPIRIT. Here is one take which connects slightly with the PROPHECY that the Judas types would MOCK Jesus musicially even on the cross:

http://www.piney.com/HohenwaldSW.html

The Judas Bag is PICTURED and DEFINED in graphic detail in hundreds of PORTRAITS on ancient pottery. The Judas Bag was for "carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments." It was ALWAYS attached to a flute case and means "Speaking in tongues" and "of the world." Jesus SPOOKED Judas by the SOP which has the same meaning as MELODY. Judas was prophesied to try to TRIUMPH OVER Jesus in a musical sense.

http://www.piney.com/DSSPsa41.html

I am still working on the following one but if you want to read the message Jesus pointed to when He said,'My God why hast..." you need to DISCIPLE yourself to Psalm 22 and shame, shame, shame on shepherd who muddy the water and fail to help you be DISCIPLES because DISCIPLES are Christians and stirring up the flesh is NEVER done by Christians to disciples. Never.

Still working on this one.

Ken: if you didn't intend to let Jesus REMIT your sins at baptism SO THAT you could become HIS Disciple then you may want to think about your baptism.
Dear brothers and sisters (those that are scripturally submissive that is!),

Heed the good word Ken is blessing us with. Lucifer (Zoe) goes around like a roaring lion seeking who he may devour (he may devour - alto). He is right as rain about the false teachers that continue to pervert the industrial carpeted aisles of God's churches (at least those without red carpet that symbolizes the Roman,pagan orgies that would take place between Badeomition tournements - which we now know as present day badminton).

I have seen first hand with my own eyes, even though I am a double amputee and have glaucoma, the wicked ways of Otter Creek and their minister John York. They present non-sbumissive women on stage, some dressed in red (remember red=pagan=orgy=badminton!)

I. Women should NEVER

1. Speak aloud in church.
IVI. Talk alound in church.
C. Hit the babies with the songbooks.

Ken is also right in his response to "Sacred Cow Dung"
We can NEVER hear the truth enough. Repetition is essential to guard against Lucifer (Zoe).

Ken is also right in his response to "Sacred Cow Dung".
We can NEVER hear the truth enough. Repetition is essential to guard against Lucifer (Zoe).

The Babaloyians did pervert the truth through the derivitive of Zoe which also corresponds to the Samarian "Zoeingo"... and trust me Bingo was NOT his name O!

"Help" follow my word, as well as Ken's, and flee the evil of Otter Creek, their "Zoe Ho's" and Lucifer's badminton playing, cabana boy John York before you are lost FOREVER!

Have a blessed day,

Simon

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Duane
Duane

January 6th, 2004, 5:28 am #32

Mr. Ken,


My point is not to minimize baptism at all. I am a Bible believing baptized member of Christ's body. I cherish my baptism and continually look back to that day that I was baptized. However, I was never taught that my baptism saved me. Now I know all of the verses that automatically pop up in your mind about baptism saving people. You know that the majority of the Christian world disagrees with this and historically, this has been the case as well.

My point is that when your focus is on baptism and NOT the Cross of Christ, something has been missed. I am not saying that you do not love the Cross of Christ, it just seems as if you are saying that there were two acts that saved you: Christ's death and your baptism.

If this is the case, then we do have a serious problem.
Slight problem with your statement: "majority of the Christian world diagrees" with baptism saving you.
If you try to remember what the Bible says about Jesus. Most of the world in his time refuted him, but yet he was still right.
Also if you say baptism is not essential to your salvation then Jesus is a Lier.
I cannot and will not believe that of Jesus.

Duane
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An Otter Creek Member
An Otter Creek Member

January 15th, 2004, 7:36 pm #33

I'm really looking for some good hard information about what goes on there.
Do you REALLY want to know what we do during worship services? Here it goes:

I personally attend the first set of classes where I meet regularly with many, many other God-fearing Christian men and women--my brothers and sisters in Christ. We pray together and then we sit under the instruction of some of the most humble and knowledgable Christians alive today.

