Madison's New (Instrumental) 'Vision'

Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

June 26th, 2012, 3:09 pm #31

The top page at concerned members is down just now. However you can go to the other main threads:

Madison
http://www.network54.com/Forum/150389/

Other Church inputs
http://www.network54.com/Forum/187120/#list

Richland Hills
http://www.network54.com/Forum/177121/




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Racnor
Racnor

June 26th, 2012, 3:44 pm #32

Tom, I was having the same problem with the extreme load time on this site. I downloaded Google Chrome and it will load the site with no problems. However, I think it is a Network54 problem. I am sure Donnie can explain what is going on.
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June 26th, 2012, 9:10 pm #33

Donnie, first, I am not sure if it is a problem on my end or with the website, but for the past month, I have had extreme difficulty getting the site to load on my computer and it will not load at all anymore on my IPad or IPhone. I am not sure if anyone else is having this problem. Just thought I would let you know.

Mainly, I can tell you that the time lapse at Oak Hills between the elder announcement on their not being any prohibition on instruments in worship until the adoption of them in the worship service was about 4 years. Let me also say again that Max Lucado is a friend of mine, he has been in my house and I have been in his. He wrote the letter of recommendation for my son to get into ACU. That being said, I remember when this was all starting that Max stated that he had found that a soft harp or soft piano really helped encourage people to respond to the Gospel. That was what was envisioned when the topic was discussed at Oak Hills. Since that time, those things have progressed into a full rock band at all but one service which remains non-instrumental. If Madison follows the same course, the countdown has begun.
Tom, since I read primarily the Madison page here, I don't log onto www.ConcernedMembers.com, because it does take forever to load. I log onto http://www.network54.com/Forum/150389/, the Madison page. That takes only a few seconds to load.

The "time lapse" bit with implementing non-scriptural policies into congregations is the usual ploy of change agents. They are not about to come in with guns a-blazin' and implement instruments right off, for example, unless they want a full-scale war. The agents have to "soften up" the congregation and brainwash them, which takes lots of time. The change agents first introduce an a cappella praise team, which simulates the denominational choir. The congregation is led to believe that all is well, because there are (as yet) no instruments, but it's still a subtle move toward denominationalism. After a few years of that, the "soft piano and harp" come next to get the congregants into a "more worshipful mood." Perhaps the agents justify that with the philosophy of, "Oh, the occasional use of an instrument in a service here and there is not sinful; it's just being a bit 'different'." Once the congregation gets used to the "occasional" use of an instrument or two, the frequency and number of instruments gradually increase. The agents introduce instruments into one service on one Sunday a month, then two services, and so forth until eventually ALL services are polluted with instruments. All along, the congregation is gradually led to believe the lie that instruments are "not a salvation issue." Of course, the ultimate goal is to have a raucous rock band in ALL services with crashing drums and screecing guitars. The postmodern mindset considers such an abominable cacophony as "necessary" for worship today. How sad it all is.
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Joined: January 28th, 2012, 10:19 pm

June 27th, 2012, 8:04 pm #34

I too have witnessed the step by step change management program that many progressives follow. I note comments from the pulpit such as "your aunt Maude may have read the Bible every day but didn't know a thing about interpretation and detailed analysis of what it meant" This usually means that we now know more than previous generations and that some substantial "changes need to be made". Another bit of this same softening up routine is the comment that some of us think we "have all the answers". This is usually directed at those who have been taught and trained well over a period of years and see through the camouflage of post modern wisdom, which is in fact swill. This is usually made in connection with not teaching something the Lord plainly taught or not following a Bible based strategy on an issue.

Comments Welcome

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Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:32 pm

June 28th, 2012, 3:23 am #35

Original Message <font face="times" size="3">(June 11 2012 at 3:32 AM):</font>

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[color=#000000" size="5" face="times]Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision"[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Last month the elders announced Madison's new "vision" that approves the use of instrumental music. If someone wrote about this I didn't see it.

