Madison's New (Instrumental) 'Vision'

Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

May 28th, 2014, 6:05 am #551

I am really quite thrilled: I thought I had to nap all day! I was afraid that we would have to turn in our prophets certificate and confess that 14 years of hate against us was justified.

We noted that there are numerous Bible passages as well as literature from caly tablets onward which says that when you lie to God, about God and the owners, you have fallen and can never get up. The sounds of instruments such as the message of the Spirit of Christ in Isaiah 30

http://www.piney.com/Isa30LXX.html

are not the actual SIN but God's sounds of driving you into "hell" or casting you alive into the lake of fire.

Rev. 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Among the Babylonians, Genun was a composite of Jubal, Jabal, Tubal-Cain and Naamah. Jubal was the father (genetically) of those who HANDLE musical instruments meaning without authority.

http://www.piney.com/MuGenun2.html

2 It is this Enoch to whom many wonders happened, and who also wrote a celebrated book; but those wonders may not be told in this place. Remember that there are TWO Lamech's as Scripture often uses the TWO BROTHER'S concept.

3 Then after this,the children of Seth went astray and fell, they, their children and their wives.
And when Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech and Noah saw them, their hearts suffered by reason of their fall into doubt full of unbelief; and they wept and sought of God mercy, to preserve them, and to bring them out of that wicked generation.

"Altogether, not one of our fathers or of their children, remained on that holy mountain, except those three, Methuselah, Lamech, and Noah. For all the rest went down from the mountain and fell into sin with the children of Cain. Therefore were they forbidden that mountain, and none remained on it but those three men" Second Adam and Eve 22:10


The Frog boiling process which seems ordained for those whose names are not "written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. (the lost spirits Jesus came for0 follows the Purpose Driven process. This is the meaning of Jesus standing on the rock looking into the cave temple of PAN and says that the Panites will not prevail over the church. If you look at the teaching resource of the Madison Church it is not Scripture:

Ravishing music; strong drink loosed among the sons of Cain. They don colorful clothing. The children of Seth look on with longing eyes. They revolt from wise counsel; they descend the mountain into the valley of iniquity. They can not ascend the mountain again.

They heard
They wondered
They came
They stood
They looked
The were gradually won over to mixed-sex choirs, instruments, wearing clergy apparel and ultimately sodomy.
Genun was given power to accelerate the seduction process
The Sethites continued a divided allegiance
They fell into temptation
They began to hallucinate
They lusted
They fell from grace
They tried to repent but could not
Tried to cause others to fall to give them comfort.
They were sentenced to captivity
They served as a warning or pattern.


Jesus said that God HIDES from them and He does not PRAY for them because He says that they are OF THE WORLD. The LITTLE FLOCK has been called out of more groups than we might imagine since too may have adopted the Church is worship only or "virtual instruments" with the praise teams as the seducteresses.

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]To Scripture:

Would you please describe the scene before, during and after the last song? This may include the announcement by the "Worship Leader" for those who wish "to leave if ..."; the prerecorded instrumental accompaniment; the title/name of what seemed to be a pop-religious song and the lyrics ["climb every mountain" (?)] ... immediately followed by: [?] "Open the eyes of my heart, Lord, I want to see You"; the number of people leaving meanwhile.

Do you recall when the musical performers of 2 men and 2 WOMEN [co-Worship Leaders] on stage did their initial performance? It was also during the last song one Sunday. Now, they PERFORM on a regular basis from the very first song to the last song.

"Boiling the frog" in progress!!! (Soon there's going to be more staff infection -- a piano player or an organist and a drummer.)[/color]

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Scripture
Scripture

May 28th, 2014, 11:17 am #552

Many had already left before the last song, but many did leave during the song. This is because the pulpit minister had gone on so long and insulted anyone who disagrees with him. He did, as Ken said, endorse (literally, at least) that drinking and dancing would be okay, and his cheering section to the left of the speaker downstairs supported him when he mentioned liquor and dancing.

Many were dismayed when their delusions that the music were uncorked at the point the worship leader snapped on the switch to turn on the instrumental music, to erase any suspicions that it was only the microphone making the music.

