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December 20th, 2012, 8:34 pm #31

Remember that this forum was started because Madison was one of the first churches to fall as a result of Shelly and Acthley who said "we let our youth hear lots of Christian Bands (a blasphemy) to teach them to leave our movement. Madison has been at it for the normal expected time to rout out all of the mothers and fathers and BRAND ALTER the youth using music: all recorded history knows that you can even use music to cause women to betray their own mothers.

Madison is a Poster Child: otherwise, dusting feet would be good advice. It is important to see the PATTERNISM Lucifer (the singing and harp playing prostitute in the garden of Eden) uses to make the lambs dumb before the slaughter. Here is some Hebrews 12 in Latin defining how the world was SHAKEN at Mount Sinai and was/is scheduled to be repeated when the Babylon Mother of Harlots (Rev 17) uses "lusted after fruits" as speakers, singers and instrument players whom John calls SORCERERS (Rev 18) and WILL BE cast alive into the lake of fire.

Most "clergy" will not grasp it and the DISCORDERS won't grasp it until the SOP (Psallo) Word gets them indwelled by Satan and having failed will have to do the Judas maneuver. They do the whiney-boyling "Je-Zeus paid it all" but THEY want to get paid to slander Jesus who TAUGHT it all.



These are some of the qualities the modifying forces value:

Noise, not Quiet Meditation
Novelty, not Tested Pattern
Feeling, not Logic
Conformity, not Distinction
Movement, not stability
Synopsis , not depth
Youth, not experience

There may be others, and an argument can be made for or against these values.

But, in the end, this age will pass and another will take its place. A later age will once gain pick up the qualities of meditation, tested patatern, logic, stability, depth, and experience.

The instability in the churches at the present time will continue to spread, both from and into the culture, until it reaches an unsustainable lack of equilibrium--then the forces of stability will once gain show their power. This will be the New Age of Rediscovery, and it will bring peace and security to the future.

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

December 21st, 2012, 2:07 am #32

I heard they appointed a new senior minister/pastor at Madison yesterday, any news on who? Could this guy return them to the old paths?

The Senior Preaching Pastor claims that "I vote with the elders because I am the Authoratative Teacher." They claim the role of Jesus as both Rabbi and Mediator-Intercessor

Parasites: all religious operatives such as the Priests and Levites were called Parasites. A parasite specificially identifies speakers, singers, instrument players and actors.

http://www.piney.com/Robert.Ballard.Are ... sites.html

http://www.piney.com/Preaching.for.Pay.and.Simony.html

Scripture is so certain and historic scholarship agrees that when we approach God it must be in reverence and godly fear. Worship literally means to fall on your face or act like a dog licking the master's boots. Only God can tell us why men lie about all revealed knowledge and lust to perform rituals which they KNOW reflects on their persona and deliberately sows discord. Even when they have driven weeping widows out they cannot stop adding blow after blow after blow. This has to be a supernatural outbreak. Paul defined worship as absolutely demanding that you sacrifice or "burn up" al of your private opinions (Rom 14) and seeking pleasure (all of the hypocritic arts and crafts) so that you can worship IN THE SPIRIT (as Jesus restricted it) and rational or devoted to TRUTH which is the Word of God.

Romans 12:1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
YE present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God,
.....which is your reasonable service.
.....tn logikn latreian humn:


First, the body of flesh must be sacrificed or burned up:

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christs have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.


Then, it is possible to engage in RATIONAL or SPIRITUAL worship:

Latin: Romans 12.1 obsecro itaque vos fratres per misericordiam Dei ut exhibeatis corpora vestra hostiamviventemsanctam Deo placentem rationabile obsequium vestrum

Ratinblis , e, adj. ratio (post-Aug.; = rationalis, which is in better use), I. reasonable, rational: he pure milk of reason, id. 1 Pet. 2, 2: sententia vera et rationabilis,
Sententa , ae, f. for sentientia, from sentio, I. a way of thinking, opinion, judgment, sentiment; a purpose, determination, decision, will, etc.
I. Transf., of words, discourse, etc., sense, meaning, signification, idea, notion, etc.
1. In gen., a thought expressed in WORDS; a sentence, period: dum de singulis sententiis breviter disputo




