Madison's New (Instrumental) 'Vision'

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 1st, 2012, 6:37 pm #71

Babylonian Tablets proves that people knew how to MANIPULATE people with "god sounds."

It's perfectly clear to Nimrod--the mighty hunter AGAINST God and modern science as reported in Time Magazine.

http://www.piney.com/MuTimeBrain.html

It's hard to exaggerate the effect music can have on the human brain. A mere snippet of song from the past can trigger memories as vivid as anything Proust experienced from the aroma of his petite madeleine.

A tune can induce emotions ranging from unabashed joy to deep sorrow and can drive listeners into states of patriotic fervor or religious frenzy-- to say nothing of its legendary ability to soothe the savage beast.

Yet in spite of music's remarkable influence on the human psyche, scientists have spent little time attempting to understand why it possesses such potency.

"We tend to think of music as an art or a cultural attribute," notes Robert Zatorre, a neuroscientist at McGill University in Montreal,

"but it is a complex human behavior that is as worthy of scientific study as any other."

That's why Zatorre helped organize a conference, "The Biological Foundations of Music," sponsored last week by the New York Academy of Sciences, at which experts in disciplines ranging from neuroscience and neurology to brain imaging and psychology met to exchange notes about what's known--and, more important, what remains to be learned--in this small but growing field.

What seems clear is that the ability to experience and react to music is deeply embedded in the biology of the nervous system.

While music tends to be processed mostly in the right hemisphere(FEMININE) of the brain, no single set of cells is devoted to the task

Different networks of neurons are activated, depending on whether a person is listening to music or playing an instrument, and whether or not the music involves lyrics.

Specific brain disorders can affect the perception of music in very specific ways. Experiments done on epileptics decades ago showed that stimulating certain areas of the temporal lobe on both sides of the brain awakened "musical memories"--vivid re-creations of melodies that the patients had heard years earlier.

Lesions in the temporal lobe can result in so-called musicogenic epilepsy, an extremely rare form of the disorder in which seizures are triggered by the sound of music. Autism offers an even greater puzzle. People with this condition are mentally deficient, yet most are proficient musicians; some are "musical savants" possessed of extraordinary talent.

The opposite is true of the less than 1% of the population who suffer from amusia, or true tone deafness. They literally cannot recognize a melody, let alone tell two of them apart, and they are incapable of repeating a song (although they think they are doing it correctly). Even simple, familiar tunes such as Frere Jacques and Happy Birthday are mystifying to amusics, but when the lyrics are spoken rather than sung, amusics are able to recognize the song immediately.

"This goes way beyond an inability to carry a tune," observes psychologist Isabelle Peretz of the University of Montreal. "They can't dance, and they can't tell the difference between consonance [harmony] and dissonance either.

They all appear to have been born without the wiring necessary to process music." Intriguingly, people with amusia show no overt signs of brain damage or short-term-memory impairment, and magnetic-resonance-imaging scans of their brains look normal.

There is evidently no way to help these unfortunate folks (though, admittedly, they don't know what they're missing).But for instrumentalists, at least, music can evidently trigger physical changes in the brain's wiring.

By measuring faint magnetic fields emitted by the brains of professional musicians, a team led by Christo Pantev of the University of Muenster's Institute of Experimental Audiology in Germany has shown that intensive practice of an instrument leads to discernible enlargement of parts of the cerebral cortex, the layer of gray matter most closely associated with higher brain function.

As for music's emotional impact, there is some indication that music can affect levels of various hormones,

including cortisol (involved in arousal and stress),

Consider the following three types of damage that takes place in our bodies under exposure to loud volume.

First, loud volume slows down our ability to memorize and do other brain functions by constricting the flow of blood to the brain. In the words of Dr. Arnold Scheivel, professor of medicine at UCLA and an expert on brain growth, "If there is a bottom line, it is that no neuron is healthier than the capillary that supplies it.

We have a very strong feeling that in the capillary supply system is the story of the maintenance or slow decline of the brain." How does volume effect blood supply? The blood vessels undergo a narrowing of caliber in the presence of loud sound. This narrowing decreases the flow of blood to the different parts of the body, including the mind. A person studying under the influence of loud music has a decrease in the amount of blood flowing to the brain. This makes it more difficult to memorize and to understand their studies.