Several were analyzing the day's events by the evening, wandering that some should depart from the Madison church to other places, but they may have intended to mean that the pulpit leader and the worship leaders should be the ones leaving. For sure, under these circumstances those who stay will lose their vocal culture, as well as the rich heritage of the Churches of Christ.

We'll have to wait and see what the contribution and the attendance do this following Sunday.

The speaker leaves little option that either to leave himself along with his instrument leader or for an new exodus of members from the already shrinking church.

Turn out that Northside is not the growth pearl they were expecting but competition from the community churches, Hendersonville COC, and the local Baptist churches are too competitive for Northside to get any traction. Any growth in this direction is there thwarted. It is equally clear that the Madison campus itself is not getting any traction from the younger set, so the entire church is set to lose in this new brand of narrowness and intolerance.
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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

May 28th, 2014, 4:01 pm #553

Beginning with Tom Haddon Madison has had a Leadership in Exile: that small band or claque making the clapp clapp noises must be the same group.

When Rick Atchley took the cover off his horns as did Jason, the local media was repulsed that anyone would so betray a Church of Christ. Of course, the Purpose Driven Cult thinks that they can chase away up to half of the owners and recover. However, the youth who are disciples will never finance a congregation as the EXCISED older faithful people did. If there is any minimal ethics they will never sacrifice their health care money knowing that it has been STOLEN AND DIVERTED by the same leaders.

The walk like ducks were Chris Seidman, then Max Lucado, then Rick Atchley and then Quail Springs. Quail members got flushed and 300 of the 600 walked our that day or quickly. That building is UP FOR SALE. David Young at North Boulevard in Murfreesboro sounds just like a Jason Shepherd so that makes three of my investments with the "Lord" slipped away by thiefs in the night.

And there shall be upon every lofty mountain and upon every high hill, water running in that day, when many shall perish, and when the towers shall fall. Isaiah 30:25

It's ok to watch it fall but stay clear.

And the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be seven fold in the day when the Lord shall heal the breach of his people, and shall heal the pain of thy wound. Isaiah 30:26 LXX

Behold, the name of the Lord comes after a long time, burning wrath [ORGY: the actors/musicians]; the word of his lips is with glory, a word full of anger, and the anger of his wrath shall devour as fire. Isaiah 30:27 LXX

And his breath [Spirit], as rushing water in a valley, reach reach as far as the neck, and be divided, to confound the nations for their vain error; error also shall pursue them and overtake them. Isaiah 30:28 LXX

Must ye always rejoice, and go into my holy places continually, as they that keep a feast? and must ye go with a pipe, as those that rejoice into the mountain of the Lord, to the God of Israel Isaiah 30:29 LXX

and the Lord shall make his glorious voice to be heard and the wrath of his arm, to make a display with wrath and anger and devouring flame: he shall lighten terribly, and his wrath shall be as water and violent hail. Isaiah 30:30 LXX


This promises to wash the DUNG out of the holy places: too bad that Madison did not get the message when God sent the sewers through the building.

And it shall happen to him from every side, that they from whom their hope of assistance was, in which he trusted, themselves shall war against him in turn with drums and with harp. Isaiah 30:32 LXX

For thou shalt be required before thy time: has it been prepared for thee also to reign? nay, God has prepared for thee a deep trench, wood piled fire and much wood: the wrath of the Lord shall be as a trench kindled with sulphur. Isaiah 30:33 LXX




Last edited by Ken.Sublett on May 28th, 2014, 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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May 28th, 2014, 6:12 pm #554

Original Message <font face="times" size="3">(June 11 2012 at 3:32 AM):</font>

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<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="98%"><tr><td width="98%" bgcolor="#ffffff">

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[color=#000000" size="5" face="times]Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision"[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Last month the elders announced Madison's new "vision" that approves the use of instrumental music. If someone wrote about this I didn't see it.

They said that using instruments is not a "salvation issue". Both services will use acappella music for now, but the first service will now get a praise team like the second service. And the second service will have more creative worship.

But the youth group gets to start using instrumental music. They said light acoustical instruments.

This seems like a huge change so I was surprised not to see it here yet.


