Dave
Dave

May 4th, 2011, 12:56 pm #11

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]This thread is being addressed to IM lovers. I am thinking specifically of Dave who has constantly endorsed and defended the use of musical devices in the assembly of saints. [BTW, Dave, will you allow me to reveal to CM readers your last name? I do not recall you ever mentioning your last name here as you did at the other site (which I would not label as "evil"). I think that you mentioned your last name briefly at the other site only when you challenged Mike to a debate. I could say more about that challenge, etc., but that's really not about this thread. And you edited it out shortly after.]

In many of our discussions with you regarding IM, you never fail to mention that "not using" musical instruments in the gathering of saints is a human or man-made tradition in the church. [By now I hope that you are convinced that "in the church" means "in the church of Christ" that you claim to be a member of.]

Whenever I mention to you that the worship of "the Virgin Mary, Mother of God" is a good example of man-made traditions, you immediately dismiss it in defense of IM as being commanded and authorized by God, as well as being pleasing to Him.

We have just heard of the beatification of the RCC pope John Paul II. (There are so many doctrinal errors in Roman Catholicism. I strongly believe that based on what the Holy Scripture teaches. What about you? Anyway, when time allows, there will be a lot of discussions in the future regarding these errors.)

Just to name a few from a long list of Catholic heresies and "human traditions," here they are:[/color]
  • Prayers for the dead
    </li>
  • Wax candles introduced in church in the 4th century
    </li>
  • Veneration of angels and dead saints
    </li>
  • Worship of Mary, "Mother of God"
    </li>
  • Prayers directed to Mary or dead saints
    </li>
  • Extreme Unction
    </li>
  • Doctrine of Purgatory in the 6th century
    </li>
  • Worship of the cross, images and relics
    </li>
  • Canonization of dead saints
    </li>
  • ... and so many, many more
    </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]It is apparent that the Roman Catholic Church has evolved through the centuries because of the evolution of these man-made traditions. Unlike in the very early centuries, the church that Christ established in about 33AD does not now resemble at all the ever-evolving Roman Catholic Church.

My point is that man-made traditions, including the ones listed above, which were of PAGAN origins, are matters that man-made tradition believers do and observe, instead of what these believers DO NOT DO NOR OBSERVE.

Do you see my point? How can you assert that by "NOT DOING, NOT OBSERVING, something," it is a tradition?

Instead, using musical instruments in the assembly of saints is THE man-made tradition. Recorded history reveals it.[/color]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Let us discuss civilly, please. No name-calling, no grammatical concerns, no personal attacks, no hostile remarks. Thanks!
So Donnie, in all of your diatribe, it simply means that you can't prove what you accused me of.....you are a liar.

Your #5 asked why I would insist on on calling you a liar.
Donnie, you and William Crump, and Ken Sublett are enemies of the Lord's church.
You have sinned and will not repent of your sins against the Lord's church.
Truth is, because of the reproach that you have brought against yourself for your personal slander against the Lord's church, you cannot be considered a brother.

You have received what you have asked for.

1 John 4:20
Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.

You, Donnie, are on the outside looking in.


You claim to love God, yet time and time again have held the Lord's church at Madison, up for public ridicule. In the process you have condemned only yourself.

I am not the one who is condemning you. You have done that yourself. All that I have done is brought it to view.

Since this is a serious matter, and I am bring to light these charges against you, you certainly can use the REST of my last name. I will not sue you.

Take your pokes at me Donnie. Slander me like you have the Lord's church. I know this though, I love the Lord's church. You do not! You could not!
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

May 4th, 2011, 4:18 pm #12

So instead of answering Donnie's 14 questions, Dave would rather holler,

Liar! Liar!
Pants on fire!
You don't love the Lord's church!
Slander! Boo!
God's a-gonna git you!