During the service, we fellowship with one another. We have the most amazing a capella worship time I have ever been involved with. We have an amazing pastor who not only preaches the Word, but he lives it. And our elders.....the most caring, loving, prayerful men of God that I know. They want nothing more than to serve God in all that they do. And it is visible in that our church follows their leadership whole-heartedly.

I have never met such an amazing group of Christians than those that attend Otter Creek. We are all sinners, and we will tell you that, but that doesn't make us any different than any of you, does it?

And one more thing--it is obvious (note Sacred Cow's post) that instruments were used in the Old Testament. And instruments will be used in Heaven (see Revelations and other passages)....so, if we serve an unchanging God, why would it be a "sin" to use instruments now???? That just baffles me. And we all should know that the use of a capella music did not become "holy" and instrumental music "sinful" until the Civil War era when churches in the North were criticized for their use of pianos while churches in the South hardly even had a place to meet. Seems to me as if the sin committed here is not instrumental music, but brothers and sisters not reaching out to those in need. Now this hardly seems like a Scripturally ordained reason to knock off instrumental music.....
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Sacred Cow
Sacred Cow

January 23rd, 2004, 9:21 pm #34

"My mom said that I work so hard to complete every task because I was basically lazy. But, praise the Lord, I don't pay for no MUSICAL MEDIATORS to replace Jesus Christ NO MO, NO MO. That lets me sleep like a baby when I have rushed through the cities and dusted my feet and received my WAGE of being despised by the TRAFFICKERS."

Now I'm beginning to see where your issues originated from.

Like you're rushing through cities dusting your feet. You're lazy remember and retired. So why rush anywhere?

Cry me a river KEN. You're no martyr.
"I just naturally get TENSE (past, perfect, future) when banditos break in and steal. I remember returning from church in Seattle one Wednesday night and recognizing that I had been burgled, got that tense feeling people describe as being RAPED. When the loving christians stole the church house of widows after I left I got that same FEELING of being raped. Seems the preacher, musicians and mother hen came to Jubilee and the Zoe group and learned how to GRADUALLY lie, cheat and steal to BURGLE a whole church: one of the FIVE out of 13,000 the ZOE or Lucifer group has been able to subvert."

The question is this: When will look at yourself in mirror and ask yourself whether or not you've crossed the line?

RAPED? How dare you even use such an analogy. I can't believe women anywhere who have read this material wouldn't let into you! Your "physical house" got broken into and you have the audacity, the boldness, to compare that temporary inconvenience with such an act as RAPE?

YOU CAN NOW RELATE TO THE TENSION PEOPLE FEEL AFTER BEING RAPED?

HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND?

That's what I'm talking about Ken you write these things that are so completely tactless and inconsiderate (or just plain thoughtless).

HOW DARE YOU COMBINE DISCUSSION OVER YOUR DISLIKES WITH CHURCH - AND SOME HOW RELATE YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH A THEIF IN YOUR HOME TO THE FEELINGS A RAPE VICTOM HAS - HAVE YOU NO SHAME?

THEN YOU MENTION THE RELATIONSHIP OF GOOD CHRISTIAN PEOPLE WHO WORSHIP DIFFERENTLY THAN YOU DO (WHERE EVER IT IS THAT YOU DO WORSHIP) TO THE LIKES OF LUCIFER AND SOME HOW IN THE SAME PARAGRAPH SUGGEST THAT THEY HAVE RAPED AND BURGLERIZED THE CHURCH!

YOU HAVE SEVERE PROBLEMS KEN SUBLETT AND VERY WARPED MIND. YOU'RE SICK.

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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

January 24th, 2004, 8:53 pm #35

The NEW STYLE WORSHIP PROMOTERS speak of ENTHUSIASM which means Enthus O mania or the madness of the sexual people who make you believe that they are bringing you into the presence of God.