[/color]</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table>

_________________________

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE:The information above has been submitted anonymously. Meanwhile, we have opted to substitute "Concerned" for "Anonymous" as the name. The message remains unedited.
-----------------------[/color]
[color=#000000" size="3" face="times]We've heard from the author who is a long-time member of Madison and would like to be identified as "MCC-Torn" [... and appropriately so].[/color]
=================================================



=================================================
[color=#0000FF" size="5" face="times]Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision": Cymbals, Psalteries, Harps ANATHEMA
By Ken Sublett[/color]



Heritage Church of Christ following the ACU pattern has imposed what he calls instrumental music.

http://www.piney.com/Heritage.Church.of ... Music.html

Jim Hackney led by the NACC at ACU gives his "proof texts" all of which are lies because he does not know the context.

http://www.piney.com/Jim.Hackney.Instru ... rship.html

The expression "having cymbals and psalteries and harps" is not a pattern for Christian worship: it is defined as the worship of Apollo (abaddon, Apollyon) and Dionysus first outed at Mount Sinai. If God turned them over to worship the starry host, and scholars agree that the Jews worshipped the starry host on their way back to Babylon, why do you suppose that latter day elders fulfil the warning of Paul against wolves and violently impose the same patternism: Who knows? both the Shadow and any Bible student knows.

http://www.piney.com/Having.Cymbals.and ... s.and.html
Good advice: please take it.

Last edited by Ken.Sublett on May 29th, 2014, 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

May 29th, 2014, 6:37 pm #555

Many had already left before the last song, but many did leave during the song. This is because the pulpit minister had gone on so long and insulted anyone who disagrees with him. He did, as Ken said, endorse (literally, at least) that drinking and dancing would be okay, and his cheering section to the left of the speaker downstairs supported him when he mentioned liquor and dancing.

Many were dismayed when their delusions that the music were uncorked at the point the worship leader snapped on the switch to turn on the instrumental music, to erase any suspicions that it was only the microphone making the music.

Several were analyzing the day's events by the evening, wandering that some should depart from the Madison church to other places, but they may have intended to mean that the pulpit leader and the worship leaders should be the ones leaving. For sure, under these circumstances those who stay will lose their vocal culture, as well as the rich heritage of the Churches of Christ.

We'll have to wait and see what the contribution and the attendance do this following Sunday.

The speaker leaves little option that either to leave himself along with his instrument leader or for an new exodus of members from the already shrinking church.

Turn out that Northside is not the growth pearl they were expecting but competition from the community churches, Hendersonville COC, and the local Baptist churches are too competitive for Northside to get any traction. Any growth in this direction is there thwarted. It is equally clear that the Madison campus itself is not getting any traction from the younger set, so the entire church is set to lose in this new brand of narrowness and intolerance.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Thanks, Scripture, for the perspective and update.[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

May 29th, 2014, 6:43 pm #556

Many had already left before the last song, but many did leave during the song. This is because the pulpit minister had gone on so long and insulted anyone who disagrees with him. He did, as Ken said, endorse (literally, at least) that drinking and dancing would be okay, and his cheering section to the left of the speaker downstairs supported him when he mentioned liquor and dancing.

Many were dismayed when their delusions that the music were uncorked at the point the worship leader snapped on the switch to turn on the instrumental music, to erase any suspicions that it was only the microphone making the music.

Several were analyzing the day's events by the evening, wandering that some should depart from the Madison church to other places, but they may have intended to mean that the pulpit leader and the worship leaders should be the ones leaving. For sure, under these circumstances those who stay will lose their vocal culture, as well as the rich heritage of the Churches of Christ.

We'll have to wait and see what the contribution and the attendance do this following Sunday.

The speaker leaves little option that either to leave himself along with his instrument leader or for an new exodus of members from the already shrinking church.

Turn out that Northside is not the growth pearl they were expecting but competition from the community churches, Hendersonville COC, and the local Baptist churches are too competitive for Northside to get any traction. Any growth in this direction is there thwarted. It is equally clear that the Madison campus itself is not getting any traction from the younger set, so the entire church is set to lose in this new brand of narrowness and intolerance.
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]As soon as time permits, I would like to comment on the Northside "daughter church," as well as whatever else "the pulpit minister" had to say on May 25 in defense of the leadership's [and we're no longer certain what comprises "this"] purpose- and culture-driven methodologies to "growing the church."

