Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 2nd, 2012, 8:19 pm #11

Ken,

Since you are well versed in ancient literature and know quite a bit of scripture (an understatement), could you help me out on something very practical? This would be doing a good deed, and I would appreciate it.

Do you think that we can pray directly to Jesus as the disciples in Acts 1 seemed to do?

Do you think that Jesus is equal to God the Father or was he and the holy Spirit like an "emanation" from the Father?
I'm just noticing that only God the Father knows of the day of the return of the Son. And that Jesus placed himself under the authority of the father according to Philippians 2.

Do you think that Jesus is equal to God the Father or was he and the holy Spirit like an "emanation" from the Father?

The Spirit of God for we mortals is God's BREATH and so Spirit means. God the Father BREATHS as the Spirit of Christ breathed on the Prophets (not kings or priests). Jesus ARTICULATED the BREATH of God into audible WORDS. The WORD of God became flesh. God's breath articulated by the man Jesus of Nazareth is like "congealed breath." In classical trinitarianism:

God thinks
Spirit breathes [Spirit is feminine Sophis or wisdom in the OT.
Son Speaks

I have addressed that under my response to Donnie: Jesus of Nazareth was THE seed of Abraham and David. Seed means SPERM. Messiah would not be a God but the Arm of God. The Spirit OF Christ define the future REST or Holy Convocation both inclusively and exclusively. Preachers tend to ignore that and cannot be preaching Jesus Christ:

Isa 59:15 Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey. And the Lord saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.

Isa 59:16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his ARM brought salvation unto him; [H3467 yâsha]and his RIGHTEOUSNESS, it sustained him.

When God breaths, sends His Arm, His right shoulder, or Word on a mission we should not pretend to understand all parables.

1 Cor. 1:30 But of him are ye IN Christ Jesus,
who OF God is MADE unto us
wisdom, and
righteousness, and
sanctification, and
redemption

Jesus is also the personified GRACE: if He does not reveal the nature of God we do not need to understand the "secret things." I have enough trouble with the Sacred Pages and my IMAGINATION tends to get me into trouble every time. I don't feel any NEED to understand anything He has not given that "pertains to righteousness and godliness."



This means that when God's HAND comes into the Word it will be in the FORM of a MAN.

Isa 59:17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate,and a helmet of salvation upon his head;and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.
Is 59:18 According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompense to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompense.

Isa 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the Lord from the west,
and his glory from the rising of the sun.
When the enemy shall come in like a flood,
the Spirit OF the Lord shall lift up a standard against him.

Standard is a "great wavering or shaking, making them stagger, wander up and down.

Isa 59:20And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and
unto them that turn (Convert) from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted [TURN], that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Those who CRUCIFY HIM ALL OVER TO THEMSELVES by IMPOSING the passion, pride and anxiety of rank paganism.

Isa 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord;
My spirit that is UPON thee,
and my words which I have put in thy mouth,
shall not depart out of thy mouth,
nor out of the mouth of thy seed,
nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seed,
saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.

Jesus was acknowledged as the Son of God only after He was baptized.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified,
both Lord and Christ.


Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

I'm just noticing that only God the Father knows of the day of the return of the Son. And that Jesus placed himself under the authority of the father according to Philippians 2.

That's true: Jesus of Nazareth was given ALL of the authority of what the world saw as "father, mother (spirit) and little son." The NAME of all authority is singular: Peter commanded baptism in the NAME of Jesus.

He IS the Head of the Church: He IS the ONLY Teacher. He is the ONLY one whose words are SPIRIT and LIFE (John 6:63) because as a SON it would be impossible for Him to speak on His own (like the sons of the Devil). He is SON of God and a SON reigns under the authority of His Father (proverbs in John 16).

1Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christs at his coming.
1Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Corinthians 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

ALMOST ALL of the preacher grade TEACHES that Jesus is sitting on a chair somewhere and that THEY are guided by A Holy Spirit Person separated from and SUPERCEDING Jesus. They are terminally blasphemous and INTEND to say that what comes out of their imagination (God said is always wicked) is THE HOLY SPIRIT rocking around inside of their carnal and foolish bodies.

Jesus of Nazareth began when He was conceived: The THREAD of the Old Testament which preserves the Seed of Abraham under the Covenant with Abraham. As Donnie Noted "Jesus Christ" (speaking retrospectively) meaning Christ abandoned His status as the creative WORD connected directly to the God of the universe, and took on the role of "a body prepared for me." A God person could not be crucified and the PROMISE was that THE MAN Jesus would tackle Satan in human form to prove that HUMANS could resist Satan.