Others suggest ENRAPTURING the spirit with song and sermon. Look closely and you will find that this means:

Enrapture \En*rap"ture\ (?; 135), v. t. [imp. & p. p. {Enraptured} (?; 135); p. pr. & vb. n. {Enrapturing}.] To transport with pleasure; to delight beyond measure; to ENRAVISH. --Shenstone.

"sat completely still, enraptured by the music"

Rape \Rape\, v. t. To commit rape upon; to ravish.

2: destroy and strip of its possession; "The soldiers raped the beautiful country" [syn: {despoil}, {violate}, {plunder}]

The VINEYARD mother of the NEW STYLE WORSHIP seeks to engage you in a SEXUAL-CLIMATIC "act of worship" with God.

http://www.piney.com/RmHymns.html

"There is no exception" to the rule that MUSICAL "WORSHIP" worked because it peddled the heresy that when you rise up, sing, dance and clap you are acting as the "harem of the gods."

You just wait until I tell you about:

Thespian which has ALWAYS meant Lesbian and is the MAJOR MOVER of "musical worship and drama" in the church and "christian colleges." And just you wait till I connect Thespis with Hypocrites which define a PERFORMING preacher or PHARISEE who claims some superior connection to God or the Word.

Sure, RAPED. If you wonder why a huge exodus occured down here in my little tribal thingy you must grasp that when males begin flinging and singing a cold chill runs up the backs of people and they do one of three drug-induced things caused by MUSIC: They FIGHT, FLEE or FEEL raped and love or flee for their souls.

Watch it when the same misleaders want to take YOUR children to WINTERFEST as the SHOW AND TELL of professional artists getting everyone HIGH enough to BUY by a mass movement which DRIVES the youngsters into the same EFFEMINATE mind in which Chris't Spirit CANNOT LIVE. Sure, you can make a musical or theatrical performance career out of lying about the church of Christ and training the youth to be DELIBERATE SOWERS OF DISCORD.

The same "spirit" which rapes helpless women rapes faithful men and women of the INNOCENCE of a loving church and they KNOW when they have been HAD. "Sorcerers" or theatrical speakers and singers have their place in the lake of fire along with the rapists.

Ken
Last edited by ConcernedMembers on January 24th, 2004, 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lisa
Lisa

January 25th, 2004, 8:50 pm #36

Do you REALLY want to know what we do during worship services? Here it goes:

I personally attend the first set of classes where I meet regularly with many, many other God-fearing Christian men and women--my brothers and sisters in Christ. We pray together and then we sit under the instruction of some of the most humble and knowledgable Christians alive today.

During the service, we fellowship with one another. We have the most amazing a capella worship time I have ever been involved with. We have an amazing pastor who not only preaches the Word, but he lives it. And our elders.....the most caring, loving, prayerful men of God that I know. They want nothing more than to serve God in all that they do. And it is visible in that our church follows their leadership whole-heartedly.

I have never met such an amazing group of Christians than those that attend Otter Creek. We are all sinners, and we will tell you that, but that doesn't make us any different than any of you, does it?

And one more thing--it is obvious (note Sacred Cow's post) that instruments were used in the Old Testament. And instruments will be used in Heaven (see Revelations and other passages)....so, if we serve an unchanging God, why would it be a "sin" to use instruments now???? That just baffles me. And we all should know that the use of a capella music did not become "holy" and instrumental music "sinful" until the Civil War era when churches in the North were criticized for their use of pianos while churches in the South hardly even had a place to meet. Seems to me as if the sin committed here is not instrumental music, but brothers and sisters not reaching out to those in need. Now this hardly seems like a Scripturally ordained reason to knock off instrumental music.....
I have read every post on this site, and I have to say I have no idea what is happening at Otter Creek. (if anything)You have all been so concerned with who gets the last word, that you have gotten completely off the topic. Let's all act like real brothers and sisters of Christ and stop all this bickering. We have a loving and caring God who wants us to worship him with all our mind, soul and strength. If that happens to include instruments for some of us then I don't believe God will condem us for using them. Just as he will not condem us if we do not use instruments. He wants our hearts.
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Mike
Mike

January 26th, 2004, 5:46 am #37

Everyone makes assumptions on things they've heard. I've only read one person who actually knows what's going on at Otter Creek and everything else is pure speculation or judgement. Or Gossip (Romans 1:29; 2 Corinthians 12:20).