Speaking of attendance, the May 25, 2014 "worship guide" -- which now consists mainly of a calendar of "upcoming events" and announcements of activities [wedding, yard sale, etc.] -- indicated that: "Church attendance and giving records for Sunday, May 18 will be printed in the June 1 worship guide." Wonder why ... when that much space was already taken for the "records" instead?

It will be interesting to see the attendance stats in the June 1 "worship guide" as it should show counts for:

(1) May 18 -- as promised [above], the pre-instrumental Sunday
(2) May 25 -- the Sunday prerecorded instrumental was introduced

Perhaps, by design?

We'll be discussing the attendance trending as time permits.[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

May 29th, 2014, 7:46 pm #557

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]To my knowledge, it's been a "no comment" coming from the Madison leadership concerning the Northfield "daughter church." [Madison, being the "mother" church, reminds me of the concept that the Roman Catholic Church (headquartered in the Vatican City, Rome City, Italy) is calling for Protestants to come home to "the Mother Church."]

For one thing, there's already a Community Church in Hendersonville -- the one that severed its relationship or association with the church of Christ in Hendersonville several years ago. The "Community Church" SOF (sign out front) displayed "a body of Christ" for quite a while, but it's no longer that way. It is now a full-fledged "Community Church"!

And the NorthField Church competing with the established churches in that locality, including the Community Church in Hendersonville referenced above? By the way, the Northfield Church [already] does not carry the name "of Christ." [cf.http://northfieldchurch.net/ ]

A "Community Church" is a collection of "Christians" from any/various churches or religious groups in a locality or region -- dissatisfied and unhappy with the "worship programs" at their respective, original "home" church group and/or seeking for better and more exciting "religious expenriences." Trust me -- these are not "new converts" from the outside world (paganism, atheism or where the gospel of Christ is unheard of).

Is there going to be news of some sort about the Northfield "mission" efforts coming our way soon? Perhaps invite Tom Haddon of Northfield to do a progress report to Madison?[/color]
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

June 2nd, 2014, 8:44 pm #558

Original Message <font face="times" size="3">(June 11 2012 at 3:32 AM):</font>

<table width="725" border="0"><tr><td valign="top" width="98%">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="98%"><tr><td width="98%" bgcolor="#ffffff">

<table border="0" width="98%" align="center"><tr><td>
[color=#000000" size="5" face="times]Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision"[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Last month the elders announced Madison's new "vision" that approves the use of instrumental music. If someone wrote about this I didn't see it.

They said that using instruments is not a "salvation issue". Both services will use acappella music for now, but the first service will now get a praise team like the second service. And the second service will have more creative worship.

But the youth group gets to start using instrumental music. They said light acoustical instruments.

This seems like a huge change so I was surprised not to see it here yet.


[/color]</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table>

_________________________

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE:The information above has been submitted anonymously. Meanwhile, we have opted to substitute "Concerned" for "Anonymous" as the name. The message remains unedited.
-----------------------[/color]
[color=#000000" size="3" face="times]We've heard from the author who is a long-time member of Madison and would like to be identified as "MCC-Torn" [... and appropriately so].[/color]
=================================================



=================================================
[color=#0000FF" size="5" face="times]Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision": Cymbals, Psalteries, Harps ANATHEMA
By Ken Sublett[/color]



Heritage Church of Christ following the ACU pattern has imposed what he calls instrumental music.

http://www.piney.com/Heritage.Church.of ... Music.html

Jim Hackney led by the NACC at ACU gives his "proof texts" all of which are lies because he does not know the context.

http://www.piney.com/Jim.Hackney.Instru ... rship.html

The expression "having cymbals and psalteries and harps" is not a pattern for Christian worship: it is defined as the worship of Apollo (abaddon, Apollyon) and Dionysus first outed at Mount Sinai. If God turned them over to worship the starry host, and scholars agree that the Jews worshipped the starry host on their way back to Babylon, why do you suppose that latter day elders fulfil the warning of Paul against wolves and violently impose the same patternism: Who knows? both the Shadow and any Bible student knows.