He is STILL reigning as a SON and the Preachers CANNOT fit themselves into the "chair" reserved for the ONE GOD and His RIGHT HAND. Parables fool the foolish god pretenders in song and sermon. He LAUGHS as we laught and weep; at the same time.

Last edited by Ken.Sublett on September 2nd, 2012, 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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September 2nd, 2012, 10:13 pm #12

Just a tip for "Scripture" to better understand CM. Never, ever, use the article "the" with Holy Spirit. That is rule #2 at CM. You may get the florescent orange image chart for this violation. Please do not respond to this post. I'm in enough trouble as it is.
This is what I was talking about.

Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211 The gift of a/the holy spirit (no caps) = a/the spirit that is holy July 25 2011, 12:34 AM


R* brings up these questions:
"Why change the Word? I have not found a translation yet that says "gift of a holy spirt". Are they all wrong? Acts 2:38

The issue is "a Holy Spirit" or "the Holy Spirit"? Why change the Word?
These are great questions. I was worried that nobody would even notice the difference and, therefore, not understand (or try to understand) the chart. Actually this type of study is very important and demands a thorough explanation and a list of reliable sources that validate the actual meaning of the passage in Acts 2:38.

Christians have been conditioned to the idea that a mere mention of "the Holy Spirit" automatically refers to the third person in the Trinity doctrine -- which was invented around the Nicean era and officially approved in what was eventually TO BECOME the Roman Catholic Church, by the Council of Nicea, in the 5th century. Obviously, Protestantism has acquired the Trinity doctrine ((but not certain other RCC doctrines) from the Roman Catholic Church, and it has propagated the teaching of this doctrine through the centuries.

I acknowledge that it would be very difficult to decondition a Christian's mind from the Trinity doctrine, even though throughout the gospels, only the Father and His Son were communicating with each other. (Cf. the book of John -- it contains so much of the relationship between the Father and the Son.) NOTE these expressions: "I and my Father are one"; "... but I and the Father that sent me"; "... he that hath seen me hath seen the Father"; etc.

So what about the "Holy Spirit"? This will involve a lot of references and detailed explanation. But recognize the following inconsistency in regard to the "Triune Father-Son-Spirit" doctrine:

1) The Father is a spirit and He is holy -- the Father is the holy spirit.
2) The resurrected Christ is the "Comforter" -- Christ is the holy spirit,
3) To say that "the Holy Spirit" (as a 3rd person) is the holy spirit is redundant.

Another inconsistency in the Trinity doctrine follows:

1) Bible speaks of "the spirit" OF the Father (Matt. 10:20)
2) Bible speaks of "the spirit" OF Jesus Christ (Rom. 8:9; I Pet. 1:11; Phil. 1:19)
3) Bible does NOT speak of "the spirit OF the Holy Spirit" as a 3rd person (NoRef. 99:999)

Another discrepancy or inconsistency is in the preposition "OF" in the expressions: "the spirit OF God," "the spirit OF the Father," "the spirit OF Christ," "the spirit OF the Lord."

1) The preposition "OF" indicates possession or that which belongs.
2) The "spirit" is an entity of/within an entity (just like the body or soul).
3) As an entity of an entity, the "spirit" cannot have and be the name of a "person."

Now, along with the use of the article "a" or "the" should be another question -- when do we capitalize (as in "Holy Spirit") or not capitalize (as in "holy spirit")? OK [time is short], let me explain one in conjunction with the other.

In most of the Greek New Testament manuscripts, neither word in "holy spirit" is capitalized.

The word "spirit" is a noun, singular neuter.

The word "spirit" can mean "ghost, wind, life, mind."

The words "holy spirit" are NOT A NAME (as in Jesus Christ)

The word "holy" is an adjective; it means "pure, holy, consecrated," etc.

In conversion (after baptism), one receives forgiveness of sins;

In conversion (after baptism), one receives a cleansed, purified spirit or mind; a clear, guiltless and refreshed conscience.

One's forgiveness of sins and his cleansed spirit after conversion cannot be separated.

The use of "the" or "a" makes no difference; "a" simply denotes "one" [singular] spirit--that of the new convert's.

The expression "the holy spirit" as a "GIFT" is not a "person"; a "GIFT" is an OBJECT [again, not a person or the name of a "Trinity person"] -- it is that gift of a purified mind, refreshing, or a clear conscience.

The parallel passage in Acts 3:19 will help explain that gift of having "A SPIRIT THAT IS HOLY."