Dave cited 1 John 4:20. Dave's tirade sounds like a hate message for Donnie, Dr. Crump, and Ken. Although Dave claims to love the Lord's church, it certainly sounds like he DOES NOT at all love those three men, with whom Dave disagrees. What Dave is basically saying is that those who don't agree with him don't love the Lord's church. That's a man-made tradition if I ever saw one.
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

May 4th, 2011, 5:44 pm #13

I'm wondering if that should be "Judgment [with one 'e'] REIGNS," not "rains." Just a thought. Homophones can be tricky.
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Dave
Dave

May 5th, 2011, 4:13 am #14

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]This thread is being addressed to IM lovers. I am thinking specifically of Dave who has constantly endorsed and defended the use of musical devices in the assembly of saints. [BTW, Dave, will you allow me to reveal to CM readers your last name? I do not recall you ever mentioning your last name here as you did at the other site (which I would not label as "evil"). I think that you mentioned your last name briefly at the other site only when you challenged Mike to a debate. I could say more about that challenge, etc., but that's really not about this thread. And you edited it out shortly after.]

In many of our discussions with you regarding IM, you never fail to mention that "not using" musical instruments in the gathering of saints is a human or man-made tradition in the church. [By now I hope that you are convinced that "in the church" means "in the church of Christ" that you claim to be a member of.]

Whenever I mention to you that the worship of "the Virgin Mary, Mother of God" is a good example of man-made traditions, you immediately dismiss it in defense of IM as being commanded and authorized by God, as well as being pleasing to Him.

We have just heard of the beatification of the RCC pope John Paul II. (There are so many doctrinal errors in Roman Catholicism. I strongly believe that based on what the Holy Scripture teaches. What about you? Anyway, when time allows, there will be a lot of discussions in the future regarding these errors.)

Just to name a few from a long list of Catholic heresies and "human traditions," here they are:[/color]
  • Prayers for the dead
    </li>
  • Wax candles introduced in church in the 4th century
    </li>
  • Veneration of angels and dead saints
    </li>
  • Worship of Mary, "Mother of God"
    </li>
  • Prayers directed to Mary or dead saints
    </li>
  • Extreme Unction
    </li>
  • Doctrine of Purgatory in the 6th century
    </li>
  • Worship of the cross, images and relics
    </li>
  • Canonization of dead saints
    </li>
  • ... and so many, many more
    </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]It is apparent that the Roman Catholic Church has evolved through the centuries because of the evolution of these man-made traditions. Unlike in the very early centuries, the church that Christ established in about 33AD does not now resemble at all the ever-evolving Roman Catholic Church.

My point is that man-made traditions, including the ones listed above, which were of PAGAN origins, are matters that man-made tradition believers do and observe, instead of what these believers DO NOT DO NOR OBSERVE.

Do you see my point? How can you assert that by "NOT DOING, NOT OBSERVING, something," it is a tradition?

Instead, using musical instruments in the assembly of saints is THE man-made tradition. Recorded history reveals it.[/color]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Let us discuss civilly, please. No name-calling, no grammatical concerns, no personal attacks, no hostile remarks. Thanks!
William,
I'm the one who is giving a hate message?
Oh no, William, for it is not I, but you and Ken and Donnie, who continually TRY and slander the Lord's church. YOU spew forth the vile hatred. Unfortunately, someone, like me, just happened to call your number on it. Such a public offense and sin is not against one or more persons, but against the Lord's church in general. All you have to do is repent, and you are off the hook.
Jesus forgive, if you ask. Jesus LOVES taking men and women off the hook for their sins. It is why He died for us.
Your move....
Just remember, this life is but a vapor, then you have eternity to deal with your decisions.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

May 5th, 2011, 5:29 am #15

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

The last time I checked, churches of Christ (40,000 congregation-strong worldwide) do not allow inanimate, lifeless musical devices to participate in their assemblies. ConcernedMembers is dedicated to mark the change agents and folks like you who go against the beliefs and Scripture-conforming practices of the church, the body of Christ.

So, just who is going against the grain? It is not ConcernedMembers. Rather, it is the change agents and other folks like you!!! So, just who is going against the Lord's church? It is not the ConcernedMembers website. Rather, it is the change agents and other folks like you.

You should know by now that instrumental music, when introduced, implemented and practised in the assembly, is a DIVISIVE ISSUE in the church, the body of Christ. Yet, the change agents operating in the brotherhood are out there to transform the church into something that it is not and shouldn't be.