2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural [instinctive] brute [Anti-Logical] brute beasts, [Zoon, Zao, Zoe]
.....made to be taken and destroyed,
.....speak evil of the things that they understand not; [through lack of knowledge]
.....and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

Natural: G5446 phusikos foo-see-kos' From G5449 [natural descent] ; physical, that is, (by implication) instinctive:--natural. Compare G5591
III. later, belonging to occult laws of nature, magical, ph. pharmaka spells [speakers, singers, instrument players Rev 18] or amulets, Alex. Trall.1.15; phusikois khrsthai Gp.2.18.8; ph. therapeia ib.2.42.3; ph. daktulioi Sch.Ar.Pl.884. Adv. -ks Gp.9.1.5.

su_kophant-e , prosecute vexatiously, blackmail, accuse falsely, seek occasion against us, oppress us.extort by false charges or threats ay verbal traps for one, ton rhtora boulomenos dikais


Bruit Beasts are ANTI-LOGOS and therefore ANTI-CHRIST: G249 alogos [Anti-Logical] al'-og-os From G1 (as a negative particle) and G3056 ; irrational:--brute, unreasonable. alogos , on,

That's why all of this means nothing to them or to those they can help fall into the PIT meaning hell.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

December 21st, 2012, 2:30 am #33

One thing he [new pulpit minister] did on one Sunday late worship was to instruct everyone to turn around during the Lord's Supper and tell what kind of things happened in their lives during the week. This was apparently an attempt to kill the quiet and get everyone into everyone else's business [just one interpretation]. By the way, QUIET is not something that can be tolerated in this New York Minute culture.

No one did what he suggested--they just continued to sit and honored the Lord's Supper as usual. He was ignored. What will be interesting is that as weekly pulpit minister, how many of these unusual requests will have to be done until there is some elder intervention. Pulpit minister, watch out!

I think we may see more of this--during the Lord's Supper getting up and praying with small groups in the assembly. Or this may happen at other quieter moments.

Clapping is done by only a small minority during singing--I'm saying only about 10 percent. I noticed a previous pulpit minister, who sitting in the audience two or three years ago never clapped--just his wife.

Members in the assembly are not just that malleable. Look toward many refusing to take part in these displays. Get ready for the action! Of course, the tactic of the "truly spiritual" [in their opinion] is to wait, and keep the frog in the warming pan.
One thing he [new pulpit minister] did on one Sunday late worship was to instruct everyone to turn around during the Lord's Supper and tell what kind of things happened in their lives during the week. This was apparently an attempt to kill the quiet and get everyone into everyone else's business [just one interpretation]. By the way, QUIET is not something that can be tolerated in this New York Minute culture.

Perhaps this is a problem with the "youngers" being the pastor teachers and not APT to teach the Word. I have heard lots of people saying that the "can't keep his mouth shut" is making them year for a more structured liturgy. I had to check myself out of the sandbox or check myself into an institution.

Habakkuk 2:19 Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach [D
avid's Lyre]! Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it.
Habakkuk 2:20 But the LORD is in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him.

God moves the gate into the Throne Rome and I don't think you can get self-speak sermons or effeminate singing and acting past the Levites commanded to strike you dead.

This proves that he has never read the reason for the Lord's Supper: it is to show forth or teach the DEATH of Jesus. If you confess that Jesus died then the rest of the juvenile self-speak will just be silenced. How can he represent the LOGOS when he does not know the meaning of the word?

After All Christ in Isaiah 58 OUTLAWED seeking your own pleasure or speaking your own words. Romans 14 outlaws doubtful disputations or discussion of YOUR OPINIONS.

Maybe someone should tell them that hand clapping was almost universally to hiss the LOOSER. Clearly Jesus is the looser when the preacher has to invent games to detract from thinking about Jesus and what HE did and says. The Word for clapping in the Hebrew is also use to translate VOMIT. Or "exploding the looser out of the theater.

