Madison's New (Instrumental) 'Vision'

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

June 13th, 2014, 7:08 pm #581

Once you begin to lie TO God and ABOUT God it is a little thing to lie about attendance. In the past they have counted those in JAIL which was over 300 at one time. Now, the count undoubtedly includes both the MOTHER and the DAUGHTER wing.

When this thing began the HEAD elder said that they had about 5000 members and had lost only about 50 after the bewitch and betrayal. So, maybe the 5000 the Tennessean reported is less than a thousand. In addition, a lot of these have been attracted by the Look-and-Lust butterflies who rarely sell their car to give to the "lord."

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]First: what the "Worship Guide" is all about. It is (or has become) a calendar of "UPCOMING EVENTS" and announcements only.

There is a separate sheet of instructions exclusively for the worship management team -- what songs to sing, when to clap [ ... almost], when and what song to sing if..., singing during the Lord's Supper, etc. The "worship team" doesn't want the congregants to know about the "programmed worship" in advance. (Interestingly, I do not see the Praise Team, especially the men and women worship leaders on stage, partaking of the Lord's Supper ... while performing/singing on stage.)

Anyway, the "worship guide" uses this format to report stats:[/color]
-------------------------------------
Records for _____[date last Sunday]______
Regular offerings, all campuses $____________
Sunday School $______________
Love Offering $______________ [on occasion]
Attendance __________________
Weekly regular offering budget = $___________________
Sunday School contributions is designated to 412 Student Ministries and His Kidz Ministries.
=====================================
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]I gather from "Regular offerings, all campuses $____________" that attendance also includes both the MOTHER and the DAUGHTER wing. [/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

June 13th, 2014, 7:51 pm #582

Just what dragon are you wanting to slay? Ken bundled MUSIC into (tuneful singing and IM). Neither is commanded per Ken. "Music" is not authorized. Right Ken?

Trip wires are everywhere. Just be still and let it happen.
The trip wire is vile personal assualts.

<font>musical instruments.
1Chronicles 23:5 four thousand were gatekeepers, and four thousand praised the LORD with musical instruments, which I made, said David, for giving praise.
2Chronicles 23:13 When she looked, there was the king standing by his pillar at the entrance; and the leaders and the trumpeters were by the king. All the people of the land were rejoicing and blowing trumpets, also the singers with musical instruments, and those who led in praise. So Athaliah tore her clothes and said, Treason! Treason!
Ecclesiastes 2:8 I also gathered for myself silver and gold and the special treasures of kings and of the provinces. I acquired male and female singers, the delights of the sons of men, and musical instruments [concubines] of all kinds.
Amos 6:5 Who sing idly to the sound of stringed instruments,
And invent for yourselves musical instruments like David; <b></b>

There is NO musical content to the God-Called assembly called the READING ASSEMBLY.

Samuel 18:10 ¶ And it happened on the next day that the distressing spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied inside the house. So David played music with his hand, as at other times; but there was a spear in Sauls hand.


Psallo means to smite a string WITH YOUR HAND and never with a plecktron." It is a lie to say that psallo authorizes guitar picks, drums, flutes etc."

1Samuel 19:9 ¶ Now the distressing spirit from the LORD came upon Saul as he sat in his house with his spear in his hand. And David was playing music with his hand.
2Samuel 6:5 Then David and all the house of Israel played music before the LORD on all kinds of instruments of fir wood, on harps, on stringed instruments, on tambourines, on sistrums, and on cymbals.
2Samuel 6:21 ¶ So David said to Michal, It was before the LORD, who chose me instead of your father and all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the LORD, over Israel. Therefore I will play music before the LORD.
1Chronicles 6:32 They were ministering with music before the dwelling place of the tabernacle of meeting, until Solomon had built the house of the LORD in Jerusalem, and they served in their office according to their order.


You will be happy at GRACE-CENTERED: just never quote a verse contrary to their ANTI-church of Christ venue claiming to speak for the instrumentalists. Graces were the blue-eyed blond musical prostitutes (Muses) led (then and now) by Abaddon or Apollyon worshipped by the Israelites at Mount Sinai.

This JohnnyB is a local guy occupied as a musician.
</font>
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SuperDuper C.M.
SuperDuper C.M.

June 13th, 2014, 10:43 pm #583

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]First: what the "Worship Guide" is all about. It is (or has become) a calendar of "UPCOMING EVENTS" and announcements only.

There is a separate sheet of instructions exclusively for the worship management team -- what songs to sing, when to clap [ ... almost], when and what song to sing if..., singing during the Lord's Supper, etc. The "worship team" doesn't want the congregants to know about the "programmed worship" in advance. (Interestingly, I do not see the Praise Team, especially the men and women worship leaders on stage, partaking of the Lord's Supper ... while performing/singing on stage.)