We are here to defend the church and be loyal to Christ and His church. On the other hand, the change agents are out there to do the opposite -- change the church and make it conform to the demands of denominationalism, Community Church-ism, culture and society.[/color]
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Dave
Dave

May 5th, 2011, 5:33 am #16

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]This thread is being addressed to IM lovers. I am thinking specifically of Dave who has constantly endorsed and defended the use of musical devices in the assembly of saints. [BTW, Dave, will you allow me to reveal to CM readers your last name? I do not recall you ever mentioning your last name here as you did at the other site (which I would not label as "evil"). I think that you mentioned your last name briefly at the other site only when you challenged Mike to a debate. I could say more about that challenge, etc., but that's really not about this thread. And you edited it out shortly after.]

In many of our discussions with you regarding IM, you never fail to mention that "not using" musical instruments in the gathering of saints is a human or man-made tradition in the church. [By now I hope that you are convinced that "in the church" means "in the church of Christ" that you claim to be a member of.]

Whenever I mention to you that the worship of "the Virgin Mary, Mother of God" is a good example of man-made traditions, you immediately dismiss it in defense of IM as being commanded and authorized by God, as well as being pleasing to Him.

We have just heard of the beatification of the RCC pope John Paul II. (There are so many doctrinal errors in Roman Catholicism. I strongly believe that based on what the Holy Scripture teaches. What about you? Anyway, when time allows, there will be a lot of discussions in the future regarding these errors.)

Just to name a few from a long list of Catholic heresies and "human traditions," here they are:[/color]
  • Prayers for the dead
    </li>
  • Wax candles introduced in church in the 4th century
    </li>
  • Veneration of angels and dead saints
    </li>
  • Worship of Mary, "Mother of God"
    </li>
  • Prayers directed to Mary or dead saints
    </li>
  • Extreme Unction
    </li>
  • Doctrine of Purgatory in the 6th century
    </li>
  • Worship of the cross, images and relics
    </li>
  • Canonization of dead saints
    </li>
  • ... and so many, many more
    </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]It is apparent that the Roman Catholic Church has evolved through the centuries because of the evolution of these man-made traditions. Unlike in the very early centuries, the church that Christ established in about 33AD does not now resemble at all the ever-evolving Roman Catholic Church.

My point is that man-made traditions, including the ones listed above, which were of PAGAN origins, are matters that man-made tradition believers do and observe, instead of what these believers DO NOT DO NOR OBSERVE.

Do you see my point? How can you assert that by "NOT DOING, NOT OBSERVING, something," it is a tradition?

Instead, using musical instruments in the assembly of saints is THE man-made tradition. Recorded history reveals it.[/color]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Let us discuss civilly, please. No name-calling, no grammatical concerns, no personal attacks, no hostile remarks. Thanks!
Hey Donnie,
It is you who have called the Lord's church up for public ridicule. You could have done this the right way, by keeping it within the church. YOU have sinned, so don't blame it on some so-called change agents.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

May 5th, 2011, 5:46 am #17

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]No, Dave, it is the other way around. Because of our efforts to keep the body of Christ united as He prayed for unity, we are here to warn congregations that there are forces out there to get 'em and to be vigilant and be willing to learn from mistakes made by certain leaders who have succumbed to the will and enticements of such destructive forces.

Warning yet unaffected, peaceful congregations is not the same as calling "the Lord's church up for public ridicule."

You and the change agents are going against the grain, against the Lord's church -- and don't even know it!!! That's what's sad and unfortunate.[/color]
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Dave
Dave

May 5th, 2011, 12:51 pm #18

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]This thread is being addressed to IM lovers. I am thinking specifically of Dave who has constantly endorsed and defended the use of musical devices in the assembly of saints. [BTW, Dave, will you allow me to reveal to CM readers your last name? I do not recall you ever mentioning your last name here as you did at the other site (which I would not label as "evil"). I think that you mentioned your last name briefly at the other site only when you challenged Mike to a debate. I could say more about that challenge, etc., but that's really not about this thread. And you edited it out shortly after.]

In many of our discussions with you regarding IM, you never fail to mention that "not using" musical instruments in the gathering of saints is a human or man-made tradition in the church. [By now I hope that you are convinced that "in the church" means "in the church of Christ" that you claim to be a member of.]

Whenever I mention to you that the worship of "the Virgin Mary, Mother of God" is a good example of man-made traditions, you immediately dismiss it in defense of IM as being commanded and authorized by God, as well as being pleasing to Him.