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Rocky
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December 21st, 2012, 9:40 pm #34

I heard they appointed a new senior minister/pastor at Madison yesterday, any news on who? Could this guy return them to the old paths?

The Senior Preaching Pastor claims that "I vote with the elders because I am the Authoratative Teacher." They claim the role of Jesus as both Rabbi and Mediator-Intercessor

Parasites: all religious operatives such as the Priests and Levites were called Parasites. A parasite specificially identifies speakers, singers, instrument players and actors.

http://www.piney.com/Robert.Ballard.Are ... sites.html

http://www.piney.com/Preaching.for.Pay.and.Simony.html

Question: "What does the Bible say about gossip?"

Answer: The Hebrew word translated gossip in the Old Testament is defined as one who reveals secrets, one who goes about as a talebearer or scandal-monger. A gossiper is a person who has privileged information about people and proceeds to reveal that information to those who have no business knowing it. Gossip is distinguished from sharing information in two ways:

1. Intent. Gossipers often have the goal of building themselves up by making others look bad and exalting themselves as some kind of repositories of knowledge.

2. The type of information shared. Gossipers speak of the faults and failings of others, or reveal potentially embarrassing or shameful details regarding the lives of others without their knowledge or approval. Even if they mean no harm, it is still gossip.

In the book of Romans, Paul reveals the sinful nature and lawlessness of mankind, stating how God poured out His wrath on those who rejected His laws. Because they had turned away from God's instruction and guidance, He gave them over to their sinful natures. The list of sins includes gossips and slanderers (Romans 1:29b-32). We see from this passage how serious the sin of gossip is and that it characterizes those who are under Gods wrath.

Another group who were (and still are today) known for indulging in gossip is widows. Paul cautions widows against entertaining the habit of gossip and of being idle. These women are described as gossips and busybodies, saying things they ought not to (1 Timothy 5:12-13). Because women tend to spend a lot of time in each other's homes and work closely with other women, they hear and observe situations which can become distorted, especially when repeated over and over. Paul states that widows get into the habit of going from home to home, looking for something to occupy their idleness. Idle hands are the devil's workshop, and God cautions against allowing idleness to enter our lives. A gossip betrays a confidence; so avoid a man [or woman] who talks too much (Proverbs 20:19).

Women are certainly not the only ones who have been found guilty of gossip. Anyone can engage in gossip simply by repeating something heard in confidence. The book of Proverbs has a long list of verses that cover the dangers of gossip and the potential hurt that results from it. A man who lacks judgment derides his neighbor, but a man of understanding holds his tongue. A gossip betrays a confidence, but a trustworthy man keeps a secret (Proverbs 11:12-13).

The Bible tells us that a perverse man stirs up dissension, and a gossip separates close friends (Proverbs 16:28). Many a friendship has been ruined over a misunderstanding that started with gossip. Those who engage in this behavior do nothing but stir up trouble and cause anger, bitterness, and pain among friends. Sadly, some people thrive on this and look for opportunities to destroy others. And when such people are confronted, they deny the allegations and answer with excuses and rationalizations. Rather than admit wrongdoing, they blame someone else or attempt to minimize the seriousness of the sin. A fool's mouth is his undoing, and his lips are a snare to his soul. The words of a gossip are like choice morsels; they go down to a man's inmost parts (Proverbs 18:7-8).

Those who guard their tongues keep themselves from calamity (Proverbs 21:23). So we must guard our tongues and refrain from the sinful act of gossip. If we surrender our natural desires to the Lord, He will help us to remain righteous. May we all follow the Bibles teaching on gossip by keeping our mouths shut unless it is necessary and appropriate to speak.

http://www.gotquestions.org/gossip-Bible.html
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

December 21st, 2012, 10:33 pm #35

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]I find it interesting that you termed it "minister/pastor."

Was that intended to include "'pastor' in the church of Christ" in the discussion [which, by the way, is what we're hearing more and more of]?

Or, was that a reminder to members of the church of Christ that a local evangelist (at the same time) can hold an office as one of the congregation's group of pastors or elders? That the church believes, not just in one pastor or elder serving, but in the plurality of pastors or elders leading the local church?