Again, as the chart indicates, that "GIFT OF A SPIRIT or MIND THAT IS HOLY AND PURE" means:


It is NOT the "third person of the TRINITY" doctrine" invented in the 5th century via the Council of Nicea.

It is NOT the "baptism of the Holy Ghost."

It does not make one a Pentecostal.

It does not make one charismatic.

It does not make one a televangelistic healer (Benny Hinn, Oral Roberts, et al).

It does not give one power to heal at a "divine healing service."

It does not give one the gift of gab (speaking in tongues).

It does not give one the power to lay hands on others.

The conversion does not automatically bestow "spiritual gifts."



PARALLEL PASSAGES: ACTS 2:38 ACTS 3:19


REQUIREMENT: Repent Repent
(Conjunction) and and
REQUIREMENT: Be baptized... Be converted
RESULT: For [so that, toward, UNTO] the remission of sins That your sins may be blotted out
RESULT: And ye shall receive the gift of a holy spirit When the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord

NOTICE: When sins are remitted, one receives that gift of purity, that spirit of holiness, of being cleansed. [Note: this is a translation issue -- the expression being used to justify reference to the "Holy Spirit" as another "person" in the Godhead.] The word "holy" is an adjective that describes the kind of spirit one has when the new birth is experienced. It is one's spirit that is MADE HOLY. Therefore, the gift referred to here is a spirit that is HOLY. When sins are blotted out, the conscience is clear; all guilt is removed. It is "when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord." It is the new birth.
NOT TO BE MISTAKEN: It is NOT the "baptism of the Holy Ghost."

It does not make one a Pentecostal.

It does not make one charismatic.

It does not give one power to heal.

It does not give one the gift of gab (speaking in tongues).

It does not give one the power to lay hands on others.
It is NOT the "baptism of the Holy Ghost."

It does not make one a Pentecostal.

It does not make one charismatic.

It does not give one power to heal.

It does not give one the gift of gab (speaking in tongues).

It does not give one the power to lay hands on others.




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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 2nd, 2012, 10:40 pm #13

I Affirm: if you read the whole context and parallel passages and DEFINE words then you CANNOT be CONFUSED. Donnie has said EXACTLY what the BLACK text on BROWN paper makes absolutely certain.

I also affirm as truth that you don't know of a preacher-grade preachers who goes BEYOND looking up words in a Topical Bible or who STEAL sermon outlines just listing all of the things the SPIRIT is said to do. This convinces them that the Spirit OF Christ (Mind, mental disposition).

If you get brave and ventured into the Grace Centered Forum you will find that the then and now "preachers" go into an insane fit if anyone not of that class posts something that they have never heard or which does not fit into the PATTERN OF UNSOUND WORDS they have memorized well enough to lecture people.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your MIND, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


Our UNholy spirit becomes A holy spirit or A good conscience as the RESULT of baptism which is said to "wash away our sins." That cannot be missed by anyone WITH EYES AND EARS.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 2nd, 2012, 11:15 pm #14

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September 3rd, 2012, 12:12 am #15

Just a tip for "Scripture" to better understand CM. Never, ever, use the article "the" with Holy Spirit. That is rule #2 at CM. You may get the florescent orange image chart for this violation. Please do not respond to this post. I'm in enough trouble as it is.

Wrong; we ALWAYS use THE. Example: THE Holy Spirit OF Christ. We learned in grade six maybe that OF is a preposition. The Gift God means a Gift which comes from God. It does not mean GOD inside of your literal, carnal body body.

The Spirit OF anger does not mean that Anger is a person named ANGER. Spirit may mean the Spirit OF a Demon which was the Purpose Driving all charismatic musical worship. The goal was to have the DEMON literally take over your body: When someone promises to BRING YOU INTO THE PRESENCE OF GOD they don't tell you that god is derived from GAD who is the god of fortune or good luck. You might get lucky from a woman of joy.

Job 15:2 Should a wise man utter vain knowledge, and fill his belly with the east wind [h7307 SPIRIT]?

Sapio or Sophos in the Greek: A. skilled in any handicraft or art, clever,mantis Margites Fr.2; but in this sense mostly of poets and musicians, Pi.O.1.9, P.1.42, 3.113; en kithara s. E.IT1238 (lyr.)

Job 15:35 They conceive mischief [CHAFF], and bring forth vanity, and their belly prepareth deceit. [STUBBLE]

They LUST to be baptized with WIND and FIRE.

John identified ANTICHRIST as a person who denies the ONE FATHER in heaven and ONE SON

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,
that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified,
both Lord and Christ.