We have just heard of the beatification of the RCC pope John Paul II. (There are so many doctrinal errors in Roman Catholicism. I strongly believe that based on what the Holy Scripture teaches. What about you? Anyway, when time allows, there will be a lot of discussions in the future regarding these errors.)

Just to name a few from a long list of Catholic heresies and "human traditions," here they are:[/color]
  • Prayers for the dead
    </li>
  • Wax candles introduced in church in the 4th century
    </li>
  • Veneration of angels and dead saints
    </li>
  • Worship of Mary, "Mother of God"
    </li>
  • Prayers directed to Mary or dead saints
    </li>
  • Extreme Unction
    </li>
  • Doctrine of Purgatory in the 6th century
    </li>
  • Worship of the cross, images and relics
    </li>
  • Canonization of dead saints
    </li>
  • ... and so many, many more
    </li>
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]It is apparent that the Roman Catholic Church has evolved through the centuries because of the evolution of these man-made traditions. Unlike in the very early centuries, the church that Christ established in about 33AD does not now resemble at all the ever-evolving Roman Catholic Church.

My point is that man-made traditions, including the ones listed above, which were of PAGAN origins, are matters that man-made tradition believers do and observe, instead of what these believers DO NOT DO NOR OBSERVE.

Do you see my point? How can you assert that by "NOT DOING, NOT OBSERVING, something," it is a tradition?

Instead, using musical instruments in the assembly of saints is THE man-made tradition. Recorded history reveals it.[/color]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Let us discuss civilly, please. No name-calling, no grammatical concerns, no personal attacks, no hostile remarks. Thanks!
Donnie, you know what you have done, and it is evident when you say...."Warning yet unaffected, peaceful congregations is not the same as calling "the Lord's church up for public ridicule.""

YES Donnie, you can call it "warning" all you want, but it is "slander" against the Lord's church.
When Paul counseled the churches and "warned" them, did he post the letter on every tree to get everyone's attention, including those outside the brotherhood?
Did he send the letter just to the congregation? Yes!
You posted your gripes and whinging here on this forum because you felt like you weren't being listened to, so Satan overtook you and you posted it for all the world to see.
You got your wish. Everyone sees it, and now that you have publicly sinned you need to publicly repent.

So make your print bold and big, blue, and red, disguise it and make it look sweet, but you three are the ones on the hot seat here, and not the churches or the elders.
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

May 5th, 2011, 12:53 pm #19

William,
I'm the one who is giving a hate message?
Oh no, William, for it is not I, but you and Ken and Donnie, who continually TRY and slander the Lord's church. YOU spew forth the vile hatred. Unfortunately, someone, like me, just happened to call your number on it. Such a public offense and sin is not against one or more persons, but against the Lord's church in general. All you have to do is repent, and you are off the hook.
Jesus forgive, if you ask. Jesus LOVES taking men and women off the hook for their sins. It is why He died for us.
Your move....
Just remember, this life is but a vapor, then you have eternity to deal with your decisions.
Yeah, Doom's Day is coming...sometime (maybe even May 12 as some say ). Don't you think you better worry about getting yourself straightened out first, Dave (remember, mote and beam)? Too many zealots are so full of a "god complex" and with pointing the finger at everyone else that they don't realize how spiritually ravaged their own souls are. Do your own fence-mending first, Dave; you have SO VERY MUCH to repair.
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Dr. Bill Crump
Dr. Bill Crump

May 5th, 2011, 6:07 pm #20

Donnie, you know what you have done, and it is evident when you say...."Warning yet unaffected, peaceful congregations is not the same as calling "the Lord's church up for public ridicule.""

YES Donnie, you can call it "warning" all you want, but it is "slander" against the Lord's church.
When Paul counseled the churches and "warned" them, did he post the letter on every tree to get everyone's attention, including those outside the brotherhood?
Did he send the letter just to the congregation? Yes!
You posted your gripes and whinging here on this forum because you felt like you weren't being listened to, so Satan overtook you and you posted it for all the world to see.
You got your wish. Everyone sees it, and now that you have publicly sinned you need to publicly repent.

So make your print bold and big, blue, and red, disguise it and make it look sweet, but you three are the ones on the hot seat here, and not the churches or the elders.
So Dave's desperate self-aggrandizement and finger-pointing will continue until...Doom's Day.
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