Another interesting point is in your question of -- "Could this guy return them to the old paths?" -- which leads to a more interesting question: Does the current leadership even know "the old paths"?[/color]

_____________________________


[color=#FF0000" size="3" face="times][It is not our intent to make this thread into a gossip column. Rather, we desire that we publish the truth to serve as "lessons learned" as we combat the efforts of change agents operating in the brotherhood, who are busily creating confusion and division among congregations (esp. "mega" ones) while changing and "transforming" (converting) them into Saddleback-style Community Churches. Also, sorry, I wasn't in attendance when the announcement was made; but we're giving this thread the "benefit."][/color]
We are just trying to tell you why in ALL churches invaded by the musical performers the godly people will flee or sit on their hands suffering the discord or afflictions or great tribulations all of the godly will have to endure.

Hippolytus Book V - The Refutation of All Heresies - Satan Worship

http://www.piney.com/FathHippolAnt5.html

They rashly assume in this manner, that whatsoever things have been said and done by all men, (may be made to harmonize) with their own particular mental view, alleging that ALL things become spiritual. Whence likewise they assert, that those exhibiting themselves in theatres,not even these say or do anything without premeditation.

Therefore, he says, when, on the people assembling in the theatres, any one enters clad in a remarkable robe, carrying a harp and playing a tune (upon it, accompanying it) with a song of the great mysteries, he speaks as follows, not knowing what he says:

"Whether (thou art) the race of Saturn (Satans) or happy Jupiter, or mighty Rhea (ZOE, Eve), Hail, Attis, gloomy mutilation of Rhea. Assyrians style thee thrice-longed-for Adonis, and the whole of Egypt (calls thee) Osiris, celestial horn of the moon; [The bull, Apis, at Sinai] Greeks denominate (thee) Wisdom; Samothracians, venerable Adam; Haemonians, Corybas; and them Phrygians (name thee) at one time Papa, at another time Corpse, or God, or Fruitless, or Aipolos, or green Ear of Corn that has been reaped, or whom the very fertile Amygdalus produced-a man, a musician."

This, he says, is multiform Attis, whom while they celebrate in a hymn, they utter these words:

"I will hymn Attis, son of Rhea, not with the buzzing sounds of trumpets, or of Idaean pipers, which accord with (the voices of) the Curetes; but I will mingle (my song) with Apollo's music of harps, evoe, evan, ' inasmuch as thou art Pan, as thou art Bacchus, as thou art shepherd of brilliant stars."

On account of these and such like reasons, these constantly attend the mysteries called those of the "Great Mother,"supposing especially that they behold by means of the ceremonies performed there the entire mystery. [Moved into the presence of the gods with music]

For these have nothing more than the ceremonies that are performed there, except that they are not emasculated:they merely complete the work of the emasculated.

For with the utmost severity and vigilance they enjoin (on their votaries) to abstain, as if they were emasculated, from intercourse with a woman. The rest, however, of the proceeding (observed in these mysteries), as we have declared at some length, (they follow) just as (if they were) emasculated persons. And they do not worship any other object but Naas, (from thence) being styled Naasseni.

But Naas is the serpent from whom, i.e., from the word Naas, (the Naassene) says, are all that under heaven are denominated temples (Naos). And (he states) that to him alone-that is, Naas-is dedicated every shrine and every initiatory rite, and every mystery; and, in general, that a religious ceremony could not be discovered under heaven, in which a temple (Naos) has no existence; and in the temple itself is Naas, from whom it has received its denomination of temple (Naos)
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December 22nd, 2012, 1:59 pm #36


Question: "What does the Bible say about gossip?"

Answer: The Hebrew word translated gossip in the Old Testament is defined as one who reveals secrets, one who goes about as a talebearer or scandal-monger. A gossiper is a person who has privileged information about people and proceeds to reveal that information to those who have no business knowing it. Gossip is distinguished from sharing information in two ways:

1. Intent. Gossipers often have the goal of building themselves up by making others look bad and exalting themselves as some kind of repositories of knowledge.

