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The Man, The Myth, The LEGEND!
The Man, The Myth, The LEGEND!

May 30th, 2010, 5:50 pm #1

Holy, holy, holy! Lord God Almighty!
Early in the morning our song shall rise to Thee;
Holy, holy, holy, merciful and mighty!
God in three Persons, blessed Trinity!

Holy, holy, holy! All the saints adore Thee,
Casting down their golden crowns around the glassy sea;
Cherubim and seraphim falling down before Thee,
Who was, and is, and evermore shall be.

Holy, holy, holy! Though the darkness hide Thee,
Though the eye of sinful man Thy glory may not see;
Only Thou art holy; there is none beside Thee,
Perfect in powr, in love, and purity.

Holy, holy, holy! Lord God Almighty!
All Thy works shall praise Thy Name, in earth, and sky, and sea;
Holy, holy, holy; merciful and mighty!
God in three Persons, blessed Trinity!
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

May 31st, 2010, 4:58 am #2

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="new]Records indicate that the original version of the lyrics was written by Reginald Heber in 1826. I haven't completely researched the author's church affiliation (a bishop in the Church of England?), but....

In the hymnbooks used in churches of Christ ("Songs of the Church," "Great Songs of the Church," "Christian Hymns," "The Majestic Hymnal," "Praise for the Lord," etc.), the modified version of "Holy, Holy, Holy!" is as follows. Please note the differences in certain Old English words (Thy, Thou, art [for are], wast [for was], etc.), but especially in regard to the "Trinity" doctrine. The differences in this particular doctrine are highlighted:[/color]

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="new]Holy, Holy, Holy!

Holy, holy, holy! Lord God Almighty!
Early in the morning our song shall rise to Thee;
Holy , holy, holy! Merciful and mighty!
God over all, and blest eternally.
------ [Instead of: "God in three Persons, blessed Trinity!"]

Holy, holy, holy! All the saints adore Thee,
Casting down their golden crowns around the crystal sea;
Cherubim and seraphim falling down before Thee,
Who wast, and art, and evermore shalt be.

Holy, holy, holy! Tho' the darkness hide Thee,
Tho' the eye of sinful man Thy glory may not see;
Only Thou are holy! There is none beside Thee,
Perfect in pow'r in love and purity.

Holy, holy, holy! Lord God Almighty!
All thy works shall praise Thy name, in earth and sky and sea;
Holy, holy, holy! Merciful and mighty!
God over all, and blest eternally.
------ [Instead of: "God in three Persons, blessed Trinity!"]

Has anyone else noticed the difference and wondered why? What was it about the publishers and compilers of hymns in past generations in the church? How would those compilers differ with modern or post-modern compilers of songs that are being sung in contemporary assemblies these days? Doctrinally speaking, i.e.? Oh, yeah, I can think of several money-making "Contemporary Christian Music" of Michael J. Smith, et al, sung as "sacred hymns" in certain congregations of the church!!! [/color]
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on May 31st, 2010, 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Man, The Myth, The LEGEND!
The Man, The Myth, The LEGEND!

June 1st, 2010, 11:00 pm #3

Can't believe that those folks ruined the hymn.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

June 2nd, 2010, 12:23 am #4

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Moon, the Man:

One change that is NOT progressive and destructive!!! A back-to-the-Bible change that negates the Catholic-originated and Protestant-propagated Trinity doctrine should be welcomed by real truth-seekers.[/color]
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Dave
Dave

June 7th, 2010, 5:53 pm #5

Both versions sound wonderful to me. Both versions are Scripturally sound.
You still trying to slice that pie Donnie? Now your reply will state 'God is NOT in three persons. He is One!'

And then I will say that you are right. Three persons being One.
You guys hang around. There is much to learn, and I have plenty of time.
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Donnie
Donnie

June 7th, 2010, 7:52 pm #6

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

The question you missed was: Why did the publishers or compilers of hymns from generations past go through all the trouble of making the correction if there was no difference between: (a) the Catholic/papal-originated doctrine of God in "three persons" and (b) what the Scripture teaches regarding God's nature?

The modification was INTENTIONAL. The change, to my knowledge, is found only in the various hymnbooks used in churches of Christ.

Even in "Praise for the Lord" [copyright @ 1992], not so long ago, the hymn contains the corrected version.

Oh, there's no question that both versions may "sound wonderful." But there's a colossal difference in making an assumption of "three persons" and the truth that says NOTHING of the "three persons."