John, if you really want to know what goes on there, call the church or go visit yourself. Anything else just encourages specualtion withoout facts.
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

January 26th, 2004, 5:34 pm #38

Ken, Ken, Ken.
I do adore you so. It's intersting that you feel like you have been ordained to inform the past generations and generations to come of the evil that lerks around our church corners.


"So, I have to go on and on. Just say ZOE (Lucifer) and you define Otter Creek, Shelly, York, etal. Nuff sed?

There ARE new readers and OLD infidels so I have to repeat for each generation. Why do you singy-clappers say Lord lord (Hallelujah) 20 times?"

You see Ken, the problem is this. Well one of the problems that is, I know, and adore many friends who worship at the Creek. I'm sorry, but when I say or hear ZOE, I don't define them as Lucifer. Nuff sed? Of course not. You know it's not. You're a coward. With an intense blend of arrogance and ingnorance.

Are you so bold to know the hearts of so many that you have never met or worshipped with? Do you know my heart. I know, you're thinking I'm a coward too for describing myself as a sacred cow, and you're right, I fear if I were to reveal myself that it would only hurt our loving relationship.

Singy-Clappers. Right? Is that your lightening bolt to strike at my heart? Why do "we" say Lord, Lord 20 times? Shall I answer you. Here's just a few reasons to mention the Lord over and over again in a song of praise - if you hold the Old Testament as valid - you'll find ample evidence below.

Psalm 7:17
I will give thanks to the LORD because of his righteousness and will sing praise to the name of the LORD Most High. (He's always righteous - right?)

Psalm 9:1
I will praise you, O LORD , with all my heart; I will tell of all your wonders. (I can speak of his wonders without pausing - right?)

Psalm 9:2
I will be glad and rejoice in you; I will sing praise to your name, O Most High. (I'm glad, so I should rejoice)

Psalm 9:11
Sing praises to the LORD , enthroned in Zion; proclaim among the nations what he has done. (Proclaim to all nations what he has done? That could take a long time)

Psalm 21:13
Be exalted, O LORD , in your strength; we will sing and praise your might. (He is mighty)

Psalm 26:7
proclaiming aloud your praise and telling of all your wonderful deeds. (His wonderful deeds don't stop)

Psalm 30:4
Sing to the LORD , you saints of his; praise his holy name. (Does he have a holy name - yep he does)

Psalm 33:1
Sing joyfully to the LORD , you righteous; it is fitting for the upright to praise him. (Are you upright?)

Psalm 33:2
Praise the LORD with the harp; make music to him on the ten-stringed lyre. (Mooops, I bet this verse makes you sick to your tummy)

Psalm 35:28
My tongue will speak of your righteousness and of your praises all day long. (All day long? That's a lot)

Psalm 43:4
Then will I go to the altar of God, to God, my joy and my delight. I will praise you with the harp, O God, my God. (Mooops, I did it again)

Psalm 44:8
In God we make our boast all day long, and we will praise your name forever. Selah (All day long again?)

Psalm 45:17
I will perpetuate your memory through all generations; therefore the nations will praise you for ever and ever. (There are your generations and mine)

Psalm 47:6
Sing praises to God, sing praises; sing praises to our King, sing praises. (Sing praises - that's a good song)

Psalm 52:9
I will praise you forever for what you have done; in your name I will hope, for your name is good. I will praise you in the presence of your saints. (I will praise you forever? WOW!)

Psalm 61:8
Then will I ever sing praise to your name and fulfill my vows day after day. (Day after day? - see a pattern yet?)

Psalm 71:8
My mouth is filled with your praise, declaring your splendor all day long. (All day?)