They said that using instruments is not a "salvation issue". Both services will use acappella music for now, but the first service will now get a praise team like the second service. And the second service will have more creative worship.

But the youth group gets to start using instrumental music. They said light acoustical instruments.

This seems like a huge change so I was surprised not to see it here yet.


[/color]</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table>

_________________________

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE:The information above has been submitted anonymously. Meanwhile, we have opted to substitute "Concerned" for "Anonymous" as the name. The message remains unedited.
-----------------------[/color]
[color=#000000" size="3" face="times]We've heard from the author who is a long-time member of Madison and would like to be identified as "MCC-Torn" [... and appropriately so].[/color]
=================================================



=================================================
[color=#0000FF" size="5" face="times]Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision": Cymbals, Psalteries, Harps ANATHEMA
By Ken Sublett[/color]



Heritage Church of Christ following the ACU pattern has imposed what he calls instrumental music.

http://www.piney.com/Heritage.Church.of ... Music.html

Jim Hackney led by the NACC at ACU gives his "proof texts" all of which are lies because he does not know the context.

http://www.piney.com/Jim.Hackney.Instru ... rship.html

The expression "having cymbals and psalteries and harps" is not a pattern for Christian worship: it is defined as the worship of Apollo (abaddon, Apollyon) and Dionysus first outed at Mount Sinai. If God turned them over to worship the starry host, and scholars agree that the Jews worshipped the starry host on their way back to Babylon, why do you suppose that latter day elders fulfil the warning of Paul against wolves and violently impose the same patternism: Who knows? both the Shadow and any Bible student knows.

http://www.piney.com/Having.Cymbals.and ... s.and.html
Madison has their "worship services" posted on a video site: I noticed that the younger kids are getting a huge back up of instrumental noise which makes them want to rock and roll.

1Thessalonians 4:11 And that ye study to be quiet,
and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;


From what I saw they were intentionally trying to drive the children into a state of excitement which is the laded burden: creating spiritual anxiety through religious rituals.

1Timothy 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
1Timothy 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
1Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved,
and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Timothy 2:5 For there is one God,
and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


When they begin to ADD you know that they are lying because it is only a matter of time before they have made long prayers (hymns) to steal your property and your souls.

This gives a lie to the claim that music and musicians can "lead you into the presence of God."

When they are forced to let the youth be the leaders and demand "music" it is because they are totally addicted and cannot, as Jesus pleaded, "Rest with me for one hour."

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Joined: June 28th, 2012, 11:38 am

June 28th, 2012, 12:49 pm #36

[color=#0000FF" size="3.5" face="times]Thanks from ConcernedMembers for the information. (Due to circumstances, I'd been away from the Madison assemblies for most of the time in the last several months. But I was there on 6/10/12, this past Sunday. You submitted your information on 6/11/12 Monday following. Then, I realized that "creative worship" has just begun in the contemporary period. How so? Well, here's the "gradualism" factor at work when a major change is being implemented. There was a contemporary-charismatic "Christian" music piece titled "So Excited" that was performed on stage by a finger-snapping, microphone-holding female lead singer and the boys. Oh, yeah, the last song in the "worship" guide, perhaps considered as outside or after the "worship services.").

Well, "So Excited" as performed was "creative worship," alright!!! I did not expect that at all. But that wasn't the first time performances on stage of that nature were that well-executed. In fact, during Madison's "Easter Sunday Worship Services," there were quite a few of these exciting activities performed on stage.

Then and now!!! Then, there was the implementation of the "Praise Team" strategy in 2001 -- one primary reason that the congregation divided, and hundreds of members left. Assembly became divided between "traditional" (first) and "contemporary" (second). The "Praise Team" became a permanent feature, of course, with the contemporary division. The "traditional" group has been Praise Team-free -- perhaps by design until senior saints have died off. Now, a decade later, the Praise Team-free environment is no more. (CAUTION: the Praise Team system is not the only issue.)