Second, loud music can cause a form of schizophrenia. When a person is exposed to high level sound, a chemical is formed in the brain that is normally found in schizophrenia patients in mental institutions. A music therapist, investigating the effects of loud music, gave an emotional stability test to 240 teenagers while they listened to music.

A psychologist, who was unaware of how it was given, examined the results and determined that the test had been given in a mental institution.

Martin Polo, the director of Audio Visual Services at UCLA and noise consultant for the aerospace industry and related technologies writes, "Lastly, the presence of continued exposure to high level sound can trigger psychopathological impacts on individuals."

These impacts can range from depressions noted among females during the menstrual period to actual presence in the brain of chemicals normally found in schizophrenia and psychosis. There are a number of other interesting reaction to the presence of high level sound which involve the brain, including interference with vision.

Third, loud music can cause ulcers. When susceptible individuals are exposed to loud sound over a period of time, certain stomach functions are disrupted and an increase of hydrochloric acid is released, causing ulceration of the stomach. Martin Polon of UCLA writes, "The continuing exposure to high energy sound creates a stress reaction in the body that significantly involves the gastrointestinal system. Certain stomach functions are disrupted by abnormal contractions of the abdominal area, and increased infusion of hydrochloric acid causing dyspepsia. Recurring activation of this syndrome will lead to peptic ulceration in susceptible individuals.


ORGANUM or "After the Pipe Organ" may be more damaging than using instruments since the "audience" is pretty well dummed. MOST congregational seeks to be LOUD, Musically CORRECT, and the PARTS enter into combat to make their PART stand out.

A Disciple of Christ commanded to teach and observe WHAT HE commanded should never put SILENCE above a command which cannot be misunderstood. Jesus SPOKE or Cantillated the YEARLY halal and went out.

It really could matter less if you intend to violate the command to TEACH THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN FOR OUR LEARNING

Congregational singing, when the NACC and JUBILEEATORS such as Flat, Shelly etal, almost ceased when their disciples scrapped the song books and bought Howard's (Vineyard) PRAISE BOOK. We had an expert musician from a college who taught us to ROCK the beat by JUMPING over the bar and hitting with a thud. Undoubtedly, even the so-called conservative preachers made School of Christ into WORSHIP ONLY which they define out of the Pagan Song Books and which James repudates as contrary to PURE religion.

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Racnor
Racnor

September 1st, 2012, 6:54 pm #72

It is evidently Racnor's numb conscience that prompts him to fail to recognize the neither-add-to-nor-take-from command.
"B", sorry if I hit a nerve. I'm sure it was your last one. Moving on....... Vocal harmony is a style of vocal music. It is possible to just sing without harmony?
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B
B

September 1st, 2012, 7:29 pm #73

Racnor's "aim" would have to be much more accurate to hit any nerve. Since the New Testament does not address singing in unison or in harmony, then man is at liberty to sing either way. We are not at liberty to add instrumental music to the vocal music that the New Testament specifies. Racnor should remember the neither-add-to-nor-take-from command when the urgent cravings come upon him to use instrumental music.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

September 1st, 2012, 8:07 pm #74

Original Message <font face="times" size="3">(June 11 2012 at 3:32 AM):</font>

<table width="725" border="0"><tr><td valign="top" width="98%">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="98%"><tr><td width="98%" bgcolor="#ffffff">

<table border="0" width="98%" align="center"><tr><td>
[color=#000000" size="5" face="times]Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision"[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Last month the elders announced Madison's new "vision" that approves the use of instrumental music. If someone wrote about this I didn't see it.

They said that using instruments is not a "salvation issue". Both services will use acappella music for now, but the first service will now get a praise team like the second service. And the second service will have more creative worship.

But the youth group gets to start using instrumental music. They said light acoustical instruments.

This seems like a huge change so I was surprised not to see it here yet.


[/color]</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table>

_________________________

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE:The information above has been submitted anonymously. Meanwhile, we have opted to substitute "Concerned" for "Anonymous" as the name. The message remains unedited.
-----------------------[/color]
[color=#000000" size="3" face="times]We've heard from the author who is a long-time member of Madison and would like to be identified as "MCC-Torn" [... and appropriately so].[/color]
=================================================



=================================================
[color=#0000FF" size="5" face="times]Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision": Cymbals, Psalteries, Harps ANATHEMA
By Ken Sublett[/color]



Heritage Church of Christ following the ACU pattern has imposed what he calls instrumental music.