Psalm 78:4
We will not hide them from their children; we will tell the next generation the praiseworthy deeds of the LORD , his power, and the wonders he has done. (And those generations again!)

This is just a few as you know. I'm sure you won't post this though.

Sounds to me like saying Lord Lord, 20 times doesn't cut it. All day long, forever, praising your name, epsecially to generations to come so that they'll remember his works and deeds, his power and wonders! Sounds to me like I have more than enough to be thankful for, day in and day out, in fact enough to last me a lifetime. Again, is 20 times enough, I doubt it. It's sad that you would be threatened by such praise.

You see this redundant material is requested and expected.

Your redundant material - it's a bit different to say the least.

You do remember Daivd don't you. A man after God's own heart. He made some mistakes. But he praised the Lord to the end of his days. In fact recorded most of what you read above.

Ken, you should try saying Lord Lord more than 20 times a day, it just might change your life. - But then again you'd have to start another web site and then all your "web friends" might be mad at you - right?

Just curious, are you mad because you hear us singy-clappers, repeat praises over and over again. What else should I be doing? How else should I be singing and praises the Lord. Please include instructions for me to praise - I and a few others must have missed something.

Sacred Praising Cow
Wishing you a Moooooey Christmas - Do you celebrate Christmas?

Moderator - Please approve my moooosage.

Now I am sure that you are a preacher: you know, moolah.

n : informal terms for money [syn: shekels, gelt, dough, bread, dinero, lucre, loot, pelf, cabbage, kale]

Mollah \Mol"lah\, n. [Ar. maul[=a], commonly moll[=a]in Turkey.] One of the higher order of Turkish judges; also, a Turkish title of respect for a religious and learned man. [Written also moolah.]

I have picked out Psalm 78 although I could have picked Psalm 106 or Acts 7 which tell the same story. See how Rubel Shelly takes the condemnation and turns it into praise:

http://www.piney.com/WinRSPraise2.html

See also the Exodus as a pattern for worship and community (commune):

http://www.piney.com/WinRSExComm.html

See how Augustine and all lovers of the Bible saw Psalm 106:

http://www.piney.com/FathAugPsa106.html

Now, look at Psalm 78. This is my quick morning exercise just to let you see the whole psalm as THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST gave it to you to warn about musical worship:

http://www.piney.com/Psalm78.html

Remember that Psalms are divided into five books corresponding to the Torah and more. This is a POETIC version of the PROSE HISTORY. We know that the Jews began RECITING (not music) the PROSE history but later began to use the poetic version: poems tend to be poetic so watch out. The purpose was never ritual worship but to TEACH and ADMONISH. Only the Word as it has been delivered conveys the Spirit or Mind of Christ. When you read it it becomes the ORACLE OF GOD. "Talent" is useable ONLY in ministry or service or slavery on behalf of the destitute.

You will also remember that Jesus refused to speak to the Jerusalem "jews" who were infected by the Kenites or Cainites. He said that God had hidden truth by the use of parables FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. That might give the Flat Earth Ministry pause. Now, Asaph says:

I will open my mouth in a PARABLE: I will utter dark sayings of old: Psalm 78:2

Parable does not mean MYTH but a mystery language which can only be grasped in the DARK and SILENT human spirit as it communes with God who IS all or "holy" spirit and WILL NOT DANCE with Jeff Walling and the Thespians who have taken over the temples.

Mashal (h4912) maw-shawl'; appar. from 4910 in some orig. sense of superiority in mental action; prop. a pithy maxim, usually of a metaphorical nature; hence a simile (as an adage, poem, discourse): - byword, like, parable, proverb.

Chiydah (h2420) khee-daw'; from 2330; a puzzle; hence a trick, conundrum, sententious maxim: - dark saying (sentence, speech), hard question, proverb, riddle.