2. The type of information shared. Gossipers speak of the faults and failings of others, or reveal potentially embarrassing or shameful details regarding the lives of others without their knowledge or approval. Even if they mean no harm, it is still gossip.

In the book of Romans, Paul reveals the sinful nature and lawlessness of mankind, stating how God poured out His wrath on those who rejected His laws. Because they had turned away from God's instruction and guidance, He gave them over to their sinful natures. The list of sins includes gossips and slanderers (Romans 1:29b-32). We see from this passage how serious the sin of gossip is and that it characterizes those who are under Gods wrath.

Another group who were (and still are today) known for indulging in gossip is widows. Paul cautions widows against entertaining the habit of gossip and of being idle. These women are described as gossips and busybodies, saying things they ought not to (1 Timothy 5:12-13). Because women tend to spend a lot of time in each other's homes and work closely with other women, they hear and observe situations which can become distorted, especially when repeated over and over. Paul states that widows get into the habit of going from home to home, looking for something to occupy their idleness. Idle hands are the devil's workshop, and God cautions against allowing idleness to enter our lives. A gossip betrays a confidence; so avoid a man [or woman] who talks too much (Proverbs 20:19).

Women are certainly not the only ones who have been found guilty of gossip. Anyone can engage in gossip simply by repeating something heard in confidence. The book of Proverbs has a long list of verses that cover the dangers of gossip and the potential hurt that results from it. A man who lacks judgment derides his neighbor, but a man of understanding holds his tongue. A gossip betrays a confidence, but a trustworthy man keeps a secret (Proverbs 11:12-13).

The Bible tells us that a perverse man stirs up dissension, and a gossip separates close friends (Proverbs 16:28). Many a friendship has been ruined over a misunderstanding that started with gossip. Those who engage in this behavior do nothing but stir up trouble and cause anger, bitterness, and pain among friends. Sadly, some people thrive on this and look for opportunities to destroy others. And when such people are confronted, they deny the allegations and answer with excuses and rationalizations. Rather than admit wrongdoing, they blame someone else or attempt to minimize the seriousness of the sin. A fool's mouth is his undoing, and his lips are a snare to his soul. The words of a gossip are like choice morsels; they go down to a man's inmost parts (Proverbs 18:7-8).

Those who guard their tongues keep themselves from calamity (Proverbs 21:23). So we must guard our tongues and refrain from the sinful act of gossip. If we surrender our natural desires to the Lord, He will help us to remain righteous. May we all follow the Bibles teaching on gossip by keeping our mouths shut unless it is necessary and appropriate to speak.

http://www.gotquestions.org/gossip-Bible.html
Good for Rocky to reveal these things about gossip. These are very good comments. I would like to expand on the difference in "talk" and "gossip."

Two examples of gossip might be Paul's reference to the "House of Chloe" in 1 Cor 1. This "talk" was good in that it was true. Also, it occurs in Matt. 16, in the famous passage about the Confession of Peter, where many gossiped He was "Elijah, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets." Matt. 16 might suggest that the gossip was headed in the right direction--in that Jesus was something that the people had never seen before, but stopped short of endorsing Him as God's Son.

1 Cor. 1 talks about the passing on of information, which is credible. Paul comes down on gossiping widows in 1 Tim. 5:13. They were "busybodies" and "tattlers" "saying things that they ought not." These were untruths or corruptions of valid information. Busybodies implies that they had no business saying what they did. Issues confronting the church are "everybody's business" however, since we have a church in which all members are invited to search the Word of God. Concerned Members, according to our tradition, review the Scriptures and opens discussion as in no other place. This is far from devotion to "myths" (1 Tim. 1:4).

Men are just as subject to gossip as women, and some have suggested that they are more vulnerable. Anyone that has been married realizes the leverage that women have through "talk", when it takes a long time to get what they believe is needed, but the influence there is unmistakable. The power of men often comes through "position," while the infuence of women comes through "talk." Women have come into higher profile since World War II, but they have always been a huge influence.

