Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

December 24th, 2012, 8:12 pm #41

In Rev 1 Jesus is described as being the "faithful witness" What follows is the testimony of the faithful witness as to the true spiritual health and status of churches named in the following chapters and verses. We are likewise to be faithful and true witnesses to the spiritual health of congregations if we follow this example. This is particularly true if we are a minister or teacher or someone of influence in a congregation. Consider further that the faithful witness points out faults and weaknesses and pictures them as serious. Respect for Gods revelation would be paramount in this function. Consider that we can and should measure those who influence us by the word and the fruits of their actions. Consider also that those who lack experience and a thorough grounding in the word of God can not make themselves a true and faithful witness. This is a great shortcoming of promoting young men to a position of great influence who do have a knowledge of pop psychology and church growth ideas but no grounding in Gods word. While I don't know the specific persons mentioned in this thread the measure found in Revelation is a good one and should be applied to anyone of influence in the Lords church.

Consider the comment made by God in Rev 12 that Satan will make war on the church and those that possess the testimony of Jesus Christ. It is a serious spiritual matter and we have every right to measure actions of those of influence by the word of God.

Comments welcome
Madison makes a point of telling everyone what they are doing: they publically confessed that they intended to let the oldsters THINK that they were on a train to Birmingham but WE gonna switch the cars and send them to Lexington CAUSE that's what we gonna do.

The boasted about turning the church into "a theater for holy entertainment" and their antics have been spread all around the world.

They were one of the first to boast of having a musical worship team. They knew and planned that they would sow massive discord and take away the spiritual family of anyone who stood in their way. They had a Purpose Driven church which is a Purpose Driven Cult. They calculated that they could lose all of those owners but make it up by sucking in people who wanted to be musically entertained and not preached to.

Because their influence has been used around the world and they pretend that "God hath not said" and that influence has afflicted all of us, everyone who understands that the PATTERN is to teach that which has been taught and NO "programs" has a right to post Scripture which proves that they are wrong. To a large extent, while those who oppose have been treated with great abuse, they have had less influence than they hoped and increasingly people are not entertained by wimpy singy-clappy people trying to MIND ALTER with the use of music and do not think they are very talented.

So, everyone has a right to teach that which has been taught and would be remiss if they didn't. Lacking a pulpit financed with extorted money (Paul's teaching) CM and others have to finance their own effort.

In the Campbell pattern all "christian" division and slaughter of people could cease if everyone obeyed the pattern to TEACH the Word and not try to fill in the blanks.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

December 24th, 2012, 8:39 pm #42

Stop Gossip in the Church

by Bryant Evans on April 16, 2010


Do church members gossip? Do they gossip about each other? I think we know the answer. And I think we know that all of us have been guilty of gossip at some time. But we also know that gossip is a horrendous habit that can assault, crush and destroy even the strongest believer.

Gossip is particularly damaging in the local church because people are often more open with fellow Christians about their weaknesses and needs. And because those weaknesses are out in the open it may be that gossip is more common in the church than anywhere else. A frightening thought wouldnt you say?

Just think for a moment. How many people have been the target of gossip from within the church? How many have been hurt, even mortally wounded by the careless comments of another? Too many I am sure.

Gossip Is A Real Problem

Regardless of why, loose talk hurts. Victims of the gossipers tongue first of all feel embarrassment that their problems are now public. No one wants their dirty laundry tossed about before others.

After the shame the victim feels betrayed or let down by the person in whom they confided. We imagine how Jesus felt when betrayed and denied by Judas and then Peter. We also remember our own pain when someone betrays us. It hurts badly.

Gossip destroys influence. Even strong, mature Christians deal with serious shortcomings daily (Romans 3:23). Revealing private details of their struggles can harm others looking to them for strength.

But most of all, gossip is a problem because it is a sin. It violates the Gold Rule of Matthew 7:12 and Luke 6:31. It violates our Lords command to love one another (John 13:34; Romans 12:10; 1 John 3:11). Often the gossip is untrue which adds to its sinfulness. Gossip is simply wrong (1 Timothy 5:13; 2 Thessalonians 3:11 .

Gossip In the Church

Well, we expect gossip at the office. We expect it at the ballpark. We even expect it at a PTA meeting or during a telephone call with a friend. But we do not expect it at church.

Gossip seems to occur in the church for several reasons and not all of them are bad. In fact the motive may be noble but the outcome is still sinful.

