Otter Creek-Zoe Group, Nashville,Tn.

Anon.
Anon.

December 16th, 2003, 9:43 pm #11

Mr. Ken,


My point is not to minimize baptism at all. I am a Bible believing baptized member of Christ's body. I cherish my baptism and continually look back to that day that I was baptized. However, I was never taught that my baptism saved me. Now I know all of the verses that automatically pop up in your mind about baptism saving people. You know that the majority of the Christian world disagrees with this and historically, this has been the case as well.

My point is that when your focus is on baptism and NOT the Cross of Christ, something has been missed. I am not saying that you do not love the Cross of Christ, it just seems as if you are saying that there were two acts that saved you: Christ's death and your baptism.

If this is the case, then we do have a serious problem.
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Mike Lewis
Mike Lewis

December 16th, 2003, 10:53 pm #12

Little Johnny Wesley's mother was asked by a friend:

"Why do you tell little Johnny the same thing 20 times."

Mom,answered, "Cause little Johnny couldn't GRASP it the 19th time."

So, I have to go on and on. Just say ZOE (Lucifer) and you define Otter Creek, Shelly, York, etal. Nuff sed?

There ARE new readers and OLD infidels so I have to repeat for each generation. Why do you singy-clappers say Lord lord (Hallelujah) 20 times?

Ken
One of the biggest discrepancies that is made with this site and piney.com is the use of Lucifer to refer to Satan when this is clearly a mistranslation by our friendly King James translators...here's the truth:

In Isaiah 14:12 we read the following in the KJV: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning." The teaching that "Lucifer" is a name for "Satan" comes from the KJV. The Hebrew word here actually means "bright one," or "bringer of light." The word "lucifer" is simply the Latin translation of this Hebrew word. The mistake of the KJV translators was in not translating the Latin word into English. By leaving the Latin word in their version, the implication was left in the minds of a great many readers that it was a proper name. The text actually refers to King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon, although there may well be a secondary reference to Satan. The belief, mistakenly derived from the KJV's failure to translate this Latin word into English, that "Lucifer" is a proper name of the "prince of darkness" is so wide-spread that Webster's dictionary defines "Lucifer" as being another name for the being also known as "Satan."

So in actuality all the information about lucifer is wrong on this site since that's not a proper name for Satan. Amen and amen!
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Joined: March 9th, 2002, 4:18 pm

December 17th, 2003, 2:01 pm #13

The Luciferians know the name of the "one" that they worship.

Who are we to argue?
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Anonymous
Anonymous

December 18th, 2003, 7:09 am #14

So you admit the information is false. Just because someone changed the meaning under the guise of a KJV translator...which in the future people took their false translation and turned it into a proper name.

The word Lucifer was later thought to be a proper name...long after the supposed sources on this site uses them to refer to music.

I will no longer post or read the drivel on this site. People were right...you're all nuts who need therapy.
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Joined: March 13th, 2002, 6:27 am

December 20th, 2003, 4:41 pm #15

I'm really looking for some good hard information about what goes on there.
John,

You may find these links helpful.

http://www.newleafbooks.org/BOOKS/C/church_flies.html

http://johnyork.faithsite.com/

http://ottercreek.faithsite.com/

The Otter Creek website is unavailable right now, but you might keep trying every now and then.

From their writings you might get an idea of what is going on at Otter Creek.

Kevin
Last edited by ConcernedMembers on December 20th, 2003, 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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John
John

December 22nd, 2003, 2:14 pm #16

The Faithsite one doesn't work for some reason, but www.ottercreek.org does. That has a lot of interesting information. Thanks for the other ones.
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

December 22nd, 2003, 5:48 pm #17

The grumble at lipscombunderground is that being from OTTER CREEK trumps seniority and experience in assigning student leadership roles. John O. Yorks site at:

http://johnyork.faithsite.com/

Reveals the PATTERNISM of many churches of Christ which have the inside track to LIPSCOMB. Steve Flatt was, after all, a founding father of the Jubilee and became one of the members of the latter CORPORATION. Just because they bounce some false teachers who are TOO HOT TO HANDLE does not mean that they will not USE others who are more likely to attract than repel those who claim to still be "faithful." ACU still features Max Lucado.

First, John touts the JESUS PROPOSAL which is from a series of sermons by--Who? Why, by John O. York used by Rubel Shelly, which is TRAFFICKING in the sermons preached for pay--with or without a dispensation from the elders.

John York: "How do I make sense of Jesus going back and forth, back and forth between Galilee and Jerusalem in John's account

...when he NEVER goes to Jerusalem in Matthew, Mark, and Luke until the very end of his ministry?