The log "Concerned Members" tries to report as accurately as possible the events that are taking place, and I think there is an underlying desire to report accurately. Occasionally an unwise comment does show, but I have seen others back off at that point, and usually there is correction. The nature of the post is that it is free, and everyone has an opportunity to contribute. Slanderous types of logs are edited out, and this provides needed protection.

Many at Madison look down on tradition, and think they are on the "leading edge" of needed change. What they are not so much aware of is that visitors who are family members come to Madison [and are affiliated with churches other than Churches of Christ], and they are actually "taken back" by the antics seen on stage. They look at it often, not as constructive change, but more like the old shoe "Hulla-ba-loo" [I'm not sure I spelled it correctly] or to be more modern more like a Michael Jackson performance. That is, many of our "denominational neighbors" who visit are aghast.

The outcome should be not to hide any non-slanderous event or direction, but to report it accurately. The scheming that is taking place behind doors and curtains can be exposed. This has been revealed throughout the history that the undesirable events at Madison have been exposed as long-range planning, or at least evolvement, toward a much different church. Therefore, the events and quotes that are referred to in its history actually came to be. "Who told you the truth" is a better barometer of measurement of "gossip" than "Who is right?", since rightness may be harder to judge, but the "truth" in terms of what was "gossiped" would happen [and did happen] is clear, now as we look back.

"Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them" (ASV, Eph. 5:11). Any events that should be under discussion should be "exposed" so that that brothers and sisters be not caught by surprise.

We ought to consider that women contribute to church, in fact they may be some of the bigger givers, and have a right to be heard, even as pointed out in Eph 5:21, where Paul says to "submit to one another" before the verse that says "Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands." This levels the playing field between men and women, and reduces abject subordination of the wife, to one of companionship, such as "in Christ there is neither male nor female, Jew nor Greek, bond nor free." If the ultimate outcome and influence of Christianity was to break down the barrier between slaves and masters (and erase that relationship over centuries), and to break down the wall of separation between Jew and Gentile, THEN finally there will be the change of relationship between men and women to one of cooperation and companionship.

Considering that women are some of the big givers, and that they contribute massive support for the church in every place, and that elders are not to "lord it over the church but to be examples to the flock" (1 Peter 5:3), then we might conclude that "talk" of either men or women contributes to the health of the church, since all can be heard through their "voices."

Mark 10:41 "And when the ten heard it, they began to be moved with indignation concerning James and John. 42And Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they who are accounted to rule over the Gentiles lord it over them; and their great ones exercise authority over them. 43But it is not so among you: but whosoever would become great among you, shall be your minister; 44and whosoever would be first among you, shall be servant of all. 45For the Son of man also came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."
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Joined: January 28th, 2012, 10:19 pm

December 24th, 2012, 4:08 pm #37

In Rev 1 Jesus is described as being the "faithful witness" What follows is the testimony of the faithful witness as to the true spiritual health and status of churches named in the following chapters and verses. We are likewise to be faithful and true witnesses to the spiritual health of congregations if we follow this example. This is particularly true if we are a minister or teacher or someone of influence in a congregation. Consider further that the faithful witness points out faults and weaknesses and pictures them as serious. Respect for Gods revelation would be paramount in this function. Consider that we can and should measure those who influence us by the word and the fruits of their actions. Consider also that those who lack experience and a thorough grounding in the word of God can not make themselves a true and faithful witness. This is a great shortcoming of promoting young men to a position of great influence who do have a knowledge of pop psychology and church growth ideas but no grounding in Gods word. While I don't know the specific persons mentioned in this thread the measure found in Revelation is a good one and should be applied to anyone of influence in the Lords church.

Consider the comment made by God in Rev 12 that Satan will make war on the church and those that possess the testimony of Jesus Christ. It is a serious spiritual matter and we have every right to measure actions of those of influence by the word of God.

Comments welcome
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Rocky
Rocky

December 24th, 2012, 5:12 pm #38

I heard they appointed a new senior minister/pastor at Madison yesterday, any news on who? Could this guy return them to the old paths?