Now, YOU have been suckered by the CONUNDRUM but those OF THE SPIRIT can instantly discern that Asaph was not COMMANDING a ritualistic PRAISE SERVICE. You were SUPPOSED to grasp that the nation of Israel forfeited the grace of God by MUSICAL IDOLATRY at Mount Sinai and for their whole lives. When people want to get your BODY to "worship" they HAVE NOT offered their body on the "altar" to be consumed so that they MAY worship God which happens ONLY in the new PLACE of the human spirit.

A holy spiritis OUR spirit MADE HOLY only at baptism where we REQUEST A clear conscience or consiousness so that we can understand the deep, spiritual mysteries.

CHURCH of our times INTENDS to keep the truth of the whole Bible from their children because the "Devil made them do it." Here are some clues:

Which we have HEARD and KNOWN, and our fathers have TOLD us. Psalm 78:3

We will NOT hide them from their children,
shewing to the generation to come the praises of the Lord, [Gag! please don't see this as a Thespian worship ritual.]

and his strength,

and his wonderful works that he HATH DONE. Psalm 78:4

PRAISE is NOT singing erotic "songs" telling others about MY WONDERFUL experiences with God: Praise of Billy Bob Bumpkin says: "BBB makes the best hamburger in town."

For he ESTABLISHED a TESTIMONY in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he COMMANDED our fathers,
that they should MAKE THEM KNOWN to their children: Psalm 78:5

"That the generation to come MIGHT KNOW them,
even the children which should be born; who should arise and DECLARE them to their children: Psalm 78:6

If ANY of the BEAST (Zoe) churches had ever even read Psalm 78 and 106 and the account of the Mount Sinai event they WOULD NOT preach it as a PATTERN FOR CHRISTIAN WORSHIP AND COMMUNITY.

God is still HIDING truth by His permissive will in allowing the THESPIANS to do everything in their little pointy heads to KEEP you from ever hearing the story of the Old Testament. I say that you STILL cannot grasp that MUSIC or ritualistic PRAISE SINGING is one of the oldest, pagan, superstitions. In ALL of history the theatrical performers actually want you to believe that they can ASSIST God to keep failure away.

Rubel Shelly and Randy Harris promote the AZTEC PATTERNISM where the 52 year and 52 week JUBILEE prevented the failure of the Gods. Just like Purpose Driven the Aztec slippd in, planted a corn crop, so that when JUBILEE TIME came they could return and do a HOLOCAUST on the OWNERS. So what, they were willing to sacrifice up to 20,000 people during JUBILEE in order to CERTIFY themselves as the GOD SAVERS.

http://www.piney.com/WinAztec.html

Psalms, Hymns and Spiritual songs are NOT the produce of Zoe: they are a record to be TAUGHT to our children. That is why Paul said SPEAK to ONE ANOTHER. The purpose is to TEACH AND ADMONISH one another. History knows that all three forms are THE INSPIRED history frequently written in a poetic form to make LEARNING THE TEXT easier. If YOU could write your POETIC version then YOU could write your PROSE version and that is exactly what Rubel Shelly, Max Lucado etal CLAIM for themselves.

http://www.piney.com/Shelly-York-Narrative.html

Ask your preacher to explain the sequence: The Book of The Covenant, Rising up to PLAY in musical idolatry and The Book of The Law.

Ken Sublett
Last edited by ConcernedMembers on January 26th, 2004, 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Patsy
Patsy

January 28th, 2004, 3:57 pm #39

Do you REALLY want to know what we do during worship services? Here it goes:

I personally attend the first set of classes where I meet regularly with many, many other God-fearing Christian men and women--my brothers and sisters in Christ. We pray together and then we sit under the instruction of some of the most humble and knowledgable Christians alive today.

During the service, we fellowship with one another. We have the most amazing a capella worship time I have ever been involved with. We have an amazing pastor who not only preaches the Word, but he lives it. And our elders.....the most caring, loving, prayerful men of God that I know. They want nothing more than to serve God in all that they do. And it is visible in that our church follows their leadership whole-heartedly.