...But that's NOT the WITNESS, the testimony John wants me to confirm.

What I am called to affirm with the witness

..of MY OWN LIFE is that AUTHENTICATING Spirit-presence

...that REVEALS ITSELF when I keep heaven's commandments here on earth, live the from-above life in my down-below setting.

Rubel Shelly John York The Jesus Proposal: The Jesus Project:

Here is what God wants churches passionate about:

(1) "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, (2) that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16).

"Rubel Shelly John York The Jesus Proposal: Paul even uses a JEWISH LEGEND about the water actually following the people around in the desert

..to say that Christ himself was present with those people just like he is with the Corinthians. They were hemmed in on all sides by God and God-activity.

However B.S. (before shelly), Scripture continued to say:

.."And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 1Co.10:4

There is a lot more Otter Creek, Lipscomb, Woodmont Heresy here:

http://www.piney.com/RsJesusProposalI.html

There are three parts but they are all Post-Biblical, Post-modern and Post-Christendom. Everyone should grasp that you cannot MERGE WITH THE WORLD by becomming a UNIVERSITY without betraying your OLD, pre-theft owners. But, how many applauded as they saw the PREACHER FACTORIES being dragged into the woods by the very WOLVES wearing still-wet SHEEP'S SKINS?

Ken Sublett.
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Sacred Cow
Sacred Cow

December 25th, 2003, 7:39 pm #18

Little Johnny Wesley's mother was asked by a friend:

"Why do you tell little Johnny the same thing 20 times."

Mom,answered, "Cause little Johnny couldn't GRASP it the 19th time."

So, I have to go on and on. Just say ZOE (Lucifer) and you define Otter Creek, Shelly, York, etal. Nuff sed?

There ARE new readers and OLD infidels so I have to repeat for each generation. Why do you singy-clappers say Lord lord (Hallelujah) 20 times?

Ken
Ken, Ken, Ken.
I do adore you so. It's intersting that you feel like you have been ordained to inform the past generations and generations to come of the evil that lerks around our church corners.


"So, I have to go on and on. Just say ZOE (Lucifer) and you define Otter Creek, Shelly, York, etal. Nuff sed?

There ARE new readers and OLD infidels so I have to repeat for each generation. Why do you singy-clappers say Lord lord (Hallelujah) 20 times?"

You see Ken, the problem is this. Well one of the problems that is, I know, and adore many friends who worship at the Creek. I'm sorry, but when I say or hear ZOE, I don't define them as Lucifer. Nuff sed? Of course not. You know it's not. You're a coward. With an intense blend of arrogance and ingnorance.

Are you so bold to know the hearts of so many that you have never met or worshipped with? Do you know my heart. I know, you're thinking I'm a coward too for describing myself as a sacred cow, and you're right, I fear if I were to reveal myself that it would only hurt our loving relationship.

Singy-Clappers. Right? Is that your lightening bolt to strike at my heart? Why do "we" say Lord, Lord 20 times? Shall I answer you. Here's just a few reasons to mention the Lord over and over again in a song of praise - if you hold the Old Testament as valid - you'll find ample evidence below.

Psalm 7:17
I will give thanks to the LORD because of his righteousness and will sing praise to the name of the LORD Most High. (He's always righteous - right?)

Psalm 9:1
I will praise you, O LORD , with all my heart; I will tell of all your wonders. (I can speak of his wonders without pausing - right?)

Psalm 9:2
I will be glad and rejoice in you; I will sing praise to your name, O Most High. (I'm glad, so I should rejoice)

Psalm 9:11
Sing praises to the LORD , enthroned in Zion; proclaim among the nations what he has done. (Proclaim to all nations what he has done? That could take a long time)

Psalm 21:13
Be exalted, O LORD , in your strength; we will sing and praise your might. (He is mighty)

Psalm 26:7
proclaiming aloud your praise and telling of all your wonderful deeds. (His wonderful deeds don't stop)

Psalm 30:4
Sing to the LORD , you saints of his; praise his holy name. (Does he have a holy name - yep he does)

Psalm 33:1
Sing joyfully to the LORD , you righteous; it is fitting for the upright to praise him. (Are you upright?)

Psalm 33:2
Praise the LORD with the harp; make music to him on the ten-stringed lyre. (Mooops, I bet this verse makes you sick to your tummy)

Psalm 35:28
My tongue will speak of your righteousness and of your praises all day long. (All day long? That's a lot)

Psalm 43:4
Then will I go to the altar of God, to God, my joy and my delight. I will praise you with the harp, O God, my God. (Mooops, I did it again)

Psalm 44:8
In God we make our boast all day long, and we will praise your name forever. Selah (All day long again?)