http://www.piney.com/Heritage.Church.of ... Music.html

Jim Hackney led by the NACC at ACU gives his "proof texts" all of which are lies because he does not know the context.

http://www.piney.com/Jim.Hackney.Instru ... rship.html

The expression "having cymbals and psalteries and harps" is not a pattern for Christian worship: it is defined as the worship of Apollo (abaddon, Apollyon) and Dionysus first outed at Mount Sinai. If God turned them over to worship the starry host, and scholars agree that the Jews worshipped the starry host on their way back to Babylon, why do you suppose that latter day elders fulfil the warning of Paul against wolves and violently impose the same patternism: Who knows? both the Shadow and any Bible student knows.

http://www.piney.com/Having.Cymbals.and ... s.and.html
There is no Biblical text (that which is commanded) which can be sung in any kind of harmony. That would be like four preachers preaching IN PARTS because the commands to the elders is to "teach that which has been taught." The method from the Church of Christ in the wilderness oneward was to PREACH the Word by READING the Word

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Romans 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
Romans 15:6 That ye may with ONE MIND and ONE MOUTH glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

There was no MUSIC ever never in the church until Calvin permitted radically REWRITTEN Psalms to be sung in unison only:

"One of the developments in which Beza was of great assistance was in Reformed psalmody. Zwingli had opposed music in public worship and it was a century or so after his death before the Reformed Churches in which his influence was strong departed from that precedent.

Calvin did not go as far as Zwingli, but confined the use of music to congregational singing in UNISON of metrical versions of the Psalms and Canticles." (Latourette, p. 760).

"During Luther's time, congregational chorales were performed in the service without accompaniment. They were most often sung with the choir in UNISON, and occasionally the congregation would sing the melody while the choir sang a simple polyphonic harmonization. However, the pipe organ was never used to accompany hymns. The general view of Luther toward the organ was not at all enthusiastic because of its "primitive" nature (mean-tone tuning).

The pipe organ was used to preludize to give the initial pitch to the priest and choir. And it was used with chorales in alternation with the choir, one verse played by the organ and the next sung.

"It is that in UNISON and UNITY they might glorify God the Father... in the background lurks the thought of the prejudice incurred for the final end to be promoted by the church when the fellowship of the saints is marred by suspicions and dissensions and in this case particularly by the arrogance of the strong and the stumbling of the weak. No consideration could enforce the exhortation more strongly than to be reminded of the glory of God as the controlling purpose of all our attitudes and actions." (Murray, John, Romans, p. 201, Eerdmans).

Swiss, and later, French, English, and Scottish Calvinism promoted the singing of metrical translations of the psalter (see psalmody), austerely set for unaccompanied UNISON singing. English and Scottish Protestantism admitted only the singing of psalms. English metrical psalms were set to tunes adapted from the French and Genevan psalters. These were fairly complex melodies written on French metres. The English psalter used only a few metres, and the custom of singing each psalm to its proper tune was soon replaced by the use of a few common tunes. The common metre 8, 6, 8, 6 (the numbers give the number of syllables in each line), a form of English ballad metre, remains the archetypal English hymn metre.Kenneth Latourette, A History of Christianity, p. 760).

"Sometimes religion produces suggestive rituals shared by a community to create an atmosphere useful for uplifting one's thoughts and coming to one's senses. There are those who cannot do without such forms of worship. Where, however, the form takes the place of meditation, or conditions it; where human words prevail over the Spirit.. then we are no longer in the presence of true religion.

"The one who uses colours and sounds and forms and movements and other gifts of God under the illusion of creating a stairway to heaven out of his own resources can, even involuntarily and in good faith, be raising an invisible barrier between humanity and God himself. (Davide Melodia, The Lord of Silence)
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Scripture
Scripture

September 2nd, 2012, 3:19 am #75

"B", sorry if I hit a nerve. I'm sure it was your last one. Moving on....... Vocal harmony is a style of vocal music. It is possible to just sing without harmony?
Racnor, how would you apply the following verses to this CM site?

1 Tim. 1:3-10 ASV

3As I exhorted thee to tarry at Ephesus, when I was going into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge certain men not to teach a different doctrine, 4neither to give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questionings, rather than a dispensation of God which is in faith;'so do I now . 5But the end of the charge is love out of a pure heart and a good conscience and faith unfeigned: 6from which things some having swerved have turned aside unto vain talking; 7desiring to be teachers of the law, though they understand neither what they say, nor whereof they confidently affirm.