Let's not forget the division in the eldership alone at the time. Several of them left their home congregation or resigned. There have been elders from those that remained who are no longer elders now. Elders select additional elders. (Perhaps, many members have lost track of all current "shepherds." We don't hear of "deacons" anymore. The church's website seems to be "under construction" constantly [maybe not], and no information about the "office of an elder" can be found. Or, do I simply not know where to find the list of the office holders?)

Now, the implementation of instrumental music is about to happen.

No doubt that the survey or solicitation of suggestions and "ideas" was geared towards this pre-determined goal -- implementation of the instrumental music system in "worship." It is characteristic of surverys such as this one that with Only one member suggesting IM, that should be enough support or proof to incorporate musical idolatry in the assembly.

The famed Keith Lancaster (from Acappella.org) as "Worship Leader" to replace Nick Boone was fired. Brent Whitworth (cf. thread: "Brent Whitworth, Where Are You Now?") replaced Keith. Then, George Pendergrass (from Acappella.org) was employed as "Worship Leader" early this year, replacing Brent. But I wonder where George has been in the last few weeks?

Once, the brotherhood knows about what Madison is doing to achieve its goal of increased membership by whatever means, I wonder if certain churches or elders of other congregations will be inquiring or writing to Madison's leaders about this "endeavor." I know, I know about congregational autonomy. But this is not an "autonomy" issue. This is a New Testament church issue!!![/color]
Donnie, a lot has happened that you may have not seen. Around new year's they announced that Brent had been let go because the elders had decided to go in a different direction. Maybe he didn't like the instrumental path but that's just me speculating. Or maybe they just wanted somebody famous like Keith again. Right after that, they announced that George was the interim worship leader. Then after about 2 or 3 months they made another announcement that George's time as interim leader was over. Then it was just a few weeks later that the new instrumental "vision" came down.

Anyone who is interested can see the vision yourself. They posted the same video that was shown in church to the web site. At madisoncofc.org click on the Resources tab and then launch media player. Look for Vision presentation 4G. You can choose audio or video. If you like Apple, choose video because it could double as an ipad commercial.
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June 28th, 2012, 4:50 pm #37

Since Madison has opted to go the unscriptural, denominational route with instruments, I wonder how long it will be before Madison embraces other denominational trends, like prefabricated, scripted prayers, for example. The Catholics and various Protestant denominations have printed "prayer books" with scripted prayers for just about every conceivable occasion known to man. Such "prayers" often contain lofty, flowery language designed to gratify the senses; the idea is that whatever sounds really good and tickles the ears will please God. All people have to do is whip out the book and look up the "appropriate prayer." Some folks have such prayers memorized and can rattle them off without really paying much attention to what they're saying. The same scripted "prayers" are read or memorized for the same respective occasions year in and year out. That's known as "vain repetition," and it's not too far from the Catholics' "penance" of saying so many "Hail Marys" and "Our Fathers" over and over again. Scripted prayers either said over and over in succession or said for the same occasion(s) year after year constitute "vain repetitions."

"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him" (Matt 6:7-8 KJV).

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Joined: January 2nd, 2005, 6:45 am

August 21st, 2012, 7:25 am #38

Original Message <font face="times" size="3">(June 11 2012 at 3:32 AM):</font>

<table width="725" border="0"><tr><td valign="top" width="98%">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="98%"><tr><td width="98%" bgcolor="#ffffff">

<table border="0" width="98%" align="center"><tr><td>
[color=#000000" size="5" face="times]Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision"[/color]
[color=#0000FF" size="4" face="times]Last month the elders announced Madison's new "vision" that approves the use of instrumental music. If someone wrote about this I didn't see it.

They said that using instruments is not a "salvation issue". Both services will use acappella music for now, but the first service will now get a praise team like the second service. And the second service will have more creative worship.

But the youth group gets to start using instrumental music. They said light acoustical instruments.

This seems like a huge change so I was surprised not to see it here yet.


