R*
R*

May 16th, 2011, 4:48 pm #91

Perhaps as a sign of good faith, Dr. Crump will "walk the walk" and not just "talk the talk". Barnyard antics (clucking like a chicken) are very immature. BTW, that's just my opinion and observation.

The moderator's requests are reasonable and well founded.
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

May 16th, 2011, 6:08 pm #92

Yes, the moderator's request is reaonable and well founded. Talk about immaturity, when the moderator says "Please STOP" the personal attacks, it is also immature for a person to keep attacking certain posters here with, "You don't love the Lord's church" and "You will pay" (implying damnation in hell) because those posters disagree with him. Moreover, I think that posters who maintain some form of anonymity and will not reveal their whole, true identities are basically immature. BTW, that's just my opinion and observation.
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Dave
Dave

May 17th, 2011, 1:34 am #93

According to the change agents' theology, God approves of the statement, "God didn't say not to" (even though that statement is not found anywhere in the New Testament); failure to adhere to that statement is a man-made tradition. According to that theology, man can follow any doctrine that he ASSUMES to be true, even if it is not found in the New Testament. Indeed, THAT is a man-made tradition. Change agents also claim that God authorizes and commands instrumental music in CHRISTIAN worship. But no such authorization or command exists in the New Testament, which is the source for understanding Christian worship. Therefore, saying that we have "divine authority" for using IM in Christian worship is an untruth and is definitely a man-made tradition.

BTW, Donnie, if Dave really has NOT revealed his last name at CM and he deleted it at FaithSite, then the infernal regions would be building igloos before he'd ever let you reveal his last name here. Paranoia does have its price.
R*,
Unfortunately......what you see is what you get. I still know that God can change a man's heart, if that man will let God take control of his life. He has got to want it.
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Dave
Dave

May 17th, 2011, 2:04 am #94

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]This thread is being addressed to IM lovers. I am thinking specifically of Dave who has constantly endorsed and defended the use of musical devices in the assembly of saints. [BTW, Dave, will you allow me to reveal to CM readers your last name? I do not recall you ever mentioning your last name here as you did at the other site (which I would not label as "evil"). I think that you mentioned your last name briefly at the other site only when you challenged Mike to a debate. I could say more about that challenge, etc., but that's really not about this thread. And you edited it out shortly after.]

In many of our discussions with you regarding IM, you never fail to mention that "not using" musical instruments in the gathering of saints is a human or man-made tradition in the church. [By now I hope that you are convinced that "in the church" means "in the church of Christ" that you claim to be a member of.]

Whenever I mention to you that the worship of "the Virgin Mary, Mother of God" is a good example of man-made traditions, you immediately dismiss it in defense of IM as being commanded and authorized by God, as well as being pleasing to Him.

We have just heard of the beatification of the RCC pope John Paul II. (There are so many doctrinal errors in Roman Catholicism. I strongly believe that based on what the Holy Scripture teaches. What about you? Anyway, when time allows, there will be a lot of discussions in the future regarding these errors.)

Just to name a few from a long list of Catholic heresies and "human traditions," here they are:[/color]
  • Prayers for the dead
    </li>
  • Wax candles introduced in church in the 4th century
    </li>
  • Veneration of angels and dead saints
    </li>
  • Worship of Mary, "Mother of God"
    </li>
  • Prayers directed to Mary or dead saints
    </li>
  • Extreme Unction
    </li>
  • Doctrine of Purgatory in the 6th century
    </li>
  • Worship of the cross, images and relics
    </li>
  • Canonization of dead saints
    </li>
  • ... and so many, many more
    </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]It is apparent that the Roman Catholic Church has evolved through the centuries because of the evolution of these man-made traditions. Unlike in the very early centuries, the church that Christ established in about 33AD does not now resemble at all the ever-evolving Roman Catholic Church.

My point is that man-made traditions, including the ones listed above, which were of PAGAN origins, are matters that man-made tradition believers do and observe, instead of what these believers DO NOT DO NOR OBSERVE.

Do you see my point? How can you assert that by "NOT DOING, NOT OBSERVING, something," it is a tradition?