Stop Gossip Intended to Help

Sometimes, people think they are helping by telling another about someones problem.

I was sure glad to see Sandra at worship this morning.

Me too. I know shes been struggling recently, came the reply, which unfortunately did not end there. Sandra and Bill have been fighting a lot. I heard he was a bit too friendly with a girl at work. Of course Sandra has been busy with her new job. I guess she just needs to spend more time with him.

Now probably, our speaker really thinks she is helping by briefing another Christian on how to help Sandra. After all, the church is a family and we all work together to encourage and exhort one another. But there was very little help here. Even assuming that what the speaker said was true, this did nothing to encourage or assist Sandra. Instead, both she and Bill are objects of curiosity and, in the case of Bill, scorn.

Stop Gossip Intended to Apply the Lesson

Every preacher has experienced it. It usually occurs at the door of the church where people are speaking to the preacher as they leave the assembly.

It goes like this:

That was a fine lesson on watching your language. I know certain people have a problem with that, he says while nodding toward a brother in Christ.

Some take the lesson and use it to hammer someone else. Its concerning to me that the message means so little to the hearers and that they can so quickly brush it off and point it at someone else.

Anyway you cut it and whatever motive you attach to it, it is still gossip.

Stop Gossip Thats Just Plain Gossip

Of course the old reasons for gossip are still present even in the church. Envy, covetousness, malice and jealousy cause gossip in and out of the body of Christ. Paul told the Galatians that these things are works of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21). They have no place in the life of the Christian. Gossip is but one outcome of such characteristics. With Gods changing power we can eliminate such from our lives.

Idle talk is perhaps the single most common cause of gossip. We dont intend to hurt anyone and we would never knowingly gossip about a brother or sister, but we do. I guess we assume the information is known or that the person we are speaking to is close enough and dear enough that we can talk about things with them. Such an assumption is usually wrong.

Whatever the reason, gossip is wrong and we must do all we can to stop gossip.

Stop Gossip by Tightening Loose Tongues

Here are five ideas to help but the brakes on waging tongues. As always, start with self first.
1.Make a conscious effort to monitor your own words. Actively listen to yourself. Make careful note of what you talk about, who you talk about and precisely what you say. Ensure that your words are Godly words that directly build-up, not tear down.
2.Make a conscious effort to monitor your own hearing. What ever comes into your mind makes an impression. Dont listen to the juicy details about someone you know. Either move the conversation to a new subject or move along yourself.
3.Speak out to stop gossip. There is no need to be nasty but just let people know you will not be a party to gossip. It might be easier to tell your close friends before gossip begins that you are trying to break a bad habit. When the talk starts, interrupt and remind people that youd rather not talk about other people.
4.Assume unflattering stories are false. When you hear something tawdry about someone do you assume it is true? What if we all just assumed that the gossip was false? Would that slow things down?
5.Let gossip end with you. What if every piece of gossip depended upon you? Would it live or die? Slay gossip by refusing to repeat it. Keep count for the next week. How many pieces of gossip did you kill? You might be surprised.

Gossip is incredibly common and incredibly destructive. There is no place for gossip anywhere but especially in the church where are brothers and sisters and servants of the Most High. Do your part to squelch wagging tongues!

http://preachersstudyblog.com/2010/04/s ... he-church/
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Rocky,

"Stop Gossip in the Church" would make an excellent separate thread, and you might be interested in initiating that thread.

Here at CM, we don't point out, e.g., that sister Martha attends the assembly only twice a year: on "Easter Sunday" and on Sunday Christmas eve.

Scripture made a good point earlier about the distinction between gossip and talk; presented possible examples of gossip but also stressed the importance of accurate reporting.

It might be of interest to the reader that based on searches of certain key words related to the subject matter of "gossip," the KJV reveals the following:

(1) 0 = no. of times "gossip" appears
(2) 20 = no. of times "report" or "reported" appears
(3) 1 = "evil report" (2 Cor. 6:8)
(4) 8 = "good report" (Heb. 11:2,39; I Tim. 3:7; 2 Cor. 6:8; etc.)
(5) 1 = "honest report" (Acts 6:3)
(6) 18 = "conversation"
(7) 2 = "good conversation" (Jas. 3:13; I Peter 3:16)

Let CM know if it is inaccurately reporting certain events at Madison concerning the instrumental music scheme game; the appointment of the now-former "youth minister" as it "senior minister"; the "entertainment" factor in the "grow-the-church" scheme; in using Rick Warren's Community Church manual as its guide; etc.; etc. These are "brotherhood" or "fellowship" issues.[/color]
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Rocky
Rocky

December 26th, 2012, 2:57 pm #43

I heard they appointed a new senior minister/pastor at Madison yesterday, any news on who? Could this guy return them to the old paths?