Anyway, the "worship guide" uses this format to report stats:[/color]
-------------------------------------
Records for _____[date last Sunday]______
Regular offerings, all campuses $____________
Sunday School $______________
Love Offering $______________ [on occasion]
Attendance __________________
Weekly regular offering budget = $___________________
Sunday School contributions is designated to 412 Student Ministries and His Kidz Ministries.
=====================================
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]I gather from "Regular offerings, all campuses $____________" that attendance also includes both the MOTHER and the DAUGHTER wing. [/color]
Donnie
Can you fill us in on what was so "threatening" about the sermon on May 25th? You should know you ordered copies...


====================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE: The author's name "SuperDuper Concerned Member[/color]" has been shortened to "<font size="4">SuperDuper C.M." ... in order to reduce the display width of the "Author" column to about half its length. [The network's editor does not wrap the text in the "Author" column.]

The message from "SuperDuper Concerned Member" remains unedited.

Thanks!
</font>
Last edited by Donnie.Cruz on June 14th, 2014, 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

June 13th, 2014, 11:26 pm #584

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]SuperD,

I haven't reviewed the copies yet [... just been extremely busy]. I would like to compare the contents of both the divided "traditional" and "contemporary" versions of the "threat" []. I strongly feel that there is a degree of "being accommodating" to whomever the message is delivered. One group is "conservative"; the other is "progressive," although it doesn't mean that there are not many conservative members in the contemporary assembly -- the reason that there were several folks that left just about when the musical recording was played.

Actually, the expression "threatening sermon" did not originate with me. However, I've learned to allow other members to express here their own observations.

Thanks for participating, SuperD. We welcome your comments.[/color]
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

June 14th, 2014, 12:48 am #585

Donnie
Can you fill us in on what was so "threatening" about the sermon on May 25th? You should know you ordered copies...


====================

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE: The author's name "SuperDuper Concerned Member[/color]" has been shortened to "<font size="4">SuperDuper C.M." ... in order to reduce the display width of the "Author" column to about half its length. [The network's editor does not wrap the text in the "Author" column.]

The message from "SuperDuper Concerned Member" remains unedited.

Thanks!
</font>
I listened and took notes: As I remember it Jason identified himself as the "leader" and said that rejecting the pattern would have to be without him. He has real problems including not knowing or caring about the Scriptures: you cannot hallucinate any "musical" content to the ekklesia-synagogue or assembly of Christ without lying to God and about God.

The problem with such handling of the word, LOGOS or regulative principle is that God sends strong delusions that you believe your own lies to be damned.

Mark 7:5 ¶ Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?

Musteri-on , A. mystery or secret rite: mostly in pl., ta m. the mysteries, first in Heraclit.14, cf. Hdt.2.51 (of the mysteries of the Cabiri in Samothrace), 2. mystic implements and ornaments b. later, object used in magical rites, talisman Anomia A. lawlessness, lawless conduct 2 Ep.Thess.2.7; 2. the negation of law, opp. nomos, D.24.152.

Eur. Ion 443 How then is it just for you to write laws for mortals, and yourselves incur a charge of lawlessness? Iffor it is not so, but I will handle the subject [445] you pay the penalty to mortals for rape, you and Poseidon, and Zeus, who rules heaven, you will empty your temples paying for your crimes. For you do wrong to go eagerly after your pleasures without thinking.

Isoc. 6 64 For by revolting from us they have gained nothing of what they anticipated; on the contrary, they have got just the opposite of freedom; for having slain the best of their citizens, they are now in the power of the worst; instead of securing self-government, they have been plunged into misgovernment of many terrible kinds;

Plat. Rep. 575a but the passion that dwells in him as a tyrant will live in utmost anarchy and lawlessness, and, since it is itself sole autocrat, will urge the polity, so to speak, of him in whom it dwells to dare anything and everything in order to find support for himself and the hubbub of his henchmen, in part introduced from outside by evil associations, and in part released and liberated within by the same habits of life as his. Is not this the life of such a one? It is this, he said. And if, I said, there are only a few of this kind in a city,


In this civil society the rule was not to tolerate men who wanted to get paid for songs or poems or speeches: in our language they were commanded to tar and feather them and ride them out of town.

2Th. 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed,
whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit [breath pneumati] of his mouth,
and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th. 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working [magical operation, haste] of Satan
with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Semeion sign of STRIKING the flage in the ekklessia or church.
Revelation 18 the speakers, singers, instrument players are signs that the LAMPS or

seven Spirits of Christ (all forms of divine knowledge) Watchword, War-Cry (halal)

Lying Wonders: -Teratourg-eô, A. WORK wonders, pseudôsti Sch.Pi.I.7(6).13. , o(, verbal noun of (B), with senses corresponding to (B) II and III (on the various senses of the word v. Opposite or peacher's tales Opposite , leading away into captivity.