[/color]</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table>

_________________________

[color=#0000FF" size="3" face="times]NOTE:The information above has been submitted anonymously. Meanwhile, we have opted to substitute "Concerned" for "Anonymous" as the name. The message remains unedited.
-----------------------[/color]
[color=#000000" size="3" face="times]We've heard from the author who is a long-time member of Madison and would like to be identified as "MCC-Torn" [... and appropriately so].[/color]
=================================================



=================================================
[color=#0000FF" size="5" face="times]Madison's New (Instrumental) "Vision": Cymbals, Psalteries, Harps ANATHEMA
By Ken Sublett[/color]



Heritage Church of Christ following the ACU pattern has imposed what he calls instrumental music.

http://www.piney.com/Heritage.Church.of ... Music.html

Jim Hackney led by the NACC at ACU gives his "proof texts" all of which are lies because he does not know the context.

http://www.piney.com/Jim.Hackney.Instru ... rship.html

The expression "having cymbals and psalteries and harps" is not a pattern for Christian worship: it is defined as the worship of Apollo (abaddon, Apollyon) and Dionysus first outed at Mount Sinai. If God turned them over to worship the starry host, and scholars agree that the Jews worshipped the starry host on their way back to Babylon, why do you suppose that latter day elders fulfil the warning of Paul against wolves and violently impose the same patternism: Who knows? both the Shadow and any Bible student knows.

http://www.piney.com/Having.Cymbals.and ... s.and.html
MCC-Torn posted on: June 28 2012, 8:49 AM

Donnie, a lot has happened that you may have not seen. Around new year's they announced that Brent had been let go because the elders had decided to go in a different direction. Maybe he didn't like the instrumental path but that's just me speculating. Or maybe they just wanted somebody famous like Keith again. Right after that, they announced that George was the interim worship leader. Then after about 2 or 3 months they made another announcement that George's time as interim leader was over. Then it was just a few weeks later that the new instrumental "vision" came down.

Yes, I missed a lot of the happenings and announcements in the early months of this year. I tried to figure out what really happened to Brent. I gather that Phil Barnes was influential in getting Brent employed by the elders as Brent was closely associated with one of Phil's sons in the music business. Do you recall when Brent and his musical band performed that Sunday afternoon [no, it wasn't a gospel tent meeting] in celebration of the "Vision 2000 Debt-Free" success story? Do you think the leadership wasn't ready at the time to start using Brent's IM abilities?

I believe Keith Lancaster was dismissed because he was controversial -- he introduced the very controversial (at the time) Baptist CHOIR in the church, a.k.a. the "Praise Team." Keith [still] owns the Acappella Ministries organization.

I was very certain that George Pendergrass would be here to stay -- he also was[?] associated with Keith's Acappella Ministries. But his employment with a company in downtown Nashville was considered a "conflict of interest" while he was Madison's "worship leader." [Not sure which employment came first.]

So, the instrumental vision has already begun in the Kidz Kingdom.

We need to refresh our memory -- have we heard of the "Boiling the Frog" story? It is about gradualism at work!!!

Yes, the "traditional" group now has a "Praise Team." The rah-rah-rah contemporary praise music is no longer that uncommon in the early assembly. Besides waiting on the seniors to "die off," that group is also under siege.

Just this past Sunday in the "contemporary" group, a video clip during the Lord's Supper was shown with words ("He was despised ... bruised ...") with instrumental music in the background.

Yes, gradualism at work. Unlike the turmoil over a decade ago, there will be no more announcements as: "Get over it; get used to it; we must move on [and go forward with our 'instrumental vision']."

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Gossip Is Sin
Gossip Is Sin

August 22nd, 2012, 3:45 pm #39

This is gossip, which is sin.
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August 23rd, 2012, 12:21 pm #40

If anyone exposes the unscriptural practices and doctrines of the change agents, they howl that doing so is "gossip and sin." But the change agents conveniently dismiss Romans 16:17:

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them" (KJV).

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