I have never met such an amazing group of Christians than those that attend Otter Creek. We are all sinners, and we will tell you that, but that doesn't make us any different than any of you, does it?

And one more thing--it is obvious (note Sacred Cow's post) that instruments were used in the Old Testament. And instruments will be used in Heaven (see Revelations and other passages)....so, if we serve an unchanging God, why would it be a "sin" to use instruments now???? That just baffles me. And we all should know that the use of a capella music did not become "holy" and instrumental music "sinful" until the Civil War era when churches in the North were criticized for their use of pianos while churches in the South hardly even had a place to meet. Seems to me as if the sin committed here is not instrumental music, but brothers and sisters not reaching out to those in need. Now this hardly seems like a Scripturally ordained reason to knock off instrumental music.....
We do not go back to the Old Testament for our use of instruments in the Lord's Church. Christ died for our sins, therefore a New Testament came into effect after his death, same as a will does today. We are not in heaven if we are writing on this web site. The New Testament does not tell us to use an instrument in our worship to him. Therefore, we don't. As for an amazing group of "Christians", God fearing "Christians" at Otter Creek, you can be good, amazing, and sincere, but be sincerely wrong. Some may say, how silly to not be able to add what you wish to the worship. Just remember, the foolishness of God is wiser than man. The Lord has also said the way to eternal damnation is the broad way. Be careful, you that are broadminded. Remember what God said he would say to them in the last day, Depart from me I never knew you, you workers of iniquity. They are sincere, but sincerely wrong. Also, about doing something that is not commanded in the New Testament, remember our example of Nadab and Abihu in the Old Testament.
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

January 28th, 2004, 7:11 pm #40

You know of course that AMONG THE SCHOLARS they love to MOCK anyone who speaks of Nadab and Abihu because they are MOCKERS firstly but because they are ignorant because repudiating the Bible used by faithful disciples causes God to blind their eyes, plug their ears and send them strong delusions.

Amazingly, God does this to people who know the Word and then repudiate it again and fall from Grace and cannot be renewed to repentance (Heb. 6).

Paul's warning apply to the FALLS FROM GRACE when People repudiated God by repudiating His Word. God is Spirit and therefore can only be worshipped in OUR SPIRIT when we obey what He wants as worship.

After the Israelites ROSE UP TO PLAY in Musical Idolatry, the Sacrificial system was commanded because they rejected God's GRACE. Nadab and Abihu burned INCENSE on strange (foreign) fire. God had not commanded either incense or the Scape Goat. Moses and Aaron had performed the rituals COMMANDED by God and God did not say: "thou shalt not burn incense to me."

http://www.piney.com/Nadab-Abihu.html

While the MOCKERS Mock--that is what they do as a profession--it is a fact that God CONSUMED them with fire at Mount Sinai and in the Nadab and Abihu ADDING what God had not commanded. The INCENSE altar was added and the people could not approach God. The scapegoat was a SACRIFICED GOAT to Azazel or Satan because they minds demanded something to APPEASE Satan who is always the ROOT of disobedience. Those who worship the GOAT will not be accepted by God in Christ.

Paul spoke of this and other FALLS in Romans 1 which shows that ignoring the WORD automatically turns even believers back to the rituals which lead to perversion.

In Hebrews Paul warned:

"For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that BURNED WITH FIRE, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, Heb 12:18

And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: Heb 12:19

(For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: Heb 12:20

And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:) Heb 12:21

The EARTHLY Jerusalem is identified with SLAVERY and SODOM. The clergy were not true Israelites although they could say that they were children of Abraham. Jesus identifed them with Hagar, slavery, Mount Sinai, the Jerusalem as David's HIGH PLACE. The leaders in this Jebusite High Place were Cainites or Kenites or Canaanites. Cain means A MUSICAL NOTE and it is the MARK of those who use music and CRAFTSMENSHIP to SEDUCE AND ENSLAVE those for whom Jesus Died. We have our spirit made holy so that we can boldly enter the throne room WITHOUT musicians or singers who would be EXECUTED if they dared enter the EARTHLY JERUSALEM type of the church or body of Christ.