http://www.piney.com/Having.Cymbals.and ... s.and.html
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]This is a brief summary of Jason's remarks on May 25, 2014 -- the day when instrumental music [although prerecorded] accompanied the singing of the final "praise song." (Jason had devoted the entire assembly period one Sunday to a social event -- a "Mothers Day" celebration -- by interviewing 4 mothers on stage. And another Sunday to a social event for the graduating high school seniors -- a program of activities on stage. What's going on here?????)

Ken has already covered Jason's lesson on what's commonly known as "The Prodigal Son" and the lesson's implications and misapplications. Yes, Jason emphasized "music and dancing" in that narrative [as we would find out about instrumental music at the end of the "worship service"].

Here's Jason's review of his accomplishments in the last 17 months as Phil Barnes' replacement. It's mainly in defense of the "incremental changes" [I think, he used that expression], which he feels have not been communicated well:

-- Casual dress: he wanted "seekers" to be comfortable with him;
-- Invitation to "come forward": not with guilt but with "conversation;
-- Video announcements: wasting 18 minutes is unnecessary;
-- Communion: [leavened] bread that's easy to make and tastes better;
-- Communion: although "chaotic" but it's about "fellowship";
-- Communion: [my impression] is lack of or no emphasis concerning the suffering & death of Christ;
-- Signs in the building: cosmetic [the "church mall" -- coffee, anyone?];
-- "Praise Team" singers on stage: they've got talent; it's celebration;
-- etc.

Incremental changes as the doctor ordered (Rick Warren and the Community Church Movement). Some of these are non-issues. But there are some serious doctrinal issues here.

Then, of course, the last song -- when instrumental music accompaniment [prerecorded, designed to be "less shocking"] at Madison officially began.[/color]
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Bill
Bill

June 2nd, 2014, 9:17 pm #559

Was there any instrumental music (prerecorded or live) at the service on June 1?
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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

June 3rd, 2014, 7:55 am #560

[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]I skipped the earlier part of the assembly period, consisting primarily of the "Praise Team" performing on stage (i.e., facing the congregants). There's nothing to gain by witnessing and participating in the "programmed worship" with the men and the 2 WOMEN "worship-leading" the seated congregants. (I think the "shepherds" as congregants are comfortable with being worship-led by the women. Hmm.)

The Lord's Supper was NOT chaotic (as when at times "brothers and sisters" literally come to a designated table and are encouraged to literally converse with each other while partaking of the "fellowship meal").

The leavened cornbread did "taste good" -- Jason said something about this the previous Sunday. (Maybe the regular-sized [3" X 3"], good-tasting "fellowship" cornbread will be served sometime in the future.)

Jason apologized for something he said the previous Sunday. Don't ask me what it was. (But I heard to the effect that some parent would have the child grounded for the same statement.)

The "sermon" was titled "Ascend," which will be in a series of lessons for the next several weeks. The "Sermon on the Mount" served as his "inaugural" message. He spent most of his time reading portions from Matthew chapters 5, 6 and 7. (That's good -- much better than preaching Rick Warren's gospel.) We'll see about the "Ascend" lessons coming up. "The Hills" comes to mind, and he may be using as illustrations: The Woodland Hills "Family of God" Church ... The Hills Church of Christ (formerly "Richland Hills") ... The Oak Hills Church [formerly "of Christ"]; etc.

It was unusual that there was an "invitation song": "Just As I Am."

No, there was no instrumental music during the "invitation" or the last song.

As promised, the "worship guide" showed the attendance records for:

May 18, 2014 ...... 1396 (preceding the "instrumental music")
May 25, 2014 ...... 1358 (during the recorded instrumental music)
June 1, 2014 ...... ___ (the week after instrumental)

Attendance and giving records for Sunday, June 1 should be printed in the June 8 worship guide.

The atmosphere overall was different ... somewhat subdued. ("What happened ... what did we say and do last Sunday?")[/color]
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