Psalm 45:17
I will perpetuate your memory through all generations; therefore the nations will praise you for ever and ever. (There are your generations and mine)

Psalm 47:6
Sing praises to God, sing praises; sing praises to our King, sing praises. (Sing praises - that's a good song)

Psalm 52:9
I will praise you forever for what you have done; in your name I will hope, for your name is good. I will praise you in the presence of your saints. (I will praise you forever? WOW!)

Psalm 61:8
Then will I ever sing praise to your name and fulfill my vows day after day. (Day after day? - see a pattern yet?)

Psalm 71:8
My mouth is filled with your praise, declaring your splendor all day long. (All day?)

Psalm 78:4
We will not hide them from their children; we will tell the next generation the praiseworthy deeds of the LORD , his power, and the wonders he has done. (And those generations again!)

This is just a few as you know. I'm sure you won't post this though.

Sounds to me like saying Lord Lord, 20 times doesn't cut it. All day long, forever, praising your name, epsecially to generations to come so that they'll remember his works and deeds, his power and wonders! Sounds to me like I have more than enough to be thankful for, day in and day out, in fact enough to last me a lifetime. Again, is 20 times enough, I doubt it. It's sad that you would be threatened by such praise.

You see this redundant material is requested and expected.

Your redundant material - it's a bit different to say the least.

You do remember Daivd don't you. A man after God's own heart. He made some mistakes. But he praised the Lord to the end of his days. In fact recorded most of what you read above.

Ken, you should try saying Lord Lord more than 20 times a day, it just might change your life. - But then again you'd have to start another web site and then all your "web friends" might be mad at you - right?

Just curious, are you mad because you hear us singy-clappers, repeat praises over and over again. What else should I be doing? How else should I be singing and praises the Lord. Please include instructions for me to praise - I and a few others must have missed something.

Sacred Praising Cow
Wishing you a Moooooey Christmas - Do you celebrate Christmas?

Moderator - Please approve my moooosage.


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Sacred Cow
Sacred Cow

December 25th, 2003, 7:44 pm #19

The grumble at lipscombunderground is that being from OTTER CREEK trumps seniority and experience in assigning student leadership roles. John O. Yorks site at:

http://johnyork.faithsite.com/

Reveals the PATTERNISM of many churches of Christ which have the inside track to LIPSCOMB. Steve Flatt was, after all, a founding father of the Jubilee and became one of the members of the latter CORPORATION. Just because they bounce some false teachers who are TOO HOT TO HANDLE does not mean that they will not USE others who are more likely to attract than repel those who claim to still be "faithful." ACU still features Max Lucado.

First, John touts the JESUS PROPOSAL which is from a series of sermons by--Who? Why, by John O. York used by Rubel Shelly, which is TRAFFICKING in the sermons preached for pay--with or without a dispensation from the elders.

John York: "How do I make sense of Jesus going back and forth, back and forth between Galilee and Jerusalem in John's account

...when he NEVER goes to Jerusalem in Matthew, Mark, and Luke until the very end of his ministry?

...But that's NOT the WITNESS, the testimony John wants me to confirm.

What I am called to affirm with the witness

..of MY OWN LIFE is that AUTHENTICATING Spirit-presence

...that REVEALS ITSELF when I keep heaven's commandments here on earth, live the from-above life in my down-below setting.

Rubel Shelly John York The Jesus Proposal: The Jesus Project:

Here is what God wants churches passionate about:

(1) "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, (2) that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16).

"Rubel Shelly John York The Jesus Proposal: Paul even uses a JEWISH LEGEND about the water actually following the people around in the desert

..to say that Christ himself was present with those people just like he is with the Corinthians. They were hemmed in on all sides by God and God-activity.

However B.S. (before shelly), Scripture continued to say:

.."And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 1Co.10:4

There is a lot more Otter Creek, Lipscomb, Woodmont Heresy here:

http://www.piney.com/RsJesusProposalI.html

There are three parts but they are all Post-Biblical, Post-modern and Post-Christendom. Everyone should grasp that you cannot MERGE WITH THE WORLD by becomming a UNIVERSITY without betraying your OLD, pre-theft owners. But, how many applauded as they saw the PREACHER FACTORIES being dragged into the woods by the very WOLVES wearing still-wet SHEEP'S SKINS?

Ken Sublett.
Have you even read the Jesus Proposal? Or did the book just give you another reason to hack on those folks again? I'll give you props for at least getting their names right this time. Ken you really need a massage, or some aroma therapy - you seem so tense and stressed in all of your messages. Do you have mad-cow symtoms? You get that from eating your own king you know.
Enjoy the day Ken.