BUT ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, Heb 12:22

PLEASE READ THE IN BETWEEN

"And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the REMOVING of those things that are SHAKEN [waver, agitate, rock, topple, incite], as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Heb 12:27

...Salpigc (g4536) sal'-pinx; perh. from 4535 (through the idea of quavering or reverberation): a trumpet: - trump (- et).

"Wherefore we receiving a KINGDOM which cannot be moved, let us have grace,whereby we may serve God acceptably with REVERENCE and godly FEAR: Heb 12:28

For our God is a consuming fire. Heb 12:29

EXULTING in A capella music has the meaning of the Pope's CASTRATOS. When we come into the presence of God and do not have REVERENCE or downcast eyes we have been TRANSPORTED into the real of God as a CONSUMING FIRE where GRACE demands that He punish those who treated Him like a prostitute which is the ONLY meaning of music.

This PATTERN is being repeated now as the MUSICAL or THESPIAN performers all focus on Old Testament rituals which were added BECAUSE OF TRANSGRESSION by musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. After which God TURNED THEM OVER to worship the starry host including Saturn = 666.

Having repudiated the WORDS of Christ and the apostles they have been TRANSPORTED back before the Cross and there is no grace or redemption to them.

Those who COME TO THE SOUND of the Trumpet or a human imitation of MUSICA intend to HURT people to create a DRUG HIGH because they have NO WORD OF GOD to give people. In that, they fulfill the TYPE in the Book of Enoch (quoted by Jude) to MASK THEIR FEAR because God has cut off "messanging" as the Word and they are ACTING OUT polluting God because, in these old documents, MISERY DEMANDS COMFORT.

musica , ae, and mu-si(ce- , e-s, f., = mousikê, the art of music, music; acc. to the notions of the ancients, also every higher kind of ARTIST or scientific CULTURE or pursuit

Similar definitions:

exe-ge-tice , es, f., = exêgêtikê, the art of interpretation, exegesis, (outlawed by Peter as PRIVATE INTERPRETATION)

magice-, e-s, f., = magikê (sc. technê), the MAGIC ART, magic, SORCERY

The PHARISEES believed that they held a SPIRITUALLY SUPERIOR POSITION. They were the performance preachers, prayers, song writers as SCRIBES and ACTORS as HYPOCRITES. However, John warned:

"For without are dogs [male prostitutes], and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Re.22:15

ANY concept of the THESPIAN art points directly to DRAMA because "drama works because we KNOW that it isn't true." Any performance is ONCE or TWICE removed from the truth: especially musicians. The Thespians and Lesbians or "Lesbo singers" have much the same meaning.

The CHILDREN or "chorus leaders" piped hoping to get Jesus and His disciples to SING and DANCE the perverted ritual of DIONYSUS.

And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman (TECHNE), of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; Rev 18:22

GRINDERS was a code word for concubines or PROSTITUTES. When they forced Samson to GRIND in the king's house, he was not grinding cornmeal.

mageia, hê, theology of the Magians, m. hê Zôroastrou

Dare any GREEK SCHOLAR refute it? Yet, they are SO SILENT as OCU 2004 combines ART AS WORSHIP and the INTERNATIONAL CHURCH OF CHRIST. This means THE BOSTON MOVEMENT OR CROSSROADS or SHEPHERDING without which the new THESPIAN churces cannot exist. Max Lucado, Lynn Anderson and Rubel Shelly defend a form of SHEPHERDING which is the MEANING of the COMMUNITY CHURCH meaning COMMUNES. Carroll D. Osburn claims that they are training PROPHETS, CHANELLERS and FACILITATORS with advanced degrees (about 212F) to go out and facilitate the changes to the NEW STYLE churches

Ken Sublett
Last edited by ConcernedMembers on January 28th, 2004, 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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