8But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully, 9as knowing this, that law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and unruly, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10for fornicators, for abusers of themselves with men, for menstealers, for liars, for false swearers, and if there be any other thing contrary to the sound doctrine; 11according to the gospel of the glory of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

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JimmyJoe
JimmyJoe

September 3rd, 2012, 12:07 am #76

I did not come here because I enjoy fussing and fighting or taking sides with other church members. This is pretty much a last gasp at communicating with someone or anyone who still cares about the ruining of a once great congregation.

I have spoken with several elders and church leaders about a lot of the recent changes. They just shrug it off. Others who tried to talk about concerns say the same thing. I don't think they care about people who are genuinely hurting for the congregation they love. We are expendable.

In the vision they said that they were not going to let "tradition" get in the way of bringing in new souls. But what about the thousands of souls who have left the church because of their break with "tradition"? Didn't Madison used to pack the auditorium for 2 services every Sunday? Didn't Madison used to be the biggest congregation in the church?

Who are these people they are trying to reach anyway? How many people are sitting around out there saying "I wish there was a church with an identity crisis that disrespects its heritage and confuses its children with inexplicable mixed messages and is willing to run off over half its members who have supported it with blood sweat and tears for decades out there that we could join."

Are there enough of these bizarre people out there to quadruple the current membership? That's about what it would take to come close to replacing all the good people they have run off already. I think they will be lucky to find a dozen in the first couple of years who want to wade into the mess they have made.

It is heartbreaking that the elders hope those of us who love the church and our formerly great congregation will just go away. It is sobering to think of the divine accountability that is heaping upon their shoulders for the departure of these souls they were responsible for shepherding. I don't know if I could sleep at night.
I am responding to this post just to get some clarification. I cannot say that when someone no longer attends Madison that they left the church. Some may have but I would suspect most began attending a different congregation. I agree that at one time Madison was said to be the largest church of Christ congregation in the country and possibly the world. I also remember when it was considered a mega-church which was too big and too liberal. Also the phrase run off confuses me. The only time I remember someone being run off from a church of Christ was as a young teenager and I saw some black people being asked to leave because they were not welcomed there due to the color of their skin. I am glad that is a tradition that no longer applies. Therefore, I think that those that at one time attended Madison left on thier own accord.

By the way, Donnie and I have met a few times after service and although we do not agree on many things out meetings have been polite and respectful. Thank you Donnie. It is greatly appreciated.
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Anonymous
Anonymous

September 3rd, 2012, 3:55 am #77

Original Message <font face="times" size="3">(June 11 2012 at 3:32 AM):</font>

<table width="725" border="0"><tr><td valign="top" width="98%">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="98%"><tr><td width="98%" bgcolor="#ffffff">

<table border="0" width="98%" align="center"><tr><td>
[color=#000000" size="5" face="times]Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision"[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Last month the elders announced Madison's new "vision" that approves the use of instrumental music. If someone wrote about this I didn't see it.

They said that using instruments is not a "salvation issue". Both services will use acappella music for now, but the first service will now get a praise team like the second service. And the second service will have more creative worship.

But the youth group gets to start using instrumental music. They said light acoustical instruments.

This seems like a huge change so I was surprised not to see it here yet.


[/color]</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table>

_________________________

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE:The information above has been submitted anonymously. Meanwhile, we have opted to substitute "Concerned" for "Anonymous" as the name. The message remains unedited.
-----------------------[/color]
[color=#000000" size="3" face="times]We've heard from the author who is a long-time member of Madison and would like to be identified as "MCC-Torn" [... and appropriately so].[/color]
=================================================



=================================================
[color=#0000FF" size="5" face="times]Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision": Cymbals, Psalteries, Harps ANATHEMA
By Ken Sublett[/color]



Heritage Church of Christ following the ACU pattern has imposed what he calls instrumental music.

http://www.piney.com/Heritage.Church.of ... Music.html

Jim Hackney led by the NACC at ACU gives his "proof texts" all of which are lies because he does not know the context.

http://www.piney.com/Jim.Hackney.Instru ... rship.html

The expression "having cymbals and psalteries and harps" is not a pattern for Christian worship: it is defined as the worship of Apollo (abaddon, Apollyon) and Dionysus first outed at Mount Sinai. If God turned them over to worship the starry host, and scholars agree that the Jews worshipped the starry host on their way back to Babylon, why do you suppose that latter day elders fulfil the warning of Paul against wolves and violently impose the same patternism: Who knows? both the Shadow and any Bible student knows.

http://www.piney.com/Having.Cymbals.and ... s.and.html
William Crump said "We are not at liberty to add instrumental music to the vocal music that the New Testament specifies."