You're Friend
Sacred Cow - ard,
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Kenneth Sublett
Kenneth Sublett

December 26th, 2003, 2:25 am #20

Rubel Shelly and John York "preached" these Bible-distorted messages. However, they claimed that the elders had given them permission to WRITE them on company time and then PUBLISH them. Scribes are linked with Pharisees and the SECTARIAN Hypocrites (singers, speakers, actors for pay) by Jesus.

Now, my little moonbeam reflecting Shelly Light from the ZOE group, in CONTRAST to all of the Slaves of the Watchtowers,I READ the sermons and then just place the straight stick of the Bible alongside the crooked paths of most sermonizers. You cannot HEAR or COMPREHEND in the presence of a confessed "charismatic" preacher. You cannot HEAR and do not PLAN to hear when the logical (spiritual) brain has been CLOSED UP by "music" which tickles all of your PLEASURE PALACES and so HURTS you that your body RUSHES to supply morphine-like endorphins to KILL THE PAIN with enough left over that the MUSICAL MEDIATORS and manipulative speakcers replacing Jesus Christ can sell you the idea that they JACKED YOU UP into the presence of the gods and you had a "knowing" experience with Him. That is Satanic (Luciferian) and VERY superstitious paganism. Sure, the MOST ENLIGHTENED urbans are the FIRST to fall into a totally CRUSHED charismatic brain.

Therefore, I posted a REVIEW of the preached "book" and repudiated the JESUS PROPOSAL long before it was being TRAFFICKED: and lots from all over the world have read them. Remember that Max Lucado confesses to finding a CATCHY THEME. Then, he buys up books on the subject and puts the stuff in a sqirmy way which appeals to those unable to read the truth. The JESUS PROPOSAL will already have had lots of advertising. You, know, like Jubilee promoted by the POPE.

I NEVER review anything which has not been PUBLISHED. I tell the TRUTH and you cannot and will not review my review and refute it without taking Shelly's advice to TAKE LIBERTIES with the old words of Jesus.

Show me a musical or charismatic performance so-called 'WORSHIP' service and I will show you where some of the COW-s of Bashan have promoted the NEW WINESKIN and music to STARVE the people of the WORD as it has been written. Don't depend on me, just read the sermons and you will find that they claim to be POSTMODERN which is post-Biblical and post-Christiandom.

If you love the Living Word you will love the Written Word. And that is why you are putting your trust in people who PUBLISH and sow discord all over the world.

If you think that testing the spirits and refuting what none of the TITHERS or GIVERS of wages can even HEAR in the aura of bigness, is wrong then just too bad, buster.

It is hard for these people to open their mouth without badmouthing "conservatives." The NEW STYLE Jubilee is BUILT ON THE FOUNDATION of JUDGEMENTALLY CREATING A NEW SECTARIANISM which would COLLAPSE without the non-instrumental churches of Christ to CONDEMN to hell. That foundation was laid when the conservative or Bible-based preachers would not ENDORSE Rubel Shelly's false teachings. My suspicion is that it is the most massive, expensive, divisive GET EVEN effort in church history against those who have FIRED the Grace-Centered stable. NO ONE would hire them so they are forced, like Max Lucado in San Antonia, to attempt to become the MOTHER CHURCH of the city. Certainly no Baptist would hire people so anti-Biblical with proven disloyalty for taking a wage to SUBVERT a peacable kingdom. The Disciples will USE the disloyal but they WOULD NOT put them on their RETIREMENT PLAN. After all, Jesus used a word which makes those who repudiate baptism as TREACHEROUS and as INFIDELS.

People who repudiate baptism FOR the remission of sins call God a LIAR. If they feel the NEED to get the tiny circle of PROMOTERS to push their silly books so that we will promote your books then A TINY FEW have the same right to say that IT IS ALL SCHOLARLY nonsense. In the Christian world of ETHICS, the VOCATIONAL teachers trump the GET RICH teachers who KNOW that TRUTH will not TRAFFICK.

It PEDDLES or TRAFFICKS because they know that the masses have been disabled by years of turning the SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE into "theaters for holy entertainment." I am truly sorry but I don't have the time or ability to write 5 second sound bytes for the CRIPPLED LAMBS.

The job of the LOCUSTS (musical performers) and fallen angels is to put ALL of the big church members to sleep so that they CANNOT hear the word. The HEARERS have already been driven out. There is NO MERCY to the LED any more than there is for the BLIND LEADERS. If a person CAN be sucked into this silliness you call "worship" they they are not, in the words of Jesus, OF THE TRUTH. "Believeth nots" are "baptized nots" because they HATE Spiritual truth.

Ken
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