The assumption reminds me of another doctrine invented by the Roman Catholic Church and the papacy that in thinking of a "familial relationship" [the way that the finite mind thinks of "family"], the "Mother" must be present to complete that relationship between the Father and the Son. Hence, the worship of "the Virgin Mary -- Mother of God."

I wonder, Dave, if you also follow that line of thinking, i.e., with regard to the "Mother of God" -- that sounds wonderful, too, when we think of a "family." Right, Dav?[/color]
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Ken Sublett
Ken Sublett

June 7th, 2010, 9:07 pm #7

I have posted the first letter and then the second one after lots of people served a writ declaring them beyond the pale and would be fought Word against Tutu.

http://www.piney.com/A.and.M.Church.Of. ... ental.html

These Satanic attacks are always mounted by preachers who have readhed the highest level of their incompetence and ignorance. It takes LOTS of degrees to get THAT ignorant.
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Dave
Dave

June 9th, 2010, 2:58 am #8

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

The question you missed was: Why did the publishers or compilers of hymns from generations past go through all the trouble of making the correction if there was no difference between: (a) the Catholic/papal-originated doctrine of God in "three persons" and (b) what the Scripture teaches regarding God's nature?

The modification was INTENTIONAL. The change, to my knowledge, is found only in the various hymnbooks used in churches of Christ.

Even in "Praise for the Lord" [copyright @ 1992], not so long ago, the hymn contains the corrected version.

Oh, there's no question that both versions may "sound wonderful." But there's a colossal difference in making an assumption of "three persons" and the truth that says NOTHING of the "three persons."

The assumption reminds me of another doctrine invented by the Roman Catholic Church and the papacy that in thinking of a "familial relationship" [the way that the finite mind thinks of "family"], the "Mother" must be present to complete that relationship between the Father and the Son. Hence, the worship of "the Virgin Mary -- Mother of God."

I wonder, Dave, if you also follow that line of thinking, i.e., with regard to the "Mother of God" -- that sounds wonderful, too, when we think of a "family." Right, Dav?[/color]
Matthew 27
45From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over all the land. 46About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

Hey Donnie, was Jesus talking to Himself there when He called out to God, His Father?
So how many PERSONS are we speaking of there?
More than one, for sure.

John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth

When you see "OF the One and Only," and "who came FROM the Father" you see that Jesus is part of God, but He came FROM God.

Yes, Donnie, Three Persons, but One.

But versions are Scriptural, unless you care to show your proof from Donnie Cruz's version of the Bible.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

June 9th, 2010, 4:01 am #9

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Dave,

From Matthew's and John's accounts, my basic math tells me: TWO. I was looking very intently for:

(1) the Spirit OF the Father (Matt. 10:20)

------------ and --------------
(2) the Spirit OF Jesus Christ (Phil. 1:19)

. . . speaking to or communicating with ... what was that "third person" you made up?

So that you may clearly understand, please read very carefully the two passages I referenced.[/color]
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Anonymous
Anonymous

June 9th, 2010, 12:38 pm #10

Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the FATHER and of the SON and of the HOLY SPIRIT,

from the REAL Word of God, not yours Donnie, how many are capitalized there?
1?
2?
3?

This is from the mouth of Jesus. Jesus wanted us to know that there was one, as you say, so you may clearly undertstand, so Jesus COMMUNICATED three there. Nothing confusing about that. Did Jesus speak of the Spirit of Jesus there? What about the Spirit of the Father? No! Three but ONE.
Just to CLEARLY COMMUNICATE, yes Donnie, all of these three are SPIRITS. What would you call your soul? Is it something physical like a heart? No. Most everyone will die one day (not everyone will see death), and when we do, what is left after the body goes back to dust? The spirit, or the soul.


Donnie, you and Ken always try to hide the Word underneath your clever language. God's Word will not be hidden! You can't keep it down.

Matthew 10
19 But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; 20 for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.

Phillipians 1
19 For I know that this will turn out for my deliverance through your prayer and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ

Yes Donnie, if we are made in the image of God, then OF COURSE, they are all Spirits. We are all have a spirit (soul) too. God is a Spirit, Jesus is a Spirit, the Holy Spirit is a Spirit.

John 4:24 (King James Version
24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

THREE, but ONE!

Matthew 28 CLEARLY STATES three, yet we know from John 1 that they are One.
YES Donnie, God in Three Persons, is right. Not right according to Cruz 23, verse whatever, but right according to the Word of God.....and that is all that counts.
Donnie, just to note......if you would allow the Spirit of Christ to indwell in you, this would not be so hard. Keep fighting Him, and you will never understand it.
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