If the Scriptures compel us to sing, then whether we use an instrument isn't the issue. Will the instrument keep us from singing? No. Will the instrument aid the singing? Yes. Will the instrument keep us from fulfilling the Word of God, which asks us to sing? No.

Good time here to tell the tale us that since God doesn't tell us to not use cocaine, then it is ok. You guys quit using that one. Other than making you look like you didn't have any idea of what you were talking about, why did you stop using that line?
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

September 3rd, 2012, 4:10 am #78

Dave,

Do you feel insecure about claiming your posts?

Inanimate musical objects do not sing. They do not aid my singing. Instead, they make me wanna dance. In many instances, congregants quit singing when your type of music begins. I could be wrong. Maybe, dancing aids your singing, too.

Have you done your research how that music and dancing are good friends? They go together well. They might do something to the nerve endings and make you feel erotic. Would you be in favor of dancing in the assembly, in addition to the playing of musical devices? Just wondering.
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Anonymous
Anonymous

September 3rd, 2012, 5:45 am #79

Original Message <font face="times" size="3">(June 11 2012 at 3:32 AM):</font>

<table width="725" border="0"><tr><td valign="top" width="98%">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="98%"><tr><td width="98%" bgcolor="#ffffff">

<table border="0" width="98%" align="center"><tr><td>
[color=#000000" size="5" face="times]Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision"[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Last month the elders announced Madison's new "vision" that approves the use of instrumental music. If someone wrote about this I didn't see it.

They said that using instruments is not a "salvation issue". Both services will use acappella music for now, but the first service will now get a praise team like the second service. And the second service will have more creative worship.

But the youth group gets to start using instrumental music. They said light acoustical instruments.

This seems like a huge change so I was surprised not to see it here yet.


[/color]</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table>

_________________________

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE:The information above has been submitted anonymously. Meanwhile, we have opted to substitute "Concerned" for "Anonymous" as the name. The message remains unedited.
-----------------------[/color]
[color=#000000" size="3" face="times]We've heard from the author who is a long-time member of Madison and would like to be identified as "MCC-Torn" [... and appropriately so].[/color]
=================================================



=================================================
[color=#0000FF" size="5" face="times]Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision": Cymbals, Psalteries, Harps ANATHEMA
By Ken Sublett[/color]



Heritage Church of Christ following the ACU pattern has imposed what he calls instrumental music.

http://www.piney.com/Heritage.Church.of ... Music.html

Jim Hackney led by the NACC at ACU gives his "proof texts" all of which are lies because he does not know the context.

http://www.piney.com/Jim.Hackney.Instru ... rship.html

The expression "having cymbals and psalteries and harps" is not a pattern for Christian worship: it is defined as the worship of Apollo (abaddon, Apollyon) and Dionysus first outed at Mount Sinai. If God turned them over to worship the starry host, and scholars agree that the Jews worshipped the starry host on their way back to Babylon, why do you suppose that latter day elders fulfil the warning of Paul against wolves and violently impose the same patternism: Who knows? both the Shadow and any Bible student knows.

http://www.piney.com/Having.Cymbals.and ... s.and.html
I would be in favor of you not going to a church (Madison) where all you do is criticize and ridicule.
Does William Crump feel insecure by using B as an alias?

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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

September 3rd, 2012, 3:48 pm #80

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]David Fields,

I asked you first.

Meanwhile I can help you answer my questions: David, king of Israel and a skilled musician -- his nudity and deep love for musical instruments and dancing. It is a known fact: that type of music and dancing are inseparable in many cases. There are churches out there in the denominational world who do instrumental music and "interpretive" dancing while congregating.

Congregations of the church of Christ, including those in the first century (Philippi, Corinth, Ephesus, Thessalonica, etc.) assembled to be enriched and indwelt with the word of Christ and NOT be entertained. So have churches of Christ through the centuries, including 99.9% of churches of Christ in the 21st century.

The few congregations that have succumbed to the "holy entertainment" experience per the change agents' agenda for the church of Christ Jesus to be just "like the other denomiNATIONS" are now part of the Community Church Movement -- admit it or not. [/color]
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