Lying is -Pseudes 2. fiction (opposite logos, historic

- Muthos 2. fiction (Opposite logos, historic truth)
logos lego lego Opposite Pathos (preacher's personal opinions or commenrts_
epagogue 2. bringing in to one's aid, introduction, 4. allurement, enticement b. incantation, spell,


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Annie Mouse
Annie Mouse

June 15th, 2014, 6:08 am #586

The trip wire is vile personal assualts.

<font>musical instruments.
1Chronicles 23:5 four thousand were gatekeepers, and four thousand praised the LORD with musical instruments, which I made, said David, for giving praise.
2Chronicles 23:13 When she looked, there was the king standing by his pillar at the entrance; and the leaders and the trumpeters were by the king. All the people of the land were rejoicing and blowing trumpets, also the singers with musical instruments, and those who led in praise. So Athaliah tore her clothes and said, Treason! Treason!
Ecclesiastes 2:8 I also gathered for myself silver and gold and the special treasures of kings and of the provinces. I acquired male and female singers, the delights of the sons of men, and musical instruments [concubines] of all kinds.
Amos 6:5 Who sing idly to the sound of stringed instruments,
And invent for yourselves musical instruments like David; <b></b>

There is NO musical content to the God-Called assembly called the READING ASSEMBLY.

Samuel 18:10 ¶ And it happened on the next day that the distressing spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied inside the house. So David played music with his hand, as at other times; but there was a spear in Sauls hand.


Psallo means to smite a string WITH YOUR HAND and never with a plecktron." It is a lie to say that psallo authorizes guitar picks, drums, flutes etc."

1Samuel 19:9 ¶ Now the distressing spirit from the LORD came upon Saul as he sat in his house with his spear in his hand. And David was playing music with his hand.
2Samuel 6:5 Then David and all the house of Israel played music before the LORD on all kinds of instruments of fir wood, on harps, on stringed instruments, on tambourines, on sistrums, and on cymbals.
2Samuel 6:21 ¶ So David said to Michal, It was before the LORD, who chose me instead of your father and all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the LORD, over Israel. Therefore I will play music before the LORD.
1Chronicles 6:32 They were ministering with music before the dwelling place of the tabernacle of meeting, until Solomon had built the house of the LORD in Jerusalem, and they served in their office according to their order.


You will be happy at GRACE-CENTERED: just never quote a verse contrary to their ANTI-church of Christ venue claiming to speak for the instrumentalists. Graces were the blue-eyed blond musical prostitutes (Muses) led (then and now) by Abaddon or Apollyon worshipped by the Israelites at Mount Sinai.

This JohnnyB is a local guy occupied as a musician.
</font>
Ken, you must know 99.9% of churches of Christ disagree on your stand of NO TUNEFUL singing authorized.
Do you feel betrayed?
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

June 15th, 2014, 3:29 pm #587

One of the definitions of the BEAST is a "massed or milling multitude."

Your assignment, if you choose to accept it, is to find a command, example or remote inference in the Bible or until after the reformation of any massed multitude singing with or without instruments. You should grasp that one of the liberties of becoming a disciple of CHRIST is not to worry about the WORLD because Jesus said that He doesn't even PRAY for the WORLD or Kosmos. Remember that He invited the TWOS AND THREES to come OUT of the gates and suffer reproaches with HIM: He promised to give us REST and invited us to "come out and LEARN OF ME." Now, I betcha you have called the massed multitudes together to do all in your power to SILENCE THE VOICE OF THE VICTIM. That's called "sacred violence."


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Annie Mouse
Annie Mouse

June 15th, 2014, 5:35 pm #588




John 17

New International Version (NIV)


Jesus Prays to Be Glorified

17 After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:


Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Jesus Prays for His Disciples


6 I have revealed you[a] to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by[c] that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

13 I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17 Sanctify them by[d] the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

Jesus Prays for All Believers


20 My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one 23 I in them and you in meso that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

24 Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

25 Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26 I have made you[e] known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

June 15th, 2014, 5:58 pm #589

6 I have revealed you[a] to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your WORD.

Our bodies return to the dust but OUR SPIRITS return to God Who gave it. All of those who are OF FAITH are lost spirits, pilgrims and sojourners on the earth, Jesus as our elder brother was sent to seek and save. The PATTERN was to preach the good news: those who GLADLY received this Power Key were baptized and their spirits were TRANSLATED into a heavenly kingdom. That is why Jesus commanded THEM not to go out seeking the visible-audible kingdom because HIS new world kingdom DOES NOT COME with observation meaning RELIGIOUS SERVICES where services means hard bondage by which the devil afflicts you.