The Senior Preaching Pastor claims that "I vote with the elders because I am the Authoratative Teacher." They claim the role of Jesus as both Rabbi and Mediator-Intercessor

Parasites: all religious operatives such as the Priests and Levites were called Parasites. A parasite specificially identifies speakers, singers, instrument players and actors.

http://www.piney.com/Robert.Ballard.Are ... sites.html

http://www.piney.com/Preaching.for.Pay.and.Simony.html

Stop Gossip in the Church

by Bryant Evans on April 16, 2010


Do church members gossip? Do they gossip about each other? I think we know the answer. And I think we know that all of us have been guilty of gossip at some time. But we also know that gossip is a horrendous habit that can assault, crush and destroy even the strongest believer.

Gossip is particularly damaging in the local church because people are often more open with fellow Christians about their weaknesses and needs. And because those weaknesses are out in the open it may be that gossip is more common in the church than anywhere else. A frightening thought wouldnt you say?

Just think for a moment. How many people have been the target of gossip from within the church? How many have been hurt, even mortally wounded by the careless comments of another? Too many I am sure.

Gossip Is A Real Problem

Regardless of why, loose talk hurts. Victims of the gossipers tongue first of all feel embarrassment that their problems are now public. No one wants their dirty laundry tossed about before others.

After the shame the victim feels betrayed or let down by the person in whom they confided. We imagine how Jesus felt when betrayed and denied by Judas and then Peter. We also remember our own pain when someone betrays us. It hurts badly.

Gossip destroys influence. Even strong, mature Christians deal with serious shortcomings daily (Romans 3:23). Revealing private details of their struggles can harm others looking to them for strength.

But most of all, gossip is a problem because it is a sin. It violates the Gold Rule of Matthew 7:12 and Luke 6:31. It violates our Lords command to love one another (John 13:34; Romans 12:10; 1 John 3:11). Often the gossip is untrue which adds to its sinfulness. Gossip is simply wrong (1 Timothy 5:13; 2 Thessalonians 3:11 .

Gossip In the Church

Well, we expect gossip at the office. We expect it at the ballpark. We even expect it at a PTA meeting or during a telephone call with a friend. But we do not expect it at church.

Gossip seems to occur in the church for several reasons and not all of them are bad. In fact the motive may be noble but the outcome is still sinful.

Stop Gossip Intended to Help

Sometimes, people think they are helping by telling another about someones problem.

I was sure glad to see Sandra at worship this morning.

Me too. I know shes been struggling recently, came the reply, which unfortunately did not end there. Sandra and Bill have been fighting a lot. I heard he was a bit too friendly with a girl at work. Of course Sandra has been busy with her new job. I guess she just needs to spend more time with him.

Now probably, our speaker really thinks she is helping by briefing another Christian on how to help Sandra. After all, the church is a family and we all work together to encourage and exhort one another. But there was very little help here. Even assuming that what the speaker said was true, this did nothing to encourage or assist Sandra. Instead, both she and Bill are objects of curiosity and, in the case of Bill, scorn.

Stop Gossip Intended to Apply the Lesson

Every preacher has experienced it. It usually occurs at the door of the church where people are speaking to the preacher as they leave the assembly.

It goes like this:

That was a fine lesson on watching your language. I know certain people have a problem with that, he says while nodding toward a brother in Christ.

Some take the lesson and use it to hammer someone else. Its concerning to me that the message means so little to the hearers and that they can so quickly brush it off and point it at someone else.

Anyway you cut it and whatever motive you attach to it, it is still gossip.

Stop Gossip Thats Just Plain Gossip

Of course the old reasons for gossip are still present even in the church. Envy, covetousness, malice and jealousy cause gossip in and out of the body of Christ. Paul told the Galatians that these things are works of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21). They have no place in the life of the Christian. Gossip is but one outcome of such characteristics. With Gods changing power we can eliminate such from our lives.

Idle talk is perhaps the single most common cause of gossip. We dont intend to hurt anyone and we would never knowingly gossip about a brother or sister, but we do. I guess we assume the information is known or that the person we are speaking to is close enough and dear enough that we can talk about things with them. Such an assumption is usually wrong.

Whatever the reason, gossip is wrong and we must do all we can to stop gossip.