1Timothy 2:5 For there is one God,
and one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus;

If you just QUOTE the face the Grace Centered agents will bust your knee caps: they have a female mother I think. The pseudo-conservatives will give them aid and comfort.

For sure, one who does not have the "fruits of the Spirit" (Greek, karpos tou pneumatos) also does not have the Spirit, regardless of his or her claim--or at least does not have the "full" Spirit. Neither does he have a holy Spirit as measured by the Word of God. These fruits include love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control (Gal. 5:22-23).

Proper "spiriting" is dependent on the gift of Christ, in that the love of God is shown in the sacrifice, by which we know true love (and joy, and peace, and patience....), and so we pass that love onto others, through the imitation of Christ's love for us. The love of God is shown through the work-gift of Christ as described in the Scriptures, which brings to our attention the qualities of God. We see that love because it was practiced here below.

Look to the Scriptures for the proper definition and examples of the fruits of the Spirit. An additional proof of the Spirit is that we must speak truth. This becomes very clear in 1 John. A false spirit is one that teaches against the Word of God. Any shortcut to the Spirit runs aground.

Stupendous works of the Spirit toward salvation is rooted in Calvin who believed that a Sovereign God determined from the foundation of the world, whom he would move (by the Spirit) to be saved--that is by irresistable grace. Reactions against Calvin resulted in the popularity of Free Will, by which we have the choice in faith and obedience to show our joy. That choice is enlivened by our appreciation that Jesus came to give himself for us.


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September 3rd, 2012, 1:54 am #16

If you will review the posts it should be clear that the another Comforter is named Jesus Christ the Righteous" by the same John. If the NAME of the Spirit OF Christ is Jesus Christ, then the fruits of the Spirit come from Christ who said My WORDS are Spirit (John 6:63). Here are some Scriptures which will help taking the glory from Jesus Christ Who is the Word of God: God SPEAKS and things are CREATED. Our words have zero value no matter how much you PAY for the FREE water of the Word.

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ;
.....that ye should be married to another,
.....even to him who is raised from the dead,
.....that we should bring forth fruit unto God
Romans 7:5 For when we were IN the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law,
.....did work in our members [ours] to bring forth fruit unto death.
Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held;
.....that we should serve in newness of spirit, [ours]
.....and not in the oldness of the letter

Galatians 5:16 This I say then,
.....Walk in the spirit, [ours]
.....and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. [ours]
Galatians 5:17 For the flesh [ours]
.....lusteth against the Spirit,
.....and the Spirit [ours]
.....against the flesh: [ours]
.....and these are contrary the one to the other:
.....so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Philippians 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more
.....in knowledge and in all judgment;
Philippians 1:10 That ye may approve things that are excellent;
.....that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;
Philippians 1:11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness,
.....which are by Jesus Christ,
.....unto the glory and praise of God.

The Fruits of the Spirit OF Christ is the fruit of Christ. Christ died to give us the Word and since we are DISCIPLES and not "ritualistic worshipers" Christ INTENDED that the Word teach us as His Living Will and only textbook. He has no need for people who do not grasp "obedience of faith."

Peter, defined a similar list of SPIRITS and told us to USE DILIGENCE to add this: A disciple GROWS through education.

2Peter 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
2Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness,
.....through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers .....of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Peter 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Peter 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Peter 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Peter 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you
.....that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Peter 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
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September 3rd, 2012, 2:38 am #17

Ken wrote (and very well):

"If you will review the posts it should be clear that the another Comforter is named Jesus Christ the Righteous" by the same John. If the NAME of the Spirit OF Christ is Jesus Christ, then the fruits of the Spirit come from Christ who said My WORDS are Spirit (John 6:63). Here are some Scriptures which will help taking the glory from Jesus Christ Who is the Word of God. . . ." And then he gives some very supporting passages. These are good.

I would add a verse from Jas 1:21. "Wherefore putting away all filthiness and superfluity of evil in meekness receive ye the IMPLANTED word -- being able to save the souls of you."

This word is the word of Christ which must be IMPLANTED to save the soul. Implanting places the word in the heart and in the mind. It is more than mere memorization, but includes the practice of the word. There can be no shortcut here. There is a great need to have preachers, teachers, and members who are familiar with Jesus' words. There is no other shortcut to revitalizing the church.