Instead, using musical instruments in the assembly of saints is THE man-made tradition. Recorded history reveals it.[/color]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Let us discuss civilly, please. No name-calling, no grammatical concerns, no personal attacks, no hostile remarks. Thanks!
R*......another thing.......if you don't agree with William, if you aren't his yes man....then get ready to be dealt your fair of slander. William shows no bias. Come new and come old, whatever truth you lay at his feet he can shake it off him like water on a duck's back.
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Dave
Dave

May 17th, 2011, 2:15 am #95

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]This thread is being addressed to IM lovers. I am thinking specifically of Dave who has constantly endorsed and defended the use of musical devices in the assembly of saints. [BTW, Dave, will you allow me to reveal to CM readers your last name? I do not recall you ever mentioning your last name here as you did at the other site (which I would not label as "evil"). I think that you mentioned your last name briefly at the other site only when you challenged Mike to a debate. I could say more about that challenge, etc., but that's really not about this thread. And you edited it out shortly after.]

In many of our discussions with you regarding IM, you never fail to mention that "not using" musical instruments in the gathering of saints is a human or man-made tradition in the church. [By now I hope that you are convinced that "in the church" means "in the church of Christ" that you claim to be a member of.]

Whenever I mention to you that the worship of "the Virgin Mary, Mother of God" is a good example of man-made traditions, you immediately dismiss it in defense of IM as being commanded and authorized by God, as well as being pleasing to Him.

We have just heard of the beatification of the RCC pope John Paul II. (There are so many doctrinal errors in Roman Catholicism. I strongly believe that based on what the Holy Scripture teaches. What about you? Anyway, when time allows, there will be a lot of discussions in the future regarding these errors.)

Just to name a few from a long list of Catholic heresies and "human traditions," here they are:[/color]
  • Prayers for the dead
    </li>
  • Wax candles introduced in church in the 4th century
    </li>
  • Veneration of angels and dead saints
    </li>
  • Worship of Mary, "Mother of God"
    </li>
  • Prayers directed to Mary or dead saints
    </li>
  • Extreme Unction
    </li>
  • Doctrine of Purgatory in the 6th century
    </li>
  • Worship of the cross, images and relics
    </li>
  • Canonization of dead saints
    </li>
  • ... and so many, many more
    </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]It is apparent that the Roman Catholic Church has evolved through the centuries because of the evolution of these man-made traditions. Unlike in the very early centuries, the church that Christ established in about 33AD does not now resemble at all the ever-evolving Roman Catholic Church.

My point is that man-made traditions, including the ones listed above, which were of PAGAN origins, are matters that man-made tradition believers do and observe, instead of what these believers DO NOT DO NOR OBSERVE.

Do you see my point? How can you assert that by "NOT DOING, NOT OBSERVING, something," it is a tradition?

Instead, using musical instruments in the assembly of saints is THE man-made tradition. Recorded history reveals it.[/color]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Let us discuss civilly, please. No name-calling, no grammatical concerns, no personal attacks, no hostile remarks. Thanks!
Donnie, you asked "Now, Dave, just who is loyal to Christ and HIS CHURCH?"

It isn't you or anyone who supports your tearing down the churches of our Lord and putting them up for pubic ridicule, like you continue to do here.

Donnie, how does your whining and presenting your gripes and complaints before the public feel now?
Hey Donnie, you say that there is no AUTHORITY for having instrumental music in your hourly worship.....where do you get such authority to bring complaints against any Lord's church for in such a public manner for even heathens to witness? You don't have such authority. In fact, you have gone against the manner in which the Scriptures tell us to act.
It tells us to keep it within the church ONLY.


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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

May 17th, 2011, 2:48 am #96

A Disciple of Christs hungers and thirsts to know all that they can possible know about God the Father and Jesus of Nazareth who is still SPIRIT and out only Master Teacher. It's an easy test. Sons of the Devil speak on their own: a Disciple will warn off the Dogs and Wolves (Catamites or praise howlers).

Jesus said that Doctors of the law take away the key to knowledge: a Disciple of Christ will prove that God always makes fools of theologians.