The PATTERN was to preach the gospel and MOVE ON to the next city because you cannot wheedle and whim spirits OF THE WORLD into the kingdom: the LOCUSTS or MUSES parable means that the collect you and hold you captive. I told you that the BEAST is "a new style of music or Satyric drama" which is the Pan-Cupid-Kairos drama wearing GOAT SKINS like cappellas.

John the Baptist came out from God which means that God SENT him. So, we now know who is NOT part of the NEW WORLD: they actually DISOBEYED the WORD or LOGOS as the Regulative principle as opposite of speaking, singing, playing, acting, clapping or preacher's tales.

Jesus stood up to READ the Word and then decently and in order SAT DOWN because He understand that they didn't do any kind of musicating in the synagogue as a school (only) of the Word (only). So, you deliberately and with a high hand did NOT obey the Word of Christ when He commanded that you teach and observe what HE commanded to be taught. He paid the temple tax and paid it all and commanded you in Isaiah 55 not to SELL anything and in Isaiah 58 not to seek your OWN pleasure (the only thing ever claimed for music) and NOT speak your own word.

So, we know who is still of the OLD WORLD ORDER for which Jesus does not pray.

Your old world order cannot exist without MONEY but Jesus didn't give you a thin dime so like the Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites you have to make up your own songs and sermons to deliberately NOT obey the WORD.
Last edited by Ken.Sublett on June 15th, 2014, 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

June 16th, 2014, 6:00 am #590

Ken, you must know 99.9% of churches of Christ disagree on your stand of NO TUNEFUL singing authorized.
Do you feel betrayed?
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Annie,

Just as instrumental music in "worship" has its own history, vocal music in "worship" does as well. Much of its recorded history has already been posted here. Perhaps, there's more research needed and posted here concerning "tuneful singing," Sarge?

We begin, of course, with the recitation (SPEAKING) of hymns to TEACH and ADMONISH ONE ANOTHER (Eph. 5:19, Col. 3:16). Now (in certain congregations), we have further graduated from congregational singing to the Praise Team singing to/for the congregation!!!! And worse -- the elite musicians are on stage PERFORMING with their microphones: a common sight in evangelical/charismatic churches.

The "tuneful singing" has turned into ... well, here's probably a good explanation of what "tuneful singing" is/has become ... from someone who even affiliates himself with an IM church.[/color]
[color=#000000" size="4" face="times]Why I've Stopped Singing in Your Church[/color]
By Bill Blankschaen (July 15, 2012)

. . .

To be candid, I know how to behave in your church. I've been raised in it my entire life. So I know how to fake it when necessary. Lately, it's been very necessary when the music is playing and we're supposed to be singing, you know, to God. Frankly, I'm tired of it. Maybe all the "seekers" are enjoying it, but I'm finding it hard to sincerely engage in anything resembling worship.

. . .

As best I can sort through my own muddled and messy thoughts, I think there are three things that really bother me about the worship music in many Evangelical Christian churches today:

1. They're really, really simplistic. There, I tried to keep the words small. You certainly put a lot of work into doing that for me each Sunday. It's not just that most of the lyrics are simple as in easy to understand. It's that so many of the songs remind me of the ditties we sang at camp when I was ten. Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure the theology in some of those camp songs was more advanced than the ones I've heard in some of your services. But, hey, everybody else seems to be really, really enjoying it so maybe it's just me. Unless, of course, they've also learned how to fake it.

2. They're all pulled from the latest Top 40 Worship channel. Or so it seems. Most songs I hear in evangelical churches of late have been written in the last decade, if that. I know I'm painting with a broad brush here because there have been some really, really (is this helping?) awesome songs written in the last two decades that deserve a place on the all-time worship songs list. We just usually don't sing those. Maybe because they're so three years ago.

What ever happened to the previous 2,000 years of church music history? Oh, I know, every so often you toss a token "hymn" (meaning within just the last century or so) into the mix. But even then, it's a remix that requires melodic jujitsu to keep up with the quicker pace and fancier chord progressions. One distinguishing mark of the worship music of centuries past is that it generally focused more on content than today's simplisitc style. Songs like "Arise, My Soul, Arise"; "Immortal, Invisible"; "Rejoice, the Lord is King"; or even the simple "I Sing the Almighty Power of God" typified a depth of doctrine that taught us as it revealed the glory of our Lord.

3. They repeat. And repeat. And repeat. And repeat. And rep all right. See what I mean? Really, really annoying. Really. The first time we sang the simplistic ditty, I could tolerate it though I thought the infinite God of all creation deserved better. By the fifth time, I was hearing echoes of Jesus warning about vain repetitions.

. . .
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