The wider society is out there. It is composed of Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, nonbelievers, secularists, and those who don't know. Nothing can challenge them more or more effectively than in-depth teaching from the Christ. His word is greater and stronger than any message out there, but it must be presented.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 3rd, 2012, 2:50 am #18

I agree. I am appending some notes from John Calvin. Sometimes Calvinists don't read the real John Calvin. Scripture is for our learning and understanding is supposed to grow. Sometimes Calvin, like every one leans too heavy in one direction or another but the subject has to be understood. Calvin is particularly bad in not making clear when his enemies are speaking and Calvin is speaking. We all have that trouble.

"John Calvin Fanatics Appeal to the Holy Spirit"

http://www.piney.com/CalvinSpWord.html

1. The temper and error of the Libertines, who take to themselves the name of spiritual, briefly described. Their refutation.

(a). The Apostles and all true Christians have embraced the written Word. This confirmed by a passage in Isaiah; also by the example and words of Paul.

(b). The Spirit of Christ seals the doctrine of the written Word on the minds of the godly.

(2) Refutation continued.

a) The impositions of Satan cannot be detected without the aid of the written Word. First Objection. The Answer to it.

3. Second Objection from the words of Paul as to the letter and spirit.
....The Answer, with an explanation of Paul's meaning. How the Spirit and the written Word are indissolubly connected.

1.The fanatics wrongly appeal to the Holy Spirit

Those who, rejecting Scripture, imagine that they have some peculiar way of penetrating to God, are to be deemed not so much under the influence of error as madness. For certain giddy men have lately appeared, who, while they make a great display of the superiority of the Spirit, reject all reading of the Scriptures themselves, and deride the simplicity of those who only delight in what they call the dead and deadly letter.

But I wish they would tell me what spirit it is whose inspiration raises them to such a sublime height that they dare despise the doctrine of Scripture as mean and childish.

If they answer that it is the Spirit of Christ, their confidence is exceedingly ridiculous; since they will, I presume, admit that the apostles and other believers in the primitive Church were not illuminated by any other Spirit.

None of these thereby learned to despise the word of God, but every one was imbued with greater reverence for it, as their writings most clearly testify.

And, indeed, it had been so foretold by the mouth of Isaiah. For when he says,

"My Spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever," he does not tie down the ancient Church to external doctrine, as he were a mere teacher of elements; he rather shows that, under the reign of Christ, the true and full felicity of the new Church will consist in their being ruled not less by the Word than by the Spirit of God.

Hence we infer that these miscreants are guilty of fearful sacrilege in tearing asunder what the prophet joins in indissoluble union.

Add to this, that Paul, though carried up even to the third heaven, ceased not to profit by the doctrine of the law and the prophets, while, in like manner, he exhorts Timothy, a teacher of singular excellence, to give attention to reading, (1 Tim. 4: 13.)

And the eulogium which he pronounces on Scripture well deserves to be remembered, viz., that

"it is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect," (2 Tim. 3: 16.)

What an infatuation of the devil, therefore, to fancy that Scripture, which conducts the sons of God to the final goal, is of transient and temporary use?

Again, I should like those people to tell me whether they have imbibed any other Spirit than that which Christ promised to his disciples. Though their madness is extreme, it will scarcely carry them the length of making this their boast.

But what kind of Spirit did our Saviour promise to send? One who should not speak of himself, (John 16: 13,)
but suggest and instil the truths which he himself had delivered through the word.
Hence the office of the Spirit promised to us, is not to form new and unheard-of revelations, or to coin a new form of doctrine, by which we may be led away from the received doctrine of the gospel,

but to seal on our minds the very doctrine which the gospel recommends.
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September 3rd, 2012, 3:00 am #19


Very good. So Calvin defends the Scripture in essence, as above self-proclaimed Spiritualists.

I had heard that his disciples may not have understood him. Not that he was always correct.

He was complex and had multiple views.

I did hear that he was a genius.




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September 3rd, 2012, 3:24 am #20

I don't always understand him but I am a huge fan. I have taken some of his papers and tried to find out who is speaking. It helps to cross reference his papers. I was just looking at his Free Will article and I suspect that he was able to disconnect from Calvinism.

When speaking of predestination I am still not sure what the real Calvin was saying.

He said that two direct operations of the Spirit of God were required:

First, he said, God gave us Scriptures which themselves prove that no one could find out on their own.

Second, he said, Jesus sent out Evangelists to preach it. Paul said that he MINISTERED "spirit" by preaching.

The real failure of scholars is not reading the original texts. Instead, they quote someone's opinion and that is always dangerous. If you are going to "publish or perish" you are almost required to quote your professors and their professors. I have tracked down lots of "He said" and found that they are almost always out of context.

I don't need to be right: I just need to be a diligent seeker.
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