John 7:15 And the Jews marvelled, saying,
.....How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?
John 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said,
.....My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
John 7:17 If any man will do his will,
.....he shall know of the doctrine,
.....whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

People who compose their own sermons and present it with the what Jesus called the Hypocritics arts--rhetoricians, singers and instrument players--a disciple has the duty to warn those WITH EARS that hypocrites will be cast alive into the lake of fire. Fools will not listen and Jesus spoke to the Scribes and Pharisees in parables. Too bad, too sad.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory:
.....but he that seeketh his glory that sent him,
.....the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Those who manufacture their own "updated" sermosn are seeking their own glory and are therefore unrighteous. Jesus nor Paul asked no permission to point out the thieves and liars.

John 10:6 This parable spake Jesus unto them:
.....but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
John 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
.....I am the door of the sheep.
John 10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
John 10:9 I am the door:
.....by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved,
.....and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy:
.....I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
John 10:11 I am the good shepherd:
.....the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

A man with Testesterone will try to silence the thieves and soul murderers: whiners can just whine.

If you are not OF TRUTH or OF FAITH you will NOT hear the voice of the Shepherd.
If people follow the dogs and wolves then they are NOT lambs and if they do not flee Babylon they will fall into the ditch (pit or lake of fire) with the rhetoricians, singers and instrument players John and all of history calls SORCERERS: thou shalt not defend a sorcer or witch an NOT be cast alive into the lake of fire.

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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

May 17th, 2011, 2:53 am #97

Donnie, you asked "Now, Dave, just who is loyal to Christ and HIS CHURCH?"

It isn't you or anyone who supports your tearing down the churches of our Lord and putting them up for pubic ridicule, like you continue to do here.

Donnie, how does your whining and presenting your gripes and complaints before the public feel now?
Hey Donnie, you say that there is no AUTHORITY for having instrumental music in your hourly worship.....where do you get such authority to bring complaints against any Lord's church for in such a public manner for even heathens to witness? You don't have such authority. In fact, you have gone against the manner in which the Scriptures tell us to act.
It tells us to keep it within the church ONLY.

Donnie said, "Please STOP" the personal attacks. I guess Dave has no intention of stopping his personal attacks on those who disagree with him. I do wish that some action would be taken about that.
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

May 17th, 2011, 4:12 am #98

R*,
Unfortunately......what you see is what you get. I still know that God can change a man's heart, if that man will let God take control of his life. He has got to want it.
We can trust that God hears the prayers of a righteous man. However, when "prayers" are used as a prop to make an evil man appear to be "righteous," those "prayers" become a mockery.

There are several posts on this site that address insincere prayers, also known as "crocodile prayers." The classic scenario of using crocodile prayers is like this: A man comes to an Internet religious message board and delivers his brand of theology. If people disagree with him, the man posts angry, hostile messages crammed with ridicule, personal attacks, and utter hate. When others rebuke the man for his blatant, un-Christ-like behavior, the man makes a big show of declaring that he will "pray" for all those dissenting "sinners," whom he has consigned to hell. In other words, the man attempts to whitewash his own evil with insincere prayers--crocodile prayers. They certainly make a mockery of prayer.

Let's be sure that our prayers on Internet message boards are always done in the spirit of goodwill. Do not engage in crocodile prayers.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

May 17th, 2011, 5:42 am #99

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]This thread is being addressed to IM lovers. I am thinking specifically of Dave who has constantly endorsed and defended the use of musical devices in the assembly of saints. [BTW, Dave, will you allow me to reveal to CM readers your last name? I do not recall you ever mentioning your last name here as you did at the other site (which I would not label as "evil"). I think that you mentioned your last name briefly at the other site only when you challenged Mike to a debate. I could say more about that challenge, etc., but that's really not about this thread. And you edited it out shortly after.]

In many of our discussions with you regarding IM, you never fail to mention that "not using" musical instruments in the gathering of saints is a human or man-made tradition in the church. [By now I hope that you are convinced that "in the church" means "in the church of Christ" that you claim to be a member of.]

Whenever I mention to you that the worship of "the Virgin Mary, Mother of God" is a good example of man-made traditions, you immediately dismiss it in defense of IM as being commanded and authorized by God, as well as being pleasing to Him.

We have just heard of the beatification of the RCC pope John Paul II. (There are so many doctrinal errors in Roman Catholicism. I strongly believe that based on what the Holy Scripture teaches. What about you? Anyway, when time allows, there will be a lot of discussions in the future regarding these errors.)