The Senior Preaching Pastor claims that "I vote with the elders because I am the Authoratative Teacher." They claim the role of Jesus as both Rabbi and Mediator-Intercessor

Parasites: all religious operatives such as the Priests and Levites were called Parasites. A parasite specificially identifies speakers, singers, instrument players and actors.

http://www.piney.com/Robert.Ballard.Are ... sites.html

http://www.piney.com/Preaching.for.Pay.and.Simony.html

Donnie said in his first post:

"It is not our intent to make this thread into a gossip column...."


***************************


Donnie, I was only trying to help. I have not pointed a finger at anyone. I know when dealing with Church gossip that "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". This is my final post on this matter. Thanks.



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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

December 27th, 2012, 5:32 am #44

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]At times I'm just not a good mind-reader.[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

December 28th, 2012, 5:41 am #45

I heard they appointed a new senior minister/pastor at Madison yesterday, any news on who? Could this guy return them to the old paths?

The Senior Preaching Pastor claims that "I vote with the elders because I am the Authoratative Teacher." They claim the role of Jesus as both Rabbi and Mediator-Intercessor

Parasites: all religious operatives such as the Priests and Levites were called Parasites. A parasite specificially identifies speakers, singers, instrument players and actors.

http://www.piney.com/Robert.Ballard.Are ... sites.html

http://www.piney.com/Preaching.for.Pay.and.Simony.html

Amalgamation of Christianity with Paganism and Its Results

<table width="90%" border="1" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="2"><tr><td valign="top">
Christian Form
</td><td valign="top">
Pagan Practice
</td><td valign="top">
Unfortunate Results
</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">
Jesus is the Son of God
</td><td valign="top">
The Corn Mother is God
</td><td valign="top">
Mary is the Mother of God
</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">
Jesus is the Son of God
</td><td valign="top">
The Sun is God
</td><td valign="top">
Jesus is the Sun God
</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">
Church is our Model
</td><td valign="top">
The Community is our Model
</td><td valign="top">
Model the Church after the Community
</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">
We are saved by Grace
</td><td valign="top">
Works do not indicate Salvation
</td><td valign="top">
Grace has nothing to do with Works
</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">
The Church is Unique
</td><td valign="top">
I feel uncomfortable being unique
</td><td valign="top">
Make the church like Everything else
</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">
Congregation likes the preacher
</td><td valign="top">
Elders allow havoc
</td><td valign="top">
Get another preacher
</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">
Church Growth depends on many factors
</td><td valign="top">
There aren't but two salvation issues
</td><td valign="top">
Build the church on two issues
</td></tr></table>



[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]The above chart has already been posted by Scripture under this thread: "Was Jesus Born on Dec. 25? This article says no!" ... asking for comments. I find the chart worth repeating here as it clearly relates to the Madison situation.[/color]

[Published without Scripture's permission yet.]
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Scripture
Scripture

December 28th, 2012, 5:55 am #46

Thanks for redesigning the chart--I'm just getting used to the HTML commands! They're great to use!
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Anonymous
Anonymous

December 28th, 2012, 6:10 am #47

Amalgamation of Christianity with Paganism and Its Results

<table width="90%" border="1" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="2"><tr><td valign="top">
Christian Form
</td><td valign="top">
Pagan Practice
</td><td valign="top">
Unfortunate Results
</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">
Jesus is the Son of God
</td><td valign="top">
The Corn Mother is God
</td><td valign="top">
Mary is the Mother of God
</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">
Jesus is the Son of God
</td><td valign="top">
The Sun is God
</td><td valign="top">
Jesus is the Sun God
</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">
Church is our Model
</td><td valign="top">
The Community is our Model
</td><td valign="top">
Model the Church after the Community
</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">
We are saved by Grace
</td><td valign="top">
Works do not indicate Salvation
</td><td valign="top">
Grace has nothing to do with Works
</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">
The Church is Unique
</td><td valign="top">
I feel uncomfortable being unique
</td><td valign="top">
Make the church like Everything else
</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">
Congregation likes the preacher
</td><td valign="top">
Elders allow havoc
</td><td valign="top">
Get another preacher
</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">
Church Growth depends on many factors
</td><td valign="top">
There aren't but two salvation issues
</td><td valign="top">
Build the church on two issues
</td></tr></table>