Stop Gossip by Tightening Loose Tongues

Here are five ideas to help but the brakes on waging tongues. As always, start with self first.
1.Make a conscious effort to monitor your own words. Actively listen to yourself. Make careful note of what you talk about, who you talk about and precisely what you say. Ensure that your words are Godly words that directly build-up, not tear down.
2.Make a conscious effort to monitor your own hearing. What ever comes into your mind makes an impression. Dont listen to the juicy details about someone you know. Either move the conversation to a new subject or move along yourself.
3.Speak out to stop gossip. There is no need to be nasty but just let people know you will not be a party to gossip. It might be easier to tell your close friends before gossip begins that you are trying to break a bad habit. When the talk starts, interrupt and remind people that youd rather not talk about other people.
4.Assume unflattering stories are false. When you hear something tawdry about someone do you assume it is true? What if we all just assumed that the gossip was false? Would that slow things down?
5.Let gossip end with you. What if every piece of gossip depended upon you? Would it live or die? Slay gossip by refusing to repeat it. Keep count for the next week. How many pieces of gossip did you kill? You might be surprised.

Gossip is incredibly common and incredibly destructive. There is no place for gossip anywhere but especially in the church where are brothers and sisters and servants of the Most High. Do your part to squelch wagging tongues!

http://preachersstudyblog.com/2010/04/s ... he-church/
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

December 24th, 2012, 6:02 pm #39

Is it gossip that the elders see nothing wrong with Instrumental Music BUT will restrict it to the youth group (where we boil frogs confesses Rick Atchley).

Is it gossip that the new youth minister becomes senior whatever introduced his sermon with music the TEENS will know all about?

Is it gossip that they violate all of the principles laid down and PATTERNED by jesus who obeyed God the father and had nothing of his own to teach? By whose authority do they DECIDE that something is OK when it is condemned from the "singing and harp playing prostitute in the garden of Eden" to the Babylon Mother of harlots (Rev 17) whose speakers, singers, players etal are really SORCERERS?

The RULERSHIP of elders is to FEED the lambs and not to entertain the goats. He has NO WIDER AUTHORITY and his ONLY Resource is that which is written for our learning.

Titus 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete,
<font color="#FFFFFF">.....
that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting,
.....and ordain elders in every city,
.....as I had appointed thee
Titus 1:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife,
.....having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless,
.....as the steward of God;
.....not selfwilled,
.....not soon angry,
.....not given to wine,
.....no striker,
.....not given to filthy lucre;
Titus 1:8 But a lover of hospitality,
.....a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word
.....as he hath been taught,
.....that he may be able by sound doctrine
.....both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Titus 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers,
.....specially they of the circumcision:
Titus 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses,
.....teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucres sake.


Jesus marked the circumcision party as Scribes and Pharisees (clergy) and hypocrites: In Ezekiel 33 the hypocrites are preachers pleasing the audience, singers and instrument players. I submit that the elders blaspheme the Spirit OF Christ in all of the prophets when they give their approval for forcing the youth to make the connection between instrumental music and spiritual worship. They will be "hard wired" and the Winterfesters KNOW exactly what they are doing.

A person is NOT a bishop or FEEDER of the flock if he violates direct commands and presumes to feed LAMBS by the sounds of rushing waters. The shepherd LEADS the lambs beside still waters and the lambs FEED THEMSELVES on the grass. The Shepherd FENDS OFF the wolves and does not secretly feed them with never-commanded tithes and offerings. When the flock voluntarily supports the PROGRAM they are in an area where the Shepherds have absolutely no dominant authority.

The Spirit OF Christ pronounced woes on the spiritual leaders (dominated by wives) who collect unlawful and often tithes so they can have wine, women and instrumental performances in the temple. See Amos and Isaiah.

You should reveal the nature of the "gossip" quickly!
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Last edited by Ken.Sublett on December 24th, 2012, 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rocky
Rocky

December 24th, 2012, 6:29 pm #40

Ken, have another glass of "Holenwald Egg Nog". I'm in no hurry. Merry Christmas!
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