Just to name a few from a long list of Catholic heresies and "human traditions," here they are:[/color]
  • Prayers for the dead
    </li>
  • Wax candles introduced in church in the 4th century
    </li>
  • Veneration of angels and dead saints
    </li>
  • Worship of Mary, "Mother of God"
    </li>
  • Prayers directed to Mary or dead saints
    </li>
  • Extreme Unction
    </li>
  • Doctrine of Purgatory in the 6th century
    </li>
  • Worship of the cross, images and relics
    </li>
  • Canonization of dead saints
    </li>
  • ... and so many, many more
    </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]It is apparent that the Roman Catholic Church has evolved through the centuries because of the evolution of these man-made traditions. Unlike in the very early centuries, the church that Christ established in about 33AD does not now resemble at all the ever-evolving Roman Catholic Church.

My point is that man-made traditions, including the ones listed above, which were of PAGAN origins, are matters that man-made tradition believers do and observe, instead of what these believers DO NOT DO NOR OBSERVE.

Do you see my point? How can you assert that by "NOT DOING, NOT OBSERVING, something," it is a tradition?

Instead, using musical instruments in the assembly of saints is THE man-made tradition. Recorded history reveals it.[/color]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Let us discuss civilly, please. No name-calling, no grammatical concerns, no personal attacks, no hostile remarks. Thanks!
Dave said: It isn't you or anyone who supports your tearing down the churches of our Lord and putting them up for pubic ridicule, like you continue to do here.

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]RESPONSE: Dave, first, the Lord has only ONE church--NOT churches. Evidently, you paid no attention to my earlier post concerning the activities of the change agents. So, here they are, Dave:[/color]<ol>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Restructuring church organization;[/color]
</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Women leading men in the church -- new role of women;[/color]
</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Altering the meaning and purpose of baptism;[/color]
</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Expanding the Lord's Supper as being also a fellowship meal/brunch;[/color]
</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Extending "church" fellowship with those outside of the church;[/color]
</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Accepting membership from any denomination without the NT way;[/color]
</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Ridiculing their Restoration heritage and rewriting its history;[/color]
</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Emulating "worship style" and programming made for TV;[/color]
</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Incorporating psychology and philosophy into church programs;[/color]
</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Using denominational sources and materials in "Bible studies";[/color]
</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Inviting denominational speakers and lecturers to the congregation;[/color]
</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Holding mixed services and gatherings with denominational groups;[/color]
</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]De-emphasizing pure biblical studies;[/color]
</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Regressing from New Testament teachings to OT law & observances;[/color]
</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Digressing from worship in spirit and truth to mechanical music;[/color]
</li>[*][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]etc., etc., etc. [/color]</li>[/list][color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave, what don't you understand about the change agents and their left-wing, liberal agenda?[/color]

Dave said: "Donnie, how does your whining and presenting your gripes and complaints before the public feel now? Hey Donnie, you say that there is no AUTHORITY for having instrumental music in your hourly worship.....where do you get such authority to bring complaints against any Lord's church for in such a public manner for even heathens to witness? You don't have such authority. In fact, you have gone against the manner in which the Scriptures tell us to act. It tells us to keep it within the church ONLY."

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]RESPONSE: Dave, I do not complain about the Lord's church. ConcernedMembers is exposing the subversive, divisive, intrusive, destructive, despicable activities of the change agents who ridicule the church, ridicule their Restoration heritage, compromise and alter the truth and New Testament teachings. Yes, there is NO AUTHORITY for mechanical music when saints gather to teach and admonish one another with the word of Christ.[/color]

NOTE: I would encourage posters to respond to this post (as well as other posts) civilly ... only.
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R*
R*

May 17th, 2011, 11:29 am #100

In another thread, Donnie recently posted "Please STOP" all the personal attacks. Dave's recent post continues to smear this site as well as Donnie, Ken, and Dr. Crump. I ask that this and all future posts like it be dumped into the Special Den of Vipers or deleted altogether.
"In another thread, Donnie recently posted "Please STOP" all the personal attacks."

*************************************************************

Dr. Crump, did you know the moderator (Donnie) made the request to stop the personal attacks in THIS thread? It was in the first post of THIS thread. Some 90+ posts have happened since he made the request. Did you really not know that? Perhaps a review of the header post in THIS thread is in order. Let's support the moderator's request.
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on May 26th, 2011, 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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