[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]The above chart has already been posted by Scripture under this thread: "Was Jesus Born on Dec. 25? This article says no!" ... asking for comments. I find the chart worth repeating here as it clearly relates to the Madison situation.[/color]

[Published without Scripture's permission yet.]
I stubbled upon this site looking for a contact number for the Madison church. I have been sadden and somewhat entertained by the dialogue found in its threads and post. But this thread I found especially of interest since I know the new minister or know of him at least.
I think you will be please with his hearts and approach, after all he was trained at one of your universities, Freed-Hardeman. I know he has challenged students for years to practice true Christ-like discipleship and challenge the status quo of traditional thinking. I can only assume he will bring the same challenges to this new arena.

I personally wished I was close enough to attend and be a part of this new chapter of Madison's history. Buckle up its going to be exciting and fresh.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

December 28th, 2012, 6:20 am #48

Thanks for redesigning the chart--I'm just getting used to the HTML commands! They're great to use!
[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]Thanks for the "grant." Yes, HTML is powerful and fun. I'm glad that you're learning and getting used to HTML very rapidly. It's good that we have the option to click the "Preview" button first before publishing.

CM greatly appreciates your efforts and refreshing contributions.[/color]

++++++++++++

That was meant to be a response to Scripture from Donnie.
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on December 28th, 2012, 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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B
B

December 28th, 2012, 3:44 pm #49

I stubbled upon this site looking for a contact number for the Madison church. I have been sadden and somewhat entertained by the dialogue found in its threads and post. But this thread I found especially of interest since I know the new minister or know of him at least.
I think you will be please with his hearts and approach, after all he was trained at one of your universities, Freed-Hardeman. I know he has challenged students for years to practice true Christ-like discipleship and challenge the status quo of traditional thinking. I can only assume he will bring the same challenges to this new arena.

I personally wished I was close enough to attend and be a part of this new chapter of Madison's history. Buckle up its going to be exciting and fresh.
"Anonymous" says that the new minister will "challenge the status quo of traditional thinking."

In the church of Christ, the traditional thinking is to worship God "in spirit and in truth." So we wonder just exactly how "exciting and fresh" this forthcoming chapter in Madison's history is going to be. Of course, I don't recall Jesus or His apostles ever instructing us to do all we can to make the Gospel and hence worship "exciting and fresh" (as if the Gospel and worship per se could ever really grow dull and stale) or to challenge their status quo or anything else about them. Evidently Jesus and His apostles thought that the Gospel and worship would always remain fresh in the hearts of true believers; evidently those who challenge the "traditional thinking" of the Gospel and worship think otherwise. But I guess the true traditions of the Gospel and worship could indeed grow dull and stale in the hearts of malcontents and those who rebel against the teachings of Christ and His apostles. Such malcontents would certainly seek someone who could spice up the Gospel and worship with the entertaining, worldly agenda of man to draw in the crowds.
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Scripture
Scripture

December 28th, 2012, 6:21 pm #50

I stubbled upon this site looking for a contact number for the Madison church. I have been sadden and somewhat entertained by the dialogue found in its threads and post. But this thread I found especially of interest since I know the new minister or know of him at least.
I think you will be please with his hearts and approach, after all he was trained at one of your universities, Freed-Hardeman. I know he has challenged students for years to practice true Christ-like discipleship and challenge the status quo of traditional thinking. I can only assume he will bring the same challenges to this new arena.

I personally wished I was close enough to attend and be a part of this new chapter of Madison's history. Buckle up its going to be exciting and fresh.
That will be a step away from one age group to an older one. Let's hope that's not a "bridge too far."

I'm sure its a challenge for the speaking minister to keep his focus on the Word, and not be distracted by all the input that will come his way. This can be a wonderful growth period from a part to the whole. Let's ask that all involved--those who profess to lead and those who contribute in any way--will help create a successful tenure. Although he must keep his mind on the Word, he must also interface that Word with the real-life situation around him.

Jesus had the ASK formula--ASK and you will receive, SEEK and you will find, KNOCK and it will be opened for you.
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